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Old Jun 13, 2009, 05:26 AM   #1
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genci88
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Default Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe without Internet Explorer

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...t-explorer.ars

Microsoft has announced that it will ship a special version of Vista's successor in Europe, titled Windows 7 E, without Internet Explorer 8. The browser-less version, a reaction to an antitrust investigation by the EU into whether Microsoft is abusing its dominant position with Windows and Internet Explorer, will be distributed in all member nations of the European Economic Area as well as Croatia and Switzerland.

Windows 7 E is reminiscent of media-player-free Windows XP N and Windows Vista N, which Microsoft offered in Europe also in response to an EU antitrust investigation. Unlike the N versions, which proved to be very unsuccessful—as Europeans simply purchased the full retail versions and OEMs refused to include them on their systems—Microsoft is not planning to offer a version of Windows 7 in Europe that includes IE8. This means that none of the versions of Windows 7 sold in Europe will include a Microsoft's browser.


Man, it's gonna be hard for mom & pop to find a browser without a browser.
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 07:36 AM   #2
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lol yeah, how would anyone be able to download IE8 or Firefox or whatever.
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 08:00 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
lol yeah, how would anyone be able to download IE8 or Firefox or whatever.
According to that article, MS is going to offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail. In my opinion, they could even throw the CDs right into the Windows 7 E boxes. Another thing they might do is offer IE8 as part of the Windows Live Essentials.

As for other browsers, Mozilla already sells Firefox CDs, and one can always download their browser to an external storage device before formatting.

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Old Jun 13, 2009, 09:10 AM   #4
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I understand why MS is doing this and I think the whole of the EU should just be banned from Windows period. This is nuts, EVERY other OS ships with a browser but MS is anticompetitive if it does?

Poltitians deciding software design, you thought Windows was broke before wait until the politians are done with it!
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 11:02 AM   #5
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lol yeah I'm sure Microsoft will wanna' ban 400 million people from using their os.

It does seem like a ridiculous measure to prevent windows from shipping with IE8....not using it is very easy !
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 11:06 AM   #6
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That's quite the predicament there. "Where's the Internet gone?"
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Crisler View Post
I understand why MS is doing this and I think the whole of the EU should just be banned from Windows period. This is nuts, EVERY other OS ships with a browser but MS is anticompetitive if it does?

Poltitians deciding software design, you thought Windows was broke before wait until the politians are done with it!

Enjoy living in your little world.
Also, greetings from EU.
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:44 PM   #8
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Internet explorer is like one the most used things in all of windows XD
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 01:22 PM   #9
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Old Jun 13, 2009, 02:37 PM   #10
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I can't believe that the removal of IE from Windows 7 is "not enough" for the EU.

When will they go after Apple, I wonder?

If Microsoft somehow prevented installation of other browsers into Windows, I'd see a problem (even then a questionable one). This way - their OS, their rules.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 07:25 AM   #11
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Congratulations on not reading the article.

Here's the summary for the Internet "Duh" generation:
- EU did not ask Microsoft to remove IE.
- Microsoft removed IE on their own.

Now let's recap:
- EU did not ask Microsoft to remove IE.
- Microsoft removed IE on their own.

Are we clear on that? If not, return and read the above lines until you understand it.

EU wanted to give alternatives, in this case they wanted to add a welcome screen (possibly the first time you start IE) where there would have been an informal screen stating there are alternatives to IE - would you like to visit the pages of these products?

As for Apple and Safari, they'll go after Apple if they get to the same dominant market share as what Microsoft has today. When you have 90% of the market, the rules change.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 08:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Congratulations on not reading the article.

Here's the summary for the Internet "Duh" generation:
- EU did not ask Microsoft to remove IE.
- Microsoft removed IE on their own.

Now let's recap:
- EU did not ask Microsoft to remove IE.
- Microsoft removed IE on their own.

Are we clear on that? If not, return and read the above lines until you understand it.
Lose the attitude.

Quote:
EU wanted to give alternatives, in this case they wanted to add a welcome screen (possibly the first time you start IE) where there would have been an informal screen stating there are alternatives to IE - would you like to visit the pages of these products?

As for Apple and Safari, they'll go after Apple if they get to the same dominant market share as what Microsoft has today. When you have 90% of the market, the rules change.
And why would Microsoft have to do that? Why would anyone have to put adverts to competition's products in their own product?

And why stop there? "You're installing Windows? There's also Linux and MacOS, you know!". "Buying a Ford? Why not visit BMW's site before you make a decision?"

And finally, when will we, then, see a Firefox startup screen saying "Check out IE, too. It's awesome!"?

Alternatives are there, and if the users want them, they'll get them. Microsoft has every right to do with Windows as it sees fit.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 08:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Android1 View Post
According to that article, MS is going to offer IE8 via CD, FTP, and retail. In my opinion, they could even throw the CDs right into the Windows 7 E boxes. Another thing they might do is offer IE8 as part of the Windows Live Essentials.

As for other browsers, Mozilla already sells Firefox CDs, and one can always download their browser to an external storage device before formatting.
So there's a 1-800 number that people will have to use and then WAIT after they purchased their computer to actually start browsing the internet? Sounds like some brilliant EU mentality.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 08:55 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Zoolok View Post
Alternatives are there, and if the users want them, they'll get them. Microsoft has every right to do with Windows as it sees fit.
And European Union has the right to do what they want with Microsoft as long as they're selling their products within the Union.

He who owns the sandbox makes the rules - if you don't like them, get out.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 09:11 AM   #15
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Sure, but the EU is very hypocritical when it comes to this.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 10:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
As for Apple and Safari, they'll go after Apple if they get to the same dominant market share as what Microsoft has today. When you have 90% of the market, the rules change.
Actually since IE does not own 90% of the market in Europe whats the point. In fact it seems I read not that long agao IE was down to about 65% in Europe which means it falls well outside the idea that there is no way to go against IE.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 10:58 AM   #17
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Actually since IE does not own 90% of the market in Europe whats the point. In fact it seems I read not that long agao IE was down to about 65% in Europe which means it falls well outside the idea that there is no way to go against IE.
Nevertheless Microsoft still has 90% OS share and as such every single Windows machine out there has Internet Explorer by default (and more often than not it likes to set itself back as the default browser, for example after certain security updates).

Remember that the original suit was filed several years ago (2007) - back then IE had much higher percentages globally.

Also Opera didn't ask to remove or cripple IE - they only wanted a reminder that other browsers exist.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 10:58 AM   #18
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And because they are "removing" IE8, does this mean that Windows Explorer can't browse and display web pages? I don't see them completely rewriting the code for that.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 11:00 AM   #19
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And because they are "removing" IE8, does this mean that Windows Explorer can't browse and display web pages?
The renderer is still there.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 11:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Also Opera didn't ask to remove or cripple IE - they only wanted a reminder that other browsers exist.
Hey, I love Opera, it's my default browser, but if they can't beat the competition on their own, tough luck. I see nothing wrong with IE coming with Windows and being the default browser. Also nothing wrong with Microsoft not advertising other companies' products.

Again, if Microsoft somehow prevented the users from using other browser, that would be another issue (even then, not a very serious one). But the way it is, Microsoft is doing nothing wrong.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 12:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Zoolok View Post
Hey, I love Opera, it's my default browser, but if they can't beat the competition on their own, tough luck. I see nothing wrong with IE coming with Windows and being the default browser. Also nothing wrong with Microsoft not advertising other companies' products.

Again, if Microsoft somehow prevented the users from using other browser, that would be another issue (even then, not a very serious one). But the way it is, Microsoft is doing nothing wrong.
I have to concur completely. MS isn't actively keeping other browsers from competing at all, in any way. The presence of their own browser shipping with the OS allows me to download the browser I want. If I lived in Europe, I'd be screwed by this. Screw you, EU commissioners. Your screwing your own people and don't even realize it. This isn't Intel keeping other companies out of the market. This is MS simply selling what they made as a complete package, no strings attached. Fracking communist bunch of sellouts, that's what the EU commissions are.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 12:35 PM   #22
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Fracking communist bunch of sellouts, that's what the EU commissions are.
Trying to foster competition between the products is communism?

Interesting point of view.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 12:49 PM   #23
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Trying to foster competition between the products is communism?
Trying to foster it in this way is. Basically, this is all about getting money from Microsoft.

I also think that it has to do a little bit with the EU vs USA, as well.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 12:54 PM   #24
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Trying to foster it in this way is. Basically, this is all about getting money from Microsoft.
Well then, I'm open to suggestions as to how Opera could've improved their browser in a way that it would've been able to dethrone a product that was shipped with every version of the OS as default and around which almost every site was built because it was so incredibly broken?

Seeing as IE, Firefox and Safari more or less copy pasted every single improvement Opera made to their browser and then claimed it as their amazing innovation.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:00 PM   #25
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Microsoft is the devil, any punishment from the EU is a good punishment. As long as they don't think they can go after my man god Jobs, all is fine... *huggles his Mac*
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Comon Dappeh, everyone knows you hate MS and have a raging hardon for anything Apple. Your bias makes your opinion on this rather unimportant.

I post this with Opera from Vista x64, doing everything OSX can do and more...
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:04 PM   #26
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Also Opera didn't ask to remove or cripple IE - they only wanted a reminder that other browsers exist.
What Opera is asking for is for MS to pay for the packaging and shipping of their product for them. Lets get real are the people of Europe so stupid they need a multiple choice question in front of them to make a choice? The numbers say IE is actually sliding and now we must take that slide and get more becuase they own the OS market. Sheesh this is the dumbest arguement I ever heard.

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Well then, I'm open to suggestions as to how Opera could've ......
Hmm call be silly but how about a better marketting campaign!? If a product is failing it is not always becuase another company ahs beat it down sometimes it is because their product sucks or no one knows they are there because they dont tell anyone.

Dont blame MS for Opera having idiots running their PR department. Personally after this mess I will be giving Opera a lot of publicity as I call for a boycott.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:06 PM   #27
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I post this with Opera from Vista x64, doing everything OSX can do and more...
Who cares, MS is getting raped in EU and I'm having a good time.
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:15 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Who cares, MS is getting raped in EU and I'm having a good time.
Hehehe, I'm in the same boat as you for once, but not on the same subject. I'm not beating you up over MS versus Apple and enjoying watching everybody else do it for me
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Crisler View Post
Hmm call be silly but how about a better marketting campaign!?
Let's see: I have my program shipped by default with every Windows installation.

Now my product is slightly worse than the competing one but that one requires downloading from a website also as my product is considered something is always there on majority of the computers in the world, everyone designs their software/addons/modifications to suit my product - not the competing one.

Naturally, I will implement technologies in my product that cannot be provided by the competing one and once again, people will use these features as "they are always present."

Now, consider yourself introducing your own software that tries to offer the same functionality as mine but without the exact compatibility or the ability to use my plug-ins, as you've decided to stick to specifications that I didn't a rats arse during my software development, knowing very well that everyone had to create hacks around the problems.

Also you only have a few dozen workers, limited budget and I'm wielding 20 billion on my bank account.

Now tell me, what chances do you have to dethrone my product?
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Old Jun 14, 2009, 01:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daPhoenix View Post
Let's see: I have my program shipped by default with every Windows installation.

Now my product is slightly worse than the competing one but that one requires downloading from a website also as my product is considered something is always there on majority of the computers in the world, everyone designs their software/addons/modifications to suit my product - not the competing one.

Naturally, I will implement technologies in my product that cannot be provided by the competing one and once again, people will use these features as "they are always present."

Now, consider yourself introducing your own software that tries to offer the same functionality as mine but without the exact compatibility or the ability to use my plug-ins, as you've decided to stick to specifications that I didn't a rats arse during my software development, knowing very well that everyone had to create hacks around the problems.

Also you only have a few dozen workers, limited budget and I'm wielding 20 billion on my bank account.

Now tell me, what chances do you have to dethrone my product?
By that point, Apple sells Mac OSX with Safari pre-installed. Your excuse for that? Apple owns the Mac market and sues anybody out of it they don't want in it. Apple hardware (firmware locked), Apple approved applications, and Apple pre-installed suites of functionality. Hmmmmmm, seems like the Mac faithful should stay out of this debate or face looking hypocritical.

Apple is 100 times more restrictive and anti-competitive then MS, anyday.
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