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Smartphones, Tablets and Handheld Computing From Android, Symbian to Apple devices, this is the place for discussion and debate, whether it's smartphones, tablets or even gaming handhelds.

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 11:09 AM   #31
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Elysian
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Originally Posted by Zero View Post
I agree, having the choice to play on anything is the best option. However, the content that you play is created by others trying to make a living. Do we want game-makers to divide their efforts (and subsequently, the quality of the end product) by taking on multiple platforms? Or would we rather play on less platforms and get better quality games? Tough call.
Most developers would rather get their product out to as many people as possible, hence why there are so few exclusive games on consoles, the vast majority are multi-platform.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 11:32 AM   #32
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Piracy exists just as much on consoles, and yet their sales numbers are still much higher.

I don't buy that piracy ever had a substantial impact on sales. I'm very convinced that people just want to plug n play, and closed system offer an easier way for developers to get that content to consumers.
You don't need to buy anything. Feel free to call every developer a liar that has blamed piracy for their lack of efforts on the PC side. Fact is, it is MUCH more easier to pirate a game on the PC than it is for a console.

Quote:
I find this statement to be highly dubious. With unclear DD numbers, we can only really talk about retail sales. PC games are not selling well in retail, most retailers have clearly reduced their PC game shelf space in favor of console games. Taking Call of Duty Black Ops as a recent example, vgchartz has estimated that ~9M units were sold on 360 vs less than 1M on PC. Even big name PC game like Starcraft II sold what, less than 3M?
I find your argument to highly dubious, and for good reason. Digital downloads play a MAJOR role in total PC sales, to simply just include retail sales is just plain ignorant.

http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/12/...l-sales-in-us/



Quote:
I can't think of the last crossplatform title to have PC-only content (save Dragon Age's isometric view). In fact, with developers being pushed to consolize everything (Mass Effect sequels, Dragon Age sequels, Fallout series, etc), I see a very clear preference for the closed system environment on their side.
Then you have a very narrow view. For every big developer that "announces" a console as their primary development kit, another PC developer will more than happily replace them. Just in the last few years we've had great quality PC exclusive titles like The Witcher, Drakensang, Stalker, Starcraft 2, etc...

Are you a PC gamer? If you are, then you'd know PC hardware is miles ahead of any console, and why lots of cross-platform titles will have extra detail/IQ for PC versions. Of course there's lazy developers that are only content to do poor console ports, but games like Lost Planet 2, Aliens vs Predator, GTA4, are optimized graphically for the PC. API's like Directx 11 and Physx certainly help.

Quote:

The point I was trying to make originally is that closed system development seems to be where the industry wants to go. It really makes no sense for developers to try and unify a fragmented marketplace under their product. Nor would it make sense for mobile games to be developed with upcoming hardware in mind (to parallel PC game development) since most people will be locked in a phone contract for 2-3 years. I think this is where logical hits a good point, with iDevices being limited to 1 or 2 recent generations and very similar hardware sets, developers will always have an edge at developing, testing, and releasing on the iOS platform. And making money as a prime incentive, I can't see why they would otherwise choose an unproven and technically-more-difficult market with upcoming Android hardware.
This is just wishful thinking on your part. First off, developers have alot more freedom in console development than the iPhone, so your comparison is flawed from the start. The iPhone isn't a gaming device, and never will be one on the same level as a dedicated portable gaming device like the PSP/Nintendo DS. The vast majority of games are "casual" games, and this is the market developers will target...you'll never see a Starcraft 2 or a Black Ops on the iPhone. Even games like Need for Speed are severely watered down on phones just to appeal to the casual gamer.

Developers are flocking to the Android platform in droves, completely contrary to what you want to believe above. With a development friendly platform, powerful upcoming hardware that puts current phones to shame, and a push by Sony to make Android to make it the preferred platform for its next portable gaming device all points to a rather bright future for Android gaming.

Quote:
I think it's great that iOS will get more competition, but I'd like to also think that most of it will come from seasoned development and standardized hardware with WP7, not Android this year.
Really? WP7? I don't want to be harsh, but I think its obvious you truly don't understand the major points of this discussion at all.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 11:40 AM   #33
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I think it's great that iOS will get more competition, but I'd like to also think that most of it will come from seasoned development and standardized hardware with WP7, not Android this year.
WP7 hardware will be equally as diverse as Android hardware, WP7 has minimum specs but that's it.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
You don't need to buy anything. Feel free to call every developer a liar that has blamed piracy for their lack of efforts on the PC side. Fact is, it is MUCH more easier to pirate a game on the PC than it is for a console.
Why would I need to call them liars? It's simply a myopic view to blame piracy when other factors like economics and widespread casual gaming tendencies are equally to blame for the decline of PC game development.

Quote:
I find your argument to highly dubious, and for good reason. Digital downloads play a MAJOR role in total PC sales, to simply just include retail sales is just plain ignorant.
I only didn't want to discuss it because DD platforms like Steam don't always release their sale numbers to NPD/vgc, etc. Even if the article you linked to could be considered a credible source, the ratio is still 1:1, still makes PC game sales less than console sales.

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Then you have a very narrow view. For every big developer that "announces" a console as their primary development kit, another PC developer will more than happily replace them. Just in the last few years we've had great quality PC exclusive titles like The Witcher, Drakensang, Stalker, Starcraft 2, etc...
And that's great, but their very niche market makes continued development economically impractical. From this, you get things like Crytek being absorbed by EA and producing Crysis 2 for the console set.

Quote:
Are you a PC gamer? If you are, then you'd know PC hardware is miles ahead of any console, and why lots of cross-platform titles will have extra detail/IQ for PC versions. Of course there's lazy developers that are only content to do poor console ports, but games like Lost Planet 2, Aliens vs Predator, GTA4, are optimized graphically for the PC. API's like Directx 11 and Physx certainly help.
And how well do bleeding edge games sell? In the long run, consumers will not care about PC gaming's hardware and its capabilities if they can get 80% of the graphical experience and 100% of the gameplay experience on a hardware-inferior system.

Quote:
This is just wishful thinking on your part. First off, developers have alot more freedom in console development than the iPhone, so your comparison is flawed from the start. The iPhone isn't a gaming device, and never will be one on the same level as a dedicated portable gaming device like the PSP/Nintendo DS.
The millions of people who game on their iPhones beg to differ.

Quote:
The vast majority of games are "casual" games, and this is the market developers will target...you'll never see a Starcraft 2 or a Black Ops on the iPhone. Even games like Need for Speed are severely watered down on phones just to appeal to the casual gamer.
And casual gaming is where the money is coming from. People don't WANT to play starcraft or Black Ops on their mobile device...

Quote:
Developers are flocking to the Android platform in droves, completely contrary to what you want to believe above. With a development friendly platform, powerful upcoming hardware that puts current phones to shame, and a push by Sony to make Android to make it the preferred platform for its next portable gaming device all points to a rather bright future for Android gaming.
Correction, it points to a bright future for Sony portable gaming. How that will translate for other Android devices depends on how Sony will control flow of their top tier titles.

Quote:
Really? WP7? I don't want to be harsh, but I think its obvious you truly don't understand the major points of this discussion at all.
So because I disagree with you, your retort is to be condescending and insulting? Are you and Android developer looking to create hype or just a fanboi then? I really don't care, go live in your deluded little world.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:34 PM   #35
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WP7 hardware will be equally as diverse as Android hardware, WP7 has minimum specs but that's it.
I wouldn't say so, WP7 first gen releases are all pretty much sticking to minimum specs. And the point is, having that standard against which to develop will greatly benefit the releases for WP7 gaming.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:40 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Zero View Post
I wouldn't say so, WP7 first gen releases are all pretty much sticking to minimum specs. And the point is, having that standard against which to develop will greatly benefit the releases for WP7 gaming.
Samsung's WP7 phones use the Hummingbird processor... I'm sure if Moto enters the WP7 market it'll use the TI processors or Tegra 2. Some use Tegra 250 processors, others use Snapdragon.

Almost all of the current Android phones released since the Nexus One have used the same processors WP7 phones are using.

Last edited by Elysian : Dec 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:50 PM   #37
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Samsung's WP7 phones use the Hummingbird processor... I'm sure if Moto enters the WP7 market it'll use the TI processors or Tegra 2. Some use Tegra 250 processors, others use Snapdragon.
What uses a tegra2? And until Moto joins the club, assumptions don't affect the reality of the current hardware lineup.

From this list of available devices, everything uses the same CPU/GPU and more or less the same amount of RAM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Phone_devices
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:06 PM   #38
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The iPhone is a gaming device in much the same way a PC is a gaming device. It can do more than that, but gaming is obviously a large part of what it is. I'm not sure why it is so hard to acknowledge it as a gaming device, but I see it a lot. It also explains the desire to not want to like interesting and complex games in the platform.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:20 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by pahncrd View Post
The iPhone is a gaming device in much the same way a PC is a gaming device. It can do more than that, but gaming is obviously a large part of what it is. I'm not sure why it is so hard to acknowledge it as a gaming device, but I see it a lot. It also explains the desire to not want to like interesting and complex games in the platform.
I don't know I'd go as far as saying it's a gaming device. What I was trying to say in my previous posts is.. While the hardware can play intense games the whole touch screen aspect of playing really sucks ass. Most the time my fingers are wondering off course and I find myself fighting to find things. That's because touch screens don't offer any sort of tactile feedback. I think hell will freeze over before Sony or Nintendo releases a touch screen PSP or DS

Phones have the hardware, but they are trying to make them be something they are not. That's why I have a lot of trouble playing intense games. Phones are great gaming devices, but I think there's a limit to what they should play.

Phones are great for games like:
Angry birds
Orbital
Wordfeud
SpeedX
etc.

Simple, yet fun and addicting games.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Zero View Post
What uses a tegra2? And until Moto joins the club, assumptions don't affect the reality of the current hardware lineup.

From this list of available devices, everything uses the same CPU/GPU and more or less the same amount of RAM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Phone_devices
One of the guys on here has a Tegra 250 WP7 device(not to be confused with Tegra 2), though I think it's a developer handset or something like that. Still, Tegra 2 will come to WP7.

Like I said, the Samsungs use the Hummingbird processor, with PowerVR SGX 545 GPU. Most of the rest use Snapdragon with the Adreno GPU... Not the same processors so if you think fragmentation is gonna happen on Android, it makes no sense to not think the same thing on WP7.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:31 PM   #41
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Why would I need to call them liars? It's simply a myopic view to blame piracy when other factors like economics and widespread casual gaming tendencies are equally to blame for the decline of PC game development.
Look, you don't seem to get it. Certain developers have SPECIFICALLY stated the reason for moving away from the PC as a development platform is because of piracy. Here are some quotes:

http://www.techspot.com/news/38997-e...-consoles.html

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...eter-moore.ars

Developers don't like to make games for the PC when they know it's going to be easily pirated. Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with consoles being a closed system.

Quote:

I only didn't want to discuss it because DD platforms like Steam don't always release their sale numbers to NPD/vgc, etc. Even if the article you linked to could be considered a credible source, the ratio is still 1:1, still makes PC game sales less than console sales.
Now you're applying circular logic. Who disputed PC games was less than console sales? I obviously corrected you on your ignorance concerning digital downloads and you come back to say "still, pc games are less than console sales", which had absolutely nothing to do with the original argument.

Now answer me this. How many households do you know have ALL consoles...PS3, Xbox 360, and a Wii? Because that's what PC games are compared against, ALL consoles lumped into one. Now, when PC games are compared against INDIVIDUAL consoles, suddenly PC gamers are right up there with PS3 and Xbox 360.

Quote:


And that's great, but their very niche market makes continued development economically impractical. From this, you get things like Crytek being absorbed by EA and producing Crysis 2 for the console set.
PC gaming isn't a "niche" market. The fact you're on this website should make that clear to you. ATI and Nvidia depend on PC gamers. Consoles FOLLOW wherever PC gaming goes. Stereoscopic 3D gaming, GPU physics, etc...

Developers that chose to remain on the PC platform are doing fine, save a handful that had poor business practices in the first place. CAPCOM is an example of a primary console developer that now ensures their top tier games come out for PC as well, and with PC specific optimizations (like Lost Planet 2).

Quote:
And how well do bleeding edge games sell? In the long run, consumers will not care about PC gaming's hardware and its capabilities if they can get 80% of the graphical experience and 100% of the gameplay experience on a hardware-inferior system.
Have you been keeping up on this website? A typical midrange system blows any console out of the water. ATI and Nvidia releases graphic cards for the masses, prices are astoundingly affordable for powerful video cards compared to 5 years ago. Same for CPU's. Again I ask you, what are you doing here on this website if you're somehow oblivious to this?


Quote:
The millions of people who game on their iPhones beg to differ.
How many of those people primarily use the iphone for GAMING? Yeah, I thought so. That's why there are no complex games available, because it's not considered a true gaming device. Gaming is casual, like its always been since the first cellphones with snake/tetris a decade ago, especially with a touchscreen only device with no type of analog/digital controller. Besides, that kind of logic is flawed in the first place...it would be no different than me coming back with something similar like "Billions of PC Gamers beg to differ."


Quote:

And casual gaming is where the money is coming from. People don't WANT to play starcraft or Black Ops on their mobile device...
You've successfully contradicted yourself here. You want to consider the iPhone a serious gaming device, yet acknowledge only "casual" games (like Angry Birds) as the most profitable? Umm....why don't you compare iPhone games to PSP or Nintendo DS games sold. You might wake up from this dreamland of yours.



Quote:
Correction, it points to a bright future for Sony portable gaming. How that will translate for other Android devices depends on how Sony will control flow of their top tier titles.
As I said before, it will create a halo/copycat effect. Of course, only time will tell.

Quote:
So because I disagree with you, your retort is to be condescending and insulting? Are you and Android developer looking to create hype or just a fanboi then? I really don't care, go live in your deluded little world.
Your post concerning WP7 was laughable and didn't jive with logic, hence my response. A free, open platform will ALWAYS attract more developers than a closed system (as you're seeing now with Android vs iphone). iOS will not get competition from WP7 in terms of gaming , as it's not selling that well and not predicted to gain any marketshare from Android in the long. Meanwhile, Android (the most popular phone OS right), sits atop the smartphone market with tons of developers and users joining every day.

EDIT: Zero are you a PC Gamer or a console gamer? Somehow you've managed to turn this into a PC Gaming vs Console discussion. There's another forum for that if you want to continue this particular aspect.
__________________
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.

Last edited by Exposed : Dec 27, 2010 at 01:42 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:32 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
I don't know I'd go as far as saying it's a gaming device. What I was trying to say in my previous posts is.. While the hardware can play intense games the whole touch screen aspect of playing really sucks ass. Most the time my fingers are wondering off course and I find myself fighting to find things. That's because touch screens don't offer any sort of tactile feedback. I think hell will freeze over before Sony or Nintendo releases a touch screen PSP or DS

Phones have the hardware, but they are trying to make them be something they are not. That's why I have a lot of trouble playing intense games. Phones are great gaming devices, but I think there's a limit to what they should play.

Phones are great for games like:
Angry birds
Orbital
Wordfeud
SpeedX
etc.

Simple, yet fun and addicting games.
I disagree with every ounce of my gamer being. I have no problem at all playing all sorts of games on my phone. It was weird at first, but I got used to it just like I had to do with any other controller or control style.

I had a feeling why you weren't letting yourself get into gaming on your smartphone. It is just arbitrary personal prejudice, and a desire to not acknowledge iOS as a gaming platform.

You can try to make personal definitions about what makes something a gaming device or not, but the fact of the matter is, people play games on iOS in DROVES. Gaming on iOS is a huge industry now, Apple positioned iOS to compete with DS and PSP, and it has done so, picking up huge swaths of market share and revenue.

You can apply personal definitions, but by any objective metric I can think of, iOS is a gaming platform (not limited to gaming mind you).
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
I don't know I'd go as far as saying it's a gaming device. What I was trying to say in my previous posts is.. While the hardware can play intense games the whole touch screen aspect of playing really sucks ass. Most the time my fingers are wondering off course and I find myself fighting to find things. That's because touch screens don't offer any sort of tactile feedback. I think hell will freeze over before Sony or Nintendo releases a touch screen PSP or DS

Phones have the hardware, but they are trying to make them be something they are not. That's why I have a lot of trouble playing intense games. Phones are great gaming devices, but I think there's a limit to what they should play.

Phones are great for games like:
Angry birds
Orbital
Wordfeud
SpeedX
etc.

Simple, yet fun and addicting games.
I think the Sony phone with dedicated controls is going to go a long way towards changing things.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:42 PM   #44
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I think the Sony phone with dedicated controls is going to go a long way towards changing things.
Yes, that's what I am trying to say. No phone at the moment is specifically designed for gaming, they are just devices that happen to have hardware that can play graphically intense games really well.

When I say gaming I'm not talking about leisurely paper toss type game. I'm talking about games like that new ID game on the iPhone. Stuff like that.

If that Sony phone actually turns out to be as good as a PSP...

Last edited by shoman24v : Dec 27, 2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:48 PM   #45
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I disagree with every ounce of my gamer being. I have no problem at all playing all sorts of games on my phone. It was weird at first, but I got used to it just like I had to do with any other controller or control style.

I had a feeling why you weren't letting yourself get into gaming on your smartphone. It is just arbitrary personal prejudice, and a desire to not acknowledge iOS as a gaming platform.

You can try to make personal definitions about what makes something a gaming device or not, but the fact of the matter is, people play games on iOS in DROVES. Gaming on iOS is a huge industry now, Apple positioned iOS to compete with DS and PSP, and it has done so, picking up huge swaths of market share and revenue.

You can apply personal definitions, but by any objective metric I can think of, iOS is a gaming platform (not limited to gaming mind you).
If Apple positioned iOS against the DS and PSP, I don't think it will be successful. The market for gamers on DS and PSP is pretty much cut and clear, you won't see the type of games for DSP/PSP on the iPhone. There's only so much you can do with just a touch screen. Have you tried playing a Mario or platform clone with a touch screen display? The controls are horrible. Now, maybe if Apple included a built in keyboard for the iPhone 5, then that would definitely change things.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:53 PM   #46
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If Apple positioned iOS against the DS and PSP, I don't think it will be successful. The market for gamers on DS and PSP are pretty much cut and clear, you won't see the type of games for DSP/PSP on the iPhone. There's only so much you can do with just a touch screen. Now, maybe if Apple included a built in keyboard for the iPhone 5, then that would definitely change things.
This just seems to be based on your prejudice against iOS as a gaming platform. Try doing some research on how iOS has affected traditional handheld gaming and you will see why Sony and Nintendo are nervous enough to start badmouthing the platform in their commercials. Well, Sony anyway.

Physical buttons are not the end all definition of a gaming device. Only your personal definition. I don't miss them and I don't want the added bulk and noise of them.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:57 PM   #47
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This just seems to be based on your prejudice against iOS as a gaming platform. Try doing some research on how iOS has affected traditional handheld gaming and you will see why Sony and Nintendo are nervous enough to start badmouthing the platform in their commercials. Well, Sony anyway.

Physical buttons are not the end all definition of a gaming device. Only your personal definition. I don't miss them and I don't want the added bulk and noise of them.
You mean like this commercial?

http://www.techi.com/2010/08/sony-la...latest-psp-ad/



I think physical buttons is more than just a matter of preference. It's pretty much required for any platform game, along with analog controls.
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Originally Posted by Jay20016
But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:02 PM   #48
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You mean like this commercial?

http://www.techi.com/2010/08/sony-la...latest-psp-ad/



I think physical buttons is more than just a matter of preference. It's pretty much required for any platform game, along with analog controls.
No it isn't, I play those games all of the time without physical buttons, and I'm quite adept. I enjoyed the hell our of Sonic 4, canabalt and mirrors edge just recently in fact and they were a joy to play.

I do so much gaming on my iPhones that I am just used to the control styles. Its not like it is that difficult. I absolutely love how it is completely silent to play and I don't have to worry about moving parts at all.

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:04 PM   #49
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No it isn't, I play those games all of the time without physical buttons, and I'm quite adept. I enjoyed the hell our of Sonic 4, canabalt and mirrors edge just recently in fact and they were a joy to play.

I do so much gaming on my iPhones that I am just used to the control styles. Its not like it is that difficult.
You are an exception. You are defending Apple too much.

I wanted to get into SNES games on my Incredible but the on screen controls are HORRIBLE. Guess that's why you can hook up Wii Controller.

I'm guessing you like to type on a computer keyboard without physical keys

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:12 PM   #50
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No it isn't, I play those games all of the time without physical buttons, and I'm quite adept. I enjoyed the hell our of Sonic 4, canabalt and mirrors edge just recently in fact and they were a joy to play.

I do so much gaming on my iPhones that I am just used to the control styles. Its not like it is that difficult. I absolutely love how it is completely silent to play and I don't have to worry about moving parts at all.
You need to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=humGcooBB30



Just like shoman, I have a NES/SNES emulator that just plain sucks to use on a touch screen. You'll never have the same feel/reaction as a dedicated set of buttons.
__________________
Originally Posted by Jay20016
But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:24 PM   #51
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You'll never have the same feel/reaction


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IOt19iOED0

that one is great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqQBKGaU9AI&NR=1

And that one LOL

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 02:47 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by pahncrd View Post
No it isn't, I play those games all of the time without physical buttons, and I'm quite adept. I enjoyed the hell our of Sonic 4, canabalt and mirrors edge just recently in fact and they were a joy to play.

I do so much gaming on my iPhones that I am just used to the control styles. Its not like it is that difficult. I absolutely love how it is completely silent to play and I don't have to worry about moving parts at all.
I still don't really like it on my Droid X... Zenonia is really the only exception, I had it on my Droid and it's always been touch only... But it's so frustrating, a lot of the time I won't hit the right button for the magic I want to use or I'll accidentally hit the button to change from magic to items since it's literally RIGHT NEXT TO the attack button... I'll also mess up using the d-pad because there is no tactile feedback and I'm too busy paying attention to other things, it's just frustrating. On screen controls are crap.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:24 PM   #53
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You are an exception. You are defending Apple too much.

I wanted to get into SNES games on my Incredible but the on screen controls are HORRIBLE. Guess that's why you can hook up Wii Controller.

I'm guessing you like to type on a computer keyboard without physical keys
It has nothing to do with just Apple. It goes for any smartphone.

I was skeptical at first, but I have come to enjoy the advantages to not having the bulk, noise and moving parts that comes with physical buttons.

Try playing mirrors edge sometime, that game is great on touchscreen, along with plenty of others that weren't built around 20 year old controller.

Also, yeah, I find it to be easier to type on an onscreen keyboard now that I am used to it. On a touchscreen keyboard it types wherever the center of my thumb is, so it doesn't matter if I touch multiple keys, and on a physical keyboard I have to type with my thumbnails so that I don't depress keys around the character I am actually trying to push. Not to mention the extra bulk, noise and moving parts that a physical keyboard brings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
You need to watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=humGcooBB30



Just like shoman, I have a NES/SNES emulator that just plain sucks to use on a touch screen. You'll never have the same feel/reaction as a dedicated set of buttons.
Yeah, that's because those games are made fir snes/nes controllers. So the new arbitrary metric for a gaming handheld is that it must emulate snes games well?


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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I still don't really like it on my Droid X... Zenonia is really the only exception, I had it on my Droid and it's always been touch only... But it's so frustrating, a lot of the time I won't hit the right button for the magic I want to use or I'll accidentally hit the button to change from magic to items since it's literally RIGHT NEXT TO the attack button... I'll also mess up using the d-pad because there is no tactile feedback and I'm too busy paying attention to other things, it's just frustrating. On screen controls are crap.
No, those on screen controls are bad. Even so, you are still playing it.

However, the argument isn't necessarily whether physical buttons make it easier for you to play or not, but rather whether the arbitrary metric of requiring physical buttons is what denotes whether something is a gaming platform or not.

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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by pahncrd View Post
It has nothing to do with just Apple. It goes for any smartphone.

I was skeptical at first, but I have come to enjoy the advantages to not having the bulk, noise and moving parts that comes with physical buttons.

Try playing mirrors edge sometime, that game is great on touchscreen, along with plenty of others that weren't built around 20 year old controller.

Also, yeah, I find it to be easier to type on an onscreen keyboard now that I am used to it. On a touchscreen keyboard it types wherever the center of my thumb is, so it doesn't matter if I touch multiple keys, and on a physical keyboard I have to type with my thumbnails so that I don't depress keys around the character I am actually trying to push. Not to mention the extra bulk, noise and moving parts that a physical keyboard brings.




Yeah, that's because those games are made fir snes/nes controllers. So the new arbitrary metric for a gaming handheld is that it must emulate snes games well?




No, those on screen controls are bad. Even so, you are still playing it.

However, the argument isn't necessarily whether physical buttons make it easier for you to play or not, but rather whether the arbitrary metric of requiring physical buttons is what denotes whether something is a gaming platform or not.
It's still frustrating and I'd take actual controls any day of the week.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:43 PM   #55
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Amen, besides we're straying off topic.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:51 PM   #56
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It's still frustrating and I'd take actual controls any day of the week.
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Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
Amen, besides we're straying off topic.
Perhaps you would, but that doesn't really matter in the context of the debate.

Just like I would enjoy having keyboard and mouse controls on my PSP and I find the analog nubbin to be painful to use, that still doesn't keep the PSP from being a gaming platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
Amen, besides we're straying off topic.
The topic didn't seem all that strong to begin with, so I am sure that is why it shifted.

In any case, I don't know what else there is to say about it. If Android is seeing more and better gaming, then I am all for it. Hopefully the trend stays strong, as smartphone gaming is where so many of the interesting things are happening in the mobile gaming space.
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Old Dec 28, 2010, 12:29 AM   #57
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Look, you don't seem to get it. Certain developers have SPECIFICALLY stated the reason for moving away from the PC as a development platform is because of piracy. Here are some quotes:
Those are vague, political statements, if anything. Even Epic CEO Mike Capps states "it boils down to profits and that the money is in the console business -- as simple as that".

Cevat Yerli states, "We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe that’s the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy. To the degree PC Gamers that pirate games inherently destroy the platform. Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore."

Really? How did he measure piracy? How does he know piracy destroyed sales for crysis instead of it being a bland tech demo that required bleeding edge hardware to run? The move to restricted hardware certainly resolves that issue in future Crysis development, and as I said, piracy on console platforms exists just as well. So tell me, what is the logical reason to move from one to the other? Piracy or economics?

Quote:
Now you're applying circular logic. Who disputed PC games was less than console sales? I obviously corrected you on your ignorance concerning digital downloads and you come back to say "still, pc games are less than console sales", which had absolutely nothing to do with the original argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed
Besides, PC gaming is quite strong these days...more PC games are sold (retail or digital download) than any single console
I'm saying your argument that DD makes a difference is invalid.

Quote:
Now answer me this. How many households do you know have ALL consoles...PS3, Xbox 360, and a Wii? Because that's what PC games are compared against, ALL consoles lumped into one. Now, when PC games are compared against INDIVIDUAL consoles, suddenly PC gamers are right up there with PS3 and Xbox 360.
No, they're NOT. Using CoD BO, PC sold less than a million. Even if you claim that's only retail sales figures, multiply it by 2 if you believe the total sales are 50% retail and 50% DD, and you still end up with 2M units sold. PS3 and 360 sold 7M and 9M units respectively, which is around 4x as much as PC.

You can find similar trends for 90% of current crossplatform titles, PC sales are always dwarfed by either PS3 or 360 sales. This is nothing new and I have no idea why you would even argue against it.

Quote:
PC gaming isn't a "niche" market. The fact you're on this website should make that clear to you. ATI and Nvidia depend on PC gamers. Consoles FOLLOW wherever PC gaming goes. Stereoscopic 3D gaming, GPU physics, etc...
PC gaming IS a niche market, outside of WoW, SIMS, and other casual gaming, it's pretty small. I'm sorry you take offense to that but it's been the case for a few years now.

Quote:
Developers that chose to remain on the PC platform are doing fine, save a handful that had poor business practices in the first place. CAPCOM is an example of a primary console developer that now ensures their top tier games come out for PC as well, and with PC specific optimizations (like Lost Planet 2).
Porting to PC has always been a common cash grab for console developers. However, the end result is typically sloppy and doesn't do service to PC gamers in general. I don't think Capcom did anything special for LP2, as it's a not a really a great product to start with anyhow.

It's great that DX11 hardware can do tessellation and slightly better graphics in titles like AvP, but is that really going to sell your games any better? Not likely.

Quote:
Have you been keeping up on this website? A typical midrange system blows any console out of the water. ATI and Nvidia releases graphic cards for the masses, prices are astoundingly affordable for powerful video cards compared to 5 years ago. Same for CPU's. Again I ask you, what are you doing here on this website if you're somehow oblivious to this?
You can again stop assuming to know what I do or do not understand, it just makes you look ignorant, not me. I've never disputed that PC hardware is superior to console technology, current gen is 5 years old -duh. The point is that developers are seeing the benefits of adhering to limited hardware set and still creating profitable gaming experiences. And the more casual gaming gets, the less horsepower you need.

Quote:
How many of those people primarily use the iphone for GAMING? Yeah, I thought so. That's why there are no complex games available, because it's not considered a true gaming device. Gaming is casual, like its always been since the first cellphones with snake/tetris a decade ago, especially with a touchscreen only device with no type of analog/digital controller. Besides, that kind of logic is flawed in the first place...it would be no different than me coming back with something similar like "Billions of PC Gamers beg to differ."
So your assumption is that if the games are casual, a device can't be considered a true gaming device? Better tell the millions who own a wii (the best selling console and overall market btw).

Right now, the only real game in town (pun intended) is on iOS. The most "complex" games to be found on Android so far are typically ports of games already released on iOS. What does that tell you?

Quote:
You've successfully contradicted yourself here. You want to consider the iPhone a serious gaming device, yet acknowledge only "casual" games (like Angry Birds) as the most profitable? Umm....why don't you compare iPhone games to PSP or Nintendo DS games sold. You might wake up from this dreamland of yours.
You have some strange notion of what a "serious" gaming device should be. I don't think I've ever said anything about that, merely that the iPhone is a legitimate gaming device if you judge by the number of people playing games and by the business generated by its market.

Want to compare it to PSP?

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PSP-iPho...news-6222.html

iPhone has already surpassed PSP's market as of Jan 2010. I guess we still can't consider it a serious handheld gaming platform huh?

Quote:
EDIT: Zero are you a PC Gamer or a console gamer? Somehow you've managed to turn this into a PC Gaming vs Console discussion. There's another forum for that if you want to continue this particular aspect.
Sorry you don't seem to be getting the parallel, I don't really know how to dumb it down any further for you. We're talking about the impact of hardware fragmentation and how it affects industry trends. What other similar industry do you know where this has happened? If you can't grasp that, feel free to stay out of the thread.
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Old Dec 28, 2010, 12:58 AM   #58
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Perhaps you would, but that doesn't really matter in the context of the debate.

Just like I would enjoy having keyboard and mouse controls on my PSP and I find the analog nubbin to be painful to use, that still doesn't keep the PSP from being a gaming platform.



The topic didn't seem all that strong to begin with, so I am sure that is why it shifted.

In any case, I don't know what else there is to say about it. If Android is seeing more and better gaming, then I am all for it. Hopefully the trend stays strong, as smartphone gaming is where so many of the interesting things are happening in the mobile gaming space.
It absolutely matters, as you can have gaming platforms without physical controls but there are always going to be BETTER platforms WITH physical controls.
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Old Dec 28, 2010, 01:05 AM   #59
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Oh what this thread has become, I left because I didnt want to exert the energy to type a post like zero did.

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Old Dec 28, 2010, 01:55 AM   #60
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It absolutely matters, as you can have gaming platforms without physical controls but there are always going to be BETTER platforms WITH physical controls.
Better for you, but that wasn't the debate I was having.

The debate was whether some arbitrary personal prejudice can objectively exclude an entire platform from being identified as a viable gaming platform. I think certainly not in the face of objective evidence to the contrary.

First there is the definition of what a gaming device is or isn't. I think most importantly the main definition that we can probably agree on is that it must have a lot of games and people must do a large amount of gaming on the platform. In addition, the device should have gaming as a major attraction for a reasonable portion of those who purchase the platform. Also, the platform should attract game developer attention beyond the occasional indie project, including large name developers. Also, the device is as it is identified and positioned via marketing.

Being that iOS has quite a few games, quite a few big name game developers, quite a few people buying iOS devices for gaming and is positioned by Apple (according to their marketing) to compete with DS and PSP market share at least partially, shows me that the iOS (and indeed possibly smartphones on the whole, much like PCs on the whole) is a legitimate platform for gaming.

Your personal dislike of a lack of physical buttons does not figure into that. It is just a personal preference, just like many don't play the 360 since they cannot use a kb/m. Doesn't make the 360 any less of a gaming platform, and many even enjoy the advantages that gamepads bring over kb/m combos, just like I prefer the advantages that not having physical buttons brings to me in the real world when I must consider my conspicuousness.

You can say all day that you don't like playing complex games on the 360, but that still doesn't exclude it from being a gaming platform.

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