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Old Oct 17, 2019, 03:33 PM   #91
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Meteor_of_War
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Yeah, some people have principles and adhere to them as much as possible, believing that doing so makes the world a better place and them an honorable person. Some people lack those principles.

I like to believe I'm the former rather than the latter.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 03:58 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Yeah, some people have principles and adhere to them as much as possible, believing that doing so makes the world a better place and them an honorable person. Some people lack those principles.

I like to believe I'm the former rather than the latter.
Some people have their principles but they arent the same for everyone.

There is a group of people who think Blizzard is justified in banning and letting go of the casters. The casters knew it was coming and even asked for him to say the words as they acted like little kids and hid under the desk. In any normal work environment(and make no mistake these guys are working cause they are contracted to do so) you would get fired for the same thing. If I went into a meeting at work today where Im talking to the whole company and just started spewing some political stuff I would definitely be let go too. It wouldnt matter that I was in support of China or not, political stuff that has nothing to do with the meeting is just not acceptable.

Is whats going on in China right? Nah, but this wasnt the place or platform for that to come out. The guy was a Hearthstone(I think?) champion so Im sure he could have saved his views for his own video or whatever and people would have watched.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:01 PM   #93
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Did the interviewers know, though? I haven't watched the original footage or anything, but from what i had heard, he put on a mask like used in the HK protests and that prompted them to get out of frame, because they knew being associated with it was going to be a problem for them.


Wouldn't the onus of preventing him from fallen on the production team, whether or not the interviewers explicitly tried to tell them to cut the broadcast?

Unless those interviewers were trying to encourage him to speak or were trying to state their support for the message, which likely would have been against their contract in the same way it was against his, I don't see why they'd be penalized, even if they ducked or whatever.




Personally I still think it's silly, but I don't see how the interviewers did something against their likely contract said, so I don't know why they're penalized, and with the same severity, as the player. Regardless of outside influence or content of the message, I think the player expected this outcome for himself and it is right in line with what their (perhaps needlessly restrictive) contract says.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:07 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by DaJMasta View Post
Did the interviewers know, though? I haven't watched the original footage or anything, but from what i had heard, he put on a mask like used in the HK protests and that prompted them to get out of frame, because they knew being associated with it was going to be a problem for them.


Wouldn't the onus of preventing him from fallen on the production team, whether or not the interviewers explicitly tried to tell them to cut the broadcast?

Unless those interviewers were trying to encourage him to speak or were trying to state their support for the message, which likely would have been against their contract in the same way it was against his, I don't see why they'd be penalized, even if they ducked or whatever.




Personally I still think it's silly, but I don't see how the interviewers did something against their likely contract said, so I don't know why they're penalized, and with the same severity, as the player. Regardless of outside influence or content of the message, I think the player expected this outcome for himself and it is right in line with what their (perhaps needlessly restrictive) contract says.
they were both laughing before and after so yes I would think so
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:08 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Some people have their principles but they arent the same for everyone.

There is a group of people who think Blizzard is justified in banning and letting go of the casters. The casters knew it was coming and even asked for him to say the words as they acted like little kids and hid under the desk. In any normal work environment(and make no mistake these guys are working cause they are contracted to do so) you would get fired for the same thing. If I went into a meeting at work today where Im talking to the whole company and just started spewing some political stuff I would definitely be let go too. It wouldnt matter that I was in support of China or not, political stuff that has nothing to do with the meeting is just not acceptable.

Is whats going on in China right? Nah, but this wasnt the place or platform for that to come out. The guy was a Hearthstone(I think?) champion so Im sure he could have saved his views for his own video or whatever and people would have watched.
Obviously I was referring to the principles of the boycotters.

As to your other point, eh I don't compare this to a regular job. Its like when someone wins a championship title in sports, they are excited and euphoric and may take that moment to express all kinds of things.

Way I see it even if they signed agreements to not speak of anything political they did it and now the world has been exposed to Blizzard's lack of democratic values in their policies, in favor of preserving profits from countries with oppressive governments. Since it happened (right or wrong) now I know for sure not to support them.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:20 PM   #96
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Obviously I was referring to the principles of the boycotters.

As to your other point, eh I don't compare this to a regular job. Its like when someone wins a championship title in sports, they are excited and euphoric and may take that moment to express all kinds of things.

Way I see it even if they signed agreements to not speak of anything political they did it and now the world has been exposed to Blizzard's lack of democratic values in their policies, in favor of preserving profits from countries with oppressive governments. Since it happened (right or wrong) now I know for sure not to support them.
what do you think would happen at a Olympics it a winner did this ?
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:23 PM   #97
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A job is a job whether or not you think it applies. I dont think I have ever heard a superstar come out on the national stage and say something political after a games championship.

Closest thing I can think of to that is Kanye West during the Katrina fundraiser saying Bush doesnt care about black people. West is not an athlete but the closest instance I can think of where something like that has happened.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:36 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
A job is a job whether or not you think it applies. I dont think I have ever heard a superstar come out on the national stage and say something political after a games championship.

Closest thing I can think of to that is Kanye West during the Katrina fundraiser saying Bush doesnt care about black people. West is not an athlete but the closest instance I can think of where something like that has happened.
1968 Olympics
and they did far less
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 05:46 PM   #99
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I spent $50 on RP with Riot the other day. Considering 5% of Blizzard is owned by Tencent, and 100% of Riot is owned by Tencent. I think I offset about 100 account deletions.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 06:00 PM   #100
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1968 Olympics
and they did far less
Man I wasnt even alive You cant directly compare 68 to 2019 though
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 06:51 PM   #101
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Man I wasnt even alive You cant directly compare 68 to 2019 though
I was

china olympics was not long ago and everyone bent over backwards not to piss off china at the time
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 07:25 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Yeah, some people have principles and adhere to them as much as possible, believing that doing so makes the world a better place and them an honorable person. Some people lack those principles.

I like to believe I'm the former rather than the latter.
Wow, that's really... Not what anyone else is talking about.

Ever stop to wonder if some of us are so busy fighting for everything else going on in the world we don't happen to make the same choices you do? I'm glad you have such a spectacular pedestal, but don't dump your insecurities on me.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 08:37 PM   #103
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I don't think I have ever heard a superstar come out on the national stage and say something political after a games championship.
After the past couple NBA championships many of the big stars in the NBA publicly criticized Trump.

LeBron James 'U Bum' Tweet To Donald Trump Is The Most Retweeted Athlete Post of 2017

"As of Dec. 5, James' tweet has more than 660,000 retweets and 1.5 million likes. According to Twitter, it is the seventh-most retweeted tweet in the world for the year." (source)
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 09:14 PM   #104
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After the past couple NBA championships many of the big stars in the NBA publicly criticized Trump.

LeBron James 'U Bum' Tweet To Donald Trump Is The Most Retweeted Athlete Post of 2017

"As of Dec. 5, James' tweet has more than 660,000 retweets and 1.5 million likes. According to Twitter, it is the seventh-most retweeted tweet in the world for the year." (source)
Not the same. He was asked by a reporter about tweets that happened not during a game. He didn't use the live post game to say anything on his own.
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Old Oct 17, 2019, 09:36 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Drexion View Post
After the past couple NBA championships many of the big stars in the NBA publicly criticized Trump.

LeBron James 'U Bum' Tweet To Donald Trump Is The Most Retweeted Athlete Post of 2017

"As of Dec. 5, James' tweet has more than 660,000 retweets and 1.5 million likes. According to Twitter, it is the seventh-most retweeted tweet in the world for the year." (source)
https://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors...n-14535304.php

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/andre...ong-kong-tweet
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 12:11 PM   #106
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Wow, that's really... Not what anyone else is talking about.

Ever stop to wonder if some of us are so busy fighting for everything else going on in the world we don't happen to make the same choices you do? I'm glad you have such a spectacular pedestal, but don't dump your insecurities on me.
Haha! Struck a nerve there!
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 12:23 PM   #107
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A job is a job whether or not you think it applies. I dont think I have ever heard a superstar come out on the national stage and say something political after a games championship.

Closest thing I can think of to that is Kanye West during the Katrina fundraiser saying Bush doesnt care about black people. West is not an athlete but the closest instance I can think of where something like that has happened.
Maybe not necessarily always in a post championship game interview, but there have definitely been many times athletes have opted to use their press briefing time to make political statements rather than talk about their game performance. First ones to come to mind is Colin Kaepernick and Muhammad Ali. Also literally every year there's always players who choose not to go to the traditional white house visit after winning their respective championships which is a political statement in itself.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 12:42 PM   #108
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Aaaaaand there it goes.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 12:49 PM   #109
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Maybe not necessarily always in a post championship game interview, but there have definitely been many times athletes have opted to use their press briefing time to make political statements rather than talk about their game performance. First ones to come to mind is Colin Kaepernick and Muhammad Ali. Also literally every year there's always players who choose not to go to the traditional white house visit after winning their respective championships which is a political statement in itself.
Kaep only mentioned his ideas after people asked him. He didnt actually say anything about his cause until quite a bit after people took notice he was kneeling. Most of his story came out during pressers where reporters asked him why. For all we know when he was kneeling he could have been tired.

Ali is just a whole different era.


On the white house thing, they arent specifically using the platform. A more fair comparison would have been if they went and while being interviewed said they hated Trump(or whatever president)
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 01:04 PM   #110
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Kaep only mentioned his ideas after people asked him. He didnt actually say anything about his cause until quite a bit after people took notice he was kneeling. Most of his story came out during pressers where reporters asked him why. For all we know when he was kneeling he could have been tired.

Ali is just a whole different era.


On the white house thing, they arent specifically using the platform. A more fair comparison would have been if they went and while being interviewed said they hated Trump(or whatever president)
I see you're trying to look for only narrow and specific comparisons, or would probably just always come up with an excuse for any example I'd give and never be 100% satisfied. Fact is its quite common for athletes and celebrities of all kinds to use their media spotlight to bring attention to and push political agendas to the unaware. Nothing new about it. Also nothing new about people trying to suppress, discredit, and bring them down for it which is always a dead giveaway of what side they are on. And that's the side that is not all in on the 1st amendment, or only when it serves them politically and/or financially.

The way I see it, whether you feel its wrong or not given the rules of whatever the event is, public protest is not supposed to be convenient or comfortable. If it was it would never be effective. Its only ever effective when done at a time and place where its not acceptable and safe, because the main purpose is to bring as much attention and awareness as possible to the masses who may not be noticing their protests.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 01:27 PM   #111
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Im not finding very specific scenarios. The only scenario you dont seem to understand is that the casters and the player did this on the companies time. No problem with them making their own videos on their own time promoting their own stuff with their own audience.

Making statements during company time vs their own time/dime.

You can protest whenever you want but if youre working while doing it I hope youre ready for the repercussions if its against the rules. Dont act all surprised when you get let go and banished


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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Fact is its quite common for athletes and celebrities of all kinds to use their media spotlight to bring attention to and push political agendas to the unaware. Nothing new about it
Said it for me
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 01:42 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Maybe not necessarily always in a post championship game interview, but there have definitely been many times athletes have opted to use their press briefing time to make political statements rather than talk about their game performance. First ones to come to mind is Colin Kaepernick and Muhammad Ali. Also literally every year there's always players who choose not to go to the traditional white house visit after winning their respective championships which is a political statement in itself.
and that worked out well for him and the NFL

NFL has lost viewership over it and he is blackballed and will never work



fact is a lot of people don't want political speech in their games they watch or play
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 01:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Im not finding very specific scenarios. The only scenario you dont seem to understand is that the casters and the player did this on the companies time. No problem with them making their own videos on their own time promoting their own stuff with their own audience.

Making statements during company time vs their own time/dime.

You can protest whenever you want but if youre working while doing it I hope youre ready for the repercussions if its against the rules. Dont act all surprised when you get let go and banished
I have said multiple times whether you think its right or wrong, it served the purposes I've explained. I'm not concerned with the casters' or the player's decision being smart or not regarding their careers. If they knew or not that there would be blow back from Blizzard for their actions, that's their problem at this point. I am simply focused on the reaction of the company and how I will choose to or not consume their products going forward based on it. I wasn't aware of Blizzard's policies and principles before, now I am.


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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Said it for me
Not sure what you're getting at there.


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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
and that worked out well for him and the NFL

NFL has lost viewership over it and he is blackballed and will never work
You need to look outside your circle of right-wing friends from time to time. Go look at Nike's stock and earnings numbers since their Kaepernick ad. After a year they saw something like 30% boost in sales. I think his public image is doing just fine.

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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
fact is a lot of people don't want political speech in their games they watch or play
And that's exactly why its an effective time and place to mount your protests.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 02:11 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
I have said multiple times whether you think its right or wrong, it served the purposes I've explained. I'm not concerned with the casters' or the player's decision being smart or not regarding their careers. If they knew or not that there would be blow back from Blizzard for their actions, that's their problem at this point. I am simply focused on the reaction of the company and how I will choose to or not consume their products going forward based on it. I wasn't aware of Blizzard's policies and principles before, now I am.
I agree that it served a purpose. Do you agree that they shouldnt be mad they were let go and banned?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Not sure what you're getting at there.
I quoted you saying exactly what I was trying to explain. Players using their own time(not company time) to express their views.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
You need to look outside your circle of right-wing friends from time to time. Go look at Nike's stock and earnings numbers since their Kaepernick ad. After a year they saw something like 30% boost in sales. I think his public image is doing just fine.
Dont really have a dog in this fight but I am not sure we can attribute Nikes ridiculous sales to Kaep. We'd have to do a deep dive into that. Nike is alwyas and forever going to sell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
And that's exactly why its an effective time and place to mount your protests.
I actually hated all the Kaep talk during the games when it was at its height. Im a huge football fan and Id rather see a game than hear talk about politics. If I wanted politics I would turn on cnn or something like that. Im not against what Kaep was standing for but intruding on my off time to interject your ideas when Im trying to unwind from the week just makes me think "just stfu already and go away" even if his cause is a good one.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 02:38 PM   #115
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I agree that it served a purpose. Do you agree that they shouldnt be mad they were let go and banned?
Yes I agree. IF they were genuinely aware of the rules and consequences, they can't be mad. That's not really where my concerns and arguments are aimed. But on that topic, while I'm not sure if they truly knew all the contractual policies (how could you given what they said) I am fairly certain there's no way they could have anticipated the severity of the punishment Blizzard dealt them. IMO, it was outrageous and obviously just to appease their Chinese overlords especially since they reduced it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logical View Post
I quoted you saying exactly what I was trying to explain. Players using their own time(not company time) to express their views.
OK, I thought you were trying to say its unheard of for players to do that. Yeah in that case I think we were just arguing on different points here.


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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Dont really have a dog in this fight but I am not sure we can attribute Nikes ridiculous sales to Kaep. We'd have to do a deep dive into that. Nike is alwyas and forever going to sell.
Well, quick Google search finds this article with some info:

Quote:
As a piece of marketing, it helped galvanize those who had been preaching the word “purpose” already for years. That in a post-2016 world, brands—and subsequently their advertising—can’t afford to be neutral.

Nike’s results seemed to have backed that up. Despite Fox News and parts of the social mediasphere predicting the Swoosh’s downfall, the company claimed $163 million in earned media, a $6 billion brand value increase, and a 31% boost in sales.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90399316...-kaepernick-ad


Quote:
Originally Posted by logical View Post
I actually hated all the Kaep talk during the games when it was at its height. Im a huge football fan and Id rather see a game than hear talk about politics. If I wanted politics I would turn on cnn or something like that. Im not against what Kaep was standing for but intruding on my off time to interject your ideas when Im trying to unwind from the week just makes me think "just stfu already and go away" even if his cause is a good one.
First please don't get your politics from CNN, lol.

But your reaction is perfectly fine and normal to me. You're not supposed to like it. Its supposed to get in your face and make sure you're aware of something important. I don't know how much you personally were aware of the issues Kaepernick was protesting or paid attention to, but if you weren't aware before you certainly were after and that was the point. To get the message to people who otherwise refused to pay attention. People who watch football don't always also keep up with the news. Just happened to be that a football player wanted to use his celebrity to do it which is more effective than the average joe.
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 02:44 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
I have said multiple times whether you think its right or wrong, it served the purposes I've explained. I'm not concerned with the casters' or the player's decision being smart or not regarding their careers. If they knew or not that there would be blow back from Blizzard for their actions, that's their problem at this point. I am simply focused on the reaction of the company and how I will choose to or not consume their products going forward based on it. I wasn't aware of Blizzard's policies and principles before, now I am.




Not sure what you're getting at there.




You need to look outside your circle of right-wing friends from time to time. Go look at Nike's stock and earnings numbers since their Kaepernick ad. After a year they saw something like 30% boost in sales. I think his public image is doing just fine.



And that's exactly why its an effective time and place to mount your protests.
fine but don't bitch when they get canned and banned for doing it then
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Old Oct 18, 2019, 03:40 PM   #117
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fine but don't bitch when they get canned and banned for doing it then


My criticism gets directed to the values of the company dealing the banning, but not at the fact that they banned. As private companies its within in their right to do so, but they need remember the whole world is watching and they will be judged in the public court of opinions.
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Old Oct 19, 2019, 09:50 AM   #118
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Some people have their principles but they arent the same for everyone.

There is a group of people who think Blizzard is justified in banning and letting go of the casters. The casters knew it was coming and even asked for him to say the words as they acted like little kids and hid under the desk. In any normal work environment(and make no mistake these guys are working cause they are contracted to do so) you would get fired for the same thing. If I went into a meeting at work today where Im talking to the whole company and just started spewing some political stuff I would definitely be let go too. It wouldnt matter that I was in support of China or not, political stuff that has nothing to do with the meeting is just not acceptable.

Is whats going on in China right? Nah, but this wasnt the place or platform for that to come out. The guy was a Hearthstone(I think?) champion so Im sure he could have saved his views for his own video or whatever and people would have watched.
Well said.

I think it's amusing people think they can hold some holier-than-thou attitude because they deleted an app on their computer, though.
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Old Oct 19, 2019, 12:11 PM   #119
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Quote:
Lawmakers express “deep concern” over Blizzard’s Hong Kong protest response
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/...st-player-ban/

Quote:
Hong Kong protests: NBA fans join anti-China display
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50107335
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Old Oct 19, 2019, 04:07 PM   #120
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Yeah, some people have principles and adhere to them as much as possible, believing that doing so makes the world a better place and them an honorable person. Some people lack those principles.

I like to believe I'm the former rather than the latter.
That's quite a tall horse you're sitting atop. I think people deleting a game is pretty hollow. Even hollower when you consider many of them probably didn't actually delete their account.

Wanna make a difference Mr. Principles? Volunteer at the local food shelter. Volunteer to help build safe housing for those less fortunate.

And yes, I, and my son do these things.
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