Official XBOX Series X thread

[SubCog]

Originally Posted by OverclockN'

I know, it's in the article and that's why I put could in italics. Tried to get ahead of these comments.


Eh, we don't know what it's capable of. Only what the marketing says. [email protected] is tough, and the specs of the systems aren't terribly convincing IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if we see lowered settings to achieve the 60fps though. That, I'd believe.

I bet we'll see alot of checkerboard rendering that hits 4k 60pfs.

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by SubCog

I bet we'll see alot of checkerboard rendering that hits 4k 60pfs.

I have no doubt that they could manage to 60fps to work as long as they lower settings like they've done in the past.

[GravY]

Originally Posted by SubCog

I bet we'll see alot of checkerboard rendering that hits 4k 60pfs.

DirectML is going to be huge for Xbox.

[gamefoo21]

They'll probably use upscaling with fancy post processing to make you think you are getting 4K.

*cough* DLSS *cough*

[KAC]

Seems like this will be another trash of a console.

[GravY]

Originally Posted by KAC

Seems like this will be another trash of a console.

Get the **** out of here.

[KAC]

Would be slower than current PCs and without any RT. Will probably run at 30 FPS 4K as well so not sure what is there to get excited about. We can thanks AMD for this crap just like current consoles.

[Nascar24]

I highly doubt that RT is going to be like the trash 20 series RTX!

[MyTMouse]

Originally Posted by KAC

Would be slower than current PCs and without any RT. Will probably run at 30 FPS 4K as well so not sure what is there to get excited about. We can thanks AMD for this crap just like current consoles.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about...some others in here either.

First, there are several games on the current Xbox One X that run at native 4k and this in on a system with a decent GPU and very underpowered CPU.

Now, the Xbox Series X is using a state of the art GPU from AMD that is running on RDNA 2.0 which hasn't even released yet for the PC. Using the current RDNA 1 GPU you can get about double the performance on the One X 6Tf GPU while only using about 9Tf. RDNA 2.0 is much more efficient and the Series X GPU is 12.15 Tf...it's going to be more than 2x as fast as the One X GPU...I'd expect up to maybe 3x that depending on how its used (maybe more with all the various efficiencies and new features)

Now couple all of this with faster memory and a CPU that is Zen 2 and FAR more powerful than what's in One X (Zen 3 would have been great but probably too expensive) and you'll have a system that easily does 4k/60. Think of it people, the GPU in the Series X will be more powerful than a 2080 Ti and that card is multiple times (at least in Canada) what a Series X will cost for everything.

Of course PC tech will always be at the bleeding edge and will always be faster but you also have to pay a huge amount of money for that. The Series X will be very close to bleeding edge performance for less than just a top end GPU costs. This is one of many reasons I left behind gaming PCs...consoles just destroy them for price/performance (initially) and ease of use.

Will there be games that are sub 4k (variable resolution) and poorly optimized games that struggle? of course, companies are always pushing things out too quickly and often using every graphical feature they can to wow people instead of focusing on performance.

Series X is gonna be a gaming beast and I can't wait for it...I already know my existing library of games are gonna run great on it. My guess is it sells for $499 USD which is an absolute bargain for the hardware involved

[OverclockN']

Running the latest games at native 4k without lowering a bunch of settings, dynamic resolution, or other behind the scenes tricks?

Ha...I'll believe it when I see it.

[KAC]

I will believe RDNA 2.0 when I see it. It will most likely be barely faster than a 2070/2080 given previous AMD shenanigans. If true that is not 4K60 gameplay territory.

[DeathKnight]

The Series X GPU is around 12 TFLOPS putting it about 1 TFLOP more than a 2080 Super. The most demanding games probably won't see 4K60, more like 4K30 max. Less demanding games should be no problem. Backwards compat games too. You'll see some stuff support 120Hz refresh as well.

Devs can eke more out of a fixed spec console though.

[SirBaron]

Originally Posted by MyTMouse

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about...some others in here either.

First, there are several games on the current Xbox One X that run at native 4k and this in on a system with a decent GPU and very underpowered CPU.

Now, the Xbox Series X is using a state of the art GPU from AMD that is running on RDNA 2.0 which hasn't even released yet for the PC. Using the current RDNA 1 GPU you can get about double the performance on the One X 6Tf GPU while only using about 9Tf. RDNA 2.0 is much more efficient and the Series X GPU is 12.15 Tf...it's going to be more than 2x as fast as the One X GPU...I'd expect up to maybe 3x that depending on how its used (maybe more with all the various efficiencies and new features)

Now couple all of this with faster memory and a CPU that is Zen 2 and FAR more powerful than what's in One X (Zen 3 would have been great but probably too expensive) and you'll have a system that easily does 4k/60. Think of it people, the GPU in the Series X will be more powerful than a 2080 Ti and that card is multiple times (at least in Canada) what a Series X will cost for everything.

Of course PC tech will always be at the bleeding edge and will always be faster but you also have to pay a huge amount of money for that. The Series X will be very close to bleeding edge performance for less than just a top end GPU costs. This is one of many reasons I left behind gaming PCs...consoles just destroy them for price/performance (initially) and ease of use.

Will there be games that are sub 4k (variable resolution) and poorly optimized games that struggle? of course, companies are always pushing things out too quickly and often using every graphical feature they can to wow people instead of focusing on performance.

Series X is gonna be a gaming beast and I can't wait for it...I already know my existing library of games are gonna run great on it. My guess is it sells for $499 USD which is an absolute bargain for the hardware involved

There's no way it will be faster than a 2080ti I think people need to keep some perspective. 2080 ti is 14 terraflops and costs over a grand.

Also It will be like the PS5 and run most games at 4k30fps, or something like 1600p/60fps and upscaled DLSS type of thing.

These will no doubt be much better than PS4/Xbox one, however we really need to keep the hypetrain in check.

[Nascar24]

No way, Sony says 8k/60

[SubCog]

Originally Posted by Nascar24

No way, Sony says 8k/60

Well after the PS2 was used to launch rockets, and PS3 could run 1080p output on 6 monitors simultaneously, anything is possible now!

[MyTMouse]

Originally Posted by SirBaron

There's no way it will be faster than a 2080ti I think people need to keep some perspective. 2080 ti is 14 terraflops and costs over a grand.

Also It will be like the PS5 and run most games at 4k30fps, or something like 1600p/60fps and upscaled DLSS type of thing.

These will no doubt be much better than PS4/Xbox one, however we really need to keep the hypetrain in check.

Pretty confident it will be at least the same power as a 2080 Ti if not slightly faster in some instances. Also, a stock 2080 Ti is 13.4 Tf and cost is irrelevant as Nvidia charges what it feels like and console chips will always be far cheaper because of mass numbers.

I highly doubt RDNA 2.0 will be 50% more efficient than the current RDNA but even if it's just 25% more so that puts the Series X GPU beyond almost anything in the PC space. Obviously the upcoming nvidia 3000 series GPUs will take the lead again but, again, they will cost far more than the entire Series X console.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that Series X will easily be able to pull off 4k/60 for a lot of games? The GPU is far more than 2x the power of the One X which can already run several games at native 4k and the new CPU is more than 4x as fast. The new Series X chip is gonna be far more feature filled and efficient. Microsoft ported over Gears 5 and ran it at max settings 4k/60fps without optimizing the code. I think a lot of people focus on the teraflop number and just assume it's just 2x as fast...not so.

Dynamic resolution is not console specific either...some newer PC titles have that and its a great way for games to run smoothly while , oftentimes, the resolution changes aren't noticeable. Also, I don't care if a game runs and it doesn't have ultra settings for every single thing...quite often cranking the setting to the max on a few things barely makes a tangible difference to the visuals while requiring far more computing power.

I'm not expecting a lot from the first gen of games as they are never as good as later ones when devs get a lot more time to know the hardware. I expect what we have now but most games running native 4k/60fps and more graphical features turned on. I do laugh at the noobs out there who saw numbers like 8k and 120fps and thought that would be the games we got...8k is useless to begin with and 120fps will most likely be entirely reserved for 1080p games and maybe some lesser titles with dynamic resolution.

Thanks to the law of diminishing returns and struggling to keep up with Moore's law we won't see anything that blows the upcoming hardware out of the water for a while (depending on how you define that)

[GravY]

Originally Posted by MyTMouse

Pretty confident it will be at least the same power as a 2080 Ti if not slightly faster in some instances. Also, a stock 2080 Ti is 13.4 Tf and cost is irrelevant as Nvidia charges what it feels like and console chips will always be far cheaper because of mass numbers.

I highly doubt RDNA 2.0 will be 50% more efficient than the current RDNA but even if it's just 25% more so that puts the Series X GPU beyond almost anything in the PC space. Obviously the upcoming nvidia 3000 series GPUs will take the lead again but, again, they will cost far more than the entire Series X console.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that Series X will easily be able to pull off 4k/60 for a lot of games? The GPU is far more than 2x the power of the One X which can already run several games at native 4k and the new CPU is more than 4x as fast. The new Series X chip is gonna be far more feature filled and efficient. Microsoft ported over Gears 5 and ran it at max settings 4k/60fps without optimizing the code. I think a lot of people focus on the teraflop number and just assume it's just 2x as fast...not so.

Dynamic resolution is not console specific either...some newer PC titles have that and its a great way for games to run smoothly while , oftentimes, the resolution changes aren't noticeable. Also, I don't care if a game runs and it doesn't have ultra settings for every single thing...quite often cranking the setting to the max on a few things barely makes a tangible difference to the visuals while requiring far more computing power.

I'm not expecting a lot from the first gen of games as they are never as good as later ones when devs get a lot more time to know the hardware. I expect what we have now but most games running native 4k/60fps and more graphical features turned on. I do laugh at the noobs out there who saw numbers like 8k and 120fps and thought that would be the games we got...8k is useless to begin with and 120fps will most likely be entirely reserved for 1080p games and maybe some lesser titles with dynamic resolution.

Thanks to the law of diminishing returns and struggling to keep up with Moore's law we won't see anything that blows the upcoming hardware out of the water for a while (depending on how you define that)

Not only did Gears 5 run at full 4k/60 on SX it did it at beyond the highest available PC settings. They said they can get a version running 120fps

[Treeckcold57]

Originally Posted by GravY

Not only did Gears 5 run at full 4k/60 on SX it did it at beyond the highest available PC settings. They said they can get a version running 120fps

They said it is not even optimized yet either. The next-gen consoles can have a deep optimization unlike PC. Not even a 2080 Ti can handles Assassin Odyssey at steady 60 fps.

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by Treeckcold57

They said it is not even optimized yet either. The next-gen consoles can have a deep optimization unlike PC. Not even a 2080 Ti can handles Assassin Odyssey at steady 60 fps.

Neither can an XBox One Series X. There's no facts here. We're all guessing and putting a lot of faith in Microsoft's marketing.

[SirBaron]

Originally Posted by MyTMouse

Pretty confident it will be at least the same power as a 2080 Ti if not slightly faster in some instances. Also, a stock 2080 Ti is 13.4 Tf and cost is irrelevant as Nvidia charges what it feels like and console chips will always be far cheaper because of mass numbers.

I highly doubt RDNA 2.0 will be 50% more efficient than the current RDNA but even if it's just 25% more so that puts the Series X GPU beyond almost anything in the PC space. Obviously the upcoming nvidia 3000 series GPUs will take the lead again but, again, they will cost far more than the entire Series X console.

Why do people have such a hard time understanding that Series X will easily be able to pull off 4k/60 for a lot of games? The GPU is far more than 2x the power of the One X which can already run several games at native 4k and the new CPU is more than 4x as fast. The new Series X chip is gonna be far more feature filled and efficient. Microsoft ported over Gears 5 and ran it at max settings 4k/60fps without optimizing the code. I think a lot of people focus on the teraflop number and just assume it's just 2x as fast...not so.

Dynamic resolution is not console specific either...some newer PC titles have that and its a great way for games to run smoothly while , oftentimes, the resolution changes aren't noticeable. Also, I don't care if a game runs and it doesn't have ultra settings for every single thing...quite often cranking the setting to the max on a few things barely makes a tangible difference to the visuals while requiring far more computing power.

I'm not expecting a lot from the first gen of games as they are never as good as later ones when devs get a lot more time to know the hardware. I expect what we have now but most games running native 4k/60fps and more graphical features turned on. I do laugh at the noobs out there who saw numbers like 8k and 120fps and thought that would be the games we got...8k is useless to begin with and 120fps will most likely be entirely reserved for 1080p games and maybe some lesser titles with dynamic resolution.

Thanks to the law of diminishing returns and struggling to keep up with Moore's law we won't see anything that blows the upcoming hardware out of the water for a while (depending on how you define that)

Some of the first party Microsoft games will be 60fps PURELY because many of the titles will be cross generation to start off with, so would be silly if it wasn't, with a possibility of some cross gen titles also being 60fps.

However once that cross gen period is finished most games I gurantee will be 4k30fps.

Developers care about visuals, not framerate.

People care about visuals not framerate.

we only care about framerate but we make a tiny percentage of those who even know what a framerate is.

If you can get a much better looking game by dropping the framerate in half then most will, and always have going by console history. 360/PS3 era often used below 720P because of visuals, PS4/xbox one always use lower resolution or 30fps because of visuals, PS5/XSX will use 4k30fps or less because of visuals.

That's not going to change.

PS4 can also do 4k60fps, but they dont, why?

Because the games would looke like really sharp PS3 games.

Also I want to see how your logic of a 12Terraflop console beating a 13.45 Terraflop 2080 ti. That's 1.45 terraflops less, so therefor it's automatically slower.

Also how AMD terraflops tend to be calculated tend to usually not be equal with Nvidia. Nvidia with similar rated terraflop cards tend to be faster than AMD ones.

XSX is a fast machine no doubt, semi decent CPU unlike previous generation, NVME drive, and a good GPU. Is it going to be as good as a top of the range PC of today? Pretty close, and for much less cost.

However I don't see this machine being $500 or less.

[MyTMouse]

Originally Posted by SirBaron

Some of the first party Microsoft games will be 60fps PURELY because many of the titles will be cross generation to start off with, so would be silly if it wasn't, with a possibility of some cross gen titles also being 60fps.

However once that cross gen period is finished most games I gurantee will be 4k30fps.

Developers care about visuals, not framerate.

People care about visuals not framerate.

we only care about framerate but we make a tiny percentage of those who even know what a framerate is.

If you can get a much better looking game by dropping the framerate in half then most will, and always have going by console history. 360/PS3 era often used below 720P because of visuals, PS4/xbox one always use lower resolution or 30fps because of visuals, PS5/XSX will use 4k30fps or less because of visuals.

That's not going to change.

PS4 can also do 4k60fps, but they dont, why?

Because the games would looke like really sharp PS3 games.

Also I want to see how your logic of a 12Terraflop console beating a 13.45 Terraflop 2080 ti. That's 1.45 terraflops less, so therefor it's automatically slower.

Also how AMD terraflops tend to be calculated tend to usually not be equal with Nvidia. Nvidia with similar rated terraflop cards tend to be faster than AMD ones.

XSX is a fast machine no doubt, semi decent CPU unlike previous generation, NVME drive, and a good GPU. Is it going to be as good as a top of the range PC of today? Pretty close, and for much less cost.

However I don't see this machine being $500 or less.

I agree that some games will always be 30fps because it makes more sense for some games and it easily allows the devs to push as much effects as possible to get headlines and attention. I don't need the next Elder Scrolls game to run at 60fps...30 is fine so long as the game looks incredible and run 30 solid. I don't know where you get the idea that this will be "most games" you have no idea about that.

If you want to be pedantic about it there is a 1.3Tf difference (Series X 12.15Tf and 2080 Ti 13.45Tf) between the Series X and a stock 2080 Ti which is a difference of 10.7%...you even said so yourself that not all graphics chips are created equally so equal numbers are not equal in the real world performance. This is why the Series X is far more than 2x as powerful as a 6Tf One X GPU...Digital Foundry found that using a RDNA 1 GPU only requires about 9Tf to double the performance of the One X GPU. The Series X GPU is brand new RDNA 2.0. What that will transpire to exactly we don't know yet, but this is a much more feature filled and efficient processor so it's not hard to imagine that it could make up for that 1.3Tf (10.7%) difference to a 2080 Ti

As for price I see it going this way...Microsoft is NOT going to allow Sony to have a $100 price advantage this time around so a lot of it depends on them. Sony probably doesn't want Microsoft to have too close of a system price either as most people know its a more powerful system. Microsoft has the advantage (I believe) of making the cheaper "Lockhart" system which will probably be called Xbox Series S and will likely be digital only and performance will be like the current One X...if that comes out it'll probably be $300usd. I'm not sure how Sony will price the PS5 but I don't believe it will be too cheap and I would guess $449usd at which point The Series X would be priced $499usd. I highly doubt the Series X will be higher than $599 no matter what and even at that price it'd be a bargain.

All I know is I'm excited to hook up the Series X to my 82" Samsung 4k TV

[SubCog]

I expect xbox & PS5 will be similar prices. The price of xbox's additional power will be matched by the additional cost of PS5's ssd.

Performance-wise they'll be similar. PS5 is nearly as powerful, and xbox still has a very fast ssd. We're not going to see a repeat of last-gen, where one console has a 50% performance advantage. I expect all games to be reasonably-easy to port between the two consoles.

[Nascar24]

I'm starting to think I may skip on the PS5 for a while as I am definitely picking up a new GPU this year and also picking up the Series X because I'm going to have a $250 discount on it.

[MyTMouse]

Originally Posted by SubCog

I expect xbox & PS5 will be similar prices. The price of xbox's additional power will be matched by the additional cost of PS5's ssd.

Performance-wise they'll be similar. PS5 is nearly as powerful, and xbox still has a very fast ssd. We're not going to see a repeat of last-gen, where one console has a 50% performance advantage. I expect all games to be reasonably-easy to port between the two consoles.

Price wise, yah, I don't think there'll be a big difference between the two. Sony has a slightly cheaper CPU/GPU but they went more expensive on the SSD and controller. Plus I believe that Sony had to overclock the PS5 as much as possible after Microsoft went public with their more powerful system. I believe that Sony maybe had to up the quality on their thermal design after.

While there won't be a 50% power difference I do believe the Series X is still fairly more powerful. AFAIK they're basically using the same chip (but I haven't heard if the PS% uses the same feature set like VRS for example) but the Series X has 56 shaders vs the PS5 36 and that's a big difference. Sony countered this by cranking up the max clock on the PS5 but it's still 18.2% slower on raw power (12.15Tf vs 10.28Tf). Also because of the power share technology of PS5 it cannot run max clocks on GPU and CPU you have to choose one or the other. If they go for max CPU then the GPU clocks go down and vise versa. Considering both the CPU and GPU are already slower you will have a system that will either be significantly slower CPU or GPU.

Games will be super easy to port between the two because their architecture is almost identical. Multiplat games will likely be targeted for Series X first and then just have the quality turned down a tad for the PS5 kinda like the One X vs PS4 Pro

[OverclockN']

Games will be super easy to port between the two because their architecture is almost identical. Multiplat games will likely be targeted for Series X first and then just have the quality turned down a tad for the PS5 kinda like the One X vs PS4 Pro

Maybe, but the huge downside to the series X is that it still doesn't have any exclusive games. The Playstation exclusives are downright amazing. It doesn't matter how fast the Series X is, it'll still never be able to run those games.

[SubCog]

I wouldn't expect to see a ton of ground-breaking PS5 exclusives in the first 2 years. imo, by the time we see a ton of really amazing PS5 exclusives, xbox will be rolling out nextgen exclusives too.

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by SubCog

I wouldn't expect to see a ton of ground-breaking PS5 exclusives in the first 2 years. imo, by the time we see a ton of really amazing PS5 exclusives, xbox will be rolling out nextgen exclusives too.

What exclusives? They're all on PC. Well...I suppose that's not fair. I would assume anyone buying an Xbox Series X won't have the PC to run the games on in the first place.

[SubCog]

Originally Posted by OverclockN'

What exclusives? They're all on PC. Well...I suppose that's not fair. I would assume anyone buying an Xbox Series X won't have the PC to run the games on in the first place.

Well, exclusively not on Playstation or Nintendo.

Honestly I think people make too big of a deal about the xbox vs pc thing. If you have a high end PC, then you prolly don't need an xbox, and that's okay. Honestly I'd love to see the xbox and windows ecosystems converge anyway, and I hope that's about to happen in this generation.

If xbox series x has strong m+k support, and gets all the big PC games I want to play, and runs them at smooth framerates, I'll probably switch away from PC gaming... even if xbox graphics are worse. I'm turning 40 this year, and I just don't have time to properly maintain a gaming PC anymore.

Frankly I don't really care about exclusives anyway, as I have an xbone, ps4, & switch anyway. I suppose that puts me in an awkward caste of people who don't care at all about exclusivity.

[SirBaron]

It's also been on the rumour mill that Sony is also slowly creeping towards PC releases of their first party stuff, but we shall see. Horizon Zero Dawn I think is a tester for Sony.

[Trunks0]

I still think Sony's plan with PC release's is to tease in people to Sony franchises that if they want to play the next game in a given series, they are going to need to jump over to a PS5.

As for the will the next gen consoles be able to pull off 4k60fps? 100% they will as they are going to be packing near bleeding edge PC tech in a closed system that can be optimized for in a way we almost never see on PC.