Official XBOX Series X thread

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by jimjobob

Ecosystem, game rentals, resale market, price.... There’s plenty of reasons for the console to exist.

He's thinking the same way I am. As a PC gamer, there is absolutely zero reason to own an XBox these days just for gaming. I bought an XBox One when it was released and only own two games, Forza 6 and 7. One of which is now on PC.

XBox has no exclusives. It still has some use for people with very low spec computers, and for people that want to game in a living room and not build another PC. But everything on an XBox is available on PC (backward compatibility excluded) and usually cheaper.

[Sasquach]

Originally Posted by OverclockN'

He's thinking the same way I am. As a PC gamer, there is absolutely zero reason to own an XBox these days just for gaming. I bought an XBox One when it was released and only own two games, Forza 6 and 7. One of which is now on PC.

XBox has no exclusives. It still has some use for people with very low spec computers, and for people that want to game in a living room and not build another PC. But everything on an XBox is available on PC (backward compatibility excluded) and usually cheaper.

On the flip side, the cost of entry is typically cheaper with a console vs PC.

You CAN get a PC as cheap or cheaper to run something the console can....but it'll end up looking like ass and running like garbage in comparison.

[SubCog]

Actually, if ms does what I think they're going to do, I may give up PC gaming entirely. I really think they're going to make a mouse & keyboard play, so that you can use your xbox basically as a PC, but without the hassle of drivers, hardware updates, etc.

I'll still keep a PC around for older games (like ut2k4!). But I find PC gaming to be a headache these days, and I'd happily switch to a desktop game console if it uses mouse & keyboard controls, runs at high framerates, and plays the vast majority of PC games.

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by Sasquach

On the flip side, the cost of entry is typically cheaper with a console vs PC.

You CAN get a PC as cheap or cheaper to run something the console can....but it'll end up looking like ass and running like garbage in comparison.

Totally agree. I addressed that as well.

It still has some use for people with very low spec computers, and for people that want to game in a living room and not build another PC.

[Ziklitschli]

I think I saw people building gtx 1060 pcs with for xbox one xs price, with better cpu actually because it's really hard to get a worse one. The benchmarks showed that the old close to the metal mantra doesn't apply anymore and console don't have that much advantage on specs, except 1st party titles maybe. I'll find the video later, think even Digital Foundry had one but not sure.

You end up with a better machine where you also have a choice ie instead of playing the game on medium details with some stupid 3200x1800 dynamic res, variable rate shading, temporal reconstruction, motion blur, chromatic abberation and film grain where due to object settings everything morphs 3m away like an lsd trip and shadow draw themself like a live painting, you can go for 1080p or 1440p with proper detail settings etc. Add tens of thousands of games from all history, sims, strategies, fpss with mouse and kb, mods, cfg settings, free remakes/ remasters and, last but not least, all the functionality of a proper pc.

Completly pointless box for me.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

I think I saw people building gtx 1060 pcs with for xbox one xs price, with better cpu actually because it's really hard to get a worse one. The benchmarks showed that the old close to the metal mantra doesn't apply anymore and console don't have that much advantage on specs, except 1st party titles maybe. I'll find the video later, think even Digital Foundry had one but not sure.

You end up with a better machine where you also have a choice ie instead of playing the game on medium details with some stupid 3200x1800 dynamic res, variable rate shading, temporal reconstruction, motion blur, chromatic abberation and film grain where due to object settings everything morphs 3m away like an lsd trip and shadow draw themself like a live painting, you can go for 1080p or 1440p with proper detail settings etc. Add tens of thousands of games from all history, sims, strategies, fpss with mouse and kb, mods, cfg settings, free remakes/ remasters and, last but not least, all the functionality of a proper pc.

Completly pointless box for me.

A 1060 PC is a bit of a stretch for the OneX. 1070 though is probably close given OneX performance vs my old 1080.

That said, I did just pick up a 9400F system with a 1660ti as a gift for $500 that should be about on par. Could have gotten a OneX for $350 at the same time though.

[Nascar24]

One X can be had for $299 right now.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...one_x_1tb.html

[SubCog]

Originally Posted by Nascar24

One X can be had for $299 right now.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...one_x_1tb.html

I saw black friday deals for the same price. I would totally jump on one, except that the new xbox is coming out next year. $300 is alot for a console that will only be in the limelight for a year.

[Ziklitschli]

Oh yes the gpu market is pathological now and might be harder to do equivalent pc now as pc has some base cost and xbox price went down. Anyway here's one of the videos vs 1060:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGa_7Ds13Ls

In the end I'd rather have even a 1050 pc than xbox tbh, would be weaker but I wouldn't suffer the lower detail settings that are necessary to keep that crap cpu afloat. Not to mention, a lot of x games use base xbox version settings with just cranked up res so low quality AO etc etc.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by OverclockN'

He's thinking the same way I am. As a PC gamer, there is absolutely zero reason to own an XBox these days just for gaming. I bought an XBox One when it was released and only own two games, Forza 6 and 7. One of which is now on PC.

XBox has no exclusives. It still has some use for people with very low spec computers, and for people that want to game in a living room and not build another PC. But everything on an XBox is available on PC (backward compatibility excluded) and usually cheaper.

All of those reasons save for price are still valid with a good PC. As far as the Xbox one goes, I owned one for a couple years and didn’t play a single game on it because the quality was just so bad but the OneX is a whole different story. I’ve gotten plenty of use out of it. In fact before I got my current monitor, price being equal and no RTX features and I would pick up games one the OneX over PC for convenience and HDR. (To be fair, I do have the latest Xim paired with a mechanical Rocat Sova and G903 for M/K games on it). Still it’s a damn good experience for a console.

[Ziklitschli]

Originally Posted by jimjobob

A 1060 PC is a bit of a stretch for the OneX. 1070 though is probably close given OneX performance vs my old 1080.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-spec...ne-x-gpu.c2977

1060 is 95% of x1x gpu and 1070 is 127%, and they put x1x gpu above rx 580 which I'm not really sure is correct.

[SubCog]

It's not really fair to compare gpu's between PCs and consoles. One of the big selling points for consoles is that that devs optimize the hell out of their games for that specific console hardware.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-spec...ne-x-gpu.c2977

1060 is 95% of x1x gpu and 1070 is 127%, and they put x1x gpu above rx 580 which I'm not really sure is correct.

I’m talking real world performance when playing the games not raw power. The gaming experience on a OneX is barely less than that of a PC with a 1080.

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by jimjobob

I’m talking real world performance when playing the games not raw power. The gaming experience on a OneX is barely less than that of a PC with a 1080.

I haven't seen anything anywhere to convince me of that.

[Ziklitschli]

Originally Posted by jimjobob

I’m talking real world performance when playing the games not raw power. The gaming experience on a OneX is barely less than that of a PC with a 1080.

No it's not, enough to watch a few DF videos to see how far settings are rolled back and the middling/ dynamic resolutions.

The video I posted, while not directly benchmarking, shows 1060 having better perf and settings than x1x, it's nowhere near close to 1080.

@SubCog yes it used to be like that but it's not anymore. Plenty of videos of people playing at console settings, multiplatforms on consoles especially perform about right at the expected level.

I watched I think 90% of Digital Foundry videos last 2 years because of my PS4 pro and the only area where consoles seem to actually punch above their weight is cpu which benefits the most from reduced overhead, draw calls etc.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

No it's not, enough to watch a few DF videos to see how far settings are rolled back and the middling/ dynamic resolutions.

The video I posted, while not directly benchmarking, shows 1060 having better perf and settings than x1x, it's nowhere near close to 1080.

@SubCog yes it used to be like that but it's not anymore. Plenty of videos of people playing at console settings, multiplatforms on consoles especially perform about right at the expected level.

I watched I think 90% of Digital Foundry videos last 2 years because of my PS4 pro and the only area where consoles seem to actually punch above their weight is cpu which benefits the most from reduced overhead, draw calls etc.

The video you posted was only comparing old games that had OneX support patched in.

I had a 1080 and OneX at the same time and going back and forth on play anywhere games, it really wasn't that far off.

[Ziklitschli]

Originally Posted by jimjobob

The video you posted was only comparing old games that had OneX support patched in.

I had a 1080 and OneX at the same time and going back and forth on play anywhere games, it really wasn't that far off.

I don't find this worth arguing but maybe I'll check for videos after work, I'll take these over your impressions tbh. Not a dig on you btw but a lot on consoles is hidden behind a film grain or tailored post process or sth, plus dynamic res looks good most oof the time until it doesn't, surely if you catched it on screenshot at the right moment the comparision wouldn't be so close. Also, a lot of ultra settings are subtle, full precision upgrades that don't jump at you but just add up to a more refined general IQ so you might miss lower setting if you don't put much attention into it when switching (except render distances, lod switches and shadow draw distances etc which are often pathetic on consoles this gen and quadrupled or sth on pc).

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

I don't find this worth arguing but maybe I'll check for videos after work, I'll take these over your impressions tbh. Not a dig on you btw but a lot on consoles is hidden behind a film grain or tailored post process or sth, plus dynamic res looks good most oof the time until it doesn't, surely if you catched it on screenshot at the right moment the comparision wouldn't be so close. Also, a lot of ultra settings are subtle, full precision upgrades that don't jump at you but just add up to a more refined general IQ so you might miss lower setting if you don't put much attention into it when switching (except render distances, lod switches and shadow draw distances etc which are often pathetic on consoles this gen and quadrupled or sth on pc).

I’m not referring to measured differences, I’m referring to the actual user experience. If the differences are so subtle that they take side by side comparison or even actual pixel counting to tell apart, that’s not that far off. The experience was generally better on the 1080 PC but I was amazed by how close it actually was. There was actually a level on Gears 5 that looked every bit as good and actually ran better. (Likely due more to better optimizations than any thing but the end result is what it is)
I don’t generally use DLSS because I don’t like the end result but if it looked the same, I would not care that they were using “tricks” to get that result. So to summarize, while a 1060 PC might come close or surpass the power of a OneX due to a better CPU on whatever PC, the actual user experience on a game that was designed to take advantage of the X from the start will be better.

[SirBaron]

Microsoft isn't really "bothered" by putting games on PC at the moment as they're selling a ecosystem, and not hardware.

They're buying goodwill and loyalty which is a long game that will probably pay off pretty well. (i.e. Sony backtracking slowly on crossplay due to MS)

Also there's a lot of people that like the xbox branding, and people who really just can't be arsed with PC's and want a easy plug and play system in their living room.

Of course a 12 teraflop console is pretty damn powerful now, but in 1-2 years will be outclassed by middle-high end GPUs until they release their next box.

For microsoft as long as you're using Gamepass on PC or buying games on XBOX they're winning either way, as they know people (like me) just don't want a xbox, but I do have gamepass so they're getting money that otherwise I wouldn't be giving them.

[KAC]

When can we pre order this?

[Nascar24]

Originally Posted by KAC

When can we pre order this?

As soon as I am done with your mum, it could be a while.

[Jay20016]

Originally Posted by SirBaron

Microsoft isn't really "bothered" by putting games on PC at the moment as they're selling a ecosystem, and not hardware.

They're buying goodwill and loyalty which is a long game that will probably pay off pretty well. (i.e. Sony backtracking slowly on crossplay due to MS)

Also there's a lot of people that like the xbox branding, and people who really just can't be arsed with PC's and want a easy plug and play system in their living room.

Of course a 12 teraflop console is pretty damn powerful now, but in 1-2 years will be outclassed by middle-high end GPUs until they release their next box.

For microsoft as long as you're using Gamepass on PC or buying games on XBOX they're winning either way, as they know people (like me) just don't want a xbox, but I do have gamepass so they're getting money that otherwise I wouldn't be giving them.

The Xbox One launch to what it is today is a perfect example of a company that took their beating and learned from it to be stronger afterwards. One could argue that had things worked out differently and they were at the top, a lot of the good will stuff (BC, Play Anywhere, Cross-play, etc.) might not have happened, but who knows. What I can say is that a lot of their actions are benefiting us gamers.

That I have my entire library of games and accessories for the Xbox One available at launch on the new system is a great thing. For them, it solves a lot of the lack luster launch titles that most consoles have (albeit apart from the 1 title that moves units) and helps us gamers not feel so bad about moving up to the next generation sooner. You could argue that its because the new consoles are basically PCs at this point, and you'd be right, but it doesn't make it any less of a win for us gamers.

[Johnmcl7]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

Oh yes the gpu market is pathological now and might be harder to do equivalent pc now as pc has some base cost and xbox price went down. Anyway here's one of the videos vs 1060:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGa_7Ds13Ls

In the end I'd rather have even a 1050 pc than xbox tbh, would be weaker but I wouldn't suffer the lower detail settings that are necessary to keep that crap cpu afloat. Not to mention, a lot of x games use base xbox version settings with just cranked up res so low quality AO etc etc.

It's rarely mentioned but the poor CPU in the Xbox One is my main issue with it and I've been surprised how poorly games run on it compared to the old i7 3930K/GTX 1070 system I was using.

Originally Posted by SubCog

It's not really fair to compare gpu's between PCs and consoles. One of the big selling points for consoles is that that devs optimize the hell out of their games for that specific console hardware.

That isn't the case any more and hasn't been for some time with the move to more commodity hardware (especially the weak CPUs), increasing use of middleware, complex development and more resource heavy operating systems. It's particularly noticeable going between the PC and Xbox on Play Anywhere titles which even on the X are a noticeable downgrade from medium gaming PC whereas consoles before the Xbox One/PS4 generation could punch well above their weight.

I've also noticed '4K' is defined differently for PCs and consoles which makes consoles look more powerful than they are. For a PC to be rated as 4K capable they have to manage a genuine 4K resolution with a solid and consistent framerate with high IQ. 4K on a console though only needs to be a 4K output, it doesn't matter if it's a ropey framerate, the IQ is dialled down or best yet it's not even 4K as is often the case instead since there's a lot of upscaling.

[jima13]

Originally Posted by OverclockN'

He's thinking the same way I am. As a PC gamer, there is absolutely zero reason to own an XBox these days just for gaming. I bought an XBox One when it was released and only own two games, Forza 6 and 7. One of which is now on PC.

XBox has no exclusives. It still has some use for people with very low spec computers, and for people that want to game in a living room and not build another PC. But everything on an XBox is available on PC (backward compatibility excluded) and usually cheaper.

You know, I have 3 1080ti's, 2 980ti's and a 2080ti and I still do most of my gaming on my 75" 4k tv using the xbox x...I'm even in the process of building a new AMD system I plan on moving the 2080 to which will then be my gaming pc...

Happy New Year!

[OverclockN']

Originally Posted by jima13

You know, I have 3 1080ti's, 2 980ti's and a 2080ti and I still do most of my gaming on my 75" 4k tv using the xbox x...I'm even in the process of building a new AMD system I plan on moving the 2080 to which will then be my gaming pc...

Happy New Year!

Ok?

Happy New Year!

[LordHawkwind]

I prefer playing sports and racing games on the Xbone X but still use my PC for first person shooters as I'm more used to a keyboard & mouse than a controller. There were basically two things that attracted me to the XBone X;

1. HDR. It really is a game changer if you have a decent 4K HDR TV. TBH I personally struggle to tell the difference between 1440p (my PC) and 4K (TV) but HDR I notice straight away.

2. A 4K blu-ray player. Can be absolute amazing with the right 4K blu-ray.

Also there are times where I just fancy playing in the lounge on my TV and can't be bothered using the PC in my study when I'm feeling a bit lazy. I don't understand why they can't both coexist providing you have the money of course. As I've said if Scarlett comes in at circa $£400 I'm all in.

[Ziklitschli]

I have a PS4 pro and have a lot of fun with it still, it's only the Xbox that became pointless heh. The pro has its serious issues like it's stupidly loud, the lods are just as bad and the pad is worse especially for fpss but at least it has exclusives to differentiate it from PCs.

I mean, Halo Infinite is coming to PC (afaik), what's the point. Just spend the money on a new gpu and plug it to the TV. The only group that would seem to be the target is people scared of installing drivers, surely not mighty PC enthusiasts, you're giving up control over vsync, film grain, res, detail settings, frame rate, AA, AF, mods, not sure for what exactly.

[jimjobob]

Originally Posted by Ziklitschli

I have a PS4 pro and have a lot of fun with it still, it's only the Xbox that became pointless heh. The pro has its serious issues like it's stupidly loud, the lods are just as bad and the pad is worse especially for fpss but at least it has exclusives to differentiate it from PCs.

I mean, Halo Infinite is coming to PC (afaik), what's the point. Just spend the money on a new gpu and plug it to the TV. The only group that would seem to be the target is people scared of installing drivers, surely not mighty PC enthusiasts, you're giving up control over vsync, film grain, res, detail settings, frame rate, AA, AF, mods, not sure for what exactly.

More games on Gamepass!

There’s a lot of people here that have a 2080ti yet still play some games on the Xbox One and OneX. If it was pointless for people that also game on PC, that wouldn’t be the case. Just because it’s not enough of a value to you for you to justify fitting it into your budget, doesn’t mean there isn’t value to others.

Some games aren’t cross platform, some games aren’t much different on PC, some games have crappy PC ports, some games have delayed PC ports, Some older games don’t have PC ports, some people like to sell their games, some people rent games, some people buy used games, some people prefer physical media, some people don’t have proper HDR monitors, it’s easier to travel with,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I could go on and on. To sum it up though, if their wasn’t any value to it, the market wouldn’t exist.

[Ziklitschli]

People having 2080ti playing Xbox is such a small subset of a small subset of people that I'm not sure it's even worth mentioning. Not to mention, whims of the rich heh. The reasons you mentioned sound really weak tbh for a major product like that and most are covered by PS4 just as well.

99% of people would be better buying a PlayStation or PC. The 1% is a mystery heh.

Anyway just an opinion (solidly grounded though heh), I'm off to drink a full tea glass of booze and Happy New Year to you all with your pointless xboxes To even argue this is a sign of a good life really.

[GravY]

From the leaks the Series X is looking very impressive. The ps5 not so much.