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Old Jun 25, 2008, 02:10 PM   #1
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xsvcd
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Question ATI 4850 does not recognize Yamaha receivers as HDMI audio devices-DVI instead?

ATI 4850 does not recognize Yamaha receivers as HDMI audio devices-DVI instead?

I just purchased an ATI 4850 because I wanted 7.1 PCM audio. However, the 4850 will not recognize my Yamaha RX-V663 receiver as an HDMI device. Therefore, it will not let the audio pass through to the receiver. It only recognizes it as a DVI device.

I plugged the 4850 directly into my TV via HDMI and I got the audio because the card recognizes my TV as an HDMi device.

Does anyone know how to correct this issue? Is there are way to trick the video card into seeing the receiver as an HDMI device?

The latest 8.6 ATI drivers claim to fix this problem. However, those drivers do not fix my issue with the Yamaha receiver. Many other people have encountered this problem with the Yamaha receivers. I have not seen any reports of anyone getting it to work with a Yamaha RX-V663.
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 02:22 PM   #2
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Tried the 8.6 hotfix driver?
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 09:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
Tried the 8.6 hotfix driver?
Yes I tried the hot fix driver and the regular Cat 8.6 drivers. Neither of them worked.

From the information that I have gathered it looks like there is a specific problem is with the newer HDMI 1.3 Yamaha Receivers(RX-V663, RX-V863, 3800, Z11….etc).

Those receivers are not seen as HDMI devices by the video card. However, every other HDMI device(PS3, XBOX, HD-DVD, Blu-ray player....etc) all see it as an HDMI device capable of handling 7.1 channels of lossless audio.

The EDID data is missing the extension block when connected to the Yamaha receiver and the 4850. Therefore the video card will not pass audio to it. Here are some examples of the EDID data I get when connected through the receiver and when connected directly to the TV.

Any help on this is greatly appreciated. A lot of people bought this receiver lately. They are getting impatient about fixing it and most of them will start returning the 4850 if it isn't corrected soon.

Connected Directly to Sony TV
00 ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 4d d9 f8 01 01 01 01 01
00 0e 01 03 80 00 00 78 0a 0d c9 a0 57 47 98 27
12 48 4c 20 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1d 80 18 71 1c 16 20 58 2c
25 00 10 09 00 00 00 9e 8c 0a d0 8a 20 e0 2d 10
10 3e 96 00 04 03 00 00 00 18 00 00 00 fc 00 53
4f 4e 59 20 54 56 0a 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 fd
00 3b 3d 0f 2e 08 00 0a 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 df
00 ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 4d d9 f8 01 01 01 01 01
00 0e 01 03 80 00 00 78 0a 0d c9 a0 57 47 98 27
12 48 4c 20 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1d 80 18 71 1c 16 20 58 2c
25 00 10 09 00 00 00 9e 8c 0a d0 8a 20 e0 2d 10
10 3e 96 00 04 03 00 00 00 18 00 00 00 fc 00 53
4f 4e 59 20 54 56 0a 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 fd
00 3b 3d 0f 2e 08 00 0a 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 df

Established Timings :
640 x 480 @ 60 Hz
Block 1 DTD Found (See List)
Block 1 DTD Found (See List)
Display supports underscan
Display supports basic audio
Display supports YCbCr 4:4:4
Display supports YCbCr 4:2:2
7 native formats in DTDs
Speaker Allocation Block :
Speakers Present :
Rear Centre
Short Audio Descriptor:
Audio Format - LPCM
8 Channel Sound
Sampling Frequencies Supported :176kHz, 88kHz, 48kHz, 44kHz
Short Audio Descriptor:
1 Channel Sound
Sampling Frequencies Supported :88kHz, 44kHz
Maximum supported bitrate :256
Short Audio Descriptor:
Audio Format - MP3
1 Channel Sound
Sampling Frequencies Supported :176kHz
Maximum supported bitrate :256
Short Audio Descriptor:
Audio Format - MP3
1 Channel Sound
Sampling Frequencies Supported :176kHz
Maximum supported bitrate :8
Short Audio Descriptor:
8 Channel Sound


Connected to TV going through Yamaha RX-V663 receiver

00 ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 65 a8 27 31 00 00 00 00
00 12 01 03 80 00 00 78 0a 0d c9 a0 57 47 98 27
12 48 4c 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1d 80 18 71 1c 16 20 58 2c
25 00 c4 8e 21 00 00 9e 01 1d 80 d0 72 1c 16 20
10 2c 25 80 c4 8e 21 00 00 9e 00 00 00 fc 00 52
58 2d 56 36 36 33 0a 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 fd
00 17 79 0f 5b 0f 00 0a 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 66
00 ff ff ff ff ff ff 00 65 a8 27 31 00 00 00 00
00 12 01 03 80 00 00 78 0a 0d c9 a0 57 47 98 27
12 48 4c 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 01 1d 80 18 71 1c 16 20 58 2c
25 00 c4 8e 21 00 00 9e 01 1d 80 d0 72 1c 16 20
10 2c 25 80 c4 8e 21 00 00 9e 00 00 00 fc 00 52
58 2d 56 36 36 33 0a 20 20 20 20 20 00 00 00 fd
00 17 79 0f 5b 0f 00 0a 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 66

No Established Timings Found
Block 1 DTD Found (See List)
Block 1 DTD Found (See List)
Display supports underscan
Display supports basic audio
Display supports YCbCr 4:4:4
Display supports YCbCr 4:2:2
7 native formats in DTDs
Speaker Allocation Block :
Speakers Present :
Rear Centre
Speaker Allocation Block :
Speakers Present :
Rear Left Centre / Rear Right Centre
Speaker Allocation Block :
Speakers Present :
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 09:43 AM   #4
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OK I will pass it on to AMD/ATI since its detailed enough, they should be able to reproduce it.
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 11:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
OK I will pass it on to AMD/ATI since its detailed enough, they should be able to reproduce it.
Thanks spyre! Do they have the ability to test a certain receiver? It looks like the Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 receivers are experiencing the issue. The older Yamaha RX-V661 and RX-V1700 do not experience the issue.

Here is a thread that details exactly what we have found so far. If they want any more specific testing done then I would be happy to do it and report back.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14164770

I really would just like to get this issue resolved because a lot of people are just returning the new 4850 as defective. The RX-V663 is a very popular inexpensive receiver so it is likely that a lot of people will experience this issue in the future.

Last edited by xsvcd : Jun 26, 2008 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Spelled his name wrong!
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 01:50 PM   #6
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Not sure I haven't toured their testing site, I would imagine they have a decent range of equipment or can get hold of it if needed. They have equipment for broadcasting and testing PAL for example when they are NTSC over there and other fun stuff.
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 02:16 PM   #7
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What does it take to become a beta tester? I wouldn't mind doing it. What are the requirements to become a tester?
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 02:56 PM   #8
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Submit an application form, there's one on the AMD.ATI site if you use the search function.
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Old Jul 8, 2008, 09:13 PM   #9
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Bump:

This is still a major issue and people are starting to return cards because of it. It doesn't matter if the receiver manufactures are at fault. People are going to blame(and return) the video cards!
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Old Jul 9, 2008, 10:08 PM   #10
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I'm having the same issue with my Sapphire 4850 and Yamaha RX-V663.
Realtek control panel says "not plugged in".
Works correctly when plugged into my Panasonic Plasma (but I can then only connect via optical SPDIF to my amp)
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 01:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddie_mercuryblue View Post
I'm having the same issue with my Sapphire 4850 and Yamaha RX-V663.
Realtek control panel says "not plugged in".
Works correctly when plugged into my Panasonic Plasma (but I can then only connect via optical SPDIF to my amp)
I am in exactly the same boat as you dude. Except I have an Onkyo 576 receiver.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 08:41 AM   #12
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthed5 View Post
I am in exactly the same boat as you dude. Except I have an Onkyo 576 receiver.
I have heard that there is an Onkyo update that fixes the problem for their receivers. Have you tried updating your receiver? I am not sure how updates are applied but I think several people have gotten it to work with that receiver.

Yamaha receivers are different story. NO ONE has been able to play HDMI audio from an ATI “Stand alone” video card with the RX-V663 or RX-V863.
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 08:51 AM   #13
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Does this issue extend to the Denon receivers? I know they were throwing out some "non-standard" EDID data as well (technically, it was within spec, but not the way other companies were doing it).
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 07:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsvcd View Post
I have heard that there is an Onkyo update that fixes the problem for their receivers. Have you tried updating your receiver? I am not sure how updates are applied but I think several people have gotten it to work with that receiver.

Yamaha receivers are different story. NO ONE has been able to play HDMI audio from an ATI “Stand alone” video card with the RX-V663 or RX-V863.

I have emailed onkyo and searched for support and found nothing. Where did you hear about this?
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Old Jul 14, 2008, 08:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthed5 View Post
I have emailed onkyo and searched for support and found nothing. Where did you hear about this?
people over on AVS forums have 7.1 working with some of their Onkyo receivers.. the 705 and 805 have been mentioned as working. I don't think that the update was for ATI cards specifically, but rather a normal firmware upgrade.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 12:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsvcd View Post
Thanks spyre! Do they have the ability to test a certain receiver? It looks like the Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 receivers are experiencing the issue. The older Yamaha RX-V661 and RX-V1700 do not experience the issue.

Here is a thread that details exactly what we have found so far. If they want any more specific testing done then I would be happy to do it and report back.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14164770

I really would just like to get this issue resolved because a lot of people are just returning the new 4850 as defective. The RX-V663 is a very popular inexpensive receiver so it is likely that a lot of people will experience this issue in the future.
Your are wrong, the yamaha rx-v1700 does not get real lpcm 5.1/7.1 from the ati 4850. Just trying a blu-ray with a pcm 5.1 track and you will get no audio no matter if you are using microsoft/realtek driver, or whatever setting in powerdvd.

I called yamaha norway. Got a cold shoulder about how little importance htpc was, how stupid forums was since there was so much mistakes, and my receiver was a 2 year old model (i said i bought it 12 months ago). So they where not likely to do anything about it. Then i thought to myself screw em!

I sold my yamaha rx-v1700 due to this issue + the issue where yamaha only supports rgb 16-235 colors. I bought a onkyo 805 and audio works perfectly now.

There is also one issue you guys should be aware off. If your resolution is anything other than 1280x720, 1920x1080 or 1080i you will not get any audio. This is an ati bug.

Last edited by magnusavr : Jul 15, 2008 at 12:37 PM.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 12:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsvcd View Post
Bump:

This is still a major issue and people are starting to return cards because of it. It doesn't matter if the receiver manufactures are at fault. People are going to blame(and return) the video cards!
Well i didnt. I got rid of the yamaha rx-v1700 receiver instead (read my post above this one). Bought a Onkyo 805, works like a dream with 4850.
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Old Jul 15, 2008, 06:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnusavr View Post

There is also one issue you guys should be aware off. If your resolution is anything other than 1280x720, 1920x1080 or 1080i you will not get any audio. This is an ati bug.

Is this for the onkyo you are speaking of?

I will not be going to lengths to sell my onkyo. To much to package and mail. I would rather sell my ATI and buy nvidia. As much as i dont want to.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 08:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthed5 View Post
Is this for the onkyo you are speaking of?

I will not be going to lengths to sell my onkyo. To much to package and mail. I would rather sell my ATI and buy nvidia. As much as i dont want to.

It dosent matter what brand it is. Thats why I said its an ati bug. You will not get audio using any other resolution than the standard hd resolutions 720p, 1080i or 1080p. F example 1360x768 gives you no audio.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 09:39 AM   #20
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Any chance the Catalyst 8.7 drivers that come out this afternoon will fix this problem?
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 09:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsvcd View Post
Any chance the Catalyst 8.7 drivers that come out this afternoon will fix this problem?
I doubt it since it exists using the hotfix. There is probably a small chance.

But my guess is that Catalyst 8.8 or 8.9 will adress it. Probably a lot of engineers on vacation these days.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:51 PM   #22
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Here is Gefen’s response to my inquiry about when the fix HDCP will be ready for their DVI Detective Plus device. Without the fix you loose HDCP compliance. AnyDVD can fix that for Blu-rays but it doesn’t fix things like the NetFlix play it now.

We are receiving our long awaited EDIDP’s sometime next week and we’ll be shipping all backlog.

So hopefully it will actually ship next week and it will work! In case it doesn’t work I have anydvdHD for Blu-rays and I have the ATI 4850’s second output setup to do straight DVI with HDCP. I just have to click one button to switch to a connection with HDCP. I really want HDMI with HDCP and 7.1 Channel lossless though! That is the ultimate goal.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 03:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsvcd View Post
I just have to click one button to switch to a connection with HDCP.

Is that one button on the Geffen, then? Or on the TV/monitor, or in Windows via a script?

Such functionality would be useful to me, as on my POS tv (Mitsubishi DLP), HDMI looks worse than either component or VGA input (I know it doesn't make sense), and I'd like to be able to switch to an HDCP compliant input only when absolutely necessary, but without accessing Catalyst Control Center and configuring modes. Can you do this on my Gigabyte 780g mobo? I'm also using a Denon receiver with non-standard EDID, so I'd be interested in the Detective's capabilities for future upgrades I make in my ability to do 7.1 PCM (can't on this mobo, other than perhaps via my soundcard analog out).
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 04:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hithere View Post
Is that one button on the Geffen, then? Or on the TV/monitor, or in Windows via a script?
I have an HDMI switch that allows me to switch between the two outputs on the ATI card. I can use the non HDCP HDMI through the Gefen switch or click one button on my Harmony Remote to switch to the Straight DVI output of the ATI card. In the second case I use either optical ouput or 5 channel analog output for audio.

The real problem is that Gefen hasn't shipped my DVI Detective yet and I ordered it 3 weeks ago!
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 02:08 PM   #25
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The Catalyst 8.7 drivers do not have anything about an HDMI audio fix in the release notes. Guess our only hope is that Gefen can figure out how to get their DVI Detective to work with HDCP. Also there are some rumblings about a Yamaha firmware update later this week. I wouldn’t count on that one though.
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 03:18 PM   #26
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The 8.7 drivers were written a month ago so it wouldn't have been fixed then anyway since I only drew their attention to it after they were written.
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 04:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyre View Post
The 8.7 drivers were written a month ago so it wouldn't have been fixed then anyway since I only drew their attention to it after they were written.
Yea, I didn't think so but there was always hoping? Anyway, I don't see ATI fixing this anytime soon. Every email I have received from them has blamed Yamaha!
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Old Jul 21, 2008, 04:54 PM   #28
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If you're on XP, there is a Cat 8.7 HDMI Audio driver on the site... might be worth a shot in case there was something fixed that happens to fix this issue?
http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_ca...p/hdmiaudio-xp

(edit: link came from 4800 series driver listing but it says 2900 on that page.. strange..)
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 02:48 PM   #29
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They finally corrected my order and my Gefen DVI Detective Plus shipped yesterday! Unfortunately, I am out of town all week so I won't get it for about 10 days.

I will let you know how it works in 2 weeks!
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Old Aug 3, 2008, 11:18 PM   #30
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I hooked up my brand new Gefen DVI Detective Plus(Programmed specifically for use with a computer). And what do you know? The HD4850 recognizes my display as an “HDMI” device. After a few hours of tweaking I was able to get 8 channels of PCM bliss and the HDCP works now! Thanks Gefen! However, there are still some questions/issues I have.

1. I can no longer see my boot-up screen. The screen is blank until the windows logo now. It used to show me the boot-up sequence screens. Not a huge deal though. I can always plug another monitor in to see the boot-up screens. The only display that does not see them is the one with the DVI-Detective in the loop.

2. I can not get the HDMI connection to pass DD or DTS at all. I get nothing when I select the optical/toslink options in my software DVD players. Has anyone got DD/DTS pass-through to work over HDMI? What programs/settings did you use?

3. I checked my receiver to see what type of PCM it was receiving. It only shows that it is 48 Khz. It doesn’t say anything about bit depth. I tried to find a way to force something other than 48 Khz in Windows XP but I could not find any settings that would control that. Does anyone know how to control the output of the PCM over HDMI in windows XP?

4. My windows XP keeps reseting my number of speakers to 7.1 everytime I reboot the computer. I only have a 5.1 channel system so I wanted it to always retain the 5.1 settings. Does anyone know how to “always” force 5.1 in the windows XP pro “Speaker settings” program?

5. I had to use one of the default programs for the Gefen device. At first it was programmed to accept all video resolutions. However, it was only programmed to use 2 channel PCM audio by default. I plugged the power into it and then programmed it to accept 8 channel PCM and DD/DTS. 8 channel PCM works DD/DTS does not.
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