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Old Aug 13, 2016, 11:58 AM   #1
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badsykes
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Default Nvidia Volta teased 3 high end models

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Old Aug 13, 2016, 06:50 PM   #2
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I wonder why the sudden rush? I don't remember card releases being teased or released this quickly in the last 5 years...

What's coming that needs so much graphics powerhousing so quickly?
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Old Aug 13, 2016, 06:54 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
I wonder why the sudden rush? I don't remember card releases being teased or released this quickly in the last 5 years...

What's coming that needs so much graphics powerhousing so quickly?
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Old Aug 13, 2016, 07:21 PM   #4
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Clickbait anyone?

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Old Aug 13, 2016, 07:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
I wonder why the sudden rush? I don't remember card releases being teased or released this quickly in the last 5 years...

What's coming that needs so much graphics powerhousing so quickly?
they know Hap will buy a new card every month if it nv and a new top card
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Old Aug 13, 2016, 07:48 PM   #6
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they know Hap will buy a new card every month if it nv and a new top card
Jen just calls me up when he has something new too sell. That's why this is click bait because I haven't heard from him yet. Don't expect to till around April.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 11:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
I wonder why the sudden rush? I don't remember card releases being teased or released this quickly in the last 5 years...

What's coming that needs so much graphics powerhousing so quickly?


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Old Aug 14, 2016, 12:08 PM   #8
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In terms of graphics cards, Vega is a brown dwarf compared to Nvidia's quasars.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 01:58 PM   #9
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Nah, Vega is a small asteroid or meteor, Pascal is a giant star, and Volta is a blue supergiant star.

Naturally, Einstein will be a supermassive black hole. Nothing will survive crossing it's event horizon, not even AMD.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 05:21 PM   #10
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I think AMD was indicating Vega will be the big update, whole line of cards. 2017 5xx series and hopefully something decent on the high end. Pascal is it for this year with a big (hopefully successful) Zen launch remaining.

Nvidia probably already knows the storm coming as well. They have the bucks to push up Volta as backup. Node change is complete, time to have some fun with it. I expect Volta to be out next year depending upon Vega performance when. Could be June-December. AMD if they have a great chip they need to make enough cards for that small window of opportunity. What is holding them back even now with Polaris is their production rate. Also AMD timing is off, you need to get the big stuff out around September for the Christmas buying season and not afterwards when many folks are broke.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 05:31 PM   #11
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Volta was reportedly pushed up to as early as May, so we could absolutely see cards by June. That would be impressive..

I'm hoping Vega is a beast.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 07:24 PM   #12
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It kind of makes sense since Pascal seems to have mostly just been a die shrink of Maxwell. Nvidia is almost employing the Intel tick-tock strategy.

That being said, when are we going to see cards to fill out the lower end, and laptop GPU segments? We're not seeing anything there at all. The 860M is over two years old.
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Old Aug 14, 2016, 08:53 PM   #13
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Volta has not been "pushed up", Nvidia has a commitment to deliver Volta in 2017 to fulfill a supercomputer contract.

When Nvidia delivers Volta to consumers is the matter of discussion. If Vega is not even competitive with the 1070, 1080, and new Titan X, they can delay as long as they feel like it to keep enjoying Pascal sales.

The 1060M is supposedly coming out later this year, in addition to the 1070M and 1080M which will refresh Nvidia's laptop GPU line from top to bottom.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 09:21 AM   #14
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I think AMD was indicating Vega will be the big update, whole line of cards. 2017 5xx series and hopefully something decent on the high end. Pascal is it for this year with a big (hopefully successful) Zen launch remaining.

Nvidia probably already knows the storm coming as well. They have the bucks to push up Volta as backup. Node change is complete, time to have some fun with it. I expect Volta to be out next year depending upon Vega performance when. Could be June-December. AMD if they have a great chip they need to make enough cards for that small window of opportunity. What is holding them back even now with Polaris is their production rate. Also AMD timing is off, you need to get the big stuff out around September for the Christmas buying season and not afterwards when many folks are broke.
Yeah, I'm sure NV is shaking in their boots, pushing forward Volta to compete with the non-existent Vega. Remind me again which graphics card company currently is the market leader? Who has the fastest graphics card right now?
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 11:35 AM   #15
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So Vega will compete with the 1070?
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 02:25 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Yeah, I'm sure NV is shaking in their boots, pushing forward Volta to compete with the non-existent Vega. Remind me again which graphics card company currently is the market leader? Who has the fastest graphics card right now?
That all sounds familiar doesn't it? Sounds like Nokia and Blackberry about Apple and Sony about Microsoft. Look how that all turned out!

AMD have stated all along and they've never wavered that Polaris is for the mainstream this year and Vega is for the enthusiasts next year. What's hard to understand about that? In response Nvidia has released Pascal which is basically a die shrunk Maxwell on steroids with better colour compression. Good luck to them, strike while the iron's hot.

Despite all the fan boys I think (ergo I don't know and my understanding only) HBM2 could be a game changer and potentially Nvidia are behind the curve and therefore they're trying to maximise Pascal sales whilst they can. Why else would you release a Titan X when the 1080/1070 already dominate in that segment. You do it because you think/know time is of an essence and you want to maximise sales while you can. Pure conjecture on my part of course.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 06:51 PM   #17
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That all sounds familiar doesn't it? Sounds like Nokia and Blackberry about Apple and Sony about Microsoft. Look how that all turned out!

AMD have stated all along and they've never wavered that Polaris is for the mainstream this year and Vega is for the enthusiasts next year. What's hard to understand about that? In response Nvidia has released Pascal which is basically a die shrunk Maxwell on steroids with better colour compression. Good luck to them, strike while the iron's hot.

Despite all the fan boys I think (ergo I don't know and my understanding only) HBM2 could be a game changer and potentially Nvidia are behind the curve and therefore they're trying to maximise Pascal sales whilst they can. Why else would you release a Titan X when the 1080/1070 already dominate in that segment. You do it because you think/know time is of an essence and you want to maximise sales while you can. Pure conjecture on my part of course.
If memory bandwidth were what is needed to bring graphics performance to the next level then
a) don't you think NV would include HBM2 on their flagship 2016 part?
b) why does Fury suck so bad with all that bandwidth?
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 08:24 PM   #18
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If memory bandwidth were what is needed to bring graphics performance to the next level then
a) don't you think NV would include HBM2 on their flagship 2016 part?
b) why does Fury suck so bad with all that bandwidth?
A) Too expensive still.

B) Fury actually is pretty impressive in DX12 and Vulkan. It's on par with the 1070 in that case. I think AMD's architecture really has not been being leveraged to the full extent. However the answer is also that I don't think Fury was beefy enough to take advantage of all that bandwidth. That will change with more powerful chips.
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Old Aug 15, 2016, 10:34 PM   #19
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The New Titan X uses GDDR5X because quite frankly, it doesn't need the bandwidth of HBM2 for it's intended consumer applications. This is the straight-up truth.

Let's see what happens when Vega comes out and tries to keep up with the New Titan X and GDDR5X with expensive low-yield HBM2 next year.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 07:08 AM   #20
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A) Too expensive still.

B) Fury actually is pretty impressive in DX12 and Vulkan. It's on par with the 1070 in that case. I think AMD's architecture really has not been being leveraged to the full extent. However the answer is also that I don't think Fury was beefy enough to take advantage of all that bandwidth. That will change with more powerful chips.
So a card that launched at $650 with 4096 SPs and twice the bandwidth of a $450 card and sometimes matches it is "impressive" to you? If Fury taught us anything it is that bandwidth is not the limiting factor in graphics today.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 07:37 AM   #21
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So a card that launched at $650 with 4096 SPs and twice the bandwidth of a $450 card and sometimes matches it is "impressive" to you? If Fury taught us anything it is that bandwidth is not the limiting factor in graphics today.
Yeah it's impressive when the Fury has been on the market for over a year and it's competing with a generation of cards that came out after it .. That's not a very difficult concept to comprehend.

It's not what Fury taught us. It's what DX12 has taught us thus far. AMDs drivers for DX11 were the limiting factor and their driver team is subpar at best. Now that the optimizations and driver shenanigans that NV has mastered don't matter as much anymore, you're seeing AMD cards get a nice boost.

I can't believe you're trying to compare Fury to the 1070 apples to apples when the Fury has been out for over a year and the 1070 hit the market mid 2016. Nice try though.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 07:57 AM   #22
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If Fury taught us anything it is that bandwidth is not the limiting factor in graphics today.
No, it taught you that with those drivers and the applications of the time bandwidth wasn't a limiting factor.

Drivers got out of the way; card improves in performance.

Without more analysis of the applications pin pointing the bottle neck at this point isn't possible - could be bandwidth, could be ALU, could still be front end command limited. For all we know the ALU could now be stalling due to waiting on memory requests.

More bandwidth is always good; lower latency is also nice.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 09:10 AM   #23
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So soon... let us get to the 1080ti first.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 10:25 AM   #24
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No, it taught you that with those drivers and the applications of the time bandwidth wasn't a limiting factor.

Drivers got out of the way; card improves in performance.

Without more analysis of the applications pin pointing the bottle neck at this point isn't possible - could be bandwidth, could be ALU, could still be front end command limited. For all we know the ALU could now be stalling due to waiting on memory requests.

More bandwidth is always good; lower latency is also nice.
Graphics workloads are not always compute-bound, and you know this. It is clear from a number of analyses that took place post-Fury launch that this is the case. See: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=34022743 for example. Triangle throughput, cache hit rates, texture fetch rates, pixel fill rates, etc, etc, etc. all play a part in the graphics rendering pipeline, and these are some of the many reasons why NV's better-balanced architectures of the time out-performed the Fury in most workloads of the day.

Do we need more bandwidth than what is currently available for the graphics cards that are out now? No, demonstrably, empirically, emphatically. A simple overclock of RAM and GPU (individually) on any given graphics card of the day demonstrates this. OC the RAM by 10%, get 2-3% more performance. OC the GPU by 10%, get close to 10% more performance. Therefore, HBM2 is not a major benefit at this time.

Last edited by ShaidarHaran : Aug 16, 2016 at 10:30 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 11:25 AM   #25
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And I never claimed it was 'always' anything?
I mean.. feel free to find an 'always' in that quote... I'll wait.

(I'd write more, but I'm sure you'd try to misquote/misrepresent that and I've got **** to do with my evening...)
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 12:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
And I never claimed it was 'always' anything?
I mean.. feel free to find an 'always' in that quote... I'll wait.

(I'd write more, but I'm sure you'd try to misquote/misrepresent that and I've got **** to do with my evening...)
Let me state it a different way.

Bandwidth needs increase with resolution. As resolution scales, time spent on compute increases compared to other stages of the rendering pipeline (take triangle setup, for example). This is why Fury cards did better @ higher resolutions, relatively (compared to the contemporary competition). My point is, not all workloads can be summed up as:
1) benefits from more compute
2) benefits from more bandwidth

I'm not trying to argue with you or belittle you, my initial comment was meant to indicate I know you understand this topic.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 12:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by OzzieBloke View Post
I wonder why the sudden rush? I don't remember card releases being teased or released this quickly in the last 5 years...

What's coming that needs so much graphics powerhousing so quickly?
Big data and machine learning. The GP100 even has half or mixed precision compute operations specifically designed for this purpose.

http://www.nextplatform.com/2015/03/...learning-push/

NVIDIA is targeting the HPC world, especially for the push towards Exascale computing. They want to be the premier provider of cards for the next generation exa-FLOP machines.
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Old Aug 16, 2016, 05:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
If memory bandwidth were what is needed to bring graphics performance to the next level then
a) don't you think NV would include HBM2 on their flagship 2016 part?
b) why does Fury suck so bad with all that bandwidth?
They did with the P100. That's where Volta will also be going. Pascal is a stop gap because they can't get enough HBM2. Look at their road map. Where is GDDR5x in 2017 in the high end. No where.
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Old Aug 17, 2016, 12:12 PM   #29
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They did with the P100. That's where Volta will also be going. Pascal is a stop gap because they can't get enough HBM2. Look at their road map. Where is GDDR5x in 2017 in the high end. No where.
Your supposition is without merit.

P100 has HBM2 because of the use cases for P100 which are far more bandwidth-constricted than graphics workloads which are mixed. Games require numerous and various graphics card resources to render scenes, many of those resources are not stored in the local frame buffer in order to save bandwidth. This is why we have things like texture caches (and other types) on GPUs.
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Old Aug 17, 2016, 04:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
Your supposition is without merit.

P100 has HBM2 because of the use cases for P100 which are far more bandwidth-constricted than graphics workloads which are mixed. Games require numerous and various graphics card resources to render scenes, many of those resources are not stored in the local frame buffer in order to save bandwidth. This is why we have things like texture caches (and other types) on GPUs.
I would argue that your supposition that HBM2 is not needed is also without merit. It's as clear as the nose on your face that both NV and AMD are moving to HBM2. They've both admitted it in the GPU road maps. Pascal was always slated by NV to be released with HBM2. Remember the boast of 3x the memory bandwidth of Maxwell? So if the extra bandwidth isn't required why are they doing it?

Don't get me wrong I think 1070/1080 are brilliant cards but they are not the cards NV was hoping to release. As a company Nvidia are far more inventive than AMD and when they saw a supply issue with HBM2 rather than delay their cards they worked closely with Micron on GDDR5X and were then able to release the 1080 which is quite impressive.

Conversely, as everyone knows, the Fury line-up was supposed to launch on 20nm but eventually AMD had to scrap that and write off millions in their accounts. So when the Fury lineup did finally launch on the old 28nm all Nvidia had to do was launch the 980ti as they knew they had the upper hand with Maxwell's better efficiency. That's why the Fury X sucked on performance against the 980ti. The Fury Pro on the other hand easily beat the 980 so was more of a performer.

What's also interesting was a recent article I read (I'll try and find it again) stated that the Hawaii architecture which is over 3 years old is now easily beating it's NV counterparts and it wondered if this might be the case for the Fury lineup.
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