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Old Mar 15, 2004, 01:56 AM   #1
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Nakor Allthumbs
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Default Why use winrar?

I decided to back up a couple of episodes of tripping the rift that i recorded using my tv wonder. I decided to use the cdr format because i have a buttload of cdrs, and dvd -+r disk are still too expensive to be casually used. Since the episodes i have are right around 1 gig, i decided to use winrar to archive the files, and compress them, but when i sat thru the excessively long archiving process, it barely compressed the file. Why is it such a popular format, if it barely compresses a 1,034,587Kb file to 999 MB? Am i just ignorant, or am i just giving the compression of files too much due?
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 02:03 AM   #2
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It's a market reality

It decompresses ACE (I freakin' hate ACE by the way)

It can archive each file into an individual archive

It can archive in pre-determined "chunks" of a specific size

People on GameCopyWorld use it, so I have to
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 02:16 AM   #3
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Cool

You can't compress something that is already highly compressed like mpeg video. The bits are already arranged as efficiently as possible.

Try compressing some exe files or database files and see what happens.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 02:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skynet
You can't compress something that is already highly compressed like mpeg video. The bits are already arranged as efficiently as possible.
Spot on.

Make a file in notepad, copy and paste a whole heap of raw text in there - say, 100mb - and compress that. That should get you about 10:1 compression.

Or.. try compressing a bitmap.

You're trying to compress a compressed object, so you wont get much compression.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 02:29 AM   #5
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so i am ignorant. Thanks for the replies.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 02:59 AM   #6
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RAR > ZIP.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 03:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by pharoh
so i am ignorant. Thanks for the replies.
Hey - it's no big deal. Most of us have been there one time or another.

Sometimes even if you don't get a lot of compression, it is convenient to
archive stuff all into one file for emailing or FTP or something like that.

There are lots of reasons to use Archiving software, even if the compression
ratios are not all that great.

For instance, I use Norton Ghost to archive / backup my system and sometimes
it does not compress very much. But that is fine because all I want to do is have
one big archive that contains all my files so I can put it on a DVD-RW disk and
have it handy if I need it. I can always use the Windows interface for GHOST
to access individual files if I wish.

Of all the archives, WinRar has a lot of great options, and there is no reason
not to use it if you like the program.

Good luck with learning about the archive stuff - hopefully it will all become
easier to get into the more you work on it.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 06:24 AM   #8
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i'll just burn them to dvd. It's no big deal, i just have a buttload of cd-r disk, and only about 30 dvd -r disk. figured i'd save the dvds till i really wanted to use them.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 06:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by pharoh
It's no big deal, i just have a buttload of cd-r disk
In his best "Beavis and Butthead" voice:

You said buttload...

uhuh uhuh uhuh...



(glad you got it figured. That's one reason I like DVD-RW's, though)
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 11:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by _leech_
RAR > ZIP.
ACE > RAR > ZIP.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 11:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by brc64
ACE > RAR > ZIP.
I cannot disagree more.

ACE is CRAP - utter bile that should be put out to pasture NOW.

RAR > ZIP = True
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 12:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by brc64

ACE > RAR > ZIP.
I would second that.
To put it in one sentence:
ACE supports more format's than RAR, it is faster compressing and decompressing, yet has the same compression ratio.

And @TheMonkeyBoyz you said:

Quote:
ACE is CRAP - utter bile that should be put out to pasture NOW.
Could you explain that ?
Because I would say (based on my long experience with both tools) that the differences between Ace and RAR are small (see above) ...it's more a question of what Interface Design you like more.

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Old Mar 15, 2004, 12:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iscaran
Could you explain that ?
Because I would say (based on my long experience with both tools) that the differences between Ace and RAR are small (see above) ...it's more a question of what Interface Design you like more.
One, I resent the splintering of the archive market - it really is a pain.

That resentment and hostility aside, I do not like the ACE interface, install routines,
dragging development schedule, lack of innovation - the whole deal.

RAR is a substantial program with some of the most useful types of features you
could want, and though I wish the ZIP format had evolved more and that WinZip
and/or PKWare had developed better interfaces that made the software more
accessible, the fact is that RAR did what they seemingly could not, and that counts
for something.

Compression Ratio's are not as critical as they once were, since hard drives are
getting larger and cheaper and broadband is becoming more widespread.

Much like the splintering in the DVD format wars, this extra "ACE" option is just
not needed. It is not innovative and not superior to RAR in most areas, and
frankly, I would rather it never have been created in the first place.

Yep - I'm stubborn, but I just flat-out don't like ACE.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 01:23 PM   #14
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Thumbs down

I can't STAND ACE either. WinRAR actually supports the ACE format but I never use it. And WinACE is a pile of steaming dog poo.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skynet
I can't STAND ACE either. WinRAR actually supports the ACE format but I never use it. And WinACE is a pile of steaming dog poo.
All I want WinRAR to do is decompress other formats like ACE. I don't care
if RAR creates anything other than RAR and ZIP.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 04:08 PM   #16
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Talking

I'm not a big fan of either WinACE or WinRAR, but that's just because I use WinZIP a lot more and prefer it. I don't like the ACE interface either. I DL mostly Unreal Tournament/UT2003 maps and most of those are zips. Occasionally, I'll get something in RAR format and b*tch and moan, but if I want it bad enough I'll DL it.

I will have all three installed on both my computers though.
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 06:05 PM   #17
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Well, personally I'm glad that there are alternatives on the compressing market.

The main point why I like WinAce is, I LIKE the interface it has.
AND since it has the same options (imho even more) than WinRAR, it is just a matter of personal judgement what you prefer.

So let everyone have his opinion about interface look etc.
I'm just glad that there are different interfaces available. The only point I agree with TheMonkeyBoyz is that there should be less incompatible format floating around...but this got better since the time I first used compression tools (and that's a LOOONG time). Today most files you see are either .rar, .zip, or .ace format....maybe some .tar but I personally didn't see much more showing up at the moment.

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Old Mar 15, 2004, 07:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iscaran
[BThe only point I agree with TheMonkeyBoyz is that there should be less incompatible format floating around...but this got better since the time I first used compression tools[/b]
That's all good. Most people discount my crazy rantings anyway...
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Old Mar 15, 2004, 09:20 PM   #19
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The last time I saw benchmarks on the subject, not only was WinACE faster at compressing/decompressing than WinRAR, it was slightly more efficient at it as well. The whole "splintering" thing is a moot point, since any decent compression software will be able to decompress a wide variety of compressed file types. I personally don't see much difference in the user interfaces for any of the different programs out there.

To be honest, I use ZIP more than anything, because the functionality is built right into Windows XP. The convenience outweighs the efficiency, in my opinion. But anyways, unless things have changed in recent versions, ACE compression is superior to RAR compression, which still wins over standard ZIP compression.

- Me
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 12:46 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by brc64
The last time I saw benchmarks on the subject, not only was WinACE faster at compressing/decompressing than WinRAR, it was slightly more efficient at it as well. The whole "splintering" thing is a moot point, since any decent compression software will be able to decompress a wide variety of compressed file types. I personally don't see much difference in the user interfaces for any of the different programs out there.

To be honest, I use ZIP more than anything, because the functionality is built right into Windows XP. The convenience outweighs the efficiency, in my opinion. But anyways, unless things have changed in recent versions, ACE compression is superior to RAR compression, which still wins over standard ZIP compression.

- Me
Fair enough.

I may not like ACE, but you make a good case for me not wigging out over the
fact that the thing exists.

BTW, hasn't development on ACE stopped? No activity since August 16, 2003 on it...

Thanks, and best wishes.
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 12:58 AM   #21
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Hell, I´d like to use only Winzip if I could.
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 01:47 AM   #22
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I would agree that WinACE is crap but the RAR format has picked up on the compression ratio of ACE. Anyway the best compression format right now seems to be 7zip(which btw. is OpenSource). Now we just need WinRAR to support that aswell
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 02:12 AM   #23
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i do a good amount of d/l'ing and i havent seen an ace compressed file in a long time
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 02:41 AM   #24
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I use this great file manager called PowerDesk Pro 5.0 from:

http://www.v-com.com/product/pd_ind.html

and it has built in ZIP stuff that rocks the house. Problem is,
it does not decompress newer versions of RAR and does not
handle some other formats like ACE.

So, I use WinRAR to supplement this app. I do all my file selection
and stuff inside of PowerDesk Pro 5 and then use the right-click
menu options (Context Menus) as needed to use WinRAR. I
almost never have to call up the actual WinRAR interface.

Check it:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res73act/pdesk1.png

http://mysite.verizon.net/res73act/pdesk2.png

Pretty swanky, if I do say so myself.

I wish RAR was the only other alternative to ZIP out there, really.
I also guess I wish that ZIP had all the cool stuff RAR had so that
RAR would not be necessary, but I still think it is great for the RAR
folks to pick up the slack...

Options rock the house!

BTW, you can download a free version of PowerDesk 5 that does not
have the FTP features and some other stuff, but does have the ZIP
archiving built right in.

The free version can be found here:

http://www.v-com.com/product/pd_free_trial.html

A comparison between the PRO and FREE versions is here:

http://www.v-com.com/product/pd_compare_pro.html

Highly recommended.
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 02:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lithorus
I would agree that WinACE is crap but the RAR format has picked up on the compression ratio of ACE. Anyway the best compression format right now seems to be 7zip(which btw. is OpenSource). Now we just need WinRAR to support that aswell
Open Source and Free Software = Win

Yeppers - sure does.
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 06:41 AM   #26
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@TheMonkeyBoyz:

The development of WinAce has not cancelled...the 2.5 was released on 16.12. 2003. And afaik they are currently preparing the 3.0 or at least 2.6 version.


Iscaran
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 07:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iscaran
@TheMonkeyBoyz:

The development of WinAce has not cancelled...the 2.5 was released on 16.12. 2003. And afaik they are currently preparing the 3.0 or at least 2.6 version.


Iscaran
Bummer....

Sorry man - I just can't get into WinAce. It is sad enough that ZIP was left
on the vine to rot and WinRAR had to fill in the gaps. Too many formats
just drive me whack.

I hope we can at least agree to disagree and move on to happier times...
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 11:55 AM   #28
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I didn't like (or just not used to and don't want to bother) the WinXP zip interface, so I just installed WinZip 9.0 on my new computer last night.
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Old Mar 16, 2004, 12:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkaarjMaster
I didn't like (or just not used to and don't want to bother) the WinXP zip interface, so I just installed WinZip 9.0 on my new computer last night.
I don't have Win XP installed at all.

Hey - you give a look at that PowerDesk thing? Could be swanky!
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