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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Jan 15, 2011, 09:03 AM   #61
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A few more games.
Awesome!
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 09:16 AM   #62
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Just tried Ghost Recon and indeed, it does work. Granted, it may not be ideal but sure is nice to have the choice to have edge or full-scene in the title.
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 09:20 AM   #63
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i've just tried everything on Halo 1 and nothing worked

i know im in the minority actually enjoying that title, but still, the jaggies must be assimilated
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 10:58 AM   #64
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another update:

Spiderman: Shattered Dimension - 0x004110C1

this one works much better. completely playable on my gtx260.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 07:58 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
i know im in the minority actually enjoying that title, but still, the jaggies must be assimilated
Death to jaggies!!

Did you try MLAA?
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 10:31 AM   #66
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Did you try MLAA?


is halo even dx9, and does MLAA work on older then dx 9 games?
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 09:49 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post


is halo even dx9, and does MLAA work on older then dx 9 games?
MLAA is working on HALO.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 03:12 AM   #68
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MLAA is working on HALO.
bastard!
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 08:21 AM   #69
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bastard!
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 08:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaStar View Post
i've just tried everything on Halo 1 and nothing worked

i know im in the minority actually enjoying that title, but still, the jaggies must be assimilated
I love first Halo too, the combat is great. Playing now with MLAA
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 18, 2011, 08:59 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
Could anyone with 570/80 and Dead Space installed post performance 4xAA + forced AO (quality and high quality from nV inspector)? Wouldn't like to go 570 and see it insufficient...
Since the new WHQL drivers have the necessary AA flags I got around to testing this.

I had things setup as follows:
SSAO set to Quality
AA turned off in game; 4xAA enabled in driver via 0x004030C0 compatibilty flag
Vsync turned off in game; vsync forced, along with triple buffering via D3DOverrider
All other in-game setting enabled or on high
Running at 1920x1080 on a stock clocked GTX 570

Performance was highly dependent on whether a specific rendering "action" was present:

When just walking around normally, performance was a fairly consitent 60fps. Occasional drops to high 50s based on the room's geometry complexity.

However, when aiming at a close enemy or in certain scenes with spotlights, framerate dropped to the low 40s. It seems the culprit taking its toll on the performance here is when the game needs to generate dynamic shadows from point lights - such as the flashlight when aiming with weapons, or when there are spotlights that shine through windows and stuff like that. I say close enemy, because it seems when an enemy is more than around 8-10 meters away the game doesn't bother generating flashlight shadows for them, thus the performance hit doesn't occur until they get within "shadow range".

I never saw a framerate lower than 40fps - and that doesn't sound too bad - however the almost instant drop from 60fps into the 40fps when you start aiming at an enemy is fairly noticable.

Setting SSAO to Performance didn't make much of an improvement. Probably gained maybe 2-3fps in demanding areas, if that. Still incurred a large hit with the point lights.

With SSAO disabled, framerate was a rock solid 60fps at all times. Personally, I barely noticed a difference in the visuals with SSAO. The game is so dark in most places to begin with that SSAO seems a little pointless. I've seen comparison screenshots and while I admit that SSAO definitely stands out in static screenshots; while actually playing the game, I can't really say it looked any better. I'm certainly not going to use it over preference to AA, and won't miss it.

Last edited by Sweetz : Jan 18, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 10:22 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
Since the new WHQL drivers have the necessary AA flags I got around to testing this.

I had things setup as follows:
SSAO set to Quality
AA turned off in game; 4xAA enabled in driver via 0x004030C0 compatibilty flag
Vsync turned off in game; vsync forced, along with triple buffering via D3DOverrider
All other in-game setting enabled or on high
Running at 1920x1080 on a stock clocked GTX 570

Performance was highly dependent on whether a specific rendering "action" was present:

When just walking around normally, performance was a fairly consitent 60fps. Occasional drops to high 50s based on the room's geometry complexity.

However, when aiming at a close enemy or in certain scenes with spotlights, framerate dropped to the low 40s. It seems the culprit taking its toll on the performance here is when the game needs to generate dynamic shadows from point lights - such as the flashlight when aiming with weapons, or when there are spotlights that shine through windows and stuff like that. I say close enemy, because it seems when an enemy is more than around 8-10 meters away the game doesn't bother generating flashlight shadows for them, thus the performance hit doesn't occur until they get within "shadow range".

I never saw a framerate lower than 40fps - and that doesn't sound too bad - however the almost instant drop from 60fps into the 40fps when you start aiming at an enemy is fairly noticable.

Setting SSAO to Performance didn't make much of an improvement. Probably gained maybe 2-3fps in demanding areas, if that. Still incurred a large hit with the point lights.

With SSAO disabled, framerate was a rock solid 60fps at all times. Personally, I barely noticed a difference in the visuals with SSAO. The game is so dark in most places to begin with that SSAO seems a little pointless. I've seen comparison screenshots and while I admit that SSAO definitely stands out in static screenshots; while actually playing the game, I can't really say it looked any better. I'm certainly not going to use it over preference to AA, and won't miss it.
Thank you very much for the report! 570 in the way
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:49 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
Personally, I barely noticed a difference in the visuals with SSAO. The game is so dark in most places to begin with that SSAO seems a little pointless. I've seen comparison screenshots and while I admit that SSAO definitely stands out in static screenshots; while actually playing the game, I can't really say it looked any better. I'm certainly not going to use it over preference to AA, and won't miss it.
I know it is a subtle effect but are you positive that AO is working at all? I mean, forced AA + AO combinations didn't work with gtx 2xx series afair and I can't find a clear answer anywhere whether it changed or not. AO can be not working despite the performance hit, I saw something like that with my GTX 470 I think.

Great, detailed report from you btw. Really appreciate it.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:08 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
I know it is a subtle effect but are you positive that AO is working at all?
Pretty sure. When I was specifically looking for the effect, more or less just looking at an area without moving around, I could see the extra shading around objects. The thing is, if I was just playing the game normally and not specifically looking for it, I couldn't tell difference - at least not back to back. I mean if I saw them running side-by-side I could probably tell; but not running one and then the other.

I'll take some screenshots with on vs off when I get home just to be absolutely sure.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:34 AM   #75
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just a heads up that there was a minor update to nvidia inspector, the link remains the same though.

- voltage tweak workaround for crap evga gtx580 sc bios
- added CLI option "-showOnlyCSN"
- added CLI option "-setPStateLimit"
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:51 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
Pretty sure. When I was specifically looking for the effect, more or less just looking at an area without moving around, I could see the extra shading around objects. The thing is, if I was just playing the game normally and not specifically looking for it, I couldn't tell difference - at least not back to back. I mean if I saw them running side-by-side I could probably tell; but not running one and then the other.

I'll take some screenshots with on vs off when I get home just to be absolutely sure.
Thanks for ther answer, I will try for myself soon anyway. I see it as an additional depth and love the effect to death.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:00 PM   #77
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Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think that feature adds depth, you should try some-how to find a way to investigate Stereo3d.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:24 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think that feature adds depth, you should try some-how to find a way to investigate Stereo3d.
Yep might have heard that from you before

Spending money on a new GPU is more than enough strain on my budget. Even small loses from resseling hurt in fact but I want to have exactly what I need now. That's because a year from now I won't have time to even touch games probably.

Also find the glasses annoying - might be a superstition but helps me sparing money so I'm going to leave it as it is.
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My 40nm path :nuts: HIS HD 5850 -> GIGABYTE GTX 470 -> ZOTAC GTX 480 -> HIS HD [email protected] -> MSI GTX 570 -> ZOTAC GTX 470 -> PNY GTX 580

Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:32 PM   #79
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Ok SSAO is definitely working with AA. However, it took me like 4 tries to find a spot where you could actually see the difference and even then it's pretty minimal. I turned AA off to see if it was someone just "diminishing" the SSAO effect - and it's not. SSAO simply isn't all that noticeable in this game, I really wouldn't bother using it.


SSAO on:


SSAO off:

Last edited by Sweetz : Jan 21, 2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:35 PM   #80
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I've never used NV Inspector before, anyone got any tips on how to force AA in various games? Just started playing Crysis (way behind on my games list) and would like to see some SSAA to make all that foliage look crisp. I tried simply forcing 8xSQ in the Crysis profile but that didn't seem to work, also tried the global profile but it didn't seem to work either. What settings should I be using? I can use in-game AA up to 16xQ CSAA and it looks decent, but I know my card's got more horsepower so I might as well use it.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:44 PM   #81
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If you can run Crysis at decent framerates with anything above 4xMSAA, then you either aren't cranking up the rest of the game settings high enough, you have a magic 570 (even considering a healthy overclock), or I was doing something majorly wrong!

Crysis was the first thing I played on my GTX 570 - and to get it to run acceptably (at least to my standards) I had to run it in DX9 with slightly compromised settings (most, but not everything equivalent to Very High) and 4xMSAA. I didn't like the framerate going below 45fps with that game though, so I guess I had fairly strict FPS standards as far as Crysis is concerned.

In any case, I can barely tell the difference with anything over 4xAA in games anyway so it's not a big deal to me.

Last edited by Sweetz : Jan 21, 2011 at 07:23 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:23 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
I've never used NV Inspector before, anyone got any tips on how to force AA in various games? Just started playing Crysis (way behind on my games list) and would like to see some SSAA to make all that foliage look crisp. I tried simply forcing 8xSQ in the Crysis profile but that didn't seem to work, also tried the global profile but it didn't seem to work either. What settings should I be using? I can use in-game AA up to 16xQ CSAA and it looks decent, but I know my card's got more horsepower so I might as well use it.
crysis uses its own AA method from what i recall, its not standard MSAA, so your stuck with in game AA, unless you want to test out the various compatibilty settings to posibly find one that works. i don't think anyone bothered since the AA selection is quite detailed in game.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 09:06 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
If you can run Crysis at decent framerates with anything above 4xMSAA, then you either aren't cranking up the rest of the game settings high enough, you have a magic 570 (even considering a healthy overclock), or I was doing something majorly wrong!

Crysis was the first thing I played on my GTX 570 - and to get it to run acceptably (at least to my standards) I had to run it in DX9 with slightly compromised settings (most, but not everything equivalent to Very High) and 4xMSAA. I didn't like the framerate going below 45fps with that game though, so I guess I had fairly strict FPS standards as far as Crysis is concerned.

In any case, I can barely tell the difference with anything over 4xAA in games anyway so it's not a big deal to me.
My 570's clocked @ 875/1750/4400 and my Core 2 Quad 9550 is @ 4GHz. Running maxed in-game settings (I refuse to play games without maxing out the settings, which is why it took me so long to play Crysis) + 16xQ in-game. I didn't have an FPS counter enabled but I played for about half an hour and never felt the FPS dip, was smooth the whole way through (except when loading from HD, of course).
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:59 PM   #84
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That doesn't seem plausible, but I'm not suggesting your lying, I'm just surprised...and concerned. Maybe those clock speeds make a bigger difference than I'm thinking.

I'm not very comfortable with overclocking.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:45 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
That doesn't seem plausible, but I'm not suggesting your lying, I'm just surprised...and concerned. Maybe those clock speeds make a bigger difference than I'm thinking.

I'm not very comfortable with overclocking.
Well his claims are very subjective, no FPS counter for starters.
If you are only getting 30 fps you probably wouldnt notice dips to 25 as both run like ass, if however the game plays at a constant 60fps vsync and dipped to 40 fps you would notice instantly.
I have also seen ShaidarHaran post in the past that 30fps is fluid for him, so keep that in mind when reading his performance description.

The other thing is Crysis is very light on the GPU in the first level and only really starts to hammer your GPU as you progress through the game. As for HDD loading causing hitching etc, disable texture streaming in the config, the game will be smooth as butter.

And dont be scared to oc, the 570 and 580 oc like champs with almost linear scaling in performance.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 08:46 AM   #86
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I am usually a wimp with over-clocking, too, but Fermi was the first GPU where I targeted an OC.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:04 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
Ok SSAO is definitely working with AA.
I can't see it in your shots. It should be visible on the character:

http://www.thg.ru/game/dead_space/onepage.html

and is overall much more noticable:

http://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=h...1t:429,r:0,s:0

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Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
I really wouldn't bother using it.
Might be because it doesn't work. I saw that with the latest driver I used for my gtx 470. I tested in the place from the second screenshot and didn't work even without AA I think. Would be a shame as AO + AA should be incredible in Dead Space
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:26 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
I can't see it in your shots. It should be visible on the character:

http://www.thg.ru/game/dead_space/onepage.html

and is overall much more noticable:

http://www.google.pl/imgres?imgurl=http://i41.tinypic.com/24zyccn.gif&imgrefurl=http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D295113%26page%3D2&usg=__GPqEsSKv5oREA3piH1rRAnfs2AQ=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=1871&hl=p l&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=JuJ_bJDnngdWbM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=211&ei=Svw6TdC1BNS48gPy2NWoCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dambient%2Bocclusion%2Bin%2Bdead%2Bspace%26hl%3Dpl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozillalfficial%26biw%3D1152%26bih%3D674%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divns&itb s=1&iact=hc&vpx=144&vpy=56&dur=947&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=110&ty=128&oei=Svw6TdC1BNS48gPy2NWoCA&esq=1& page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0



Might be because it doesn't work. I saw that with the latest driver I used for my gtx 470. I tested in the place from the second screenshot and didn't work even without AA I think. Would be a shame as AO + AA should be incredible in Dead Space
This is with the quality setting, maybe the difference is more pronounced with ao set at high quality, but it does seem to be working.

High quality


Quality


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Last edited by Mangler : Jan 22, 2011 at 10:36 AM. Reason: added a screenshot using the high quality setting
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:32 AM   #89
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I can't see it in your shots. It should be visible on the character:
i dunno how you dont see it, look at those 4 pipes, wall ribs next to the soda can.

the one with AO on look much better.

the characters neck arena and his armpits also have much better lighing due to AO.

you said you can't live witohut AO, but you can't even notice it


even the plasma cutter itself looks bulkier due to AO.

Last edited by GanjaStar : Jan 22, 2011 at 10:37 AM.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:51 AM   #90
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You can use MSAA in halo but you have to disable the render targets so half the effects will be missing (like water for example) making it not worth it.
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