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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Jan 16, 2009, 02:40 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor1 View Post


Where is the chest pumping of the 1900 series and physics support?



Physics has been an integral part of game developement since the birth of 3d
Is Havok open source? No it isn't, why was it selected by AMD if they are so against "proprietary standards"? Thats just hypocracy at its best

Those are my two points i raise and shake my head. Don't know how some can be so against nVidia trying and yet ignore the above points, too. At least I was bonkers with the 1900 and bonkers now and have past posts to prove it.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 03:08 PM   #182
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Ill sum it up boys BLU-Ray vs HD Ill wait to get my hardware to support the industry standard and right now it isn't PhysX and I doubt it will be in the future when the dust clears. Sony and Sony pictures pushed BR so HD failed Intel pushes Havok so PhysX will fail nVidia doesn't have the recourses of Intel nor the support from AMD.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:02 PM   #183
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That's your choice! For others, it may be, well, I'll enjoy PhysX now and in the near future and as time passes -- still have the choice of other vehicles moving forward that may provide more immersion from GPU Physics as well.

I see this as tools and a vehicle -- not the end-all-be-all.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 04:38 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesterOnYer6 View Post
Ill sum it up boys BLU-Ray vs HD Ill wait to get my hardware to support the industry standard and right now it isn't PhysX and I doubt it will be in the future when the dust clears. Sony and Sony pictures pushed BR so HD failed Intel pushes Havok so PhysX will fail nVidia doesn't have the recourses of Intel nor the support from AMD.

I don't see the analogy, BR had to compete with HD, there is no competition for the time being for physX
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What exactly do you think would happen if you *did* connect a large load? The arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

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and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 01:50 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor1 View Post
I don't see the analogy, BR had to compete with HD, there is no competition for the time being for physX
Not only that it costs the user nothing, It's a free feature given to Nvidia users for nothing.

However people like to complain about anything nowadays.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 10:46 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
Not only that it costs the user nothing, It's a free feature given to Nvidia users for nothing.

However people like to complain about anything nowadays.
I made a prediction based on the article and you and Razor are complaining about it so I see what you mean.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 10:53 AM   #187
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Would understand your point if nVidia wasn't behind OpenCL and the compute Shaders in DirectX 11 and only supporting PhysX.

The only difference I see is nVidia is spending more resources than ATI.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 11:27 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Would understand your point if nVidia wasn't behind OpenCL and the compute Shaders in DirectX 11 and only supporting PhysX.

The only difference I see is nVidia is spending more resources than ATI.
Yes they do have more marketing resources we are all very aware of that we see it in every thread we read, and on many hardware websites running flash advertising.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 12:26 PM   #189
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That's a total insult to their hard work and talent over-all; of trying to bring GPU Physics to the consumer now. You're entitled to your only marketing view and some may agree with it as well.

Personally desire static environments to die and come to life with many dynamic elements. PhysX may be a nice step for this and nothing more.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 12:30 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
That's a total insult to their hard work and talent over-all; of trying to bring GPU Physics to the consumer now. You're entitled to your only marketing view and some may agree with it as well.

Personally desire static environments to die and come to life with many dynamic elements. PhysX may be a nice step for this and nothing more.
DUDE,

It is hardware you don't work for them What is your deal all I said was that PhysX is not the future standard IMO don't get all butt hurt over it.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 12:56 PM   #191
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It is very disrespectful of hardworking engineers that do the amazing things they do from ATI or nVidia. Sadly, market people cast shadows and shine lights and some follow their marketing views.

I am trying to learn more about what GPU Physics can do to improve the gaming experience now and moving forward. If you haven't noticed; it's the only option right now to learn more about GPU Physics.

You seem to live in the ATI vs nVidia paradox bubble and can't get out of it, Jester.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 01:11 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
It is very disrespectful of hardworking engineers that do the amazing things they do from ATI or nVidia. Sadly, market people cast shadows and shine lights and some follow their marketing views.

I am trying to learn more about what GPU Physics can do to improve the gaming experience now and moving forward. If you haven't noticed; it's the only option right now to learn more about GPU Physics.

You seem to live in the ATI vs nVidia paradox bubble and can't get out of it, Jester.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 01:30 PM   #193
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Your view is noted and some may have similar or different views and why choice is so paramount. Thankfully companies all don't share the same identical message at the same exact time.

You need to leave your comfortable ATI vs nVidia Paradox bubble for some time. Take a breath and appreciate why choice from nVidia and ATI is so important for the consumer instead of just ATI.

I have faith in you and believe in you Jester.

Hopefully, I can try to find some PhysX data for this thread and appreciate others, specifically Zogrim, very kind!

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Old Jan 17, 2009, 01:45 PM   #194
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Just finished reading gaming heaven's view on PhysX with Mirror's Edge and over-all was impressed by offering significant impact.

Taking about Graphics:

Quote:
Quite bland, but the adoption of Nvidia PhsyX adds significant impact to the environments.
http://www.gamingheaven.net/gamingre...p?reviewid=689
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 02:11 PM   #195
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Doing some reading on Mafia 2 -- and it may be using PhysX and listed in some unofficial sources:

http://physx.cwx.ru/

http://personal.inet.fi/atk/kjh2348fs/physx.html
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 03:21 PM   #196
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 03:27 PM   #197
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Many things die but it's what one does while living Jester.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 05:42 PM   #198
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Quote:
Havok products are used by over 70 of the world's leading game developers in more than 150 titles for Wii, PlayStation®3, PlayStation®2, PSP™, Xbox360™, Xbox, GameCube™, and the PC.
OK I am in on the PHYSICS wagon however judging by the amount of titles using Havok I see the future goiung Havok with HW acceleration.

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Old Jan 17, 2009, 06:12 PM   #199
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some of those titles are old PS2 and gamecube, Havok has been around for much longer then Ageia.
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Originally Posted by silent_guy View Post
What exactly do you think would happen if you *did* connect a large load? The arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corum Jhaelen Irsei View Post
and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.
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Old Jan 17, 2009, 06:38 PM   #200
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Quote:
OK I am in on the PHYSICS wagon however judging by the amount of titles using Havok I see the future goiung Havok with HW acceleration
That's when I can say the word)

First, PhysX SDK already beat Havok in titles amount, if count all platforms (since 2006)

Second, yes, PhysX SDK already can be called a standard for PC games, it's used in more PC titles than other physics engines combined. Analogous, Havok is standart for console development

Third, PhysX and Havok are both proprietary, but PhysX SDK is free for all platforms, and Havok SDK- not, so it can not be standard a priori.

Fourth and last, there already was hardware Havok physics solution, called Havok FX, supported with BOTH Nvidia and ATI. But it has fee based license, so developers weren't interested, and it died not even born.

That's pure facts, no need in controversy)
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Old Jan 18, 2009, 12:43 AM   #201
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I read in this months Maximum PC that they asked NVIDIA if they were going to license Physx to someone like ATI and NVIDIA said that they (ATI) need to program a c-compiler to make Physx run on their hardware and that they are free to do so if they want to. Someone already has done so 6 months ago on a 3850. Don't know if it has been posted but I'll put up the link anyway.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...dified_drivers
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 01:21 AM   #202
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Interesting interview, describing Nvidia position about revealing future games with GPU PhysX support (translated from Czech)

Anchors us, what other titles are going to support PhysX?
Unfortunately, to a question I can not answer because, in agreement with the developers, we decided that we will not publish any list of games, which is not completed development. Our strategy is to issue every month at least one AAA title, with the support of PhysX. his month we have Mirror's Edge, in February it will Cryostasis and already we can not say anything. The only thing I can reveal that it can not wait to be here April. This month is going to (if you abide by the date of issue) game which is personally very excited and I think certainly not alone.

:: Link
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 03:03 AM   #203
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Physix is cool. I love it. Why buy ATi when ATi has comparable performance and prices when there is a cool feature like this to be had when buying Nvidia.

ATi needs to step up and build physix support into their cards. How could anyone complain if it became a new standard.... exactly.
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 09:08 AM   #204
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That was a nice article and the benches with "PhysX on" not only adds significant immersion offered by some sites, but enough performance to enjoy the title as well.

It was nice to see Mafia 2 talked a bit..........loved the original Mafia.

The discussion on DirectX 11's compute shaders and PhysX was welcomed to.
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 10:22 AM   #205
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So I have a PhysX 100 card in my laptop and 2 GeForce 8700M GT's capable of both doing physx, when I turn it on, does the game use the PPU AND GPU for physx or do I have to disable physx support in Nvidia control panel to get the game to use the built in card?
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 06:16 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesterOnYer6 View Post
OK I am in on the PHYSICS wagon however judging by the amount of titles using Havok I see the future goiung Havok with HW acceleration.
Downside is they dont have any atm.
Seems they´re holding everything HW accelerated back until Larrabee or something.
Intel don´t seem very keen on moving anything off the CPU until it can be moved onto another Intel part..

What speaks for havok is that they have a whole range of tools that are connected to the physics engine and are already embedded in the pipeline for many companies.
One example here is GRAW that used Havok, and PhysX ontop of their current Havok implementation for the HW accelerated parts.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 09:58 AM   #207
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So I have a PhysX 100 card in my laptop and 2 GeForce 8700M GT's capable of both doing physx, when I turn it on, does the game use the PPU AND GPU for physx or do I have to disable physx support in Nvidia control panel to get the game to use the built in card?

This may depend on actual PhysX gaming title. There are some Ageia PhysX titles that will garner acceleration from only the PPU but not the GPU....... and now moving forward with newer content with the GPU but not the PPU. There are some that may do both PPU and GPU -- pretty confusing, hehe!

If you have the GPU and PPU -- depending on title you should be able to change them in the PhysX properties or PhysX settings. I think, never tested these configurations first hand so take my view with a huge pinch of salt.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 11:52 AM   #208
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Here is another title that may offer GPU Physics and listed in Zogrim's site/signature.

http://physx.cwx.ru/

Based on the new terminator movie:

http://www.grin.se/news.aspx?i=112

Interesting it mentions from Grin -- probably has GPU Physics, one may imagine.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:26 PM   #209
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While checking out Grin's site -- there is another title that looks nice as well


Wanted:Weapons of Fate:

http://thewanted.warnerbros.com/


Noticed this is listed unofficially at Zogrim's site as well.

http://physx.cwx.ru/


Also found this Interview and offers Bionic Commando, Terminator, and this Wanted title all share the same engine.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=21717
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Old Feb 9, 2009, 10:29 AM   #210
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Here is another title that may be using GPU Physics: Metro 2033: The Last Refuge


Quote:
What are the strengths of the graphics engine you’ve developed?

There isn’t a single static light source; basically, light bulbs “shake and break.” The number of light sources in a frame is limited by common sense, not by programmers. But fully dynamic lighting isn’t an end in itself; it allows us to create the game in the process of playing it, without wasting time on recalculation of lightmaps, shadows, and other stuff. We also use visualization technology to give the game a film-like image, and we’re adding 64-bit HDR with eye adaptation, depth of field, motion blur, and PhysX
http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/metro-...19161559256082
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