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Old Aug 10, 2022, 09:07 AM   #1891
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I've seen a lot of hype over Kingston FURY as well! Apparently majority of their kits are Hynix and they're super cheap.

I haven't heard anything good or bad about Patriot or PNY. Again, before purchasing any kit, Google search them to find out what kind of chips they have. If it's Hynix? Buy. Samsung? For a good price, sure. Micron? Nope.

Adata was used a lot early in DDR5 when there was zero availability. I don't remember anything specifically bad.. I do remember them being cheap, and some coming with no heatspreaders, which appealed to watercoolers.
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Old Aug 10, 2022, 01:41 PM   #1892
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Awesome +1 for that here too.

That sucks to read. Timings still matter somewhat depending on the application.

Look at the pricing for C30-32 6000MHz memory. When you move away from G-Skill you're looking at another $60 which pushes it way over 300.

I guess we know where the heatspreader 'savings' went with the G-Skill stuff this gen.

AHC has some good vids on ram timings and says to largely ignore cas latency as for most apps cas is less important than speed. Sub timings can be important however.

He has several vids on it but not sure which one we should read for now as no one has tested ryzen 7k yet.



He has a long recent string of them so its gets pretty long in the tooth but if ram is important to you...
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Old Aug 10, 2022, 02:58 PM   #1893
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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
https://www.microcenter.com/product/...g6200hc3-black

Best kit for the price that I've seen thus far.

Don't know if this kit is Hynix for sure, but based off the speed+timings, it should be.. I think. Could probably Google it. There's Hynix chip checkers like there was for B-Die

https://www.microcenter.com/product/...5m2b5600-black
Must be good, all sold out in my area. Will keep it in mind, thanks!
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 09:04 AM   #1894
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https://shop.kingston.com/products/b...41738494017728

$212 for a 32GB kit CL40 6000 MT/s.

Much better deal than the other two brands (Corsair, Team T-Force) it seems. Took advantage of the sale and picked up a set. On launch I want to pick up a 7600x and a x670 non "E" board.

Eventually when the 3D cache options hit I'll upgrade and then see if someone here wants to pick up the 7600x for cheap.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 09:57 AM   #1895
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
https://shop.kingston.com/products/b...41738494017728

$212 for a 32GB kit CL40 6000 MT/s.

Much better deal than the other two brands (Corsair, Team T-Force) it seems. Took advantage of the sale and picked up a set. On launch I want to pick up a 7600x and a x670 non "E" board.

Eventually when the 3D cache options hit I'll upgrade and then see if someone here wants to pick up the 7600x for cheap.
Nice!!

Latency not too high? Don't matter at this speed?
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 10:45 AM   #1896
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Have any of you heard anything about the PCIE 5.0 NVME drives and when they are coming out? I read around the time of AM4 launch but nobody has said anything for a while.

I picked up 64GB of 6000mhz C36 Corsair Dominator Platinum today. Just in case things get crazy and people go ape around the launch of the platform or AMD's partners fail to maintain solid stock.

I'm hoping to port over my EVGA 1600 watt power supply. I figure if the mobo and GPU do not come with adapters then I will be able to buy them somewhere for cheap.

I plan to port one of my 2TB NVME 3.0 drives over and buy a new 2TB NVME 5.0 drive when they become available.

Then it will just be a matter of picking which CPU I want and finding a solid mobo combo to buy it with.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 12:01 PM   #1897
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I'd also be interested in getting peoples opinions regarding 3D Vcache. It looks to me like the 58003D is not anywhere near as power efficiant as the 5950. Do you guys think they will make a 16 core chip with 3D Vcache? If they do, have any of you heard anything about the power issues that it may cause and if they might be able to work around them by the end of the year?

I'm just trying to figure out if I should wait for the 3D Vcache versions or simply compare the 7950 with the 13900K and call it quits? I value gaming but I have other things that are important as well. I want 16 cores that won't catch on fire if they are actually used fully. After that, having the best gaming CPU I can get my hands on would be a close second in terms of importance to me.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 12:11 PM   #1898
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Nice!!

Latency not too high? Don't matter at this speed?
I've read that latency isn't very important with ddr 5 because the read and write is so fast.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 03:13 PM   #1899
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
Nice!!
Latency not too high? Don't matter at this speed?
Yah latency not that important. Depending on the app it can make a difference but it's not much. In a year or two when prices come way down and speeds are up I can always pick up another kit and upgrade. For now though 32GB of 6000 will do fine even at CL40. Can always try to o/c it.
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I'm hoping to port over my EVGA 1600 watt power supply. I figure if the mobo and GPU do not come with adapters then I will be able to buy them somewhere for cheap.
Wait wah? I have a 1600W gold EVGA. They changed the connectors on the new boards now and it won't just port right over?

I'd kinda like to have one PCI-E 5.0 16x slot for graphics but it sounds like the non "E" boards from MSI won't support it. You end up having to get an X670E otherwise it's 5.0 16x on storage only.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 04:22 PM   #1900
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Well I was hoping there would be adapter cables that could be used on the 12V Rail. If you have a modular power supply that has a single 140amp rail then I figure you just need to buy cables with the new PCIE lead on one end and the old connectors that plug into your modular supply on the other. If there is not, then I suppose I could make my own but surly they will make them right? The new platform launches next month and there are hardly any power supplies that are PCIE 5.0 compatible on the market and most of them are around 1kw.

I would hate to buy a new power supply when I have such a powerful unit with 4 years left on the warranty. This unit is perfectly capable of pushing out anything that PCIE 5.0 or the next gen hardware will demand.

EDIT:

ok I did some searching and it looks like three 8 pin power connectors can be used with an adapter to power the GPU. Most likely the 4000 series and RDNA 3 will ship with these adaptor cables like last time I would think. I'm not sure about the motherboard though. I guess I should spend a little more time investigating to make sure I don't get stuck with a bunch of expensive hardware and no way to hook it up.

Also about RAM, the availablity is going to increase and prices are expected to drop over the next 8 weeks. https://wccftech.com/consumer-dram-p...18-in-q3-2022/

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Old Aug 11, 2022, 05:00 PM   #1901
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I know MSI's Godlike is 670E and will be overkill and very expensive but what about the 670E ACE? Does anyone know where these are usually priced? I've never purchased an ACE board before, but it looks like the old ones are between 375 and $500 at the moment for past versions. Not cheap but not terrible like the godlike will be.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 05:11 PM   #1902
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K I'm still confused.

So it's not power connectors on the motherboard. You're talking about PCIE 5.0 specific connectors on peripherals that plug into the bus?

You can't just take a 3070 for example and plug it into a PCIE 5.0 slot and use your existing cables and PSU to run it?
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 05:21 PM   #1903
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Honestly, I'm confused as well. I think the new boards and cards have connections that won't work with old power supplies. I was hoping they would ship with cables that can convert multiple 8 pin leads on one end with the new connectors on the other end. If they don't then I figured you would be able to buy them or as a last resort, make them.

I don't think the new boards and GPU's will work with our powersupply connectors that come with our old power supplies and that we will need conversion adaptor cables.

As for using an older card that doesn't need more power, I would think that your old graphic cards would work with the old connectors and nothing additional will be needed.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 06:44 PM   #1904
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Sure new GPUs aren't using standard 8pin PCI-E power. My 3090Ti for example came with a conversion 'octopus' cable for that. I expect new model gpus are all going to be the same and most would come with a conversion cable.

For the new motherboards though it looks like the same standard connectors that would work with existing power supplies based on the photos I've seen.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 06:52 PM   #1905
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I hope so, I don't mind using more 8 pin cables if I need to but I hope the 24Pin doesn't have anything altered, that would be a pain. I plan on buying a 4000 series card around the same time I pick up a new system so I've been planning on running into a few changes with the wiring and I had heard the mobo's needed more power as well and thought they might have a new plug that needed an adaptor. If that's not the case then I will be pleased and there will be nothing to worry about. Even if the GPU needs four 8 pin cables, I'm sure NV will provide an adaptor like last time.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 07:00 PM   #1906
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Are you guys talking about ATX 3.0 connections?

If so, Google ATX 3.0...
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 07:01 PM   #1907
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Hey Riptide, if you don't mind could you tell me what temps you are getting on the 5950X when idle, gaming, and benchmarking? What cooler are you using?
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 07:08 PM   #1908
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Are you guys talking about ATX 3.0 connections?

If so, Google ATX 3.0...
I've read about it and the excursions but I think I will be ok with 1600 watts. I'm pretty sure the 4090 will be 450 watts with 3x excursions fitting within the 1600 envelope. As long as I get conversion cables with the card I'll try it and if my system is unstable then I will buy something else.

Due to the nature of what I use my PC for, I think I'm done overclocking anyway. I need stability and good temps, of course gaming is important which requires performance but a 4090 with a 7950 will be fine for a long while even at stock I'm willing to bet.
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Old Aug 11, 2022, 07:13 PM   #1909
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I've read about it and the excursions but I think I will be ok with 1600 watts. I'm pretty sure the 4090 will be 450 watts with 3x excursions fitting within the 1600 envelope. As long as I get conversion cables with the card I'll try it and if my system is unstable then I will buy something else.
That's the trick though. I don't think that they'll be able to actually make conversion cables. The extra leads from the GPU tells the PSU to ramp up wattage quickly. I don't think that will work as regular PSU's aren't built to do that.

Don't know what kind of backwards compatability will be there either. There are only a hadful of ATX 3.0 PSU's out right now.

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Old Aug 11, 2022, 07:18 PM   #1910
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The way I understand it, is the lead will tell the supply to store the power in the capacitors but if you don't have one you will still be fine as long as the power supply can actually handle triple the load for a few milliseconds. Which mine should be able to do.

EDIT:

I watched the video and I think I'll be fine. The connector can allow the power supply to throttle the card in order to protect itself if it's not able to deliver what the card is asking for but I don't need that with a 1600 watt supply. He says spikes are only 2X the load for a few microseconds which is about 1250 watts if you overclocked the 7950 to it's socket max and had a GPU spike which I don't intend to do. Maybe if the GPU is 600 watts it would be a problem but I have a feeling the only cards doing that other than the 4090TI will be overclocked cards that have optional bios that will allow an extra 100 or 200 watts. I'm not interested in that considering the gains and these new cards are going to be clocked up pretty high anyway. Even then a 1600 watt supply would be driven up to it's max rated output but it would only be for a few milliseconds.

I might experiment with releasing the power limit on the 4090 FE but I don't think I'm going to worry about it for now. Worst thing that will happen is my system would shut off when the power supply's protections kick in and I would consider replacing it then. It doesn't look like Linus is even sure if these power supplies are going to be ready in time for the new systems or if the industry will even use them. I've seen a few 1kw supplies that do but most top notch brands have not bothered with it yet and the new systems are coming out next month.

If I understand it correctly, when the system boots the GPU should do a power check and if it has enough power it will run with or without the new lead.

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Old Aug 12, 2022, 08:42 AM   #1911
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Hey Riptide, if you don't mind could you tell me what temps you are getting on the 5950X when idle, gaming, and benchmarking? What cooler are you using?
EK AIO Elite 360mm D-RGB

Load temps for typical apps are around 57-59c. Ambient 70-72 fahrenheit. Thermal paste is what came on the cooler. I haven't swapped over to kryonaut yet.

If I was running prime95 or mining monero for example the CPU would push higher than that. I haven't tried it so educated guess would be closer to 70c.

I'm not concerned about powering the new motherboards with existing power supplies. I think the existing cables and supplies should work without any adapters but if there is one needed then they will have to bundle them. What kind of crap launch would that be when 99% of your customers couldn't even turn the thing on.

EDIT:
Kingston sale is still going on for CL38/40 'Beast' modules and you can get 10% off if you sign up for their mailer. Wish I had seen that popup yesterday but it wasn't showing on my screen when I submitted the order.

My modules shipped yesterday and are being delivered tomorrow too which is great for free shipping. Too bad I don't have a X670 and CPU to put together yet haha
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Old Aug 12, 2022, 10:43 AM   #1912
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Thanks Rip, I have heard great things about EK's AIO's but those temps sound fantastic. Even if it hits the 80's at times I would be happy. I just hope AMD managed to maintain sanity while pushing their new cores to 5.5Ghz. I hope they don't sizzle too much.

After seeing the heat and power differences with the 58003D I'm starting to second guess waiting for the 3D cache releases later this year. They may not even make a 16 core variant if they are too hot and I want 16 cores or the equivalent for this next build as it will be pushing through 2026.

I ordered a Corsair H170I Elite which has a 420mm radiator. I'm hoping it will give me an edge over the problem on this next build, at the very least it will look pretty in my windowless/minimalistic box that sits in my home theater room.

I'm planning to go with a fractal 7 silencer mid tower. Can't wait for more info from AMD this month. I don't have alot of faith in Intel's ability to stay cool at this point but the leaks show that they sure are pushing alot of performance out of the new 13900K. I have a feeling AMD might be outperformed until the 3D Vcache versions show up a few months later. Most likely they will both be running hot and heavy by then.

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Old Aug 12, 2022, 01:51 PM   #1913
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Wow 420mm AIO that is pretty impressive.

From what I've read there seems to be room in the lineup for a 8c 3D cache version but not for 12c/16c. You may be right about the heat issues which is a bit disappointing if true.

This is gen1 however so who knows what we'll see in the next few years.
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Old Aug 12, 2022, 05:59 PM   #1914
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I have read that as well. I don't want to wait months later and find out the best Vcache chip is 8 core and runs hotter than the 16 core 7950. Also, the 8 core won't be able to compete with the 13900K in multithreading.

When it comes to gaming, I'm not sure that Intel will come out on top this time. They lost the IPC advantage with the 5000 series and now they no longer have a frequency advantage either. Intel's cores are larger and so they suck more power, but they are also easier to cool. I would think AMD might come out ahead in gaming this time even without the 3D cache which would be an interesting flip flop. I'm really not worried about multithreading too much, but I want something that is competitive.

I think AMD will probably have an advantage when it comes to power, but we won't know about heat until they are both released and can compare them. I suspect Intel's new big little design might give them a multi thread performance advantage but probably not too large of one. I'm guessing they will be within 5-10% of each other in both games and multitasking which is why I think temps will be the deciding factor for me.

If AMD were to win at gaming and temps while staying within range in multithreaded apps, I would probably go AMD this time. In fact, this is the reason I went with the 9900K last time. It was the winner across the board at everything and when AMD launched the 3000 series in response, the 9900K was faster at games and a little slower at multithreading. This time AMD is launching first and will be the best at everything and if Intel responds with a slower gaming chip and a little faster multithreading ability it will be a done deal for me. Now power and temps are more important than they were with the 9900K as things have gotten much worse so there is that swaying my decision as well. I'll give Intel a chance since I don't have to wait an entire year for their response but I'm not confident I will be satisfied with the power and heat from them this time. To be honest, I'm not 100% confident in AMD's heat either. The power is lower I can see that but they are pushing similar clocks on a smaller core so it will come down to how well their cooling design works and how much 5nm gave in power savings. They are saying 25%, will it be enough to combat 12% clock increases on a shrunk down core? Can't wait to find out.

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Old Aug 12, 2022, 08:12 PM   #1915
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
I'd also be interested in getting peoples opinions regarding 3D Vcache. It looks to me like the 58003D is not anywhere near as power efficiant as the 5950.
Where did you see that the 5800X3D isn't as power efficient? It only clocks up to 4400 MHz multi-core and (rarely) 4500 MHz single core, so generally it should be more efficient than the other 5000 series CPU that boost higher using more voltage.

If you use Curve Optimizer to set -30 offset on all cores, which most 5800X3D can do without issue, then it is even more efficient and basically just stays pegged at 4400 MHz max boost.

Of course, for heavily multi-threaded workloads its obviously not a match for the 5950X because it has only 8 cores. Overall system efficiency may be higher on the 5950X in that case since there are the constant loads from GPUs/motherboard/other components that won't change whether you're running 16 cores or 8 cores. 5950X also has the best binned cores, along with 5800X3D.

If you're talking temperature then the 5800X3D may run hotter due to having the Vcache on top of the die, that's not about power efficiency though but rather cooling efficiency. Having a 5950X, 5800X3D and 5900X, I'd say the 5800X3D does run about 10 degrees hotter in heavy workloads than the others (just based off of general observation, not detailed tracking). Gaming/lighter loads there's no real difference. Once you apply a -30 curve it's as cool or cooler than the others, but that is obviously not something that will necessarily transfer over to Ryzen 7000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
Do you guys think they will make a 16 core chip with 3D Vcache? If they do, have any of you heard anything about the power issues that it may cause and if they might be able to work around them by the end of the year?

I'm just trying to figure out if I should wait for the 3D Vcache versions or simply compare the 7950 with the 13900K and call it quits? I value gaming but I have other things that are important as well. I want 16 cores that won't catch on fire if they are actually used fully. After that, having the best gaming CPU I can get my hands on would be a close second in terms of importance to me.
If you're not desperate to upgrade I would just wait the extra couple of months to see what the Vcache versions have to offer. I'm not sure they'll come out with 16 core versions, but as long as your current system is still serving you it doesn't hurt to wait to see.
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Old Aug 12, 2022, 09:27 PM   #1916
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I can't remember but it may have been tomshardware. Basically they lowered the speed of the 5950 and disabled half of it's cores and compared it to the 58003D at the same core clocks and the 3D was using more power and getting considerably more hot. If you check the 58003D review at techpowerup they show that multithread power usage is the same as a 5950X despite having half the cores and 300Mhz lower clocks.

I figure if it's 10C more hot and you double the number of cores it could be a problem with heat and power. The resulting speed decrease could make the extra cores poor performers at multitasking.

I don't mind waiting but I hope AMD makes it clear what they intend to release in terms of core counts in the 3D area so I will know if I should wait or not. I'm anxious to upgrade but not to the point of making dumb decisions.

Despite my interest and attention to performance metrics I find that I really am not all that hardcore about performance as long as it's competitive and stays cool and stable. It might be because I've been GPU bound for so long that I'm less demanding of cutting edge CPU performance this time or maybe I'm just getting careless as I age. Part of it is that I've moved away from gaming a bit and started using my computer to modify and reanimate animations for mod projects that I'm involved in.

I'm not demanding that AMD clean sweep Intel in order for me to buy but if I'm going to pay high dollar then it needs to compete in both areas not just gaming. If the 7950 is $800 that is fine but if intel drops a $600 chip that can match it in gaming and beat in in multithreading then I would consider that a pretty serious threat. Especially if AMD's backup plan involves a 3D cache chip that can only compete at video games.

Right now you can buy AMD if you want the best gaming and don't care about anything else but Intel's 12900KS offers competitive gaming and multithreading in a single chip which is more interesting to me. Still, I don't like Intel's power and heat and while it offers both great gaming and multithread performance it's still second best at gaming which I favor most and with the heat issues on top.

I think the 5950X was a top FX level chip for it's time and Intels KS came out much later so I think AMD took home the cake last time. I will side with AMD this time as long as they stay competitive in both areas with better thermals. They don't have to beat Intel but they need to compete in both areas not just gaming. I think the 7950X will be able to do that and I don't believe the 3D cache parts will unless they have had a breakthrough since the 58003D.

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Old Aug 12, 2022, 10:59 PM   #1917
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I'm leaning towards 7900x next upgrade. I like the idea of 12 beefy cores more than 8 p-cores + little e-cores. But as usual, wait for reviews.
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Old Aug 12, 2022, 11:28 PM   #1918
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Hey demo, it's been a while since i've seen you. I've heard alot of people say that about Intels E cores. It doesn't bother me personally, but Intel might have a marketing problem if a large portion of consumers simply don't like the idea of small cores.

I think they are going to give intel more multithread ability and power savings in the long run but Intel should consider increasing the P core count at least a little because I think games will start using more than 8 cores eventually. Could be 5 years yet but it's coming and they will have to balance it to satisfy the consumer base and increasing core usage in games.
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Old Aug 12, 2022, 11:45 PM   #1919
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If Intel increased the p-core count I'd likely go with them. My system is mostly for gaming and already had two 8 core cpus, don't particularly want another.
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Old Aug 13, 2022, 12:02 AM   #1920
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Yeah I kind of figured, that seems to be the consensus and it might hurt them this time. Hopefully, they will key into the current interests of the public and make the changes they need to.

Personally, I think my obsession with the 7950X is that I also have had 8 cores at 5Ghz for 4 years and since clock speed has only improved 500Mhz I'm looking for something more substantial if I'm going to pay out $500+ for a chip. That and I don't upgrade as often and I'm 3d rendering and animating so I need a little extra to carry me through to the next upgrade.

Doubling the cores and threads with a small clock bump is enough to satisfy my demands for something substantially better. Through really, IPC has probably improved nearly 50% since the 9900K so any chip would be a nice improvement, but it has to feel worth it in a more straight forward way or something like that. Either way, we will hardly notice anything in games until the 4000 series lifts these damnable GPU limitations.
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