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Old Feb 25, 2016, 02:06 PM   #1
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Qamly
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Default AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.2 out now

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-arti...tion_16.2.aspx

AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.2 Driver Version 15.301.1901
Quote:
Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.2 Highlights

AMD has partnered with Stardock in association with Oxide to bring gamers Ashes of the Singularity – Benchmark 2.0 the first benchmark to release with DirectX® 12 benchmarking capabilities such as Asynchronous Compute, multi-GPU and multi-threaded command buffer Re-ordering. Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.2 is optimized to support this exciting new release.
The SteamVR Performance Test: we are pleased to report that our Radeon R9 390, Nano, and Fury series GPUs are all able to achieve 'VR Recommended' status, the highest achievable level of experience possible. In addition to that, our affinity multi-GPU feature is already showing significant performance uplift over a single GPU on Radeon cards in the aforementioned benchmark
Performance and quality improvements for
Rise of the Tomb Raider™
Ashes of the Singularity – Benchmark 2
Crossfire Profiles available for
The Division
XCOM 2

Resolved Issues

A black screen/TDR error may be encountered when booting a system with Intel + AMD graphics and an HDMI monitor connected
Choppy gameplay may be experienced when both AMD Freesync™ and AMD Crossfire™ are both enabled
Display corruption may be observed after keeping system idle for some time
Fallout 4 - Flickering may be experienced at various game locations with the v1.3 game update and with AMD Crossfire™ enabled
Fallout 4 - Foliage/water may ripple/stutter when game is launched in High/Ultra settings mode
Fallout 4 - Screen tearing in systems with both AMD Freesync™ and AMD Crossfire™ enabled if game is left idle for a short period of time
Fallout 4 - Thumbnails may flicker or disappear while scrolling the Perk levels page
Far Cry 4 - Stuttering may be observed when launching the game with AMD Freesync™ and AMD Crossfire™ enabled
FRTC options are displayed on some unsupported laptop configurations with Intel CPU's and AMD GPU's
Radeon Settings may sometimes fails to launch with a "Context Creation Error" message
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ - Corruption can be observed at some locations during gameplay
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ - Flickering may be experienced at various game locations when the game is left idle in AMD Crossfire™ mode under Windows 7
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ - Game may intermittently crash or hang when launched with very high settings and AA is set to SMAA at 4K resolution
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ - Lara Croft's hair may flicker in some locations if the Esc key is pressed
Rise of Tomb Raider™ - A TDR error may be observed with some AMD Radeon 300 Series products after launching the "Geothermal Valley" mission
The AMD Overdrive™ memory clock slider does not show original clock values if memory speeds are overclocked
World of Warcraft runs extremely slowly in quad crossfire at high resolutions

Known Issues

A few game titles may fail to launch or crash if the Gaming Evolved overlay is enabled. A temporary workaround is to disable the AMD Gaming Evolved "In Game Overlay"
Star Wars™: Battlefront - Corrupted ground textures may be observed in the Survival of Hoth mission
Cannot enable AMD Crossfire with some dual GPU AMD Radeon HD 59xx and HD 79xx series products
Fallout 4 - In game stutter may be experienced if the game is launched with AMD Crossfire enabled
XCOM 2 - Flickering textures may be experienced at various game locations
Rise of the Tomb Raider™ - The game may randomly crash on launch if Tessellation is enabled
Core clocks may not maintain sustained clock speeds resulting in choppy performance and or screen corruption
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 02:41 PM   #2
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No mention of vulkan, becoming disappointed with AMD on this front.
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 03:43 PM   #3
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No mention of vulkan, becoming disappointed with AMD on this front.
Live long and prosper!
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 03:51 PM   #4
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Vulkaninfo still returns complete specs with those drivers, so I guess it works.
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 04:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oap View Post
Live long and prosper!
Thanks you too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korrigan View Post
Vulkaninfo still returns complete specs with those drivers, so I guess it works.
Yes they didn't removed the Vulkan driver from this, that would be stupid if they did, is better to have a beta driver than to have no driver.
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 04:44 PM   #6
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Unless you are a developer then, right now, Vulkan doesn't matter.

Hell, unless you are a Linux user then I'd argue that Vulkan doesn't matter, what with DX12 having been out on Windows for some time already and doing pretty much the same job as Vulkan.
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 06:52 PM   #7
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Vulkan is NOT included in these drivers.

its an entirely different code branch (16.xx vs 15.xx). I assume they will merge them as some point.

If you do an upgrade, they will stay, however the drivers will continue to report 15.12 as the radeon software version.

if you do a clean install, they will get wiped and the radeon software version will report 16.2
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 07:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Unless you are a developer then, right now, Vulkan doesn't matter.

Hell, unless you are a Linux user then I'd argue that Vulkan doesn't matter, what with DX12 having been out on Windows for some time already and doing pretty much the same job as Vulkan.
Time will show who will win, but one thing is certain D3D12 is not going against "the old, bloated, hard to code, prone to bad drivers" OpenGL, now the playing field is equal and Vulkan has more advantages, Open, multi-platform (Apple seams to not wanting to support it for now) , with full support by Google (Android) and Valve, and works in more Windows then D3D12, that is locked to Windows 10.

So IMO only fanboyism or developers wanting to support, only Windows 10, would favor D3D12 above Vulkan.

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Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
Vulkan is NOT included in these drivers.

its an entirely different code branch (16.xx vs 15.xx). I assume they will merge them as some point.

If you do an upgrade, they will stay, however the drivers will continue to report 15.12 as the radeon software version.

if you do a clean install, they will get wiped and the radeon software version will report 16.2
Yes i did a upgrade and Vulkan is still there, if they removed it from the driver, then like i said above, that imo is stupid, why, because i bet a big number of AMD users installed the Beta Vulkan drivers, because of all the hype and so it has the potencial to cause confusion in the users. Oh lets me try this Vulkan demo again on this new driver, what? It doesn't work?!

And we all know who drivers get's the blame and the bad rep in the end.
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Old Feb 25, 2016, 11:16 PM   #9
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As i said, the vulkan betas are a different code branch.

they arent included in this branch.
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Old Feb 26, 2016, 02:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argoon1981 View Post
Time will show who will win, but one thing is certain D3D12 is not going against "the old, bloated, hard to code, prone to bad drivers" OpenGL, now the playing field is equal and Vulkan has more advantages, Open, multi-platform (Apple seams to not wanting to support it for now) , with full support by Google (Android) and Valve, and works in more Windows then D3D12, that is locked to Windows 10.

So IMO only fanboyism or developers wanting to support, only Windows 10, would favor D3D12 above Vulkan.
There is no 'win', so lets forget that notion.

People will use the right code for the right situation.
Vulkan's "cross platform" is limited in the same way OpenGL's was with one minor change in that mobile Vulkan and Desktop Vulkan should be the same breed (although I'm as yet to look in to the practical differences) and even then unless you are an engine writer that is a minor thing; your high end compute all over the place code still isn't going to look the same on a phone as on a desktop.

From a cross platform point of view all Vulkan potentially does is, in the future, reduce the working set of 'required APIs' by 1.
And this is fine and good - but lets not kid ourselves that Vulkan will be the API of choice for everyone everwhere because it won't.

DX12; you need it for Xbox One support - as soon as your game needs to ship on that you have to do the work. More importantly people have spent the better part of a year already working on their D3D12 implementations (since beta) and aren't about to throw them out the door for a new API.
(also, as of the last Steam hardware survey Win10 represented just over 1/3 of the market and was continuing to increase as such I'm not sure that argument is that important.)

The good news for Vulkan is because it looks the same as D3D12 from a high level the work done for D3D12 will benefit it going forward (and the PS4 work before it) so it will be easier to add the extra support IFF the extra platform support warrants it.

(For the record, I do plan on playing with Vulkan At Some Point(tm), so don't go trying to paint this off as a rabid D3D12/MS "fanboi" thing - hell, I started on OpenGL and I'm happy to go where I feel the best API is for my needs at any given time.)
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Old Feb 26, 2016, 03:49 AM   #11
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Why does Vulkan place an entry in my Apps list?

(And, yes, I did the Upgrade option as well.)
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Old Feb 26, 2016, 07:35 AM   #12
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bobvodka you are right, i also don't think dx12 will go totally away, Microsoft has the advantage off its console, but i hope you concur with me that a single API gaining more foot in the industry, is not a bad thing and to me Vulkan, like i said, gives more advantages.
I don't know if Sony will ever support Vulkan, perhaps they will, if it gets more support, is a low-overhead/low-level API so not that different from their API, in the same vein i hope Apple get their head of the sand and play along, because we don't need a zoo of graphics API's out there doing essentially the same thing.


Dyre Straits Vulkan "app" is just a cmd line tool to see if the API was well installed, show errors and stuff, show the API version, Vulkan hardware installed on your system, what extensions it supports, etc, is essentially a helping/info tool for developers, you can safely ignore it.
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Old Feb 26, 2016, 08:17 AM   #13
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bobvodka you are right, i also don't think dx12 will go totally away, Microsoft has the advantage off its console, but i hope you concur with me that a single API gaining more foot in the industry, is not a bad thing and to me Vulkan, like i said, gives more advantages.
I don't know if Sony will ever support Vulkan, perhaps they will, if it gets more support, is a low-overhead/low-level API so not that different from their API, in the same vein i hope Apple get their head of the sand and play along, because we don't need a zoo of graphics API's out there doing essentially the same thing.
Sure, options are always good - this is why I was pro-Mantle back when it came out; D3D wasn't being pushed by OpenGL so wasn't going anywhere and OpenGL was busy digging itself in to extension hell - two APIs doing the same thing will hopefully push things forward.
(For example, iirc D3D only lets you create one of each queue type, where Vulkan lets you create as many as the driver says you can - which I'm a fan of in principle )

The Sony question is an interesting one; Vulkan brings with it constraints and a slight abstraction which will compromise is vs their own more to the Metal API - but on the flip side if Vulkan gets any real traction it might help them out games wise... (but then both UE4 and Unity support the PS4 natively and other big companies would have already invested in their PS4 renderer backend for a few years, so it is debatable what they would gain...).

We already have a zoo of APIs, heck we've had one for years in general, with GL|ES and GL going in to 'legacy' mode, the situation is no worse... better in some regards because while Metal isn't 100% like D3D12 and Vulkan, it is pretty similar so it isn't as bad.
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Old Feb 26, 2016, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Vulkan's "cross platform" is limited in the same way OpenGL's was
Hum. sorry. But no.
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 07:57 AM   #15
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What it will boil down to is what it has always boiled down to... Whomever provides the best developer tools and the best access to them will carry the day...so far, certainly with OpenGL, nobody has come close to Microsoft in that department. And that's why D3d has been so successful. I would think trying to match the dev tools and services Microsoft currently offers will be very challenging...so we shall see... I think the idea of Vulkan is terrific and a much needed alternative to the Windows OpenGL API. But building the API itself is actually the "easy" part...the dev tools are where the rubber meets the road.
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 08:07 AM   #16
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http://www.legitreviews.com/xfx-rade...view_179202/11

Seems the Fury line have some challenges and hope may be corrected in some future AMD drivers:

" After using the XFX Radeon R9 Fury video card for several weeks we ran into some performance issues that were tough to look beyond. We had Rise of the Tomb Raider crashing and then when playing Star Wars Battlefront we had really bad stuttering issues at 2560×1440 and 3840×1440 screen resolutions. Both of these game titles were not available when we published our Radeon R9 Fury launch article, so the gaming experience we had not was not the same as last summer.

AMD has acknowledged both issues that we ran into today with the release of AMD Crimson 16.2 drivers. If you look at the release notes they have listed what we run into earlier this month as known issues.

Core clocks may not maintain sustained clock speeds resulting in choppy performance and or screen corruption
Rise of the Tomb Raider – The game may randomly crash on launch if Tessellation is enabled
We’ve been talking to AMD about our gaming experience for a couple of weeks now, so it looks like the solution is going to take some time to be corrected. That core clock issue is one that is hard for use to overlook on a video card that costs over $500 to buy. If we spent $529.99 on the XFX Radeon R9 Fury video card and then got choppy performance and crashes on some of the more popular game titles we’d be very upset. XFX did a great job on this card with their custom cooler, but there are issues here on the AMD hardware/software side that needs to be worked on and that is obviously beyond XFX’s control. The crashing and stuttering issues likely apply to all brands that have a Radeon R9 Fury card."
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 08:43 AM   #17
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Hum. sorry. But no.
No need to say sorry for being wrong; everyone makes mistakes.
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 12:15 PM   #18
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Hum. sorry. But no.
i wouldnt be arguing with Bob if i was you, hes an actual developer.
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 02:56 PM   #19
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i wouldnt be arguing with Bob if i was you, hes an actual developer.
So am I.
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 03:45 PM   #20
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very well, butting out.

lol
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Old Feb 27, 2016, 06:30 PM   #21
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Funny how people read into things differently.

Vulkan is a API that was long overdue, and, since it is open to all, this makes it easier to program on for a variety of open systems.

However, the way things seems to be going these days is, because most of the games are console ports, at this time, it is just easier to have code that works on the XB1 & PCs (which is DX 12).
The flip side of that is, PS4 doesn't use DX12, and, from what I have been hearing is they want Vulkan, and AMD & others are helping them achieve that goal.
This translates to, PS4 games ports will most likely use Vulkan, and XB1 game ports will most likely use DX12.

Valve is pushing people toward Vulkan as well, since, not only can it work on windows, but linux as well, and user of Windows 7 & 8 do NOT have to upgrade to windows 10 as they would for DX12.
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 08:02 AM   #22
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Funny how people read into things differently.

Vulkan is a API that was long overdue, and, since it is open to all, this makes it easier to program on for a variety of open systems.

However, the way things seems to be going these days is, because most of the games are console ports, at this time, it is just easier to have code that works on the XB1 & PCs (which is DX 12).
The flip side of that is, PS4 doesn't use DX12, and, from what I have been hearing is they want Vulkan, and AMD & others are helping them achieve that goal.
This translates to, PS4 games ports will most likely use Vulkan, and XB1 game ports will most likely use DX12.

Valve is pushing people toward Vulkan as well, since, not only can it work on windows, but linux as well, and user of Windows 7 & 8 do NOT have to upgrade to windows 10 as they would for DX12.
Just my two cents, but all that you have written remains to be seen...;) I have nothing against Vulkan, but whenever I hear someone preaching a new API as if it's going to save the world I get a bit recalcitrant...;) OpenGL is badly in need of replacement inside Windows--but let's face it--when it comes to AAA computer games that require decent horsepower to run--the Windows market is the place to be. Valve's splinter of Linux distribution is so small it is nearly non-existent--indeed, Valve would close shop quickly should it decide not to support Windows--so that is not in the cards. Windows will continue to hold the largest share of the gaming market, by far, in perpetuity--unless Microsoft decides to go out of business for some reason...;)

Nothing in the mobile markets has the horsepower, and indeed, probably never will have the horsepower when compared to state-of-the-art desktop computer-gaming tech. If VR should catch on--and I have my doubts about that--it will require horsepower that no mobile device remotely on the horizon will have the computational power to drive. It will be a boon to desktop computing hardware sales, no question about it, so that's why I support it. I could care less about the actual VR tech itself. My tastes run to large-screen, 4k+ gaming, etc.

As for the consoles...bear in mind that the one redeeming factor about both the xBone and the PS-foreskin (sorry for the pun!) is that they are both 100% x86 PCs inside. It's encouraging to me because eventually Microsoft is going to catch on that the old console paradigm of 8-10 years between hardware versions is dead as a doornail. Or it will be Sony, first. Nothing is stopping either of these companies from releasing new and improved game consoles every 2-3 years (!) that take direct advantage of the continuing improvements in x86 computer tech. All improved models would automatically be 100% backwards-compatible with the older models--because they are all x86 PCs, etc. Basically, every couple of years or so for just a few hundred bucks, console owners can double/triple their gaming hardware muscle...;) Start selling peripherals like optional keyboards, mice, hard drives, SSD's, etc.--and presto!--consoles have disappeared forever, swallowed whole by x86 computer tech! Now *everyone's* on a desktop of some kind, in reality! Bravo! So where does Vulkan come in?

This is where a developer really has to analyze the potential of cross-market code. If he's developing a high-quality game that will demand PC-level horsepower to run--he's going to be looking foremost at the Windows/d3d markets because they are by far the largest market for that kind of product--mobile tech can't run it, etc. OK, still a small slice of the pie, OS X uses decade-old OpenGL and Apple has as much interest in Mac gaming as it does in helping law enforcement protect American citizens from terrorism...;) But Macs can run Windows natively, too--thanks to Apple's Bootcamp--so that's another ding for D3d, even though it's a fairly small ding.

As I mentioned earlier, the critical balance for whether Vulkan makes it--and I hope it does--will be developer support and that is 100% dependent on the level of support the Khronos Group gives developers through its development tools. The market is not necessarily cross-platform at all, really--it's the Windows market primarily in which Vulkan will sink or swim (as Vulkan is introduced as a Windows API, specifically.)

My own opinion is that Vulkan's adoption rate is probably going to parallel Mantle's--but that's a maybe. Mantle was announced by AMD prior to Microsoft announcing anything past D3d11...people were asking if there was going to *be* a Dx12 release from Microsoft. No response immediately came from Microsoft so AMD launched Mantle as a way of lighting a fire under Microsoft's derriere--and it worked--and so now that Microsoft is back in the PC-gaming API business again, AMD no longer needs to concern itself with Mantle--and Mantle is all but gone already. Vulkan is being launched squarely against d3d12, and it will be the tools for developers primarily that will determine the ultimate success or failure of the Vulkan API.
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 03:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Mac View Post
i wouldnt be arguing with Bob if i was you, hes an actual developer.
I'm happy to debate with people, but someone rocking and saying 'no' without bothering to support it with any facts, reasoned arguments or other words just isn't worth my time
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 04:14 PM   #24
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OpenGL is badly in need of replacement inside Windows
There was an old saying about OpenGL; it was the best choice when you had no other choice :wink:

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--but let's face it--when it comes to AAA computer games that require decent horsepower to run--the Windows market is the place to be. Valve's splinter of Linux distribution is so small it is nearly non-existent--indeed
Indeed, the stats on the Steam Hardware Survey point to this; Win7 controlling just over 30% of the market and Win10 just under with total Windows dominance at 95% of the share.
(and that uptake of Win10 is why the "gamers wont have to update past Win7" argument people have made holds very little water imo).

Linux based OSes don't even make up 1% of the share.

Quote:
Nothing in the mobile markets has the horsepower, and indeed, probably never will have the horsepower when compared to state-of-the-art desktop computer-gaming tech.
While true mobile is the one area where, potentially, Vulkan will be a massive win.
OpenGL|ES had quickly become a mess, in terms of the API, driver support and indeed the overhead on the runtime - this is part of why Apple made Metal and, assuming everyone falls in to line, should be something Vulkan solves.

(I spent just over a year supporting Android at my last place; at the start I was a card carrying Android fan, now you couldn't pay me to use an Android device.. hateful hateful things...)

Quote:
As for the consoles... [...] So where does Vulkan come in?
This remains my question; I know some people have asked for Vulkan support on the PS4, I even heard potential of maybe happening, but I have to ask why?
The API layer is, without a doubt, the thinnest bit and the PS4's Gnm will look, from a high level point of view, like Vulkan - so you don't save complexity and indeed you'd still have to have extensions to allow for the hardware of the PS4 where it differs significantly from a PC. (Pretty sure some NDA stuff still exists on this, thus vagueness...)

And as I mentioned before, most places have a PS4 back-end up and running and have for some time now - over two years since console release and it was maybe 18 months before release I got to see the specs (I think, memory is a little vague..) - so the PS4 ship has largely sailed and for everyone else coming in now, well, Unity and UE4 are the solutions.

[source]
As I mentioned earlier, the critical balance for whether Vulkan makes it--and I hope it does--will be developer support and that is 100% dependent on the level of support the Khronos Group gives developers through its development tools. The market is not necessarily cross-platform at all, really--it's the Windows market primarily in which Vulkan will sink or swim (as Vulkan is introduced as a Windows API, specifically.)
[/quote]

You will have games with Vulkan support out there, UE4 has already demonstrated the API running (although there was nothing particularly magically 'Vulkan' about it) and Unity have in house work going on although I get the impression it isn't a priority and they have bigger fish to fry stability and performance wise.
(Heck, knowing what I know about the UE4 code base I'd be surprised if the performance delta was really that great as much of that code wasn't great when I last saw it...)

Quote:
My own opinion is that Vulkan's adoption rate is probably going to parallel Mantle's--but that's a maybe.
I'm not so sure.
Mantle filled a need, a cross platform need amusingly, which with the release of D3D12 largely got swallowed up on Windows - if you are a big AAA developer then I'm not sure where your motivation is for using it.
The only, only, way I can think it makes sense is if you are starting out basically now and are writing your low overhead renderer from the ground up and, importantly, weren't planning on hitting the Xbox - then it might make sense. Otherwise, I'd still say D3D12 first - hits two platforms right off the bat.

Quote:
Vulkan is being launched squarely against d3d12, and it will be the tools for developers primarily that will determine the ultimate success or failure of the Vulkan API.
The tools and plans for the tools look sane; the problem is it launched when it did; months behind Win10 and D3D12's public release.

Everything is still beta where as D3D12 has had some settling time now.

The good news for Vulkan is that D3D12 has probably found many of the underlying issues so things might go smoother.. but it was still late to the party and while not bad it hasn't brought enough with it to make everyone stop hanging around the host and hang with it instead.
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 05:33 PM   #25
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Bobvodka, what do you think about the possibility of Nintendo using Vulkan on the NX?
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 08:02 PM   #26
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Given the spec has only just been finalised it feels unlikely, at least to start with - it will likely depend on who does the hardware as much as anything.

If it is another AMD based chip then Mantle is possible, or they could continue their tradition of an API like another one, so it will be their custom API but 'Mantle like' (much like how the Wii and WiiU was 'opengl like') - which would put it in the same area as the PS4 API wise.

As it's not a console I'm in any way involved in take the above for the slight guess work that it is.
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Old Feb 28, 2016, 09:08 PM   #27
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Well if the Steambox start gaining numbers over time plus Valve Source Engine(s) uses Vulkan not only on Linux but PCs and Android etc. Others may use the Source Engine for PC, Steambox consoles and Android. There is probably plenty of room for a successful second API due to that DX12 is Windows only. Windows dominate or does it? Considering Android numbers maybe not. For higher end gaming of course Windows is king.
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Old Feb 29, 2016, 10:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
There was an old saying about OpenGL; it was the best choice when you had no other choice :wink:

....


The good news for Vulkan is that D3D12 has probably found many of the underlying issues so things might go smoother.. but it was still late to the party and while not bad it hasn't brought enough with it to make everyone stop hanging around the host and hang with it instead.
Not much I can disagree with...
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