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Old May 28, 2020, 01:56 PM   #31
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Meteor_of_War
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I've seen your latest build thread and I have the budget for something along those lines. I won't be needing an aftermarket cooler though, and still not sure about an M.2 drive either.

Anyway, I'm set on the 3700X for now, but why did you go with the Gigabyte and not let's say an Asus board? I'm reading some horror stories of failed BIOS updates for the Aorus...
I would strongly suggest at least a modest aftermarket cooler that is considered better than the stock Wraith Prism cooler that comes with the Ryzen 3700X. These Ryzen CPUs are heavily dependent on good cooling to maintain their rated performance, even if you don't plan to overclock. Just my suggestion though, as I'm sure the stock cooler is plenty adequate. I just prefer having the extra cooling for whenever it might be needed. My 3700X easily boosts to 4.3GHz at stock settings with the Noctua, but I did not test it with the stock cooler to see if there was any difference in performance. For all I know could be fine with it.

As Higgy10 mentioned, the M.2 drives are cheap enough that if you need a new boot drive might as well go with an M.2 NVMe drive. However, if you already have a SATA3 SSD to use for your operating system you may want to save the money and stick with that. I decided to go with the M.2 NVMe because if I was going to be installing a new build of Windows I might as well do it on the current drive technology. ATTO drive benchmark has this Intel 660p at 3x the read speeds of my old SATA3 SSD, and its definitely noticeable during regular use. Only paid $73 for it (512GB) so I think it was a small price to pay for a nice and noticeable speed upgrade, and save a drive slot in my case. But YMMV as far as it being worth it.

As for why I chose Gigabyte for the motherboard, well couple of reasons. Firstly, I have been using ASUS for my last few builds and honestly just felt like trying a different manufacturer this time. Secondly, the Aorus Elite was getting good reviews from all my trusted sources, had exactly what I wanted in a motherboard (no more, no less), was the right price at only $200, and most importantly was the only one that managed to come back in stock out of the few X570 boards I was looking at. Personally I had no issue whatsoever flashing the BIOS to latest version. Was super easy to do. In my experience, unless there's a known defect most of these "horror stories" are due to user error, freak incidents, and few and far between. Problem is though, you hear mostly the negatives online since they are the ones that actually take the time to go and complain. Users that aren't having any problems seldom need to talk about it.

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Old May 28, 2020, 02:08 PM   #32
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@MoW do you think this is a good RAM choice?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MNJP6RW?th=1
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Old May 28, 2020, 02:13 PM   #33
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@MoW do you think this is a good RAM choice?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MNJP6RW?th=1
Specs on those looks like its 3200MHz CL16.

I got 3600MHz CL16 for my build. If I had been going for 3200MHz, I would have looked for a lower CL like 14. So basically my research was:

3200MHz = try to find sticks that are CL14 for a good price
3600MHz = try to find sticks that are CL16 for a good price

Probably splitting hairs honestly, but for your money you want to get every bit of performance you can. Also, always a good idea to make sure they are listed on the QVL for whatever motherboard you get. Either the motherboard or RAM vendor's QVL. This will assure you the XMP profile will be available in BIOS.
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Old May 28, 2020, 02:39 PM   #34
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Specs on those looks like its 3200MHz CL16.

I got 3600MHz CL16 for my build. If I had been going for 3200MHz, I would have looked for a lower CL like 14. So basically my research was:

3200MHz = try to find sticks that are CL14 for a good price
3600MHz = try to find sticks that are CL16 for a good price

Probably splitting hairs honestly, but for your money you want to get every bit of performance you can. Also, always a good idea to make sure they are listed on the QVL for whatever motherboard you get. Either the motherboard or RAM vendor's QVL. This will assure you the XMP profile will be available in BIOS.
whats the speed difference? Ive got 3600 but cl18 i think
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Old May 28, 2020, 03:21 PM   #35
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whats the speed difference? Ive got 3600 but cl18 i think
I couldn't tell you unless I had a 3600MHz CL18 kit to compare with.

All I know is the lower CL the better. So I just went with the lowest I could afford which was CL16.

Honestly in most use cases you will not see a difference. We are all just crazy and spend extra money on things that don't really matter.
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Old May 28, 2020, 03:32 PM   #36
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Well that's a 2-month wait for what gains, exactly? Is it just synthetic benchmarks? Or real-world gains that will be neglectible for me anyway, coming from an i7-860?
Good question but more speed is always good, especially for the same price.

What res do you play at?
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Old May 28, 2020, 03:50 PM   #37
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Good question but more speed is always good, especially for the same price.

What res do you play at?
1440p 60hz. Mostly Hearthstone in windowed mode lol.
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Old May 28, 2020, 04:19 PM   #38
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1440p 60hz. Mostly Hearthstone in windowed mode lol.
Hmm, not terribly demanding.
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Old May 28, 2020, 09:26 PM   #39
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Specs on those looks like its 3200MHz CL16.

I got 3600MHz CL16 for my build. If I had been going for 3200MHz, I would have looked for a lower CL like 14. So basically my research was:

3200MHz = try to find sticks that are CL14 for a good price
3600MHz = try to find sticks that are CL16 for a good price

Probably splitting hairs honestly, but for your money you want to get every bit of performance you can. Also, always a good idea to make sure they are listed on the QVL for whatever motherboard you get. Either the motherboard or RAM vendor's QVL. This will assure you the XMP profile will be available in BIOS.
3200 CL14-14-14-14 and 3600 CL16-16-16-16 are basically equivalent ratings. One is running higher frequency at looser timings, and the other lower frequency at tighter timings, but if you do the math the memory access time in nanoseconds comes out almost identical for both. Essentially, if you buy a kit with one of those ratings, it should be able to do the other settings without issue, so the only major difference is what XMP settings they come programmed with.

Note that 3600 CL16-18-18 is a step down from both of them though.


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whats the speed difference? Ive got 3600 but cl18 i think
It's kind of hard to make blanket statements because it depends what scenarios you're comparing, and exactly what applications you are looking at. If it's XMP on a CL18 stick to a fully tweaked Samsung b-die running 3600 CL14 with tight timings, then it can be maybe 20-25% difference in some applications. If you're comparing tweaked settings on the CL18 sticks then the difference is smaller, maybe only 5-10%.

It varies a lot application to application. Some show no memory sensitivity at all. Other things like games do seem to benefit reasonably from faster memory/tighter timings. However, in games it's also only really going to matter if you're not GPU limited.
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Old May 29, 2020, 01:22 PM   #40
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I have ordered a 512MB m.2 drive but it just dawned on me that it will make my goal of preserving my current Windows instal all the more difficult - I currently have a 1TB SSD with a 256GB OS partition (MBR type) which I want to preserve and make bootable on the m2 drive running on UEFI bios. My current mobo does not support UEFI at all, so my Win10 install is only currently bootable on a legacy BIOS.

So how do I go about this? I imagine I can try the following, but please anyone correct me if I'm wrong on any of these steps:

0) Make a full clone backup of my current SSD, just in case

1) Uninstall all chipset drivers, turn off the old PC and plug the SSD into my new mobo (with the unformatted M2 drive already in place)

2) Clone the OS partition from the SSD onto the M2 using something like Clonezilla. Do I clone just the OS partition, or also the boot partition (I assume it's the boot partition as it's hidden and marked as Active) with the size of cca 550MB?

3) Try to apply this guide to my situation to make the old partition bootable on the new drive, converting it to GPT somehow, using a Windows Recovery USB.

4) Pray to God it a) boots up and b) everything works inside Windows as it should


Obviously, point 3 is the one I'm the most unclear on, but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old May 29, 2020, 04:51 PM   #41
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I have ordered a 512MB m.2 drive....
What brand? Samsung data tools should handle that I would think.
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Old May 29, 2020, 05:26 PM   #42
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Intel, same model as MoW did.
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Old May 29, 2020, 05:30 PM   #43
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Intel, same model as MoW did.
Ah, ok, do they have any data migration software?
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Old May 29, 2020, 05:54 PM   #44
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Even if they do, not sure it's intended for BIOS-to-UEFI migrations...
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Old May 29, 2020, 06:19 PM   #45
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Intel, same model as MoW did.
could you spring for the wd black? there was a pretty good deal on slickdeals for one
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Old May 29, 2020, 06:22 PM   #46
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Too late and I'm in the EU. Still, a different make won't address my BIOS-to-UEFI migration issue I'm afraid.
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Old May 29, 2020, 06:34 PM   #47
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I've always just done clean installs of Windows each time I did anew PC build, so I have no advice to give in migrating an OS. I think its the best idea with the least chance of issues.

I'd just say, like others have mentioned make sure to do a full backup beforehand, and go in with the expectation it may not work.
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Old Jun 1, 2020, 04:49 AM   #48
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Do yourself a favor and do clean install, its fast (4minutes i bet) and easy. Also gets rid-off all the garbage collected.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 05:07 AM   #49
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Wasn't as smooth a transition as I had hoped for - apparently, both cloning solutions I tried will make any cloned partiion a primary one so you have to account for that and use not only mbr2gpt.exe but also bcdboot.exe on the new drive - but I managed to preserve my Win10 and it's working flawlessly on the new build.

Now to sort out the issue with the rather noisy (when ramped up) Wraith Prism cooler - just ordered an Artcic Freezer 34 Duo.
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Old Jun 8, 2020, 12:07 PM   #50
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Do yourself a favor and do clean install, its fast (4minutes i bet) and easy. Also gets rid-off all the garbage collected.
Its not loading windows that's the problem, its all the other programs you have to load. Takes hours in my case.
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Old Jun 10, 2020, 02:52 PM   #51
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Artcic Freezer 34 Duo running nice and quiet, but the temps with normal use (basically just watching Twitch) are still around 45-50c, only slightly better than with the Wraith Prism. I guess that's expected?
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Old Jun 11, 2020, 09:09 AM   #52
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Artcic Freezer 34 Duo running nice and quiet, but the temps with normal use (basically just watching Twitch) are still around 45-50c, only slightly better than with the Wraith Prism. I guess that's expected?
What monitoring program are you using? I don't think they all give accurate readings on Ryzen 3000 series. For example on my system HWiNFO and MSI Afterburner report temps like you said, 45-50c during light use. But Ryzen Master would report low 30's at the same time.

Anyways yes, that's pretty normal temps for light use on these CPUs with aftermarket coolers. I was unsure too at first but from researching online seems a lot of people report the same. More cores on a smaller 7nm die just run a bit hotter. But check your temps under load while in games, I bet you never crack 60C. As long as you're not nearing high 80's or low 90's it's totally fine.

Also one other thing, don't forget to play around with your fan curve settings in BIOS.
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Old Jun 12, 2020, 08:29 AM   #53
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What monitoring program are you using? I don't think they all give accurate readings on Ryzen 3000 series. For example on my system HWiNFO and MSI Afterburner report temps like you said, 45-50c during light use. But Ryzen Master would report low 30's at the same time.

Anyways yes, that's pretty normal temps for light use on these CPUs with aftermarket coolers. I was unsure too at first but from researching online seems a lot of people report the same. More cores on a smaller 7nm die just run a bit hotter. But check your temps under load while in games, I bet you never crack 60C. As long as you're not nearing high 80's or low 90's it's totally fine.

Also one other thing, don't forget to play around with your fan curve settings in BIOS.
I'm monitoring the temps via Ryzen Master. Yeah in games I don't go above 65C. Just today I had to disconnect one of the Arctic fans due to a weird rattle that would occur when my temps got too high and the cooler would kick into higher gear. It only lasts a few seconds but gets annoying fast when repeated every few minutes during a gaming session. May look into it further later but I'm pretty sure it was installed correctly. In any case the temps are not really different with just the intake CPU fan running.

BTW is there no other way than BIOS to control the fans? The only other way I found to set up fan speed profile/curve is via Asus AI Suite 3 which reports temps 5C lower than RM, so not sure how reliable that is at all for anything...
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Last edited by globalist : Jun 12, 2020 at 08:47 AM.
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Old Jun 12, 2020, 08:50 AM   #54
Meteor_of_War
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Originally Posted by globalist View Post
I'm monitoring the temps via Ryzen Master. Yeah in games I don't go above 65C. Just today I had to disconnect one of the Arctic fans due to a rattle that would occur when my temps got too high and the cooler would kick into higher gear. May look into it further later but I'm pretty sure it was installed correctly. In any case the temps are not really different with just the intake CPU fan running.

BTW is there no other way than BIOS to control the fans? The only other way I found to set up fan speed profile/curve is via Asus AI Suite 3 which reports temps 5C lower than RM, so not sure how reliable that is at all for anything...
Not sure I remember which motherboard you went with, but I'd guess they have a software utility suite to download which has some form of a fan control program.

For me the BIOS fan control setting works just fine though. I don't see why you'd need anything more than that, and just use any HW monitoring tool to check fan speeds.
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