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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Mar 20, 2013, 09:30 AM   #1
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Default NVIDIA unveils Volta, their next-gen GPU capable of providing the GPU 1TB/sec of band

"Volta will arrive after Maxwell, and will provide GPUs with an insane amount of memory bandwidth. Volta-based GPUs will provide up to 1TB per second of bandwidth, made capable by stacking the DRAM on top of the GPU itself, with a silica substrate between them. Then, cutting a hole through the silicon and connecting each layer provides the ability for this insane level of bandwidth. Something Huang has said has the ability to shift "all of the data from a full Blu-Ray disc through the chip in 1/50th of a second."

Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/news/29204/...7EVMhp75kX7.99
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Old Mar 20, 2013, 11:49 PM   #2
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2016+ gunna be interesting
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Old Mar 20, 2013, 11:59 PM   #3
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My GTX TITAN should hold me over well till Volta.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 12:35 AM   #4
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My GTX TITAN should hold me over well till Volta.
Exactly what I was thinking. Pick up a 2nd maybe for a little reassurance in half a year.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 02:29 AM   #5
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My Titans will keep me well happy until Volta.
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Old Mar 21, 2013, 09:33 PM   #6
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Then new games way more demanding than Crysis 3 get released well before 2016 and everyone panics....
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 05:26 PM   #7
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'Volta' will probably be the last GPU nVidia will be able to sell as games have already almost reached photo-realism. Once games can't become more advanced
there will be no need for a new graphics card if yours gets 60+ average fps.

What are AMD and nVidia going to do then?
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 05:45 PM   #8
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^wtf???
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 05:56 PM   #9
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maybe photorelistic textures...but that's about it. crysis 3 is pretty and so is bf3 but far from photo realistic, many graphics compromises have been made in favor of performance. there will always be a need for faster and bigger gpu's as long as there is market for video games. hell just ray tracing would require gpu's way more powerfull then what we have now or in a couple of year to pull it off in a game realtime @ 60 fps, by then it will be 4K and we will be back at square 1 waiting for the next gpu to drop because we need more performance for the newest games.
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 06:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by True Christian View Post
'Volta' will probably be the last GPU nVidia will be able to sell as games have already almost reached photo-realism. Once games can't become more advanced
there will be no need for a new graphics card if yours gets 60+ average fps.

What are AMD and nVidia going to do then?
Possibly, RayTracing, GPU compute, GPU physics; to break the static chains of the past with dynamics, dynamics, dynamics.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 05:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by True Christian View Post
'Volta' will probably be the last GPU nVidia will be able to sell as games have already almost reached photo-realism. Once games can't become more advanced
there will be no need for a new graphics card if yours gets 60+ average fps.

What are AMD and nVidia going to do then?
What you just said is just... to be tactful, ignorant.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 06:27 PM   #12
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Does more bandwidth increase fill rate?

Besides AA what things could you do with 1TB/s thats not possible with lower bandwidth?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 07:09 PM   #13
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Besides AA what things could you do with 1TB/s thats not possible with lower bandwidth?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 08:36 PM   #14
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What you just said is just... to be tactful, ignorant.

Not necessarily to be honest, as the main obstacle is the cost of developing games which has steadily been going seriously up over the years as the capabilities of modern hardware improves....It basically takes huge teams and a lot of money and time to develop a triple A game these days, so only the established developers have the ability to do it.


Way back in the 90's, there were huge game hits and the company that developed the game had as little as 30~40 people working for it....Those days are long gone as now you add another 0 to the amount of people working on the project(yup, 300 to 400 people) and budgets that hit 100 million, which for that kind of money, you can make a movie and not just a game.


So with even more advanced effects compared to what we see in the latest games, the amount of work to make it happen also goes up and everything follows from that point onwards.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 08:44 PM   #15
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You can buy a 4K tv off of tiger direct for not much over $1000 now. I'm not even sure what it would take to get good performance at that res in a lot of games.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 03:04 AM   #16
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Does more bandwidth increase fill rate?

Besides AA what things could you do with 1TB/s thats not possible with lower bandwidth?
More of everything.
As bob pointed out in another thread, texture resolution is dependent on how much texture data you can shuffle from VRAM to GPU per frame.
And with more complex geometry, you have much more vertex data to send.
Then you have GPGPU stuff that´s probably going to be more common, where I suppose we might end up in some trouble since the new consoles may both end up having one Memory pool for CPU and GPU, so no PCI-E bus for sending back GPU simulation results to RAM for CPU to use and stuff like that I suppose.
Which Im assuming you have to do, to have GPU simulated physics affect stuff in the game.

And yes, I belive fillrate is dependant on bandwidth, as you´re moving data from GPU to memory as I understand it.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 06:59 AM   #17
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You can buy a 4K tv off of tiger direct for not much over $1000 now. I'm not even sure what it would take to get good performance at that res in a lot of games.
That chinese $1100 Seiki 4K TV only does 30hz @ 4K resolution, so no good for gaming
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 02:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Not necessarily to be honest, as the main obstacle is the cost of developing games which has steadily been going seriously up over the years as the capabilities of modern hardware improves....It basically takes huge teams and a lot of money and time to develop a triple A game these days, so only the established developers have the ability to do it.


Way back in the 90's, there were huge game hits and the company that developed the game had as little as 30~40 people working for it....Those days are long gone as now you add another 0 to the amount of people working on the project(yup, 300 to 400 people) and budgets that hit 100 million, which for that kind of money, you can make a movie and not just a game.


So with even more advanced effects compared to what we see in the latest games, the amount of work to make it happen also goes up and everything follows from that point onwards.
Except, that's not what he wrote.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 03:15 PM   #19
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That chinese $1100 Seiki 4K TV only does 30hz @ 4K resolution, so no good for gaming
Yeah, that sucks but thats only due to HDMI limitations. I would be willing to bet that we'll see some affordable decent 4K displays in the near future.
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Old Apr 17, 2013, 05:25 PM   #20
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yea let's hope so, hopefully the wait is not as long as the wait for 1080p/3d 300mhz hdmi chip TV, if we ever see them it will be a miracle, I pretty much gave up 3D gaming because the lack of big monitors/TV's that work with 3d vision and do 1080p
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 07:48 AM   #21
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Except, that's not what he wrote.

True, as he meant what's possible technically as the next big leap(s) forward, but as usual they come attached with a large price tag incorporating then into and if the past 15 years is any indication, given our preference for everything being more realistic looking, and current games like starcraft 2 having cost 100 million to develop( and it's just an RTS), future games should be shockingly expensive to make if we want even better looking games, with more interactivity, better physics, better storyline etc..


I don't see Volta kicking in the next few years mainly because the new consoles will be out this year, and they're basically closing the gap with existing PC hardware and I think it's a given that they'll be on the market for the usual 5~6 years just like the X360 and PS3 were, so Volta might be in full use in the next generation of consoles after this upcoming release for the PS4 and X720, meaning in 5~6 years from now so nothing to worry about anytime soon.
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 10:11 AM   #22
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Would probably help alot when playing 4k res with heavy aa/ssaa and gpu physics going on all at the same time
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Old Apr 18, 2013, 07:48 PM   #23
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Would probably help alot when playing 4k res with heavy aa/ssaa and gpu physics going on all at the same time

True, but that's end users adding a higher workload to further push the hardware closer to it's limits, while I was talking about potential effects that are created by the developers themselves as the reason for having even higher performance and feature support than we already have.


I have the feeling that developers will only take embedded dram and it's massive memory advantage seriously when all players have their version of it on their hardware, regardless if you prefer AMD or Nvidia, mainly to recover the money investment needed to use it for their new games, and it's easier to do that if all the major players support it, be it not only on PC's but also on consoles too, and the upcoming consoles don't support it AFAIK.


We've had support like Eyefinity and surround view or GPU physics where the routines are actually run by the GPU, but as long as it's only a single maker offering the feature, developers aren't embracing the tech ASAP and they wait for the other hardware vendors to support it, which usually involves having unified standards in place such as OpenCL or direct compute or direct X itself.


When was the last time we saw a developer use OpenGL for their new game?....Goes back several years to say the least..
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 10:31 AM   #24
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Unless Volta is for tablets or consoles, I don't see much impact from it if it isn't "mainstream" until 2016.

I'm a die-hard PC user (don't even own a console and use a tablet for web surfing only no gaming), but it doesn't take much imagination to see that the PC's shift into a tool for specialists is rapidly accelerating. Hopefully next gen consoles will rock as that is probably the only way we'll get good games on the PC in a couple years.

Meanwhile, most games continue to suck and focus more on graphics than storytelling and gameplay.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 11:04 AM   #25
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This is what- 3 years off? Developers will have a pretty good grasp of how to code for the PS4 and neXtBox by that time. Meaning significantly more impressive DX11 only games than what we presently have. 3 years from now Tri-Titans will likely be struggling to push decent framerates at 1440p on whatever the top game happens to be at that time. A heavily oc'd 3930k will likely be pushed near it's limits, and 8GB of system RAM won't seem so over kill.

People scoff at the "low" specs of these next gen consoles but I believe they fail to realize these consoles wont have the software overhead a comparably spec'd PC would have, and developers have direct access to the HW from a programming perspective, unlike with the PC. So they can squeeze far better performance from the hardware than they could a comparably spec'd PC.

As such, 3 years from now Crysis, Crysis 3, or whatever game that presently stresses our hardware won't seem so demanding. We'll need better hardware to keep up. I'm telling ya'll these next gen consoles will bring an influx of improvements to gaming- from "graphics" to physics effects to better AI. And 3 years from now developers will have a pretty solid grasp on how to code to get the most from the hardware.

1TB/s won't seem so extreme in 3 years. I'm pretty positive of this.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 08:30 PM   #26
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yea let's hope so, hopefully the wait is not as long as the wait for 1080p/3d 300mhz hdmi chip TV, if we ever see them it will be a miracle, I pretty much gave up 3D gaming because the lack of big monitors/TV's that work with 3d vision and do 1080p
The next HDMI standard that will allow 4K TV's to run at 60hz is the same HDMI standard that will allow 1080p 3D via HDMI.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 11:10 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
This is what- 3 years off? Developers will have a pretty good grasp of how to code for the PS4 and neXtBox by that time. Meaning significantly more impressive DX11 only games than what we presently have. 3 years from now Tri-Titans will likely be struggling to push decent framerates at 1440p on whatever the top game happens to be at that time. A heavily oc'd 3930k will likely be pushed near it's limits, and 8GB of system RAM won't seem so over kill.

People scoff at the "low" specs of these next gen consoles but I believe they fail to realize these consoles wont have the software overhead a comparably spec'd PC would have, and developers have direct access to the HW from a programming perspective, unlike with the PC. So they can squeeze far better performance from the hardware than they could a comparably spec'd PC.

As such, 3 years from now Crysis, Crysis 3, or whatever game that presently stresses our hardware won't seem so demanding. We'll need better hardware to keep up. I'm telling ya'll these next gen consoles will bring an influx of improvements to gaming- from "graphics" to physics effects to better AI. And 3 years from now developers will have a pretty solid grasp on how to code to get the most from the hardware.

1TB/s won't seem so extreme in 3 years. I'm pretty positive of this.

The question isn't so much if the hardware will get there or not, because it eventually will, but when will the software make use of it effectively?.....We're already in a period where it takes a good 4 years to develop a brand new game engine and then develop the game on top of that engine, so to see Volta in use in an actual game by 2016~17, means starting the development of that game right now, where Volta is nothing more than the end goal that Nvidia wishes to achieve, which is all dependent on hardware fabs like TSMC being ready for the fab process used( probably 14nm) and developers have nothing to work with hardware wise for the next few years.


Developers will need Volta prototypes in their hands and then they can see what it's able to do, and push those prototypes to the limit of their ability on those future game releases.....It's just a goal right now unfortunately.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 12:30 PM   #28
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I'm sure that Crytek had a Titan in hand when developing Crysis.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 12:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
The question isn't so much if the hardware will get there or not, because it eventually will, but when will the software make use of it effectively?.....We're already in a period where it takes a good 4 years to develop a brand new game engine and then develop the game on top of that engine, so to see Volta in use in an actual game by 2016~17, means starting the development of that game right now, where Volta is nothing more than the end goal that Nvidia wishes to achieve, which is all dependent on hardware fabs like TSMC being ready for the fab process used( probably 14nm) and developers have nothing to work with hardware wise for the next few years.


Developers will need Volta prototypes in their hands and then they can see what it's able to do, and push those prototypes to the limit of their ability on those future game releases.....It's just a goal right now unfortunately.
I understand this. Nobody in the industry can predict the future with 100% certainty. For all we know Volta, a year from now, may get cancelled for another project. Who knows?

My point was in 3 years time developers will be pushing out games that'll make a single Titan insufficient. Two Titans will be heavily stressed, and three Titans may just barely be enough to push the graphics heavy weight of 2016 at a high resolution. A single card, like Volta, suddenly becomes much more reasonable.

I mean honestly, do you people believe that 3 years from now games will look the same? No real advances in visual effects, physics, or AI? The DX9 and 32-bit limitations of present gen games will all but be eradicated, we'll pretty much be seeing DX11 and 64-bit exclusive titles that are designed for multi-core, memory-rich systems (by today's standards). Thus the graphics heavy-weight of 2016 will be significantly more demanding than the heavy weight of today.

Kinda' figured this to be common knowledge. I think some people are skeptical that these new consoles really won't bring much in the way of improvements in games. I'm 100% convinced they're wrong. We will see a very notable leap in game IQ. Of course it's going to peak and eventually flat line at some point, possibly after these next consoles have been out for 3 or 4 years, maybe longer. But until then games are only going to get more demanding, and hardware will improve accordingly.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 01:29 PM   #30
shadow001
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I mean honestly, do you people believe that 3 years from now games will look the same? No real advances in visual effects, physics, or AI? The DX9 and 32-bit limitations of present gen games will all but be eradicated, we'll pretty much be seeing DX11 and 64-bit exclusive titles that are designed for multi-core, memory-rich systems (by today's standards). Thus the graphics heavy-weight of 2016 will be significantly more demanding than the heavy weight of today.

Maybe not quite the same obviously, but look at games released 3 years ago and compare them with the latest releases right now, and ask yourself if there has been a huge leap forward in the past 36 months and I think the answer is a definite no.....Improvements here and there sure, but night and day ones that you can immediately notice, definitely not.


Now add our desire to play our games at ever higher resolutions, and many here have expressed the desire to eventually get a 4K display, once they get cheaper as the initial round of good displays are still 4000$....Now get Crysis 3 at maxed in game settings at a resolution 4x harder to run than 1080p, and still 2x harder than running the exact same game with a 2560*1600 display.


Now imagine a game far better looking than Crysis 3 at maxed settings, with more interactivity, better AI, and better physics and running at a 4K resolution, while pulling off 60 Fps averages( never mind those that like 120 Fps and use 3D glasses) using nothing but a single Volta card.....I think you're hoping for too much....

We're in the land of diminishing returns to be able to mass produce graphics chips in an affordable way that are also way more powerful in the process, as there's the upcoming 20nm process, then the 14nm process and wrapping it up with the 11nm process......After that point the main problem isn't even lithography to mass produce the chips in an affordable way, but complicated physics to solve issues such as quantum tunneling as the gate portion of the transistor which allows current to pass thru it(or not) is so small that electricity passes right thru it and is the basic requirement to build a logic circuit made of millions(or billions of them), organized in a specific way, can no longer be met....


The current will pass thru regardless if the gate is closed or open, known more commonly as leaking, and at the 11nm process, that gate thickness which acts as a switch may be as little as 5 atoms wide....It's simply not enough of a barrier anymore.
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