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Old Sep 3, 2003, 11:47 AM   #1
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TheMonkeyBoyz
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Default Is anyone actually using a 7.1 sound setup yet?

I have a nice 4.1 setup that does Dolby decoding and takes the input from a 5.1 setup and produces a pretty realistic virtual center channel.

I thought the bomb would be a true 5.1 setup, but now they have 6.1 and 7.1.

I wondered what a 7.1 might look like and found a diagram here:

http://www.insidemacgames.com/featur...ID=200&Page=3#

I'm thinking - hey, that is very coold - but how realistic is it that we can have a real 7.1 setup at our computer?

I have two speakers in front of me (one on the left of the monitor, one on the right) and two speakers in back of me (again, one on the left and one on the right).

The two speakers fit nicely on the table in front of me and the cords for the back speaks are long enough so they go under my floor-mat and allow the rear speaks to sit on the top of the bookshelf behind me. Looks like this:

LF----------RF
-----CRT

------ME

LR----------RR

Works pretty swanky.

My question is, how the heck could you set up a 7.1 in a home office without tripping over things?

Is 7.1 really that rockin and worth all the potential hassles?

Am I missing something?

Thanks
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 12:02 PM   #2
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I do not know... I had trouble positioning my 5.1 setup. Since I have an open area(no book shelf or wall close enough) behind me, I had to go with:

LR-----------------------RR
------LF--CRT/C--RF-----

-------------ME

My center channel is located on top of my CRT monitor.
I have no idea how I could position 6.1 or 7.1 setup in my room...
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 12:10 PM   #3
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I have seen that you can buy those metal stands to put speaks behind and to the side of you, but man, what a mess. I don't know how I could do that without tripping over myself.

Before I had book shelves, I had mounted the two speakers on the wall behind me with screws into the sheetrock. It worked pretty well, since I could put the cords under the plastic floor mat thing.

I eventually got bookshelves and new speaks (Wanted to Dolby decoding) and the speaks now rest on the top of that bookshelf.

My home office is only like 9' 6" from the wall where my monitor is to the wall behind me. It's 11' 6" wide. In that space of width I have 3 computers side by side - works nifty.

Is it something that you could mount on the wall behind you at all?

I dig that Iiyama 454 Pro or whatever that has speaks built into the base of the monitor. That would be about the only way I could do the whole "true center channel" thing, as I already have this "organizer shelf" on top of my CRT.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 12:20 PM   #4
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Right now I have rear speakers mounted on the wall in front of me. The front speakers are standing on my computer desk. It works pretty well, but I'd prefer to have my rear speakers setup behind me. Sadly enough, my room is rather large and the closest wall is about 14' behind me. My Altec Lansing will not cover that much of area. Plus I'd have to run wires across my entire room. After X amount of beers these might lead to some broken bones in my body..
I was considering stands for some time, but came to conclusion that these would be too messy with wires running all over.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 01:40 PM   #5
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The front part of my speakers (FL, C, FR) are set up normally, but there is a very large space behind me. I got around this problem by hanging the two rear ones from the ceiling about a foot back from where I sit. It's not perfect, but it works.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 01:50 PM   #6
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AcidJazz, that is horrible how you have it setup! Please do yourself a favor and order these from Ratshack. I just got them and they are awesome for my z680s! They have 3 different mounts you can install, one of which is the Klipsch L mount which fit my z680 perfectly.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=40%2D2106
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 01:59 PM   #7
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Our Pioneer stereo system has 7.1 with full optical hookups, 6 full-size speakers at 100watts per channel and one sub (we're getting a second sub eventually, would that be 7.2?)

But almost nothing uses that setup yet. So, mostly we use it in 5.1 mode.

MY PC is just 2.1, that's good enough for me. My bro's 2 PC's are 4.1

I know a few people that would tell you that good quality stereo is all you need to image the sound around the room.......I heard it first hand. (the dude was heavily into Hawkwind) But not many people can afford to spend $20,000 on a sound room.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 02:03 PM   #8
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You can replace the 6-10 gauge cables with flat taped cables, so there is no tripping, though the sound quality I hear is inferior. You can also run the speakers from underneath carpet or under floor, but putting holes in your house must be fire protected or you can be liable.

There are no real advantages to 7.1, only very few titles are supported, let alone 6.1. Just get a centre speaker and/or sub with your current setup..
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 02:07 PM   #9
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Here's a good diagram that depicts 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 config.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 02:16 PM   #10
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Even with my 4.1 setup, I run things in STEREOx2 when I game. Works great. Simpler is better for a dweeb like me...
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 02:35 PM   #11
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At this current juncture in time, there is no real advantage to getting 7.1 compared to 6.1. The two extra rear speakers in 7.1 output the same sound as the one extra rear center speaker in 6.1. So basically, you're getting one more speaker for the center rear channel. 7.1 can be nice in a really big room where the extra speaker will help fill the room out more. It sounds to me like your home office is probably relatively small, Monkey. 6.1 should hold you fine in that setup.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 02:38 PM   #12
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Yeah, but we are actually buying this rather nice little Condo, so our money is not going to rent. I like it, small as it is. With just the 2 of us it is cozy.

Hey - how strange is it that there are only the two of us living here but there are 3 full-on computers in the home office (second room)?

I guess my priorities are out of whack!

I'm a sick little dude - need some kinda therapy or something... lol
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 03:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rayder
Our Pioneer stereo system has 7.1 with full optical hookups, 6 full-size speakers at 100watts per channel and one sub (we're getting a second sub eventually, would that be 7.2?)
No you wouldnt get 7.2 as there isn't (that I know of) an amp that has two seperate sub channels. Its bass anyway, not really directional. Although two good subs (e.g paradigm servo15's) will sound very good indeed. Oh if you have digital coaxial connections use them, they're theoretically better.

Quote:
But almost nothing uses that setup yet. So, mostly we use it in 5.1 mode.
A good amp is able to make its own matrix centre rear channels out of the 5.1 signal giving you false 7.1 which sounds pretty decent.

Quote:
MY PC is just 2.1, that's good enough for me. My bro's 2 PC's are 4.1
There is no 2.1, its known as 2.0 as there is no separate low frequency channel. The sub just picks up the lower frequecies but its not by way of a dedicated channel. This would just be stereo.

I know you didnt mention this but using the iiyama vm pro454's speakers as a centre would sound stupid as its only about 1-2watts so as well as not being tonally matched with your other speakers it would be drowned out by your other speakers and probably distort anyway. Fine for office use, avoid using in surround setups.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 03:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by dom_k
No you wouldnt get 7.2 as there isn't (that I know of) an amp that has two seperate sub channels. Its bass anyway, not really directional. Although two good subs (e.g paradigm servo15's) will sound very good indeed. Oh if you have digital coaxial connections use them, they're theoretically better.


A good amp is able to make its own matrix centre rear channels out of the 5.1 signal giving you false 7.1 which sounds pretty decent.


There is no 2.1, its known as 2.0 as there is no separate low frequency channel. The sub just picks up the lower frequecies but its not by way of a dedicated channel. This would just be stereo.

I know you didnt mention this but using the iiyama vm pro454's speakers as a centre would sound stupid as its only about 1-2watts so as well as not being tonally matched with your other speakers it would be drowned out by your other speakers and probably distort anyway. Fine for office use, avoid using in surround setups.
Wow, Mister Know it all - let me see where to begin...

First, over here in the good old USA, there do indeed appear to be systems defined as 2.1 - like at the KLIPSCH web site:

http://www.klipsch.com/product/produ...?line=promedia

On the 7.2 front, why yes does indeed to be 7.2's - one with a FRONT SUB and the other with a REAR SUB, or one with the LEFT SUB and the other with RIGHT SUB. Check this out on page 3 of the PDF:

http://www.alphadigitaltech.com/pdf_...stallation.pdf

Maybe spending some time doing some research would help you avoid looking like a n00b!
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 05:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by kilmar
AcidJazz, that is horrible how you have it setup! Please do yourself a favor and order these from Ratshack. I just got them and they are awesome for my z680s! They have 3 different mounts you can install, one of which is the Klipsch L mount which fit my z680 perfectly.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=40%2D2106
As I said I'm ready to sacrifice my listening experience for a wire-free space around me.
Plus, $60 USD stands cost the same as my whole budget Altec set...

I think I'll survive..
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 05:44 PM   #16
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Think of it this way man - if you crank up those speakers all
sitting in front of you, the rush of air from the movement of
the speaks will help keep the hair out of your eyes!

See? Silver Lining...

w00t!

Or, you could hire two neighborhood kids to hold the speakers
directly behind you and them get the heck out of your way
when you need to move about the room...

OR, you could look for some wireless speaks. Wow, that
would be cool...

You know what? All those fancy 5.1 setups and the like and
none of them can compare to a good pair of headphones, eh?

Enjoy what ya got while ya got it man!

Last edited by TheMonkeyBoyz : Sep 3, 2003 at 05:46 PM.
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 05:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheMonkeyBoyz
Think of it this way man - if you crank up those speakers all
sitting in front of you, the rush of air from the movement of
the speaks will help keep the hair out of your eyes!

See? Silver Lining...

w00t!

Or, you could hire two neighborhood kids to hold the speakers
directly behind you and them get the heck out of your way
when you need to move about the room...

OR, you could look for some wireless speaks. Wow, that
would be cool...

You know what? All those fancy 5.1 setups and the like and
none of them can compare to a good pair of headphones, eh?

Enjoy what ya got while ya got it man!
Lol, I better start growing my hair then...


Buy the way, Sennheiser HD-600 here...
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Old Sep 3, 2003, 08:40 PM   #18
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Wow that 7.2 setup is pretty cool. Do you know if the two subs output the exact same sound or do they actually get different signals (the idea of stereo subwoofers sounds funny)?

I thought it was funny that the PDF file has a warning that says they won't be held responsible for cracks in your foundation or broken china due to the subwoofer output.
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 04:39 AM   #19
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Default 7.1/7.2/6.2 etc etc

Just to clarify a few things.

There's no discrete software encoding for 7.1 surround sound. Any amplifiers, processors, preamps or anything else you care to think of are incorrectly stating this by amplifying the same discrete 6th channel, or by processing two centre-rear stereo channels from the 6.1 soundtrack (much in the same way that Pro Logic II processes centre and surround channels from the L/R Information).

There's also no such thing as 7.2. As there's certainately no software which caters for two LFE channels. Anything that uses this is simply diverting the .1 channel to two subwoofers, so it's the same sound coming out of both.

The same goes for 6.2.

There's also no such this as 2.1, as nothing codes for it. There's only 2.0, the low frequency range of which can be diverted to a subwoofer, but this isn't a discrete LFE channel.
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 06:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: 7.1/7.2/6.2 etc etc

Quote:
Originally posted by Dimmy
Just to clarify a few things.

There's no discrete software encoding for 7.1 surround sound. Any amplifiers, processors, preamps or anything else you care to think of are incorrectly stating this by amplifying the same discrete 6th channel, or by processing two centre-rear stereo channels from the 6.1 soundtrack (much in the same way that Pro Logic II processes centre and surround channels from the L/R Information).

There's also no such thing as 7.2. As there's certainately no software which caters for two LFE channels. Anything that uses this is simply diverting the .1 channel to two subwoofers, so it's the same sound coming out of both.

The same goes for 6.2.

There's also no such this as 2.1, as nothing codes for it. There's only 2.0, the low frequency range of which can be diverted to a subwoofer, but this isn't a discrete LFE channel.
Did you bother to read the info in the PDF file?

There are 2.1's, 6.2's and 7.2's. Didn't you see the diagram that showed the receiver with specific outputs for individual low frequency connections?

Instead of trying to act like you know more than the professionals who actually produce these products, why not take a bit of time to admit you don't know everything and do some research?

Why is it that you seem to think you know more than major industry players like Klipsch? I would think that they may have just a bit more credibility than you, no?

Get over yourself, will ya?

Last edited by TheMonkeyBoyz : Sep 4, 2003 at 06:46 AM.
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 09:20 AM   #21
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I've been living off of two crappy speakers and a worthless sub for years. Everything in my computer has upgraded except for my speakers.

I dunno, I just don't see what the big deal is. If I can run superfast at a high res with all the eyecandy on and just have enough sound to hear what I am playing, then that is good enough for me. I totally understand having surround sound (other then having the wires all over the room), but 7.1 surround sound? That's boarderline ridiculous.

If it is that big of a deal, why not just hook up an external receiver or Dolby Digital AC-3 amplifier via S/PDIF and just listen through home audio speakers that you probably already have?
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 10:30 AM   #22
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Nothing beyond 5.1 is being made now. There are a few things that take advantage of 6.1 and 7.1 but those are rare and usually suck.
For 6.1 and 7.1, movies just mix the left and right rear channels into the center speakers. (Dolby EX)

Im not audio expert... *cough* ... a 2.1 setup will not work with stereo music. It only works in games and movies that support the subwoofer. There are also special setups like the ones showed in other posts that enable 5.2, 6.2, and 7.2 but only special things created for that setup work on it.
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 10:44 AM   #23
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Hi:

I'm using a 7.1 capable receiver but just as 7.0. If your speaker array can handle it, you really don't need a sub. I don't.
TV:36" Sony FD Trinitron Wega XBR KV-36XBR400 NTSC
1080i/480p/480i
Receiver: Denon AVR-3802 7x110W DD/DTS ES/ DPL II
Speakers: Fronts - Cerwin-Vega! D-9 (4-8 ohm)
1 x 15"; 2 x 6”; 1 x 1"
Sensitivity 102dB (1W @1m)
Power Handling: 400W

Centre - Paradigm CC-200 (6 ohm)
2 x 5 1/2"; 1 x 3/4"
Sensitivity: 92dB (1W @1m)

Side Surrounds - Cerwin-Vega! E-Series2 E-712
1 x 12”; 1 x 5 Ľ”; dome tweeter.
Sensitivity 98dB (2.83V/ 1m)
Power Handling: 300W

Rear Surrounds - Cerwin-Vega! 26 (4-8 ohm)
1 x 12"; 1 x 2.5"
Sensitivity: 96dB (1W @1m)
DVD/CD Player: Denon DVD-2800 progressive scan DVD Player
VCRs: JVC HR-S5000U S-VHS
JVC HM-HDS1U HDD/S-VHS
DTH: Bell ExpressVu Model 6000 HDTV Receiver
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Computer: ATI Radeon 9700 Pro AGP video card
TerraTec DMX 6fire LT PCI sound card Optical S/PDIF OUT
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 10:48 AM   #24
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Maybe I might need my ears checked, but can you really notice a difference between a decent 5.1 setup and a 7.1 setup?

And I mean a noticable difference...
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 11:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Element1911
Nothing beyond 5.1 is being made now. There are a few things that take advantage of 6.1 and 7.1 but those are rare and usually suck.
For 6.1 and 7.1, movies just mix the left and right rear channels into the center speakers. (Dolby EX)

Im not audio expert... *cough* ... a 2.1 setup will not work with stereo music. It only works in games and movies that support the subwoofer. There are also special setups like the ones showed in other posts that enable 5.2, 6.2, and 7.2 but only special things created for that setup work on it.
Well, I'm not sure a 2.1 won't work with stereo music - because if you have a system that lets you set the crossover frequency and the % of blend between mid-range and bass, you can get some pretty cool sounding mixes. May not be designed for a dedicated LFE arrangement, but you can fake it pretty good...

I think 5.1 is pretty impressive - but I have seen some .2 setups in store displays and specially coded demos that really show you how cool things can be.

I sat down in one room where they had a 7.2 setup going - and the feeling of having the sub behind you really added some "umph" to things. When the planes flew from behind me to the front, wooshing past - man, the rumble from the back gradually transitioning to the front sub was unbelievable to behold. I was stunned. There were the two speaks behind me and two more speaks on the sides, two speaks and a center channel in front, along with a second sub.

I really didn't think I would notice much difference, but man, even those extra side speaks helped make the transition feel so incredible as it moved from front to back.

Another cool demo that they had setup looked like it was from that Starship Troopers movie. The bass from back to front was not as obvious, but the sound surrounding was very impressive, and I could feel the bass behind me at times bringing the scene some added "umph". Even if it was not specifically coded like the custom demo thing was, it still sounded very cool.

Hey, I'm not gonna pay for it and hookup a bazillion wires in my smallish condo, but man, it sure was cool...
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 12:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by curio
Maybe I might need my ears checked, but can you really notice a difference between a decent 5.1 setup and a 7.1 setup?

And I mean a noticable difference...
For gaming, I cheap out and just use STEREO X 2. I gave up on the full surround sound thing when A3D 2.0 went by the wayside.

Being surrounded by the sound is usually good enough for me, and there is not extra CPU/Frames Per Second hit that seems to occur with those 3D Sound implementations.

Just because I admire the technology does not mean I actually use it. Gaming is cool, and when I heard Half-Life for the first time with A3D, I was rocked! But over time the novelty was lost for me - kind of like Rumble Effects in game controllers.

I just have the 2 back speakers mirror what is on the front 2 and game until my ears hurt.

I do hear a HUGE diff when I play DVD's on my PC, but frankly, I'd rather watch DVD's on my TV with the built in stereo speakers. That way I don't freak out the neighbors and I can chill on the couch.

To each his/her own, ya know?

What does bug me is these people who act like they know EVERYTHING and anything that they don't agree with is wrong.

I mean, if the whole world recognizes 2.1 as a standard, and many places have 5.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1 and 7.2 implementations going - what more proof do they need?
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 04:16 PM   #27
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Monkeyboyz, the way I see it because you have a lot of posts doesnt mean you necessarily know more than others. Me and Dimmy have said something and you can contest it but there's no need to go raving on about some outputs on some weirdo amp. The fact is there is no REAL 7.2 or 2.1. Have you ever seen a dvd with dolby 2.1 or 7.2 compatible written on the side? People may have a 7.2 setup but it will only be 7.1 with two subs,or four, or eight!(it has the potential to sound better but still only from the same lfe channel). With "2.1" systems, there is no .1 channel. Manufacturers may sell these systems capable of it but there is nothing coded for 2.1. I have a stereo sub, sat setup but I would not class it as 2.1.
Before you go questioning other peoples knowledge perhaps you should know a little about them. I may well be a relative n00b in the world of hifi but my friend Dimmy is an obsessed audiophile who spends copius amounts of money on the stuff. He regularly undermines dealers questionable knowledge and provides very useful information on the av forums. Please don't go off on one on this here in the USA crap as hifi worldwide is pretty similar with new technologies being incorporated globally at the same time. Last of all, who the hell are klipsch? They may be well known in America but to me a product is only worthy if its worldwide. Thx certified! bah, thx will market any crud if the people pay them enough.
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Old Sep 4, 2003, 06:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by dom_k
Monkeyboyz, the way I see it because you have a lot of posts doesnt mean you necessarily know more than others.

Last of all, who the hell are klipsch? They may be well known in America but to me a product is only worthy if its worldwide.

Thx certified! bah, thx will market any crud if the people pay them enough.
First, I do know a ton because I'm 35 years old and have a great deal of experience with Audio as well.

Second, how come we are able to come up with a ton of good information on a GOOGLE search that totally contradicts your assertions?

Third, Klipsch is well known world-wide - the fact that you don't know who they are shows your lack of knowledge.

Fourth, I don't believe I said anything about THX certified. That said, there are stringent requirements for achieving THX certification - your conspiracy theory not withstanding.

Keep talking - you are demonstrating your own ignorance.

In an effort to help you become educated, try reading some of these links.

First, here is a snippet from the following article on FiringSquad:

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/guides...annelsoftware/

A bit on 2.1...

The only way you can get a discrete subwoofer signal with this setup is with Multichannel Super Audio CD, DTS audio, DVD audio, or Dolby Digital signals downsampled to 2.1 audio. There are a few sources that are written specifically for 2.1 audio, but you will need to have the decoding hardware necessary for at least 5.1 audio to use 2.1 audio. Basically, if you have the equipment to support 2.1 audio with a discrete subwoofer channel, you have the equipment needed for a 5.1 system.


A BIT ON the future - Lucas developing 10.2 systems...

The future
There are reports that deep in the Lucas ranch, there are prototypes of 10.2 systems. The extra channels include dual subwoofers, front effects channels and a height channel. I say, the more speakers the merrier. No reports yet on how close to production or mainstream this technology is, but don’t be surprised if it isn’t introduced with one of the new Star Wars films.




A little bit of 2.1 talk on Sony products:

http://www.sony-middleeast.com/about...?Article_Id=44

A little bit on Dolby Pro Logic:

http://www.vpkom.com/hifi/history/prologichistory.html

A little bit about Dolby 5.1, 2.1, etc:

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dolbydts/dolby51.htm

Just for fun - a product listing of Creative 2.1 speaks:

http://www.creaf.com/speakers/config/2.1/


I'll try to say this respectfully to put and end to the debate:

Please, do your research before you engage in this type of discussion. It's not like I'm trying to make you look like a fool. All I am doing is showing obvious examples indicating that you are in fact wrong. Look into things, accept it and move on.

It's not worth wasting forum space discussions your assertions when they are so obviously incorrect.
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Old Sep 5, 2003, 06:42 PM   #29
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I think one is talking about encoded channels, and the other is talking about physical channels. Both can be right, you know. I don't think there is an actual LFE channel below 5.1 surround sound, so anything below just uses the ".1" as a physical indicator of some piece of equipment that is designated to the lower frequencies or "sub" frequencies. It is more like a trend now to assign a ".1" to sets that are below 5.1 because it appeals to the consumer martket. This is how I see it. I am not trying to correct the views of others.

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Old Sep 5, 2003, 09:02 PM   #30
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been using a 7.1 setup for many years for home theatre
if properly setup with quality gear its an amazing experience
for pannings - flybys, ambient etc
there are no commercial 7.1 recordings currently available
the additional 2 channels are basically software manipulation
however with high end procesors ( I use Lexicon)the effect
is awesome.
Its a bit overkill for pc however if you have the
room go or it .
havent done much gaming on my main home theater rig
however I do rent the x box occasionally and Dolby Digitial
sound really adds to experience.
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