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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Dec 3, 2012, 02:27 PM   #181
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m4trix
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Yes, the negatives sure are mind bogglingly bad on that review. "Poor Google integration" and "Not available outside AT&T".

I wonder if iPhone got minuses for being available to AT&T? I'm pretty sure if we look at HotHardware review of the time, it won't state that as a negative thing.

US based review sites are full of crap, they've never been anything but mind bogglingly biased.
you are so right Brother. Wonder why any one bother with the US phone reviews
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 08:15 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Roadhog_ View Post
I don't see what you guys are faping over here...
A great product

I know you posted this just to strike up a conversation about the product via our steam conversation, so I'll take the time to respond

Negatives that aren't really:

-The battery life is not weak (see my screen-shots earlier in the thread). Some people are having issues when the NFC option is left on, otherwise I get the same or better battery life compared to my old iPhone 4.

- Google integration is not bad considering this isn't Android. In fact I have great integration via the apps as well as the people hub (which has Google accounts/gmail/g+ integration tightly integrated). I do think that Google's Google app sucks, but I expect it to get updated as we move along. Nokia Maps and Bing cover the majority of gaps you may think exist. The Bing search (and related elements within it) is quite fantastic.

- The weight is also not an issue. The phone is heavier, yes, but not much so. And the features (better camera, decent battery, wireless charging) make up for it. Plus the phone is pretty darn indestructible.

The other negatives hold more weight:

- ATT exclusive: I agree, stupid move.

- App ecosystem still weak: Yes, it is, thus far, the only issue that can be a bit of a show-stopper. However, the majority of popular apps are all present directly or via 3'rd party, and the rate of new apps and upgrades is increasing.
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:12 PM   #183
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the one thing I don't like is no memory card slot and only 32gb

hope the fix one or both by the next one
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Old Dec 3, 2012, 09:42 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
the one thing I don't like is no memory card slot and only 32gb

hope the fix one or both by the next one
Samsung Ativ S has 16/32gb variants ANd they have SD card slots for an additional 32/64gb (i dunno which one to believe, ive seen both numbers being thrown around)

And the Ativ S is basically a Galaxy S3 running WP8.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 05:21 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Sasquach View Post
Samsung Ativ S has 16/32gb variants ANd they have SD card slots for an additional 32/64gb (i dunno which one to believe, ive seen both numbers being thrown around)

And the Ativ S is basically a Galaxy S3 running WP8.
It is nothing like Galaxy S3... It is more like HTC Windows Phone 8x. But anyways spec says it supports SDXC, so in theory it should support SD-cards up to 2 TB
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:24 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by painkiller View Post
It is nothing like Galaxy S3... It is more like HTC Windows Phone 8x. But anyways spec says it supports SDXC, so in theory it should support SD-cards up to 2 TB
should clarify, the NA GS3. International GS3 is indeed different.
Just like the HTX One X (and NA is getting the 'international' One X called One X+)
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 11:43 PM   #187
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I messed around with my iPhone 4 earlier and I am just shocked at how archaic and retarded the operating system truly was.

Honestly, if not for the app's and the marketing, the device would have devolved to the bottom of the heap waaaay long ago.

It was hard for me to see the difference previously, using the Android and Windows Mobile devices I did for moments at a time. At least that's the way it seems. I have helped a few colleagues setup their iPhone 5's at work, my brother just got a GS3, but neither of these devices hold a candle to the OS that Microsoft has put together. The hardware is also pretty amazing but the OS, the smoothness and functionality, night and day difference.

And how the heck did we survive on that ridiculously tiny screen? Why oh why did Apple stop innovating?

Microsoft needs to spend some serious time with the app developers to get their store going. Developers for iOS definitely have a long head start, Android devs are closing in. Few apps for Microsoft's OS are clearly ahead in terms of overall features, besides the native ones and Nokia's select few.

The 3'rd party items aren't too far behind but there is definitely polish missing from some of the pretenders.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 03:43 PM   #188
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Mac Life guys like Lumia 920 too - 4 1/2 stars (900 got 4)

The bottom line. Windows Phone continues to be the mobile OS underdog, but we still prefer it to Google’s Android, especially with the newly enhanced features delivered by Windows Phone 8.

The Nokia Lumia 920 is our favorite handset on this platform, offering a remarkable amount of style, fit, and finish for a price that even Apple will have a hard time matching by the time the next iPhone rolls around.

Source: http://www.maclife.com/article/revie...920_att_review

I can concur with the sync app being a bit slow for OS X, hopefully improved in the near future. I'm happy there IS a sync app in the first place.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:06 PM   #189
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Got apt-X? Teh goggles are inconclusive... not in current spec but could be added?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:16 PM   #190
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Got apt-X? Teh goggles are inconclusive... not in current spec but could be added?
wat?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:28 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Auric View Post
Got apt-X? Teh goggles are inconclusive... not in current spec but could be added?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:30 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
I messed around with my iPhone 4 earlier and I am just shocked at how archaic and retarded the operating system truly was.

Honestly, if not for the app's and the marketing, the device would have devolved to the bottom of the heap waaaay long ago.

It was hard for me to see the difference previously, using the Android and Windows Mobile devices I did for moments at a time. At least that's the way it seems. I have helped a few colleagues setup their iPhone 5's at work, my brother just got a GS3, but neither of these devices hold a candle to the OS that Microsoft has put together. The hardware is also pretty amazing but the OS, the smoothness and functionality, night and day difference.

And how the heck did we survive on that ridiculously tiny screen? Why oh why did Apple stop innovating?

Microsoft needs to spend some serious time with the app developers to get their store going. Developers for iOS definitely have a long head start, Android devs are closing in. Few apps for Microsoft's OS are clearly ahead in terms of overall features, besides the native ones and Nokia's select few.

The 3'rd party items aren't too far behind but there is definitely polish missing from some of the pretenders.
If an Apple user/fan would write something like this but in a pro-Apple sense, it would be a shitstorm in here
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:54 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
If an Apple user/fan would write something like this but in a pro-Apple sense, it would be a shitstorm in here
There was plenty written like this previously in a pro-Apple sense. I don't know if threads survive on NVN from around the time I got my iPhone 3G, post app-store of course.

Back then, there was every reason to praise the product and ecosystem. It has been a LONG time since that has been true though.

Why lie to oneself?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:56 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Mac Life guys like Lumia 920 too - 4 1/2 stars (900 got 4)

The bottom line. Windows Phone continues to be the mobile OS underdog, but we still prefer it to Google’s Android, especially with the newly enhanced features delivered by Windows Phone 8.

The Nokia Lumia 920 is our favorite handset on this platform, offering a remarkable amount of style, fit, and finish for a price that even Apple will have a hard time matching by the time the next iPhone rolls around.

Source: http://www.maclife.com/article/revie...920_att_review

I can concur with the sync app being a bit slow for OS X, hopefully improved in the near future. I'm happy there IS a sync app in the first place.
For the majority of items, you can sync directly to the cloud or skydrive. I am assuming you are syncing music?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 04:57 PM   #195
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I am assuming you are syncing music?
Yes, I also don't touch cloud services at all. I only use my own.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:10 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Yes, I also don't touch cloud services at all. I only use my own.
Gotcha.

I sync for Windows 8 so it was a natural progression for me (allowed me to basically restore my phone perfectly without touching a computer, all from the cloud).

The current sync apps are not as good as the old Zune application was. Will be interesting to see how it is developed.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:43 PM   #197
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Hmm. Kinda surprises me a bit that you guys are such a fan of this phone and not the butterfly/ droid dna. Both are non removable bat non removable storage. Granted the 920 comes with 32gb (dunno what htc was thinking with the 16). The dna has a better screen, wireless charging, better current platform, similar battery life from what I noticed in real word usage, nfc, decent camera and similar physical size.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:54 PM   #198
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Hmm. Kinda surprises me a bit that you guys are such a fan of this phone and not the butterfly/ droid dna. Both are non removable bat non removable storage. Granted the 920 comes with 32gb (dunno what htc was thinking with the 16). The dna has a better screen, wireless charging, better current platform, similar battery life from what I noticed in real word usage, nfc, decent camera and similar physical size.
I don't have the option to purchase it on ATT. It boiled down to the iPhone 5, the GS3, the GN2, and this.

At the end of the day, after research and trying out the different devices, I found this one to be the best fit for me.

The DNA is a great device in it's own right. I just ended up liking the 920's overall design and the operating system won me over.

The Nokia also has the best camera on the market.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 09:41 PM   #199
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If an Apple user/fan would write something like this but in a pro-Apple sense, it would be a shitstorm in here




Something like that....
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:49 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Faaarrr ooouutt meeeoowwaan...

apt-X is a codec for non-shitey wireless audio transmission, particularly for music. As such, it's a must have function these days. It seems the 920 has the requisite Bluetooth version but perhaps Nokia has not (yet?) licensed and/or added the codec?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 11:09 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Auric View Post
Faaarrr ooouutt meeeoowwaan...

apt-X is a codec for non-shitey wireless audio transmission, particularly for music. As such, it's a must have function these days. It seems the 920 has the requisite Bluetooth version but perhaps Nokia has not (yet?) licensed and/or added the codec?
Interesting.

Is it typically implemented via an app or natively?
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:25 PM   #202
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Back then, there was every reason to praise the product and ecosystem. It has been a LONG time since that has been true though.
I respect your opinion if that's what you think.

But in general, here is something I don't understand. Stuff gets praised when it's new and groundbreaking. But after a while, even though the stuff was enhanced during that time, it gets trashed regardless.

Products or services don't get re-invented every x months. Every once in a while, there is a new idea/approach and once it catches on, it will get improved over time but not re-invented. This has been the case in many products and industries. Just look at PC operating systems.
Besides, once you have build up a user (and in this case developer) base, you can't just constantly change things around anymore.

Why should it be different in this market?
Just look at the Lightning port change. It replaced a connector that was 9 years old, that's a long time and yet it got a lot of criticism. Changing fundamental OS elements like user interface or the ecosystem every 2 years would be non-sense once you have a a very polished solution.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 12:57 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
I respect your opinion if that's what you think.

But in general, here is something I don't understand. Stuff gets praised when it's new and groundbreaking. But after a while, even though the stuff was enhanced during that time, it gets trashed regardless.

Products or services don't get re-invented every x months. Every once in a while, there is a new idea/approach and once it catches on, it will get improved over time but not re-invented. This has been the case in many products and industries. Just look at PC operating systems.
Besides, once you have build up a user (and in this case developer) base, you can't just constantly change things around anymore.

Why should it be different in this market?
Just look at the Lightning port change. It replaced a connector that was 9 years old, that's a long time and yet it got a lot of criticism. Changing fundamental OS elements like user interface or the ecosystem every 2 years would be non-sense once you have a a very polished solution.
There's a reason for that port change rage.

#1 It added 0 benefit other than you can plug it in both ways for the consumer.
#2 It made a lot of accessories some of which are hard/expensive to replace useless (like the dock in your car for example)
#3 It wasn't a move to something universal just something else proprietary with no real justification or reason.

It's still a usb 2 connection, it did nothing that the old cable couldn't do but it adds problems. Imagine if Western digital one day said well we are going to redesign the sata connector and all drives you receive as replacements under warranty will come with that new connector. Btw there are no benefits in doing so for you as the consumer. However, the drive will still be compatible with most/or some sata boards if you buy an adapter. Same crap. It was nothing more than a money grubbing move. So blatant even in the keynote how the very next slide was "the adapter is 29.99" right after showing the new connector and speaking nothing of it's features other than its symmetrical.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 01:03 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
It's still a usb 2 connection, it did nothing that the old cable couldn't do but it adds problems
There's no proof that it cannot do USB3 speeds, in fact it has additional pins that are unused and could very well do so (prolly already does, iPhone just doesn't support it yet).

Also I'm a fan of cables that you don't have to care which way you're inserting them - hence I don't find the Lightning port to be useless, on the contrary.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 01:05 PM   #205
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Interesting.

Is it typically implemented via an app or natively?
Presumably native in firmware and/or OS so just automatic regardless of app/player.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 01:08 PM   #206
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But in general, here is something I don't understand. Stuff gets praised when it's new and groundbreaking. But after a while, even though the stuff was enhanced during that time, it gets trashed regardless.
Understandable point. However, when the competition catches up and surpasses what you've enhanced, it becomes trashed.

Quote:
Products or services don't get re-invented every x months. Every once in a while, there is a new idea/approach and once it catches on, it will get improved over time but not re-invented. This has been the case in many products and industries. Just look at PC operating systems.
Besides, once you have build up a user (and in this case developer) base, you can't just constantly change things around anymore.

Why should it be different in this market?
Just look at the Lightning port change. It replaced a connector that was 9 years old, that's a long time and yet it got a lot of criticism. Changing fundamental OS elements like user interface or the ecosystem every 2 years would be non-sense once you have a a very polished solution.
A couple good points. However, you're indirectly arguing in favor of staying put, staying stagnant. Just redoing what you already got. That's what Apple is currently doing. There isn't any indication of a vision. To me, there's signs of a Shakespearean tragedy brewing at Apple. Their elitism of, ours is better because it's ours, while causing a huge surge in sales and mystique in building that image... is currently now becoming their undoing. If it wasn't, Android wouldn't have exploded like it has.

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There's a reason for that port change rage.

#1 It added 0 benefit other than you can plug it in both ways for the consumer.
#2 It made a lot of accessories some of which are hard/expensive to replace useless (like the dock in your car for example)
#3 It wasn't a move to something universal just something else proprietary with no real justification or reason.

It's still a usb 2 connection, it did nothing that the old cable couldn't do but it adds problems. Imagine if Western digital one day said well we are going to redesign the sata connector and all drives you receive as replacements under warranty will come with that new connector. Btw there are no benefits in doing so for you as the consumer. However, the drive will still be compatible with most/or some sata boards if you buy an adapter. Same crap. It was nothing more than a money grubbing move. So blatant even in the keynote how the very next slide was "the adapter is 29.99" right after showing the new connector and speaking nothing of it's features other than its symmetrical.
A good counter point and reinforces the, it's our design so it's better mystique when... is it really? No, but their culture says it is. However, I think they do actually have long term goals for the design in taking up less space inside.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 01:29 PM   #207
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I am sure there are other long term ideas for the cable since most of the pins are unused (even cat 5 cables have unused pairs to this day). However, I don't foresee that coming for the next year or so. Which means the 5s and 5 and all apple products would come with this port for no technical reason. Aside from consumers buying products cables, accessories so forth. Think about all the money that will come in from accessory manufactures will have to pay apple to licence. That is why I call this port nothing more than a cash grab.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 05:48 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
I respect your opinion if that's what you think.

But in general, here is something I don't understand. Stuff gets praised when it's new and groundbreaking. But after a while, even though the stuff was enhanced during that time, it gets trashed regardless.
In my opinion, a lot has to do with the marketing and the nonsensical claims it is based off of.

Back when the iPhone 3G came out, it was truly awesome, especially once the App Store went live. The iPhone 4 wasn't bad and the screen was great.

Besides that, there has been very little done. The competition has truly innovated and added a number of features which the users of a different eco-system trash simply because they have been told it isn't needed.

"screen is too big", "don't need LTE", "live tiles? why?", "folders? but that's stupid", "front facing camera? ridiculous". The list goes on and on and on.

If a company purposely holds back it's entire user-base to milk them for extra money (44% margins indicate this is specifically what's going on) by adding a slight bit of polish here and there, it's almost criminal.

Quote:
Products or services don't get re-invented every x months. Every once in a while, there is a new idea/approach and once it catches on, it will get improved over time but not re-invented. This has been the case in many products and industries. Just look at PC operating systems.
The hardware and features and OS from the various companies have been ramping up rapidly. iOS can easily support widgets and other items. We see that in the jailbreak world. Are the well compensated coder's who work for Apple not as good?

Quote:
Besides, once you have build up a user (and in this case developer) base, you can't just constantly change things around anymore.
iTunes 11.

Quote:
Why should it be different in this market?
Just look at the Lightning port change. It replaced a connector that was 9 years old, that's a long time and yet it got a lot of criticism. Changing fundamental OS elements like user interface or the ecosystem every 2 years would be non-sense once you have a a very polished solution.
The criticism was the continued use and reliance on a proprietary connector. I wish the US would go the route of the EU where a standard adapter is a requirement to play in the consumer space. Proprietary crap is terrible customer experience.

We are getting way off topic of the Lumia 920 here. Suffice to say, every single iPhone (including iPhone 5) user I have shown the Lumia interface and explained how things work has been blown away by the ease of use and power of the device.

Few people use several hundred apps, it's typically 30-50 common apps with perhaps 20 odd very frequently used. Consolidation, things like the people hub and live tiles, all these things are WANTED features. My sample size is about 20 folks.

And each of them understood it would be a change but all were willing to put in the time because of the added features and functionality.

Not one said the phone was too heavy (well over half were young women).

To go back, yes, it is my opinion, but I am surprised that a terrible, ancient and archaic user interface such as iOS is still praised by folks.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 03:42 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by AdelphiaX View Post
A couple good points. However, you're indirectly arguing in favor of staying put, staying stagnant. Just redoing what you already got. That's what Apple is currently doing. There isn't any indication of a vision. ... If it wasn't, Android wouldn't have exploded like it has.
Not at all. That's only what you interpreted. I'm just saying that you can't change fundamental elements all the time. But that doesn't mean you have to stagnate.

Android just recently got usable for the first time. After that it "exploded".
And add the fact that cheap normal phones get replaced by low-end smartphones because that's now financially possible. That also adds a lot to the Android numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazar View Post
In my opinion, a lot has to do with the marketing and the nonsensical claims it is based off of.

Back when the iPhone 3G came out, it was truly awesome, especially once the App Store went live. The iPhone 4 wasn't bad and the screen was great.

Besides that, there has been very little done. The competition has truly innovated and added a number of features which the users of a different eco-system trash simply because they have been told it isn't needed.

"screen is too big", "don't need LTE", "live tiles? why?", "folders? but that's stupid", "front facing camera? ridiculous". The list goes on and on and on.

If a company purposely holds back it's entire user-base to milk them for extra money (44% margins indicate this is specifically what's going on) by adding a slight bit of polish here and there, it's almost criminal.



The hardware and features and OS from the various companies have been ramping up rapidly. iOS can easily support widgets and other items. We see that in the jailbreak world. Are the well compensated coder's who work for Apple not as good?



iTunes 11.



The criticism was the continued use and reliance on a proprietary connector. I wish the US would go the route of the EU where a standard adapter is a requirement to play in the consumer space. Proprietary crap is terrible customer experience.

We are getting way off topic of the Lumia 920 here. Suffice to say, every single iPhone (including iPhone 5) user I have shown the Lumia interface and explained how things work has been blown away by the ease of use and power of the device.

Few people use several hundred apps, it's typically 30-50 common apps with perhaps 20 odd very frequently used. Consolidation, things like the people hub and live tiles, all these things are WANTED features. My sample size is about 20 folks.

And each of them understood it would be a change but all were willing to put in the time because of the added features and functionality.

Not one said the phone was too heavy (well over half were young women).

To go back, yes, it is my opinion, but I am surprised that a terrible, ancient and archaic user interface such as iOS is still praised by folks.
Can you please name a few of those true innovations from Google and MS?

iTunes 11 is actually a good example of what I'm talking about. It's the first major re-design. After more than 10 years! Over the years, iTunes got many new features and sub-layouts. But the fundamentals remained the same. This is how it usually works in so many industries.

I think what you're doing now when comparing WP8 to iOS6 is comparing a product that is in its first years (counting WP7) of its product cycle to a product that is maybe half-way through already.
MS slept for a long time but they had their eyes open when starting fresh with WP7. They came up with great ideas and new solutions to solve old problems.
I'm curious to see how MS will move forward with this, in case they have success with the current platform and start gaining users and developers. The fundamentals, for the end user, between WP7.x and WP8 didn't change a whole lot.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:20 AM   #210
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Can you please name a few of those true innovations from Google and MS?
From an OS perspective, have you even used the other products? They are miles ahead of iOS. This is specifically why I switched devices. The added hardware features just happened to be gravy.
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