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Old Feb 7, 2019, 11:18 AM   #31
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Phew, got in an order on amd.com, just in time I guess, now it's OOS everywhere. At least they sent the game codes right away, so I can look at RE2
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 11:24 AM   #32
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https://www.computerbase.de/2019-02/...deon-vii-test/

they did a lot of tests and especially 5K test frametimes results look very interesting.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 11:42 AM   #33
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So basically the gist is AMD had too release something, rushed it and it isn't ready for release but they did it anyways.

Power hungry and hot and sits around the level of a 2 year old product from the competition.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 12:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
So basically the gist is AMD had too release something, rushed it and it isn't ready for release but they did it anyways.

Power hungry and hot and sits around the level of a 2 year old product from the competition.
And I'm ok with all of that! I looked at a few of the early video reviews, and while all had driver complaints, all show it to be a definite upgrade over the Vega64LC at roughly the same power&noise envelope, so barring a disaster of some sort I feel comfortable with replacing one with the other and hopefully recovering some of the cost selling the old card.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 12:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rms View Post
And I'm ok with all of that! I looked at a few of the early video reviews, and while all had driver complaints, all show it to be a definite upgrade over the Vega64LC at roughly the same power&noise envelope, so barring a disaster of some sort I feel comfortable with replacing one with the other and hopefully recovering some of the cost selling the old card.
Rumor has it they only made 1,000 of them Good luck finding one in stock
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 12:39 PM   #36
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power the same as vega 64

too high for CFX

looks like a pass
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 12:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
So basically the gist is AMD had too release something, rushed it and it isn't ready for release but they did it anyways.

Power hungry and hot and sits around the level of a 2 year old product from the competition.
It runs cooler than both the Nvidia reference 2080 and 2080ti (there are 3rd party vendors that have them running cooler than reference), it does consume more power straight out of the box (see my response below about the power results) . It wins some and it loses some in comparison to the 2080, however there are some serious weird results with a couple games like Overwatch.. where it performs worse than the 1080, yet beats the 2080 in others. Sounds more like a driver issue than a hardware issue in those situations.


As for the comment about 2 year old product.. that is really just manipulation, considering that there is only 1 consumer gaming card that is faster, the 2080ti. So, it trades blows with the second fastest consumer gaming card. Just because it doesn't compete with the top dog, doesn't mean it is a bad thing, nor does it mean they are 2 years behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
power the same as vega 64

too high for CFX

looks like a pass
we might need to wait a bit on this conclusion. only a few reviews out, but 1 shows total system power only 8 watts more than the 2080 system (with double the memory to power, that is pretty much even), and 45 watts less than the vega II. Another doesn't specify if it is card only or system power, but shows it to be 20 watts more than the Vega 64 system, and 90 watts more than the 2080 system. I hope we see more reviews and a more solid results over the course of today and tomorrow. Even as I mentioned above, some of the benchmarks just don't make sense (overwatch)
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:01 PM   #38
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Rumour has it that the 16GB of HBM2 accounts for half the price of the card.

Also, you have to feed those transistors in power and cooling for nothing.

Oh well...
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
It runs cooler than both the Nvidia reference 2080 and 2080ti (there are 3rd party vendors that have them running cooler than reference), it does consume more power straight out of the box (see my response below about the power results) . It wins some and it loses some in comparison to the 2080, however there are some serious weird results with a couple games like Overwatch.. where it performs worse than the 1080, yet beats the 2080 in others. Sounds more like a driver issue than a hardware issue in those situations.


As for the comment about 2 year old product.. that is really just manipulation, considering that there is only 1 consumer gaming card that is faster, the 2080ti. So, it trades blows with the second fastest consumer gaming card. Just because it doesn't compete with the top dog, doesn't mean it is a bad thing, nor does it mean they are 2 years behind.



we might need to wait a bit on this conclusion. only a few reviews out, but 1 shows total system power only 8 watts more than the 2080 system (with double the memory to power, that is pretty much even), and 45 watts less than the vega II. Another doesn't specify if it is card only or system power, but shows it to be 20 watts more than the Vega 64 system, and 90 watts more than the 2080 system. I hope we see more reviews and a more solid results over the course of today and tomorrow. Even as I mentioned above, some of the benchmarks just don't make sense (overwatch)
4k it does not beat the 2080 or my 1080 ti Strix and sucks a lot more sucks a lot more power doing a bare match in performance so more power more heat to the room
https://legitreviews.com/wp-content/...omb-4k-vii.png

two of these in CFX would be a space heater

unless drivers get 15% to 25% more performance in 4k games I can't see replacing my 1080 ti Strix for this .

Last edited by bill dennison : Feb 7, 2019 at 01:08 PM.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:02 PM   #40
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Lol black screens and 114 C temps with Jayz. Wtf?
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
power the same as vega 64

too high for CFX

looks like a pass
According to Jayztwocents there is no CFX.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
4k it does not beat the 2080 or my 1080 ti Strix and sucks a lot more sucks a lot more power doing a bare match in performance so more power more heat to the room
https://legitreviews.com/wp-content/...omb-4k-vii.png

two of these in CFX would be a space heater

unless drivers get 15% to 25% more performance in 4k games I can't see replacing my 1080 ti Strix for this .
Id like to see auto undervolting tested.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
4k it does not beat the 2080 or my 1080 ti Strix and sucks a lot more sucks a lot more power doing a bare match in performance so more power more heat to the room
https://legitreviews.com/wp-content/...omb-4k-vii.png

two of these in CFX would be a space heater

unless drivers get 15% to 25% more performance in 4k games I can't see replacing my 1080 ti Strix for this .
We already knew it wouldn't be 15% to 25% faster than the 1080ti.. what are you smoking Bill?

As for the rest: it all depends on who is doing the review and what games (it wins some and it loses some to the 2080) and it runs cooler, just draws more power:

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,1.html
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page...review,12.html (tomb raider results - only 2 fps between the 2080 and Vega II, that is pretty much a tie)
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,7.html (tempurature)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
power the same as vega 64
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,6.html (power draw - you stated nothing about 1080ti/2080)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
According to Jayztwocents there is no CFX.
They didn't have CFX for Vega 64 till 3 months after launch either. So it's hard to say right now.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
It all depends on who is doing the review and what games (it wins some and it loses some to the 2080) and it runs cooler, just draws more power:

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,1.html


https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,9.html

run the fans higher of course it runs cooler and is 11 db noisier than a piss poor FE card or 18 db higher than my 2080 ti strix

but still puts out more heat to the room

Vega 2 fail strike 2

2080 ti strix 275 watts
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page...preview,7.html

vega 2 299 watts or more in most reviews

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,6.html

power to performance still sucks

on to waiting for navi

Last edited by bill dennison : Feb 7, 2019 at 01:46 PM.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:53 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pax View Post
Id like to see auto undervolting tested.
might help

but as it stands it can't beet a 2 year old 1080 ti FE in most games at 4k and uses more power and makes more noise
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:54 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post


https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,9.html

run the fans higher of course it runs cooler and is 11 db noisier than a piss poor FE card or 18 db higher than my 2080 ti strix

but still puts out more heat to the room

Vega 2 fail strike 2

on to waiting for navi
Actually, I have never had any 3 fan combination be the cause of the noise due to fans speed or the fans themselves.. all of them where caused by the shroud and heat sink turbulence (I have 4 different models/brands sitting in my closet as we speak) .. so without actualy seeing the rpm's of the fans, we have no idea how fast they are going, or if the noise is caused by the fan speed. That is pure assumption on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
2080 ti strix 275 watts
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page...preview,7.html
vega 2 299 watts or more in most reviews

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page..._review,6.html

power to performance still sucks
This was not your original argument, This was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
power the same as vega 64
There was no mention of the 1080ti, or 2080 in your original argument, nor did I ever state it was less.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 01:58 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
Actually, I have never had any 3 fan combination be the cause of the noise due to fans speed or the fans themselves.. all of them where caused by the shroud and heat sink turbulence (I have 4 different models/brands sitting in my closet as we speak) .. so without actualy seeing the rpm's of the fans, we have no idea how fast they are going, or if the noise is caused by the fan speed. That is pure assumption on your part.


This was not your original argument, This was:
well you buy one

I won't be .
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 02:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
well you buy one

I won't be .
Why the need to air your purchase decisions to everyone Bill? What's the point? I never even once disclosed my thoughts about purchasing one or not. I have no reason to do so, as it has nothing to do with the discussion/debate.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 02:19 PM   #49
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Well NWR I actually bought a Vega VII. I thought WTF I can afford it and you can’t take it with you. Went online and the stock literally listed as I was looking so I snagged a Sapphire card for £658 inc next day delivery. I thought with that 3 fan cooler it must be quieter than my Vega 64. Then I started reading the reviews and the one that really surprised me was Techreport who are usually very good and fair reviews. They couldn’t recommend it as it was too hot and noisy and its 99th percentile performance was pants with visible stuttering. They did say this could be improved by better drivers down the line but in its current state the card was poor value.

I then looked at other reviews and everyone of them mentioned the noise levels being worse than Vega 64 and it was even noisy in games menus which is unacceptable TBH. So I rang the e-tailer and cancelled my order and the money will be back in my account tomorrow. Obviously it’s my own fault as I bought the card before the reviews came out and obviously I wouldn’t have bought it if I had read them.

TBH I can live with the heat and power draw but what i find an absolute no no is the noise. Once again AMD have thrown everything at making the card perform against one of its rivals cards and have totally ignored the power, thermals and noise that is generated to get it there. AMD need to realise that these things do matter to consumers as well as performance and until they can get those metrics right they are going to struggle.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 02:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Well NWR I actually bought a Vega VII. I thought WTF I can afford it and you can’t take it with you. Went online and the stock literally listed as I was looking so I snagged a Sapphire card for £658 inc next day delivery. I thought with that 3 fan cooler it must be quieter than my Vega 64. Then I started reading the reviews and the one that really surprised me was Techreport who are usually very good and fair reviews. They couldn’t recommend it as it was too hot and noisy and its 99th percentile performance was pants with visible stuttering. They did say this could be improved by better drivers down the line but in its current state the card was poor value.

I then looked at other reviews and everyone of them mentioned the noise levels being worse than Vega 64 and it was even noisy in games menus which is unacceptable TBH. So I rang the e-tailer and cancelled my order and the money will be back in my account tomorrow. Obviously it’s my own fault as I bought the card before the reviews came out and obviously I wouldn’t have bought it if I had read them.

TBH I can live with the heat and power draw but what i find an absolute no no is the noise. Once again AMD have thrown everything at making the card perform against one of its rivals cards and have totally ignored the power, thermals and noise that is generated to get it there. AMD need to realise that these things do matter to consumers as well as performance and until they can get those metrics right they are going to struggle.
Just look for a used 1080Ti, Nvidia supports Freesync on your monitor now, you can save some money and you still win.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 02:31 PM   #51
LordHawkwind
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
Just look for a used 1080Ti, Nvidia supports Freesync on your monitor now, you can save some money and you still win.
Because I bought the card when I cancelled my order I saw a very nice Palit OC 2080 for £659 on a rival site and I was very tempted. As you say it would support my freesync monitor and with being Turing it is more up to date than Pascal and throw in ray tracing and DLSS and it makes the deal look a bit sweeter. I know both of them are not mainstream yet but at least they work whereas many of my features in Vega 64 still don’t. I’ll let the dust settle for a while and then make a decision.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 03:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Well NWR I actually bought a Vega VII. I thought WTF I can afford it and you can’t take it with you. Went online and the stock literally listed as I was looking so I snagged a Sapphire card for £658 inc next day delivery. I thought with that 3 fan cooler it must be quieter than my Vega 64. Then I started reading the reviews and the one that really surprised me was Techreport who are usually very good and fair reviews. They couldn’t recommend it as it was too hot and noisy and its 99th percentile performance was pants with visible stuttering. They did say this could be improved by better drivers down the line but in its current state the card was poor value.

I then looked at other reviews and everyone of them mentioned the noise levels being worse than Vega 64 and it was even noisy in games menus which is unacceptable TBH. So I rang the e-tailer and cancelled my order and the money will be back in my account tomorrow. Obviously it’s my own fault as I bought the card before the reviews came out and obviously I wouldn’t have bought it if I had read them.

Also, the latest driver released on the 4th, 19.2.1 are trash. They cause my Vega 64 to stutter like a bitch in 7 days to die and I would have frame rate plunge for a few seconds down into the teen constanlty. The game runs smooth as butter with the 19.1.2 drivers, with some areas dropping at most down to the high 50's and low 60's due to the lack of optimization. If they are testing with those drivers, then I suspect it is the drivers.

TBH I can live with the heat and power draw but what i find an absolute no no is the noise. Once again AMD have thrown everything at making the card perform against one of its rivals cards and have totally ignored the power, thermals and noise that is generated to get it there. AMD need to realise that these things do matter to consumers as well as performance and until they can get those metrics right they are going to struggle.
What are you responding to me? Has nothing to do with me, nor the points I made. All reviews I see, show it running cooler than the reference 2080/2080ti, and cooler than the vega 64. I never said it wasn't loud. I just stated we can't necessarily say it is because the fans are spinning faster as bill implied. I will say that being loud in game menus can be caused by the game, as some of them for some stupid reason have the card under full load even in the menus, so in this case, of course it will be loud, specially if it is noted being loud during gaming. I have a few games that do this.

I do owe you an apology: It appears you where correct all along about short supply, now that we actually have evidence of it rather than she said, he said crap. Even Amazon doesn't have it listed anywhere yet, which is a huge bad sign. Newegg shows all of them out of stock. Not Good.

On another note, wtf is going on with the forums. I have typed out responses, or went back and edited/added to them, words as well as complete sentences disappear that I never touched, edited, or removed. This has been going on for a few weeks, just on this forum only. I have no issues on other forums.. For example, the sentence above about the supply shortage, disappeared when I added to my comment above it and posted it, even though I never went near that part of the response. I had to edit it again and put it back in. At first I thought i was only when I was responding using using my phone, but it is also now happening on the PC as well. Very ODD!
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 03:47 PM   #53
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Seeing as the card only runs as "cool" as the hottest part of the card sensor readings, these definitely aren't running cooler than nvidia. Unless they update something, the fans are required to run at crazy max speeds to even retain core speeds....

How anyone can seriously say they run cooler is beyond me, the cards have three leaf blowers on them....
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 03:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mickey Padge View Post
Seeing as the card only runs as "cool" as the hottest part of the card sensor readings, these definitely aren't running cooler than nvidia. Unless they update something, the fans are required to run at crazy max speeds to even retain core speeds....

How anyone can seriously say they run cooler is beyond me, the cards have three leaf blowers on them....
I don't understand your logic here, how else do you get heat sensor readings? Or are you trying to imply that AMD doesn't report the highest temperature? Not sure where you are coming up with that. If you are referring to the Hot spot reading that AMD has, that is a temperature reading sensor that is still debated where it is getting the readings from (some think VRM, but it is still not clear what part of the card that reading is coming from) , and there is not equivalent that I am aware of on the Nvidia card, as Nvidia's temperatures are the Die temperatures only, which is the same temperatures AMD reports as well.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 04:06 PM   #55
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Functional drivers might fix some things but so far this pretty much confirms my impression of Vega: hot trash for games but pretty decent for compute. I’m not sure why I expected anything different even with a die shrink. Radeon VII just seems like it was totally rushed out the door and I’m really struggling to understand why. Was another month or 2 too long to wait? If this really is just a way to avoid scrapping GPUs and volumes will be very low maybe it’s not worth AMD’s time to really fix the drivers for Radeon VII?
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 04:08 PM   #56
Hapatingjaky
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I don't understand your logic here. How does Nvidia get their card temperatures if it isn't from a sensor? If the Vega II's sensor is like the Vega 64, the sensor is built into the core/chip. Don't think you can get much more accurate than that.
The Vega II Sensor doesn't give you the actual core temp, that's why Jay and Steve saw upwards of 114c. Its gives Edge Temp which is the furthest edge from the Core. Steve explains it in the video.

The card does indeed run a lot hotter then the Vega64 and anything from Nvidia. That's why alot see this as a weird release, watch Linus' explanation in the LinusTechTips video.

Pretty much, AMD pushed the card as far as they could with the cooling available. If they were to throw a closed loop addition in you'd be looking at another $100 - $150 on top of the 699.99 price. That's the theory why Overclocking is gimped on the cards right now.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 04:13 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
The Vega II Sensor doesn't give you the actual core temp, that's why Jay and Steve saw upwards of 114c. Its gives Edge Temp which is the furthest edge from the Core. Steve explains it in the video.

The card does indeed run a lot hotter then the Vega64 and anything from Nvidia. That's why alot see this as a weird release, watch Linus' explanation in the LinusTechTips video.

Pretty much, AMD pushed the card as far as they could with the cooling available. If they were to throw a closed loop addition in you'd be looking at another $100 - $150 on top of the 699.99 price. That's the theory why Overclocking is gimped on the cards right now.
What video.. Guess it would help if the video was referenced.

edit: I found Jays video, will watch it in a bit, I did fast forward thru it real fast (don't have much time right now) and did see the temperature problem however, he went on to talk about the problems, black screen etc.. those are ALL driver related with the 19.2.1 drivers.. same issues on my Vega 64, in fact, it would black screen during install until turned off and on my monitor. So all those issues could be driver related and not the card. I will try and find steve's video later.. when I have time to properly watch it.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 04:30 PM   #58
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it does rival a nvidia card ………


………. the FX 5800



the Radeon 7 Turboprop

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Old Feb 7, 2019, 04:44 PM   #59
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OMG, I was half expecting his test bed rig to lift off!

Hot garbage, never has a saying been more accurate

These chips must have been a weak batch of some professional card in the pipeline, with investment at a point where they just cut thir losses and released some bastardised gaming card instead.
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Old Feb 7, 2019, 05:02 PM   #60
LordHawkwind
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
What are you responding to me? Has nothing to do with me, nor the points I made. All reviews I see, show it running cooler than the reference 2080/2080ti, and cooler than the vega 64. I never said it wasn't loud. I just stated we can't necessarily say it is because the fans are spinning faster as bill implied. I will say that being loud in game menus can be caused by the game, as some of them for some stupid reason have the card under full load even in the menus, so in this case, of course it will be loud, specially if it is noted being loud during gaming. I have a few games that do this.

I do owe you an apology: It appears you where correct all along about short supply, now that we actually have evidence of it rather than she said, he said crap. Even Amazon doesn't have it listed anywhere yet, which is a huge bad sign. Newegg shows all of them out of stock. Not Good.

On another note, wtf is going on with the forums. I have typed out responses, or went back and edited/added to them, words as well as complete sentences disappear that I never touched, edited, or removed. This has been going on for a few weeks, just on this forum only. I have no issues on other forums.. For example, the sentence above about the supply shortage, disappeared when I added to my comment above it and posted it, even though I never went near that part of the response. I had to edit it again and put it back in. At first I thought i was only when I was responding using using my phone, but it is also now happening on the PC as well. Very ODD!
I'm responding to you because I was very negative about this card and you called me out for having a 3 month AMD rant. I thought I'd give AMD another chance to earn my money and decided on impulse to buy the card. Simples.

With regards to shortages OCUK are saying it's due to Chinese new year and they have been in touch with AMD and they are expecting 200-300 cards by end of February and up to 1,000/2000 in March and they have agreed to sell the Sapphire reference version for MSRP of £649. So looks like availability will improve. You do know that all the stories you now accept about availability that are all over the web stemmed from my source that you trashed? Well never mind that's life I guess.

I'm disappointed because I wanted to play with my new card this weekend but unfortunately after reading the reviews I wasn't prepared to pay £650 for Vega VII in it's current state. TBH I have no issues with my Vega 64 (apart from drivers!) so I didn't really need this card but I was willing to give AMD a chance. Unfortunately they blew it big time I'm afraid but if they can sort out the issues and the card is available in a few months I may reconsider unless I decide to buy a 2080 in the meantime
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