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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Jul 28, 2013, 10:26 AM   #91
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Elysian
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Originally Posted by MaxSt View Post
Ok, I get it, HAL. You think Apple stuff is so perfect, it can't be improved, so Microsoft shouldn't even try to innovate, and them trying to predict "what consumers may theoretically want in the future" is the worst. They should just follows Apple footsteps, it's the only road to success. Right?
All of his posts read like Razeus of 2-3 years ago. It's bizarre. I'm not even going to bother, it's all just factless ranting.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 12:11 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
All of his posts read like Razeus of 2-3 years ago. It's bizarre. I'm not even going to bother, it's all just factless ranting.
Nothing I'm saying is controversial. It's basically market dynamics and this entire topic is SUBJECTIVE if you haven't been able to figure something that simple out yet. You were the one who said HTML5 sucked and Flash was better, and that was just in mid-2011. I'm sorry, but my predictive powers may not be 100%, but they sure as f**k better than yours.

Remember what you said about Windows 8 tablets? Here's what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Honestly, it looks awesome. Metro makes all kinds of sense for normal usage. I'm excited, quite a bit. Windows 8 looks to be a must buy.
Was it a good replacement for your Xoom, the other spectacularly selling tablet? This is what I'm saying. It may be "normal usage" for desktop use but no one cares about that in the mobile space.

I can't say I feel bad by injecting a little historical reality and attempting to extrapolate into the future. Sorry if this gets in the way of people's laser-like focus of pure unadulterated Apple hate around here. Don't confuse discussions of Microsoft's poor sales and hopeless strategy to date as fanboyism towards Apple either. I've attempted to contain comments to the idea of consumer decision making. I'm not even discussing whether or not the market buyers "are smart" either, just pointing out the market arrived at this situation and moving forward.

Sorry if I don't somehow reinforce your already strong dislike for Apple. That's just not part of my job description.

It's simple. Large numbers of people, the vast majority, actually, just are not interested in buying Windows products when offered a choice. It's as clear as day.
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Last edited by HAL10000 : Jul 28, 2013 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Typoes galore
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 01:30 PM   #93
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they are a lot more people that use ipads wih a windows desktop than a mac desktop

as soon as they get tablets that run the same full windows os and sync up
and have the same or better resolution and battery life and cheaper then most will drop apple

whats new in ipads other than a little more speed and resolution

whats next for the next new ipad " This one is Red " ?
I give the ipad less than two years till it goes back to just the apple die hards like desktops

Last edited by bill dennison : Jul 28, 2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 02:17 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by HAL10000 View Post
Fine line, that is true.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that consumers who ignored the Zune and it's interface will not be flocking to it no matter how many times Microsoft beats you over the head with it.
If you read the reviews, or listen to the users, the Zune didn't fail to sell because of lack of features or a bad interface or other things like that. It was Microsoft and their positioning and relationships/partnerships.

I know you don't spend any time in WP8 forums, but one of the most common complaints is the lack of continued support for the Zune desktop app. It was the simplest and most elegant way of syncing between devices. The new app is getting there but it is an example of what the Zune team did brilliantly, and what fell by the wayside.

Mock a product for the reasons it failed, but don't lump it all together and make false insinuations.

Quote:
It's like they can't learn from it. The interface failed to take hold in the tablet and phone space so they force it upon desktop users.
As mentioned before, the interface was the main reason that WP came about as it did. It was useful and provided plenty of information. If you compare iOS and WP8 side by side, it's a no brainer. WP8 is faster, smoother and provides far more information in a quick glance than iOS ever could. There is one glaring issue, a notification center. However, I have rarely experienced a requirement because of the live updates.

As I said, mock something for it's actual failings but please don't falsely accuse it of being terrible for made-up reasons.

Quote:
Love how you dropped the whole "Flash" part. Quite indicative.
Flash support being dropped on Android was a bad idea, in my opinion, but it was related to Adobe themselves not continuing development and advances there in the mobile space.

Quote:
Maybe people will clamour for a Windows tablet to get "the full Web experience" since Windows will allow Flash.
Windows does allow flash on many sites, more so with the 8.1 updates.

There is a massive difference between a consumption device with limited applicability, and a fully featured device that doesn't lack for ports and does everything you can do in the office.

Both Android and iOS bridge the gap with excellent applications to provide just that kind of functionality, but neither do so via the native operating system. Windows 8 does, and offers you an environment without compromise.

Android wins the price battle and will soon be marketshare leader the world over. iOS has it's legion of fans. Microsoft has the only OS that covers the gamut of users.

You should know the chatter back in 2007/2008, Android was mocked. It took just a few years for it to become THE dominant player in the market. The arguments evolved and changed on the pro-iOS side. My comments about how terrible an operating system it is, as well as how awful Apple are at actually innovating remain the same as they were back when I first got an iPhone, 5 years ago, and remained the same when I finally got rid of iOS as my primary device at the end of last year.

Apple couldn't fix BASIC functionality issues in over 5 years of their product being on the market, and has resorted over the past few years of waging a war against the jailbreak marketplace while simultaneously stealing all their ideas and implementing it in their "new" and "improved" OS.

At least Microsoft is taking a different tact and building something mostly from scratch and evolving it based on feedback.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 02:25 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
they are a lot more people that use ipads wih a windows desktop than a mac desktop

as soon as they get tablets that run the same full windows os and sync up
and have the same or better resolution and battery life and cheaper then most will drop apple

whats new in ipads other than a little more speed and resolution

whats next for the next new ipad " This one is Red " ?
I give the ipad less than two years till it goes back to just the apple die hards like desktops
What's new with the next Surface product? Something with more than four hours of battery life? The market has already been offered a NUMBER of "full windows os" tablets for a while now. From Acer and Asus, from stalwarts like Dell, right on to Microsoft itself. Until that time, more and more people are learning you don't need Windows (also learning they can live without people like Apple, as well). It's not like people don't have the ability to buy a Windows-based tablet now or ever found themselves unable to buy a Windows phone over the last decade in the case of phones.

People are choosing not to buy them and it's highly unlikely h/w will save this. And it's going to be Android that screws Microsoft more than Apple. Apple has it's own hardware and software they produce and sell themselves. Google gives Android for free to any who will use it.

It's interesting how no one is looking towards anyone else but Apple when it comes to innovation. The whole argument about how Apple just isn't innovating is interesting considering they don't say the same thing about Samsung (which is a glorified cloner), nor of Hewlett Packard or Dell (puppy mill for plastic PCs), not of Blackberry or RIM which is DOA. I can go on. Apple, especially under Steve Jobs, was a definitely the leader in an industry of staid uninspiring corporate drones and I think it showed. Apple just shows how sucky the CEOs and management of other companies are.

Apple was rarely the first to market. The iPod wasn't the first portable MP3 player. Just the first that didn't suck. The iPad really wasn't the first tablet nor was the iPhone the first smartphone. Apple just does what the rest of the industry can't seem to do, which is make a product that people actually like to use. It's been like that almost throughout their history. Apple wasn't even the first personal computer.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
If you read the reviews, or listen to the users, the Zune didn't fail to sell because of lack of features or a bad interface or other things like that. It was Microsoft and their positioning and relationships/partnerships.
It goes well beyond that. The Zune itself was Microsoft screwing over it's PlayForSure partners but hard to say that had any true impact on market sales.

The major problems for the Zune boiled down to "too little, too late." From the consumer point-of-view, that's the core the Zune faced. By the time Microsoft got something to market, people just didn't care about how it looked or any publicized advantages it may have been able to claim. Consumers obviously valued something more than what Microsoft was offering.

Microsoft didn't learn a thing which is why I believe their determination to shove Metro down people's throats was an exercise in cost recovery.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
There is a massive difference between a consumption device with limited applicability, and a fully featured device that doesn't lack for ports and does everything you can do in the office.
People who are going to be using software that requires Windows and a desktop will still use a desktop for those activities. Think a Windows 8 tablet would be a great device to use with Solidworks? No, and that's why people who need desktops for work will continue to buy workstations to get around any "limited applicability".

Most people basically want two things from the computers from what I've seen: mail and multimedia (usually porn). You don't need a Windows 8 box to do those anymore. Even a smartphone will handle both of those better than a desktop. It's like telling Grandma she should buy an ATI HD9875125 because she might want to play Call of Duty 8 when all she does is watch videos of cats on YouTube and plays Bejewelled.

Employers will also not be buying hybrid tablet/desktops if it means extra expense (which they natural will); I'm not seeing the manufacturing paradigm shift to the point where mobile production will be cheaper than full-sized desktop production anytime in the near future.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Windows 8 does, and offers you an environment without compromise.
Just larger expense, low battery life and a bloated OS that sucks up huge amounts of your internal storage space. Aside from geeks on tech boards, seems the market is just shrugging it's shoulders and buying something else.

Geeks are not mass market and never will be. This is why they can say the iPad is doomed because it doesn't have Flash or a USB connector or an SD slot. Seems people are so insular on these boards they cannot see the broader world around them and assume everyone is somehow a poweruser with the same ideas and desires for computing.
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Last edited by HAL10000 : Jul 28, 2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 07:05 PM   #96
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Nothing I'm saying is controversial. It's basically market dynamics and this entire topic is SUBJECTIVE if you haven't been able to figure something that simple out yet. You were the one who said HTML5 sucked and Flash was better, and that was just in mid-2011. I'm sorry, but my predictive powers may not be 100%, but they sure as f**k better than yours.
Now you're just being dishonest. I never said that HTML5 wouldn't overtake Flash, I specifically said it wasn't ready yet. Guess what? 2 years later, that still rings true, and HTML5 is no closer to taking over for Flash than it was in 2011. Flash is still the preferred video plugin the entire web over. HTML5 is relegated to Google Labs beta testing. It still can't handle everything Flash can optimally, especially in the mobile space. It's STILL got a long ways to go before it takes over Flash. HTML5 isn't even finalized FFS.

Quote:
Remember what you said about Windows 8 tablets? Here's what you said:



Was it a good replacement for your Xoom, the other spectacularly selling tablet? This is what I'm saying. It may be "normal usage" for desktop use but no one cares about that in the mobile space.
I do remember what I said, and I have Windows 8 on my touchscreen laptop as well as on my non-touch desktop. It's great.

Quote:
I can't say I feel bad by injecting a little historical reality and attempting to extrapolate into the future. Sorry if this gets in the way of people's laser-like focus of pure unadulterated Apple hate around here.
You're countering Apple hate with unadulterated Apple love.

Quote:
It's simple. Large numbers of people, the vast majority, actually, just are not interested in buying Windows products when offered a choice. It's as clear as day.
If it were that simple then Linux and OSX wouldn't have such small shares of the market. The tablet market used to belong entirely to Apple, but now, when given the choice, people are buying Android tablets hand over fist. You feel free to toss that bunk Chinese 1.6 tablet crap around again now, k? Markets change. Windows 8 tablets (RT or otherwise) are still very new. Windows 7 was never tablet optimized, so I'm not really sure why you would expect someone to buy that. I still own an Android tablet, but if the right x86 based tablet with the right power consumption and processing power came along I'd easily jump to Windows 8. I still have no interest whatsoever in Apple products.
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Last edited by Elysian : Jul 28, 2013 at 07:13 PM.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 09:03 PM   #97
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Now you're just being dishonest. I never said that HTML5 wouldn't overtake Flash, I specifically said it wasn't ready yet. Guess what? 2 years later, that still rings true, and HTML5 is no closer to taking over for Flash than it was in 2011. Flash is still the preferred video plugin the entire web over. HTML5 is relegated to Google Labs beta testing. It still can't handle everything Flash can optimally, especially in the mobile space. It's STILL got a long ways to go before it takes over Flash.
You referred to HTML5 as "garbage" when compared to Flash:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Flash isn't 'gone' at all, development is still ongoing on the PC. Stupid comment is stupid.

Also, HTML5 isn't superior to sh*t yet, it's garbage still. HTML5 has a long way to go before it's viable on mobile platforms.
Really? Was pretty goddamn viable on iPad well before it was released years ago... but I'll know you'll try to dress it up as "that was then, this is now." It showed a glaringly emotional bias to so ensure that a little thing like the world around you was blocked out. It's only a tiny minority that sees Flash as being somehow important anymore.

Flash usage was on the decline since web users have readily moved on from IE5; Adobe only clung to it because they overpaid when acquiring that property. Flash usage is now below the 20% mark and wouldn't be shocked if most of that are on old dead Geocities pages.

Enough about Flash. It certainly didn't impact iPad sales like fandroids said it would. Remember, people said consumers would wait for Android tablets or, even funnier still, the Playbook. Flash was so very important to people's everyday lives that the world would end without it. That Jobs was a total idiot for not allowing Flash.

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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
You're countering Apple hate with unadulterated Apple love.
And I expressed my Apple love how in this thread? Because I'm questioning widely held beliefs that Android fans cling to? Where are the North American tablet sales? You can point to the EU (but you end up with conflicting stories there) and I've pointed out all the usual crap you find in the Chinese market but in North America, it's basically, the iPad and the Kindle. I have never seen anyone else, other than Pax, own an Android tablet. None. I know a number of people who have Android phones... but never any tablets.

The North American Android tablet is mythical.

Like a unicorn.

We keep hearing that Android tablet sales are up 140% or 250% or whatever ... but yet you never see them around. Are these tablet makers doing what Atari did to E.T. cartridges in 1983? Dumping them in the desert?

I have never seen an Android tablet (except for the Chinese one Pax bought) outside of demo units at Staples or Future Shop. When I went to Iqaluit in 2011, nearly half had an iPad (or iPod Touch, and two students bought themselves a Touch while they were there that week). And these people, by and large, are P-O-O-R. But one would think, of all places in Canada, it would be a natural market for low cost devices. (Nunavut is an interesting case in that they figured out that by getting onto NAC WiFi and using iMessage they can communicate across the territory for free and "Blackberries" weren't available up there; I thought BB would be popular.)

Simply put: Apple had enough time to become entrenched. They showed that one didn't need Flash or the bloatware that is something like Windows. Or even OSX, which they pared down and called iOS. It must drive fandroids insane knowing that consumers en masse didn't bawk at the lack of USB and MicroSD card slots. "Don't these people realize they will need them?" Clearly, they didn't need it and the fandroids were clearly wrong.

What Apple did was put together a solid device that does the vast majority of what people want to do with a device at an incredibly price point. Apple may say it's magic, but it's really not. Apple was just fortunate to have decent forward-thinking management and to be at the right place at the right time with the right partners. The runaway success of the iPhone didn't hurt either. It certainly didn't hurt Apple when it's competitors reacted by throwing on features from checklists of what they thought consumers would find important. All the geeks agreed, but strangely, the consumer thought otherwise and iPad sales continued to roll on. Aside from poor decisions being made by Apple itself, as well as the overall crap economy, Apple's next largest threat is a competitor that gets it's act together and starts to make more than "me too" decisions. Not sure that is likely either. My bet is serious economic turmoil leading to global instability, even war. But enough doom and gloom.

I'm bowing out of this thread because I'm repeating the same simple observations over and over.

I, among others, worry that Apple will slowly crumble under the weight of idiotic MBAs being parachuted into decision making positions. That has to be left to be seen, as well as factoring the current dismal state of the real economy. Each time I hear Tim Cook standing up saying finances are fine I immediately flash back to Skilling '99. I have also witnessed firsthand how owner-management is critical and that once the big guys name is no longer on the CEO door, just how quickly a corporation can degenerate to the point it could be used as a backdrop for the next series of The Office. It's not exactly a coincidence that Apple was in the sh**ter when Jobs wasn't around. I do think having the owner/founder still present is a huge factor in continued success because their opinion instills more respect than the next faceless suit being parachuted into the position who is simply hired help and only there to collect a large paycheque (and get a huge bonus for failing). For an example of that in action, just take a gander over at HP.

This is why Microsoft's problem really isn't a hardware one.

(I shouldn't knock "idiotic" MBAs because everyone is pressuring me to do mine. My current boss in particular.)
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 09:08 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by HAL10000 View Post
You referred to HTML5 as "garbage" when compared to Flash:



Really? Was pretty goddamn viable on iPad well before it was released years ago... but I'll know you'll try to dress it up as "that was then, this is now." It showed a glaringly emotional bias to so ensure that a little thing like the world around you was blocked out. It's only a tiny minority that sees Flash as being somehow important anymore.

Flash usage was on the decline since web users have readily moved on from IE5; Adobe only clung to it because they overpaid when acquiring that property. Flash usage is now below the 20% mark and wouldn't be shocked if most of that are on old dead Geocities pages.

Enough about Flash. It certainly didn't impact iPad sales like fandroids said it would. Remember, people said consumers would wait for Android tablets or, even funnier still, the Playbook. Flash was so very important to people's everyday lives that the world would end without it. That Jobs was a total idiot for not allowing Flash.



And I expressed my Apple love how in this thread? Because I'm questioning widely held beliefs that Android fans cling to? Where are the North American tablet sales? You can point to the EU (but you end up with conflicting stories there) and I've pointed out all the usual crap you find in the Chinese market but in North America, it's basically, the iPad and the Kindle. I have never seen anyone else, other than Pax, own an Android tablet. None. I know a number of people who have Android phones... but never any tablets.

The North American Android tablet is mythical.

Like a unicorn.

We keep hearing that Android tablet sales are up 140% or 250% or whatever ... but yet you never see them around. Are these tablet makers doing what Atari did to E.T. cartridges in 1983? Dumping them in the desert?

I have never seen an Android tablet (except for the Chinese one Pax bought) outside of demo units at Staples or Future Shop. When I went to Iqaluit in 2011, nearly half had an iPad (or iPod Touch, and two students bought themselves a Touch while they were there that week). And these people, by and large, are P-O-O-R. But one would think, of all places in Canada, it would be a natural market for low cost devices.

Simply put: Apple had enough time to become entrenched. They showed that one didn't need Flash or the bloatware that is something like Windows. Or even OSX, which they pared down and called iOS. It must drive fandroids insane knowing that consumers en masse didn't bawk at the lack of USB and MicroSD card slots. "Don't these people realize they will need them?" Clearly, they didn't need it and the fandroids were clearly wrong.

What Apple did was put together a solid device that does the vast majority of what people want to do with a device at an incredibly price point. Apple may say it's magic, but it's really not. Apple just fortunate to have decent forward-thinking management and to be at the right place at the right time with the right partners. The runaway success of the iPhone didn't hurt either. It certainly didn't hurt Apple when it's competitors reacted by throwing on features from checklists of what they thought consumers would find important. All the geeks agreed, but strangely, the consumer thought otherwise and iPad sales continued to roll on.

I'm bowing out of this thread because I'm repeating the same simple observations over and over.

I, among others, worry that Apple will slowly crumble under the weight of idiotic MBAs being parachuted into decision making positions. That has to be left to be seen, as well as factoring the current dismal state of the real economy. Each time I hear Tim Cook standing up saying finances are fine I immediately flash back to Skilling '99. I have also witnessed firsthand how critical owner-management is critical and that once the big guys name is no longer on the CEO door, just how quickly a corporation can degenerate to the point it could be used as a backdrop for the next series of The Office. It's not exactly a coincidence that Apple was in the sh**ter when Jobs wasn't around. I do think having the owner/founder still present is a huge factor in continued success because their opinion instills more respect than the next faceless suit being parachuted into the position who is simply hired help and only there to collect a large paycheque (and get a huge bonus for failing). For an example of that in action, just take a gander over at HP.

This is why Microsoft's problem really isn't a hardware one.

(I shouldn't knock "idiotic" MBAs because everyone is pressuring me to do mine. My current boss in particular.)
My point about HTML5 being garbage was specifically performance related, especially when people try to do Flash type things with HTML5. Pretty sure I explained that back then. Facebook still uses Flash extensively for embedded videos, as do most video sites. You'll know HTML5 has arrived when porn sites start using it

Since you went back to Android tablets again, this is relevant:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-h...9/SS-2-286050/

Quote:
At the launch of Asustek Computer Inc. ’s newest product on Wednesday, there was only a fleeting glimpse of company Chairman Jonney Shih.

Mr. Shih stood up and waved from the audience of the Google Inc. press conference before a Google executive on stage launched into a demonstration of the new Nexus 7’s features.

Taking a back seat has been something that Asus has had to accept in its tablet development partnership with Google. But the payoff has been big, helping to buoy the Taiwanese personal computer maker at a time when global demand for PCs is plunging.

Asus began partnering with Google last year with the launch of the first-generation Nexus 7, and it has so far been a huge boon for the PC maker. Brisk sales of the Nexus 7 helped boost Asus’s tablet sales ahead of Amazon.com ’s this year, putting Asus just behind Apple Inc. and Samsung Electronics Co.

The launch of the new Nexus 7 makes Asus the only company besides Samsung to partner with Google on more than one Nexus device.

Although Asus and Google aren’t giving sales figures for the first Nexus 7, Asus’s total tablet shipments – including the Nexus 7 as well as other Asus tablets — have more than quadrupled following the Nexus 7’s launch. Asus shipped 2.7 million tablets in the first quarter compared to 0.6 million a year earlier, according to market researcher IDC.

The shipment boost from the Nexus 7 means Asus gains economies of scale and can get better deals on components for its own tablets, analysts say.

The partnership has helped Asus in other ways, too.

“Asus used to have this image in the U.S. of being a netbook brand, which is low-end notebooks,” said Tracy Tsai, a technology analyst for research firm Gartner. “The Nexus 7 has helped its image in the U.S., because consumers had a chance to review the brand and recognize Asus’s capability for building a very nice product – not only tablets, but notebooks, too.”

The new version of the Nexus 7 comes with features like virtual surround sound and a faster processor, and is part of Google’s efforts to boost Android’s market share lead over the iPad. The tablet will go on sale on July 30 at Best Buy Wal-Mart and other retailers, costing $229 for 16 gigabytes of storage and $269 for 32 gigabytes, according to Google and the Best Buy website.
If the Android tablet is a myth then the WSJ has a lot of explaining to do. You not seeing them means jack **** to reality.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 10:22 PM   #99
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Pretty sure I explained that back then.
No, you didn't. You did try to backpeddle on performance but it was a noble but ultimately futile attempt in your refusal to admit error. "Oh, this page works like crap on my Xoom" is not exactly a good explanation of your (incorrect) position. Only you seemed to have problems with HTML5.

And yes, I said I wasn't going to post again in this thread.

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Since you went back to Android tablets again, this is relevant:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-h...9/SS-2-286050/

If the Android tablet is a myth then the WSJ has a lot of explaining to do. You not seeing them means jack **** to reality.
Seriously? It's not like I live in central Chad, stuck in the middle of a civil war, or on some isolated Polynesian island. It's also not as if I'm stuck in a desperately poor part of the planet, either. Just about everyone I know either has an iPhone, an Android phone or a Blackberry, except my boss, who's a notorious cheapskate and refuses to ever be on contract ever again (but says will buy my 4S should I decide to upgrade). I've even seen someone with a WP phone but it was a WP7 (this was 2011).

Aside from the horrible one Pax bought years ago, I have yet to know or even see an Android tablet being used. It also seems to be borne out by the web usage statistics where even the Amazon Kindle shows up more than all the other Android tablets out. Now, my sister and my nephew each own Kindle Fires but they're the only ones that I know of (and they live in North Carolina). So, if all these tablets are out there, what are people doing with them? I find it nearly impossible to believe they never use them for web. Even I use webmail now (at near gunpoint). Or are they in the hands of people? It's becoming more likely they just sit in some warehouse waiting for someone to buy them. Law of averages and all these shipped numbers means I should have seen one sometime. I literally see everything BUT Android tablets.

I could also add in how the constant stream of newly release Android tablets are SUPPRESSING sales as people push off purchases, sitting around waiting for the next one. This isn't the case with Apple since they have two models now, updated yearly. Nor would this have really affected Windows by the looks of things. That makes it psychologically easier to part with money, even more money than they would pay for an Android device since a buyer would know that they would get so many months before the next iPad comes out. I'm mentioning this because I believe this is why Apple saw a 14% YOY quarterly decline in iPad sales; probably upgraders (like myself) know that a newer model is due. Not sure how big a factor at the market level this would be, but it's likely not trivial.

Quote:
Asus shipped 2.7 million tablets in the first quarter compared to 0.6 million a year earlier, according to market researcher IDC.
Mark Twain once famously said that there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. If he were alive today, he'd say lies, damned lies, and units shipped. Some claims just cannot be verified. Apple's units sold seem reliable, largely because they do deal more directly with the public than most others (they actually disclose units shipped and units sold via their own channels). Samsung, like Amazon, don't even discuss shipped numbers at all. That's why Gartner, IDC and others make money by trying to figure this out for investors so they can game markets. (See below)

It's no wonder market analysis firms have to make stuff up in order to come up with something to justify a paycheque. And they only exist, it seems, because individual investors are just too lazy to do their own laundry choosing, instead to pay someone else to do work they really should do for themselves, but I don't want to go there right now.

Last post. At least for the night.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 10:32 PM   #100
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Personal anecdotes are not evidence. You can't seriously be serious. Maybe it is time to stop posting in this thread.

By the way, there's STILL performance issues on HTML5 demos on my PC running the latest Firefox with a Core i7 Sandy Bridge.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:04 AM   #101
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What's new with the next Surface product? Something with more than four hours of battery life?
According to this review of new Air, Haswell can run MacOSX for 13.5 hours, so it makes sense to assume the same Haswell will perform nicely in Surface too.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 01:36 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL10000 View Post
What's new with the next Surface product? Something with more than four hours of battery life?
According to this review of new Air, Haswell can run MacOSX for 13.5 hours, so it makes sense to assume the same Haswell will perform nicely in Surface too.
He's running in circles not knowing what he's talking about, just what he's seen. Company sales and earnings reports aren't real to him. He'll sometimes infer that Microsoft's issue isn't a hardware one but then has a one liner that you quoted, which is a "hardware problem" reference.




FWIW, posted this 4 days ago...

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HAL isn't really responding to most of the retorts that have invalidated his claims/vision of Microsoft's "irrelevance". It's at the point of blanket statement segways now for him.
He's since ignored more data from different reputable sources or said the WSJ is wrong and manipulates numbers because his personal experience differs. He's bounced around doing forum searches of members on topics not related to this one, as his way to invalidate what other people are saying (even though they are making citations of where their PoV is coming from).
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:35 PM   #103
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http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/29/tablet-marketshare/

Windows tablets amounted to 4.5% of shipments this quarter. Android at 67%. Apple who?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:59 PM   #104
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HAL10000, I see android tablets and WP's all the time. Literally every day just on my trip going too & from work. They are a common sight here on this side of the coast.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 06:28 PM   #105
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It goes well beyond that. The Zune itself was Microsoft screwing over it's PlayForSure partners but hard to say that had any true impact on market sales.

The major problems for the Zune boiled down to "too little, too late." From the consumer point-of-view, that's the core the Zune faced. By the time Microsoft got something to market, people just didn't care about how it looked or any publicized advantages it may have been able to claim. Consumers obviously valued something more than what Microsoft was offering.
Market-share != quality. Your own comments about Android v/s iOS support this. Your assertion about the Zune being a bad product because of market-share is an opinion on perceived quality, not on the product itself.

I had an Cowon iAudio player before I got my first iPhone and it was still spectacularly better than the iPhone, or even players since. Cowon's players don't sell much in the US, but it doesn't mean they don't make absolutely brilliant players.

Likewise, and reiterating here, just because the Zune didn't sell a lot does not mean it did not have a great interface.

Quote:
Microsoft didn't learn a thing which is why I believe their determination to shove Metro down people's throats was an exercise in cost recovery.
You are insinuating things, claiming it as fact and then projecting that to carry your point about Metro not being good.

Metro IS good. Metro is brilliant, in fact, for what it is. It does not have to be used in a desktop/notebook environment. You have choice. On a mobile device, Metro just works. It is simple, it is fast, it is fluid. The key deficiency happens to be the app store. Where iOS sucks donkey balls as an operating system, it has the best app store out there. Android has a very nice happy medium. WP8 has a long way to go to catch up, but the OS itself is not the issue.

Quote:
People who are going to be using software that requires Windows and a desktop will still use a desktop for those activities. Think a Windows 8 tablet would be a great device to use with Solidworks? No, and that's why people who need desktops for work will continue to buy workstations to get around any "limited applicability".
Why must they? Why not use a convertible or a tablet? Why must there be a segregation, a clear delineation between a mobile environment and productivity?

Once Apple marries the two environments on it's side, you will surely change your tune I wager. Speaking as someone who is using the platform across desktop, notebook, tablet AND phone, I will say it has quirks and needs more polish, but for a first attempt at convergence, I love it. If 8.1 is a precursor to updates in the future, I welcome it.

Quote:
Most people basically want two things from the computers from what I've seen: mail and multimedia (usually porn). You don't need a Windows 8 box to do those anymore. Even a smartphone will handle both of those better than a desktop. It's like telling Grandma she should buy an ATI HD9875125 because she might want to play Call of Duty 8 when all she does is watch videos of cats on YouTube and plays Bejewelled.
The beauty of Windows 8 is you can simply use a Win 8 tablet as a consumption device, OR, you can use it for productivity, and everything in between. There is no need to compromise or carry around multiple devices. RT was supposed to be the low end but I completely disagree with the gimping of the platform. The hope is that updates will make RT more usable, but it's simply to just call it a day and concentrate on the lower-power/more efficient Intel procs (and AMD, once AMD gets their power envelope under control).

Quote:
Employers will also not be buying hybrid tablet/desktops if it means extra expense (which they natural will); I'm not seeing the manufacturing paradigm shift to the point where mobile production will be cheaper than full-sized desktop production anytime in the near future.
Employers are looking at BYOD as the next big thing. I can't remember the last time someone at my workplace bought a desktop. Even those needing workstations are going out and grabbing Precision workstations. Those things are beasts, and ISV certified. Mobile is needed in a work environment, especially with meetings and the like. I am typically carrying my notebook around all day, and honestly I can't wait for the BYOD policies to be updated so I can start taking my XPS 12 in to the office.

Quote:
Just larger expense, low battery life and a bloated OS that sucks up huge amounts of your internal storage space. Aside from geeks on tech boards, seems the market is just shrugging it's shoulders and buying something else.
Hal, take a step back and look at what you are saying. What is wrong with a no-compromise device that does everything, v/s having to limit yourself with a half-assed product that costs the same or more? It's completely illogical.

Quote:
Geeks are not mass market and never will be. This is why they can say the iPad is doomed because it doesn't have Flash or a USB connector or an SD slot. Seems people are so insular on these boards they cannot see the broader world around them and assume everyone is somehow a poweruser with the same ideas and desires for computing.
The iPad is a crap device. As with the iPhone, the only reason it sells is because of the applications. If not for developers, Apple would not sell ****. Their operating system is woefully inadequate, and they are years behind in feature-sets.

Are you proposing that the world just stop innovating for 2-3 years?

Most sites still use flash, and things like USB ports ARE important. If they weren't, you wouldn't have USB adapters for the iPad, would you?

http://www.apple.com/ipad/accessories/

Why shell out so much money for an add-on dongle, 1 for USB and 1 for an SD card, when you can have it built-in? How does that make any logical sense to folks, outside of the bean-counters at Apple? And how can you argue AGAINST SD and USB when Apple themselves are raking in a tidy profit on those very accessories?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:14 PM   #106
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The hostility some of you have towards Apple products is really quite amusing
Almost any thread you jump into on this sub-forum seems diffuse into a Apple bashing circlejerk. What any of this has to do with Windows RT is beyond me
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:20 PM   #107
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The hostility some of you have towards Apple products is really quite amusing
I am not sure I would term it hostility. As a user for 5 years, I had some issues from day 1, that remain unresolved. And there is generally a massive cognitive disconnect between someone claiming that iOS is a great OS v/s the reality of it being an amazing app launcher and a crap OS.

Quote:
Almost any thread you jump into on this sub-forum seems diffuse into a Apple bashing circlejerk. What any of this has to do with Windows RT is beyond me
/me shrugs

There are some who want to suggest the iPad is a superior device for various reasons v/s the Surface RT, when reality indicates that it does half as much for potentially twice the price, or more.

The reality v/s perception b.s. just gets tiring after a while.

-edit-

And you can flip the same point you brought up on it's head. Any product that isn't Apple is automatically dismissed as being inferior by many folks, regardless of the facts
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:24 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Ciera View Post
The hostility some of you have towards Apple products is really quite amusing
Almost any thread you jump into on this sub-forum seems diffuse into a Apple bashing circlejerk. What any of this has to do with Windows RT is beyond me
It's odd to me that you could read this thread, read all of HAL's responses, and come to this conclusion about only one side of the argument.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:29 PM   #109
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It's odd to me that you could read this thread, read all of HAL's responses, and come to this conclusion about only one side of the argument.
I didn't bother reading this thread. It would be a waste of time
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:30 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
I am not sure I would term it hostility. As a user for 5 years, I had some issues from day 1, that remain unresolved. And there is generally a massive cognitive disconnect between someone claiming that iOS is a great OS v/s the reality of it being an amazing app launcher and a crap OS.



/me shrugs

There are some who want to suggest the iPad is a superior device for various reasons v/s the Surface RT, when reality indicates that it does half as much for potentially twice the price, or more.

The reality v/s perception b.s. just gets tiring after a while.

-edit-

And you can flip the same point you brought up on it's head. Any product that isn't Apple is automatically dismissed as being inferior by many folks, regardless of the facts
opinion = fact. apparently. that's why i don't read these kinds of threads in full
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:34 PM   #111
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I didn't bother reading this thread. It would be a waste of time
Then why comment on a waste of time? Seems like your wasting time, especially to continue to comment.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:40 PM   #112
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Then why comment on a waste of time? Seems like your wasting time, especially to continue to comment.
Like I said in my first post, I was expecting a Windows RT thread. Not a border-line flamewar. Peace out
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:42 PM   #113
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opinion = fact. apparently. that's why i don't read these kinds of threads in full
It depends on the information being provided or the context.

Saying A is better than B when there is nothing to actually demonstrate that is a fallacy.

Demonstrating why A is better than B and using features, capabilities and real-life examples is the right way to do things.

See my response to Hal, I did my best to show why some of his broad comments may be incorrect.

And as I said, why apply your comment only to "anti-Apple" sentiments? Is the reverse not true also? And are the claims made by the "pro-Apple" contingent not equally, or more false than many that counter them?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:44 PM   #114
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Like I said in my first post, I was expecting a Windows RT thread. Not a border-line flamewar. Peace out
If you cared to read the thread, you would see why there are conversations about iOS, Windows 8/RT, and Android.

Coming in several pages deep and making a random accusation and then playing the "hey, I'm above the fray" comment simply adds fuel to the fire while contributing absolutely nothing.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:24 PM   #115
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I don't see why microsoft should give up on the mobile OS. It's less than 1yr old. It's their first OS for ARM's CPU. How many apps did Google's and Apple's first OS come with? They have a head start so it's hard for Microsoft convince you to switch. Doesn't windows RT have better multitask capabilities than Android and iOS already?
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:14 PM   #116
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I don't see why microsoft should give up on the mobile OS. It's less than 1yr old. It's their first OS for ARM's CPU. How many apps did Google's and Apple's first OS come with? They have a head start so it's hard for Microsoft convince you to switch. Doesn't windows RT have better multitask capabilities than Android and iOS already?
Yes. Functionality it is superior in almost every way.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 11:45 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by 0091/2 View Post
I don't see why microsoft should give up on the mobile OS. It's less than 1yr old. It's their first OS for ARM's CPU. How many apps did Google's and Apple's first OS come with? They have a head start so it's hard for Microsoft convince you to switch. Doesn't windows RT have better multitask capabilities than Android and iOS already?
Here is the problem hardware wise you need more to run WindowsRT then on Android. Now only Dell will support anything WindowsRT based.

Explain to me how this is good business , MS and Dell both have devices which use ARM and Dell has to pay MS licensing money , Dell wants to be competitive but pays $90 per unit to MS.

Dell can't compete with MS because MS doesn't have to pay the $90 for each device.

So you have an OS that will be expensive for anyone but MS, guess how many new hardware manufacturers will sign up for this deal ?

And it ends up with MS being the only one which uses WindowsRT on their own device. While others just use Android.

Did you see the financial statement where they took a hit on Surface for $900M?
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 01:12 PM   #118
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Here is the problem hardware wise you need more to run WindowsRT then on Android. Now only Dell will support anything WindowsRT based.
Doesn't WinRT included more for the hardware it uses? When you say hardware do you mean storage space?


Quote:
Explain to me how this is good business , MS and Dell both have devices which use ARM and Dell has to pay MS licensing money , Dell wants to be competitive but pays $90 per unit to MS.

Dell can't compete with MS because MS doesn't have to pay the $90 for each device.

So you have an OS that will be expensive for anyone but MS, guess how many new hardware manufacturers will sign up for this deal ?

And it ends up with MS being the only one which uses WindowsRT on their own device. While others just use Android.
That's the advantage of making the software but it's also up to them to develop the software. And that isn't free. That doesn't mean manufacturers can't compete. It's not like they can't make a profit with MS making their own tablet. Microsoft's tablets aren't any cheaper, is it? Is microsoft passing that saving to us? if not I don't think it's a problem. The software is the same for everyone. It's who every create the better hardware design, wins.

Are MS surface products just an experiment for Microsoft? Do they seriously want to create hardware?
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 01:25 PM   #119
HAL10000
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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Market-share != quality. Your own comments about Android v/s iOS support this. Your assertion about the Zune being a bad product because of market-share is an opinion on perceived quality, not on the product itself.
How long does it take to figure out that Metro isn't really what people are clamouring for. I can see why Microsoft pursues this strategy. They've always pushed Windows everywhere; it's part of their monopoly DNA. I can also see why they decided to try and leverage something they already developed as a response to changing times.

People in the past didn't buy Windows because they "loved" it. They bought it because there were not really any commercial alternatives, they needed a machine and the FOSS world is just too geeky for the masses. It was a captive market where Microsoft was essentially given taxation rights (even if you bought a PC that didn't even have Windows on it).

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Likewise, and reiterating here, just because the Zune didn't sell a lot does not mean it did not have a great interface.
Not great enough to even survive a year or two in the market. This is why I see the push by Metro more as a mix of desperation to respond and bureaucratic cost recovery.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
You are insinuating things, claiming it as fact and then projecting that to carry your point about Metro not being good.
Seems a lot of people are "projecting" in the marketplace too. Projecting away from Microsoft products. It has no appeal. And let's face it, Microsoft does not exactly have a glowing consumer-friendly reputation. Add in viable alternatives and witnessing the marginalization of Microsoft isn't surprising.

Even if it's as great a product as you say, it's not the first time in computing a superior product fails.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Why must they? Why not use a convertible or a tablet? Why must there be a segregation, a clear delineation between a mobile environment and productivity?
Boils down to cost, as I pointed out. I don't foresee in the future where multifunction hybrids will be cheaper than standalone tablets or standalone traditional form factors. And by that time the market and demographics will have shift to the point comparisons to now would be historical trivia.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Employers are looking at BYOD as the next big thing.
It's been a big thing for a while now, yeah. BYOD really doesn't favour anyone, actually. Except the owners (reduced capital cost) and users (who get to use what they want).

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Hal, take a step back and look at what you are saying. What is wrong with a no-compromise device that does everything, v/s having to limit yourself with a half-assed product that costs the same or more? It's completely illogical.
Right tool for the job. You're asking people to overpay for something they may not need in the remote chance that once in a blue moon they might. "Oh my God! I'm stuck at the beach! I have to reorder and remate these assemblies in Solidworks," is a pretty outlandish argument.

There's nothing wrong with thee idea of a no-compromise device. It's just won't find mass market appeal.

I think the market is at a point where "good enough" is the actual mantra. "My Android phone may not be as good or as well built as an iPhone... but it's good enough." "My iPad doesn't do everything my desktop does ... but it's good enough." And good enough to the point where the portability outweighs the drawbacks. The iPhone and iPad may not be as good as a console or desktop when it comes to gaming, but they are "good enough" to the point where Electronic Arts is making more off the App Store than their own service.

This is where the "no compromise" point you make later falls flat. Consumers are compromising all-to-f**k right now because it's what they want and it fits their lifestyle(s). Remember, people were saying that consumers would be opting for Windows-based netbooks and that no one would pay more for an iPad. Apple was doomed because they weren't making netbooks.

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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
Why shell out so much money for an add-on dongle, 1 for USB and 1 for an SD card, when you can have it built-in? How does that make any logical sense to folks, outside of the bean-counters at Apple? And how can you argue AGAINST SD and USB when Apple themselves are raking in a tidy profit on those very accessories?
Well, first of all, there is a reason why iPods didn't have USB connectors either and it's related to the iTunes store itself. It was a price (the inability of users to quickly "sideload" music) to pay in order to get the music labels on board. This is why Apple went with the 30-pin connector (were other reasons, like it being originally designed around FireWire and not USB). The iPhone and iPad simply carried on the tradition.

Just a little more history.

Remember when Apple stopped including floppy drives? Some people freaked out like crazy like it was the end of the world. It didn't and I was actually envious that I *still* had to use floppies to fix people's computers. People realized they didn't need floppies. Look at the furor when Apple dropped optical drives. Quite a different tone that time. People were counting the hours.

The lack of USB ports clearly didn't doom Apple nor did their availability spur the sales on other devices as well in any serious numbers. People on this board alone were saying how "stupid" Apple was for not having USB ports and that it would dramatically limit sales. They dropped the optical drive on the MacBook Air and replaced it with a pretty expensive SuperDrive. It's the same issue.

I actually have the SD card reader for my iPad and I can literally say I can count the number of times on one hand and have fingers left over. And with camera phones and cloud based storage, Jobs was correct in saying "Yeah, just drop the ports. No one will really care." I might even be tempted to go further by saying that a lot of people may not even have noticed.

I've moved more stuff on and off my iPad using Apache than anything else. People are using DropBox like mad to get stuff on and off too (including sideloading music with it, but you could do that anyways with iTunes and an torrent).

I do question "marketshare" numbers, especially after that stellar piece of analyst work at the end of last week, but it's kind of clear that there's Apple, some Android, then everyone else. I have no idea what can save Microsoft here but it's not going to be Metro (or even "full" Windows).

Anyways, off to the dentist.
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Last edited by HAL10000 : Jul 30, 2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 03:16 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by HAL10000 View Post
How long does it take to figure out that Metro isn't really what people are clamouring for.
What evidence do you have for or against Metro? There are a number of people who are not happy with it, sure. But how many VALID reasons are there? Heck, look at Rage3D for example. There were a lot of threads denigrating the OS when it came out. And then there was a poll.

Those who used it didn't necessarily hate the OS, in fact the winning entry in the poll was "I think it's better than Win 7)

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33995600

A lot of the b.s. that was spewed beforehand turned out to be rubbish. There are GENUINE and VALID reasons why some things don't work. The majority of the arguments simply hold no weight.

Quote:
Not great enough to even survive a year or two in the market. This is why I see the push by Metro more as a mix of desperation to respond and bureaucratic cost recovery.
You are conflating the issue. The interface of the product has little bearing on the rest of it. I also brought up the example of the iAudo. A fantastic set of products that is still better than pretty much everything else in the space, and yet it has a low market share.

If we are looking at things purely by market share, why does Apple continue to produce OSX? Windows 8/RT is supposed to be a failure and yet has a higher market share than OSX. Do you see how ridiculous your line of reasoning is?

Quote:
Seems a lot of people are "projecting" in the marketplace too. Projecting away from Microsoft products. It has no appeal. And let's face it, Microsoft does not exactly have a glowing consumer-friendly reputation. Add in viable alternatives and witnessing the marginalization of Microsoft isn't surprising.
Microsoft has the fastest market share capture in both the tablet and smartphone marketplace currently. The facts do not agree with your emotions.

Quote:
Even if it's as great a product as you say, it's not the first time in computing a superior product fails.
Yes, and it won't be the last. The better product doesn't always win.

Quote:
Right tool for the job. You're asking people to overpay for something they may not need in the remote chance that once in a blue moon they might. "Oh my God! I'm stuck at the beach! I have to reorder and remate these assemblies in Solidworks," is a pretty outlandish argument.
A product that does everything except high end gaming or high-end 3D modeling (or perhaps compiling some stuff), is pretty useful I would think. And if you are working in Solidworks, chances are you are going to remote into your workstation to do stuff and can do so with your portable device. Not outlandish at all. Even iOS and Android devices can handle remoting in.

Quote:
There's nothing wrong with thee idea of a no-compromise device. It's just won't find mass market appeal.
According to whom? A niche consumption device with little practical use such as the iPad has a mass market appeal. Why should something that is more powerful, requires less compromises, and costs the same or less while having more features not have mass market appeal?

Quote:
I think the market is at a point where "good enough" is the actual mantra. "My Android phone may not be as good or as well built as an iPhone... but it's good enough." "My iPad doesn't do everything my desktop does ... but it's good enough." And good enough to the point where the portability outweighs the drawbacks. The iPhone and iPad may not be as good as a console or desktop when it comes to gaming, but they are "good enough" to the point where Electronic Arts is making more off the App Store than their own service.
Innovation on the Android and iOS side of things, vis-a-vis tablets, has definitely stagnated. Things are still going swimmingly on the Windows/Intel side of things.

Quote:
Well, first of all, there is a reason why iPods didn't have USB connectors either and it's related to the iTunes store itself. It was a price (the inability of users to quickly "sideload" music) to pay in order to get the music labels on board. This is why Apple went with the 30-pin connector (were other reasons, like it being originally designed around FireWire and not USB). The iPhone and iPad simply carried on the tradition.
Bull. ****.

Apple makes money off of accessories and people who buy their products are happy to shell out. Why is it that in Europe, where devices are REQUIRED to have consistency of ports and such, Apple offers a free USB adapter? But they get away with charging $30 in the US, and elsewhere, so they charge it.

There is no reason besides the fact they can get away with it. You are obfuscating that fact and inventing excuses.

Quote:
Just a little more history.

Remember when Apple stopped including floppy drives? Some people freaked out like crazy like it was the end of the world. It didn't and I was actually envious that I *still* had to use floppies to fix people's computers. People realized they didn't need floppies. Look at the furor when Apple dropped optical drives. Quite a different tone that time. People were counting the hours.
Some people will always freak out. Many other manufacturers also offered a no floppy option. It saved customer's money. But those who needed floppies could still order a system with it.

You could also order systems without optical drives before Apple decided to drop it, but likewise other manufacturers offered it because some folks still use optical drives. Apple can charge on the accessories and does. Other folks also charge for accessories, but if you buy a system with a built in drive, you don't necessarily have to.

Choice > Apple deciding when and where you don't need stuff.

How about a little history regarding Firewire? How's all those Lightning devices peripherals doing right now?

You make it seem like Apple invents or innovates all these things when it does nothing of the sort. Apple's history, especially it's recent history, is all about taking existing technology or innovation, re-packaging it, filing patents claiming it invented stuff that already existed, and selling it with an amazingly polished marketing campaign. Oh, and suing it's competition out of the market.

The recent USPTO smackdowns of the pinch to zoom and bounce patents proves as much.

Quote:
The lack of USB ports clearly didn't doom Apple nor did their availability spur the sales on other devices as well in any serious numbers. People on this board alone were saying how "stupid" Apple was for not having USB ports and that it would dramatically limit sales. They dropped the optical drive on the MacBook Air and replaced it with a pretty expensive SuperDrive. It's the same issue.
As I pointed out, Apple is making a ton of money selling peripherals. There is nothing wrong with this as long as people are willing to shell out the big bucks for something that is available, by default, on other devices (which also happen to have better screens, ports, multi-tasking... etc. etc.)

That is Apple's business model. No need to change it.

Quote:
I actually have the SD card reader for my iPad and I can literally say I can count the number of times on one hand and have fingers left over. And with camera phones and cloud based storage, Jobs was correct in saying "Yeah, just drop the ports. No one will really care." I might even be tempted to go further by saying that a lot of people may not even have noticed.
There are more accessories for Apple products than any other single devices. Part of it is popularity of those products. Part of it is they are so compromised, they need those accessories to be usable for many folks.

Quote:
I do question "marketshare" numbers, especially after that stellar piece of analyst work at the end of last week, but it's kind of clear that there's Apple, some Android, then everyone else. I have no idea what can save Microsoft here but it's not going to be Metro (or even "full" Windows).
Android rules the roost globally. Apple has their core group. Microsoft has the fastest growth in those segments.

Fun times.


To go back a bit and keep things somewhat on topic, RT is a product that needed more baking. Microsoft seems committed to at least a version 2 (with many of the updates from 8.1 included). It is a superior product. It has had time to incubate. There are far better cloud related services, as well as consistency in the OS.

RT is a sales failure and has not captured the imagination as Microsoft may have expected. But I don't expect Microsoft to pull the plug just yet, not till perhaps next year, if things stay where they are.

The rest of the stuff we talk about, which product is better, what some market shares mean, the direction of the industry, innovation... and all that jazz, it's a good conversation and a good discussion, but will invariably devolve to iOS v/s Android v/s Windows.

Last edited by Sazar : Jul 30, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
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