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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:22 PM   #1
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The PyroPath
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Default Lots-o-people fell for the GF3->GF3Ti "new" feauture trick

I'm having a discussion with some people that if nVidia only upgrades the GPU after 6 months, and that that only is a upgrade in clockspeed no more, no less. But then they say, hey nooooooooooo the GF3 Ti has extra features. They just won't believe it's a plain old GF3 running at higher clockrate, But that broken GF3 features in the drivers now work, and that they also work on the gf3 after the new drivers...
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:31 PM   #2
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Out of curiosity, what would those formerly broken features be?
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:36 PM   #3
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Then your friends are idiots.

TNT is launched. It doesn't do as well as nVidia would like because it has a lower clock than they anticipated. So six months later, they upgrade it to a higher clock for core and memory to make the TNT2! There is two versions; one for mainstream at around 120-150 dollars and a ultra version for high end gaming, at around 200 bucks. So there is an original and then a mainstream and high end refresh.

Geforce is launched. Its new, its got new features. Then they do a "minor" memory upgrade from SDRAM to DDRAM within a few months. There is a shortage of GF DDR and the GF2 launches. Its everywhere and the shortage is because of the manufacturing of these cards. About six months later, they launch the MX line, boasting the performance of the SDRAM GF or better. They launch the GF2 Ultra for the high end to put down any hope that ATI had of being anywhere near the performance crown. The featureset of the GF line takes supremecy and the added features of the original Radeon go unused for the most part (excluding Serious Sam much later and 3dmark).

The GF3 is launched. Six months later there is a refresh. Big surprise! Wow. Who would have thunk it except anyone who follows the video card market for the last few years, eh? Refresh means faster clock, better memory, new drivers, and new something in drivers. Now six months later, we got what is thought by some to be a GF3 Ultra. I would contend that there are enough new features to at least call it a GF3.5, but hey. I don't care. The point is that now nVidia has done with the GF4 what they did so long ago with the GF2. They have provided an MX, an Ultra, and a Pro. To match the ATI R8500 LE, they have the 4200 on the horizon.

So tell your friends that this is a marketing strategy by nVidia. They launch a new product. Six months later, they launch a refresh and try to offer a mainstream card along with a high performance part. This time, ATI got close and did beat them in one key element: 3dmark 2001. So nVidia goes back to the drawing board and creates a monster of a card. So like the GF2 line, they had a Geforce, then a GF2, and then another refresh to make the GF2Ultra. The Ultra or the GF4 4600 in this case is a direct response to ATI's attempts to outclass them in benchmarks. Its expensive. Yada yada.

Its also a trend. YAY! Now you can go be informed to your friends.

Note: I don't begrudge nVidia this tactic, because it enables them to give the customer every six months the option of having more for their money than the people who spent their money in the last six months. This is preferable to... say the Sound card market where innovation happens about every three years.
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:37 PM   #4
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hes refering to 3d textures i think
but who cares if they work or not? noone uses them
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:41 PM   #5
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I thought the broken features he meant for the GF3 line were 1) shadow buffers and 2) 3d textures, but I may be mistaken. As I recall, it was these features that did not work in the GF3 originally, but were included in the specs for the cards when the very first reviews and previews were talked about.

It was also a feature of the Radeon series and that's why it's remembered. ATI fanatics liked to harp EITHER about how nVidia broke the features on purpose to add them in later and call them new features OR they would argue that even nVidia has driver problems. This flipflopping between whether nV chose or was forced to disable these features for the time they were disabled would change depending on which argument was being made at the time. For some ATI fanatics live to either argue that nVidia lies all the time (ignoring ATI's bold steps in this direction in recent memory) OR that nVidia's driver team is as incompetent as ATI's (which ignores comment perception by reviewers, most *other* message boards than Rage3d, and the masses).
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:47 PM   #6
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I believe the worked for the card initially but were disabled (along with HOS) in order to streamline the drivers and fix "errata" until support actually picked up for them. Which I think is actually a good idea. Why waste resources and headaches on features noone will use? nVidia put them there in the first place to ensure support for them incase developers should ever decide to use those features. If nVidia hadnt been pushing the market like it has for the past 3 years, game developers would still be stuck in the stone ages and 3dfx would just now be brining us the voodoo with 32-bit color
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[13:45:19] <Mulciber> PEACE TO ALAH! *explodes in crowd of children*
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 02:47 PM   #7
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grrr, somethins wrong with the forum

blech, double post
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[13:45:19] <Mulciber> PEACE TO ALAH! *explodes in crowd of children*
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[13:45:52] <Robotzombie> clockwork knows all about exploding onto a crowd of children

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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:06 PM   #8
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There was a third feature as well that was enabled in the DetXPs. Can't remeber what it is though.

On the point of nvidias drivers, I don't think they are as amazing as most would say and this is from personal experience. They are better than atis but not by much and they're certainly far from perfect.
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bambers
There was a third feature as well that was enabled in the DetXPs. Can't remeber what it is though.

On the point of nvidias drivers, I don't think they are as amazing as most would say and this is from personal experience. They are better than atis but not by much and they're certainly far from perfect.
yes, we already named them
they were Shadow Buffers, HOS, and Volumetric textures

IIRC
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[13:45:19] <Mulciber> PEACE TO ALAH! *explodes in crowd of children*
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:20 PM   #10
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hmm your 2 posts werent there when I wrote that and it keeps saying its going to send an email to tech support whenever i post anything. Somethings wrong with these forums
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:27 PM   #11
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yeah, tell your friends that the original gf3 clocked at 240/500 is exactly the same as a gf3ti500.the only new features were enabled in drivers, not hardware.
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by mulciber
I believe the worked for the card initially but were disabled (along with HOS) in order to streamline the drivers and fix "errata" until support actually picked up for them. Which I think is actually a good idea. Why waste resources and headaches on features noone will use?
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the slew of games that came out in the last 6 months with support for 3D textures




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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bambers
Somethings wrong with these forums
Yup. The ATI driver team are doing "work-experience" at Rage3D for awhile
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 03:33 PM   #14
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I planned to buy an TNT when nVidia first presented the specs of the card. The product that was availble on the market wasn´t close to that. Then the TNT2 came and now IT had the specs that the TNT was supposed to have! Thats why I never bought any TNT cards. I also had a Hercules PCI with a nVidia Riva 128 chip on it. This was the worst crap I have ever come in contact with, (well, the Rage Fury MAXX was as bad as the Hercules) and I have tested a couple of hundred computers since I buy computers for the company I work at.
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Old Feb 7, 2002, 04:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nazgul


I'm sorry, I guess I missed the slew of games that came out in the last 6 months with support for 3D textures




Nazgul
i said to fix errata
it is now fixed, thus no longer a reason to leave it out of the drivers. regardless of developer support

reading posts usually helps before replying to them
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[13:45:19] <Mulciber> PEACE TO ALAH! *explodes in crowd of children*
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[13:45:52] <Robotzombie> clockwork knows all about exploding onto a crowd of children

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