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View Poll Results: How should this scenario be handled?
Premeditated first degree murder 10 55.56%
Attempted first degree murder 0 0%
Successfully commiting suicide 2 11.11%
A failed suicide attempt 0 0%
Other (please explain) 6 33.33%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Aug 15, 2020, 09:10 AM   #1
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cbsboyer
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Default Consequences of time travel

Assuming the branching parallel universes scenario of MCU time travel...

Imagine a scenario where you hop into your shiny new time machine, go back in time, and proceed to kill your past self in broad daylight, in public, and in front of security cameras and police officers. How should it be considered and dealt with by the courts?

Also, are you now, on average, a zombie and neither living nor dead?
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 09:19 AM   #2
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A sweet contribution to life.
Donut holes for the living.
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 10:29 AM   #3
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Murder in the first imo. I'm not even remotely the same person I was then.
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 11:03 AM   #4
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if you kill yourself then it's possible your parents will never kiss at the enchantment under the sea dance and then you're history.

also

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Old Aug 15, 2020, 11:49 AM   #5
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murder, your death isn't just about you, what about Kids, wife , friends ...etc? they would feel your loss...

not sure what you mean by your last sentence, you'd be you...

I'd imagine time travel would work like they explained in Endgame, going back in the past does not change the future, it creates a new independent time line...
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 12:19 PM   #6
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Divide by zero
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 04:06 PM   #7
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Divide by zero + 1
fixed
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 05:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lazy8s View Post
Murder in the first imo. I'm not even remotely the same person I was then.
This is a good answer. I will copy it.
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 05:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lazy8s View Post
Murder in the first imo. I'm not even remotely the same person I was then.
Knowing me there’d be two dead bodies. If I were ever on the verge of being killed I’d make sure to take the other person with me if possible

Would be an interesting fight though. I was definitely faster and had more endurance back then but I’m surprising stronger and a lot smarter these days. Would speed and stamina beat strength and intelligence? Hmmm
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 06:12 PM   #10
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other. wouldn't work. go back in time there' d be no you to go back in time to kill. you would no longer exist
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 08:28 PM   #11
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Congratulations you have now stuck the entire Universe in a Temporal Causality Loop. Doomed to repeat the same thing forever.
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 08:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kytprice View Post
Congratulations you have now stuck the entire Universe in a Temporal Causality Loop. Doomed to repeat the same thing forever.
Dormammu, I’ve come to bargain
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Old Aug 15, 2020, 10:35 PM   #13
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What's with everyones first thought being of killing your past self. If it were me I'd do me first. At least a handy j before the preying mantis style action takes hold.
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 01:29 AM   #14
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Man if I went to the past I will offer myself an Almanac on stocks. Motherbitches.
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 03:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Man if I went to the past I will offer myself an Almanac on stocks. Motherbitches.

But given the branchy stipulation in the question, you just made some other dude rich in a different timeline, not yourself.
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 04:09 AM   #16
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That’s not bad at all either way. Because I will be like hey I want to stay here with that other dude.
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 09:26 AM   #17
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What if you go back in time and instead of killing yourself, you help yourself whack off....does that make you gay?
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 09:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huskylord View Post
What if you go back in time and instead of killing yourself, you help yourself whack off....does that make you gay?
There's a big variable there - do you remember getting rock-n-roll handy from your older self prior to going back in time?
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 11:28 AM   #19
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Voting other.

We are all one of infinite versions of ourselves. If we make a choice there are timelines that exist for all possible outcomes. That you that you see in this timeline is no more you than it is a conglomerate of atoms that were put through similar life experiences minus one. And then if you do meet them, there are infinitely more versions for that bit of a mind **** on the different different you.
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Old Aug 16, 2020, 01:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyko View Post
Dormammu, I’ve come to bargain
You kill me!
No! Wait!
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 12:51 AM   #21
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I call shenanigans on your branchy universe.

Prior to the branch you have one universe, after you have 2 universes... where did all the mass and energy for this branch come from?

You have violated conservatin of energy...unless you destroy the old universe to make the new one.....then you would be ultimate super villain and God.
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 01:10 AM   #22
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You'd be an illegal alien(from an alternate universe) who committed premeditated murder. Pretty straight forward.
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 09:15 AM   #23
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Question is irrelevant.
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 09:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
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You'd be an illegal alien(from an alternate universe) who committed premeditated murder. Pretty straight forward.
As long as your future-self doesn't take all the jobs...
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 09:44 AM   #25
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This is fun sci-fi but it's pretty much all it is. This scenario is the grandfather paradox where you go back and kill your father, yourself, anybody in your family lineage that would supposedly prevent your current existence.

However it's part of a bigger paradox called the Bootstrap paradox, which deals mainly with information being sent back in time. For example, someone traveling back in time to teach Einstein the theory of relativity who then publishes the theory as himself as the author.

http://www.astronomytrek.com/the-boo...dox-explained/

When explored in detail these paradoxes are usually solved by not occuring in the first place. The laws of entropy and causality are forced to be preserved somehow.

We can invoke multiple universes as a "band aid", but this is just as much fantasy because even multiverse theories don't allow these kind of temporal paradoxes.

Lastly, Stephen Hawking said it best. If time travel were possible, we'd have time travelers visiting us all the time. Multiple universes or not. Stephen Hawking even hosted a time traveller's party (spoiler, no time traveler showed up).

It appears there is a hard limit or barrier on causality and entropy in which it cannot be breached, much like accelerating beyond the speed of light cannot be breached.

Keep in mind though, that causality/entropy preserving events do occur that could be interpreted as some kind of time travel. For example, delayed choice quantum eraser experiments. It seems when it does come to causality and entropy, the universe will not allow you to break it
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 10:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
We can invoke multiple universes as a "band aid", but this is just as much fantasy because even multiverse theories don't allow these kind of temporal paradoxes.
Well, that's not really true. In the multiple universe stipulation, it's not that you're changing the past, it's that you're causing the effect that branched the past into the new scenario. Of course, if you "return" to your own time, you won't see anything change, because YOUR timeline didn't get changed, it was one that you can't access at all except by living through it from the point you made the modification.



Quote:
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It appears there is a hard limit or barrier on causality and entropy in which it cannot be breached, much like accelerating beyond the speed of light cannot be breached.

Keep in mind though, that causality/entropy preserving events do occur that could be interpreted as some kind of time travel. For example, delayed choice quantum eraser experiments. It seems when it does come to causality and entropy, the universe will not allow you to break it

Most likely because time is an illusion caused by our ability to only see "the present." Everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, IS. You can't change the past, because the past IS. Any "time travel" that would have occurred, DID occur, and that resulted in the present-future that always was... there is no change. The future IS, and any choices you make are the choices you will be making, but it's not as if you could have made any other choice.

Rather depressing when you think about it, so I don't. Gin and Tonic anyone?
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 11:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by koralis View Post
Well, that's not really true. In the multiple universe stipulation, it's not that you're changing the past, it's that you're causing the effect that branched the past into the new scenario. Of course, if you "return" to your own time, you won't see anything change, because YOUR timeline didn't get changed, it was one that you can't access at all except by living through it from the point you made the modification.


That's what I was talking about. A time travel event that occurs in a branching universe, not the original one. This is a "band aid" scenario. It's not what the current multiverse theories, whether from many worlds to eternal inflation universe to string universes conforms to. Problem with this view is that it should not be a unique occurrence to any single branching universe. If we don't see it ours it's not likely happening in others.







Quote:
Most likely because time is an illusion caused by our ability to only see "the present." Everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, IS. You can't change the past, because the past IS. Any "time travel" that would have occurred, DID occur, and that resulted in the present-future that always was... there is no change. The future IS, and any choices you make are the choices you will be making, but it's not as if you could have made any other choice.

Rather depressing when you think about it, so I don't. Gin and Tonic anyone?

This is called the deterministic view. It used to be prevalent in the scientific community but is no longer the case. Einstein tried to prove a deterministic universe when quantum mechanics came along and failed.



Quantum experiments have forced our understanding of time to change. There is no longer a deterministic view in the scientific community. So you can't say "The future IS, and any choices you make are the choices you will be making, but it's not as if you could have made any other choice" because this is flat out wrong. Experiments involving decoherent histories and quantum erasures shows the past (and future) isn't set in stone. Your perception of it may be, but the universe operates very differently.



THAT is what calls for gin and tonic to wrap your head around, but it's not as depressing as a deterministic view.



Note that even this interpretation of many worlds requires causality/ entropy to be preserved. Most "time travel" scenarios require a specific configuration of a worm hole, but this wormhole collapses instantly because there's a point in its creation where there is an instant of infinite entropy, which is physically impossible. These scenarios tend to use exotic matter to counteract this effect but again, exotic matter is matter that's mathematically consistent but have zero physical applicability.
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 01:58 PM   #28
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I think the larger issue that most of you are ignoring is how you would start fading out of all the pictures.
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 04:02 PM   #29
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why kill myself ?

can i just go back 5 years or so go to see a few movies and pick up a million or so N95's
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Old Aug 17, 2020, 04:12 PM   #30
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According to back to the future you date your own mom
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