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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Dec 12, 2008, 09:06 PM   #121
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Does nPhysX support Cell factor?
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 11:14 PM   #122
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I don't think so as it would have to developed using a supported version of PhysX that ran on CUDA, of which the 2.7.3 SDK was the first to support it; If a game needs that version of PhysX installed (or newer) I think it's likely it supports GPU accelerated PhysX.
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Old Dec 13, 2008, 08:02 AM   #123
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Quote:
Does nPhysX support Cell factor?
No. First, Cellfactor is using SDK 2.6.2 (Revolution) or 2.4.9 (Combat Training).. GPU acceleration is supported with SDK 2.7 and beyond)
Secondly, Cellfactor contains many rigid bodies, joints, and other stuff, which isn't supported with GPU PhysX now)
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Old Dec 13, 2008, 10:02 AM   #124
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Will GPU Physics eventually support many rigid bodies, joints, etc.?
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Old Dec 13, 2008, 01:34 PM   #125
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If the PhysX guys add the code to the API. Last I heard it was on the roadmap but they want to get OpenGL 3 implemented first; now thats done (or least launched) then its possible its under development now.
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Old Dec 13, 2008, 04:44 PM   #126
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PhysX sounds really interesting and exciting. I got one question though.

If PhysX is using your GPU for calculations and the game is maxing out the GPU then what is being sacrificed, graphics wise, to allow a diversion of hardware resources for PhysX?
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Old Dec 13, 2008, 09:01 PM   #127
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Fps.
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 03:28 AM   #128
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Quote:
Will GPU Physics eventually support many rigid bodies, joints, etc.?
Of course, since without RB and other stuff physics will always be eye-candy style only) All this will be in PhysX SDK 3.0, which is planned mid 2009 release)
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 03:04 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogrim View Post
Of course, since without RB and other stuff physics will always be eye-candy style only) All this will be in PhysX SDK 3.0, which is planned mid 2009 release)

Thanks, it's just nice to know when.
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 06:12 PM   #130
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First - "Big Stuff coming for SLI + PhysX flexibility" topic from ChrisRay (moderator at Slizone)
http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?...pic=31241&st=0
Not sure what it will be, but definitely something sweet)

Second - complete presentation "Graphics Plus PhysX Update"
http://www.extrahardware.cz/geforce-...ytahuje-zbrane

Sacred 2 is again in roadmap, looks like they want to release PhysX effects patch or something)
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 06:39 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogrim View Post
Of course, since without RB and other stuff physics will always be eye-candy style only) All this will be in PhysX SDK 3.0, which is planned mid 2009 release)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Thanks, it's just nice to know when.
That tells you when the SDK will support it, not when games/apps will support using it.
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 08:35 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogrim View Post
First - "Big Stuff coming for SLI + PhysX flexibility" topic from ChrisRay (moderator at Slizone)
http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?...pic=31241&st=0
Not sure what it will be, but definitely something sweet)

Second - complete presentation "Graphics Plus PhysX Update"
http://www.extrahardware.cz/geforce-...ytahuje-zbrane

Sacred 2 is again in roadmap, looks like they want to release PhysX effects patch or something)
Neat! ChrisRay has always been a tease, hehe!
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 08:40 PM   #133
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Pretty happy about Sacred 2 -- like that franchise.
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Old Dec 15, 2008, 09:55 AM   #134
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Default PhysX: Where’s the beef?

"Developing games that really take advantage of PhysX is surely not an easy task. The added difficulty here will likely increase production time, which will probably put a damper on NVIDIA’s plans for PhysX. In light of the company’s recent announcement that major game developers EA and Take Two will be integrating PhysX into upcoming titles, it is definitely possible that the technology will become more widespread over time. While it is nice to see the GPGPU industry moving forward, the argument for buying NVIDIA video cards over superior offerings from AMD solely for their PhysX capability will remain weak until we start seeing some really strong titles emerging that make use of the technology. AMD’s commitment to Intel’s Havok and its software accelerated physics could prove more beneficial in the short term and provide some serious competition to PhysX when newer titles materialize. Until then, I have one question for NVIDIA about PhysX: Where’s the beef?"

http://www.fpslabs.com/features/edit...heres-the-beef
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Old Dec 15, 2008, 10:46 AM   #135
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Quote:
the argument for buying NVIDIA video cards over superior offerings from AMD solely for their PhysX capability will remain weak until we start seeing some really strong titles emerging that make use of the technology.
What is this based on? What makes AMD's so superior to offer this blanket view?

Quote:
AMD’s commitment to Intel’s Havok and its software accelerated physics could prove more beneficial in the short term and provide some serious competition to PhysX when newer titles materialize. Until then, I have one question for NVIDIA about PhysX: Where’s the beef?"
This is like double speak - double think wording. By AMD offering basically nothing in the GPU Physics realm at this time is somehow beneficial in the short term and not worthy of "Where's the beef?" Yet, here is nVidia whom has transformed PhysX to the GPU and trying to bring this to the gamer while offering some content with more moving forward with some impressive wins for content moving forward.

Where's the beef? Some beef -- it may not be the finest piece of beef at this time but there's some, and hungry for more.

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Old Dec 15, 2008, 10:56 AM   #136
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Not only that Nvidia brought us this for free, where previously you needed a PhysX card.

And they are bringing it to games where Ageia would of have no chance of it being implemented.

So I get free features and there are games which are going to use it.

Sounds like a Win win to me.
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Old Dec 15, 2008, 11:28 AM   #137
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It's one of the biggest no-brainers in the history of GPU's to me. Free, it adds more immersion - don't have to buy an additional GPU - can use dated cards to put them to work -- more value to Sli.

What's not to like? From a consumer point-of-view? Really!

Negatives:

"Dude, don't like it -- need the frames."

Answer:

It's like an AA type feature, meaning some people will sacrifice some performance to add AA -- same here. If the feature adds immersion -- that's great. Desire more frame-rate -- turn it off. But, the idea is to improve eye-candy and inter-act more moving forward. And the true comparison to me is with CPU's.

"Dude, don't like it-- PhysX will die."

Answer: When? Open Standards haven't been defined totally and not mature yet with zero content at this time and none moving forward officially, from my understanding. A company suppose to wait - even though they have the hardware and resources to make it a reality now? Let it start first before we talk death, hehe!


"Dude, eye candy is dumb and care about game-play."

Answer:

I care about eye-candy and inter-action/game-play and hopefully PhysX will bring more game-playing experiences moving forward with eye-candy. However, who doesn't like eye-candy? And why wouldn't nVidia be behind improving Physics Game-play? Probably working their tails off to make this happen as time passes.

"Dude, nVidia sucks and that color."

Answer:

Can't add anything here except stop calling me dude, hehe!
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Old Dec 15, 2008, 12:01 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
So I get free features and there are games which are going to use it.

Sounds like a Win win to me.
I think that's what the author is saying, we want those games that use it. And yes, I agree it's a win.
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Old Dec 15, 2008, 04:05 PM   #139
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I really want to see more game-play Physics but it's not like nVidia doesn't understand this. Read his answer and is the mother of all answers from Roy Taylor.


Quote:
Theo: How do you plan to develop PhysX in the future? While AGEIA was running the show, I got the opportunity to see their future roadmap and things that they want to develop. You know, neither PhysX or Havok are complete physics engines by a mile, there is a lot of things that need to be implemented to have a very compelling and realistic physics experience. What is Nvidia doing to enhanced future implementation of PhysX? We can call if PhysX 1.5, or 2.0 or something like that…
Roy: Yes, there are two parts of the answer. First one is of course, the actual hardware. For obvious reasons, we cannot disclose what are we working on in the future GPU parts, nor we can comment on unannounced products, but you don’t need to own a crystal ball to see that we are going to implement even more PhysX-optimized units in the future. And yes, we are going to add more cores to our processors. What cores - that remains to be seen. From the hardware point of view, we are going to see greater levels of parallelism, and Physics is a massive parallel problem. From hardware standpoint, we’re going to add more hardware acceleration to solve complex parallel mathematical problem which is physics.
In terms of software problems, things are going extremely well, and we’re really satisfied with the way how PhysX is expanding. What we are going to do are two things: firstly, we’re going to enhance the implementation of effects that we already do well. This will of course, be done with our APEX - Advanced Physics EXtensions. APEX is going to be a big deal. Secondly, we’ll develop tools that will enable developers to implement PhysX more easily, and put much more physics effects into the game. What we need for that is a very strong tool-chain. We now have hundreds of engineers working on PhysX. Literally, we’re not fooling around. We have hundreds of engineers that extended Manju’s (Manju Hegde, co-founder of AGEIA) original team of engineers and the APEX Tool is another reason why we are being successful with the developers. It will put the power into artists’ hands, not limitations. By using APEX, you are able to apply physical attributes to a number of different elements. That can be vegetation, or destruction or vehicles, or whatever element or object in the game you want to apply PhysX attributes to.
The APEX itself, APEX Tool and ApPerfMon are doing wonders for tweaking the PhysX performance and that is really important for the success of Physics. We are going to have a number of announcements about the tool chain coming up in the near future. Our roadmap is built upon APEX, ApPerfMon and some other to be announced tools that are aiding in the introduction of greater physics into the existing environments.
Key to adding more physics is also further separation of Physics development are two stages: first one stage is PhysX Effects, second stage is PhysX gameplay. Let me give you couple of examples. Water in Crysis is beautiful, but you can’t splash anyone. Nor can you go to a river and scoop some water into your water-canister. You can’t pour water on anyone. In terms of weather, we have some really cool weather effects coming in STALKER: Clear Sky and Far Cry 2, but there are still some limitations. You cannot stand in the water and wash your hair, for example. You could not have the rain flood the river… you cannot have lightening strike a straw hut and catch it on fire.
So, there are some limitations that game developers are facing. What we are going to do is remove those limitations. Good example is also destruction. We have destruction in games today, but it is really rudimentary. We were all impressed with the fact that you can shoot a tree in Crysis, but you cannot take a machete and start chopping down the vegetation to clear your path. These are just some examples of physics effects that developers want to see implemented in their games.
Physics Gameplay is whole another ballgame. This requires a lot of work on developer side, so we expect that it will take time to implement. Physics Gameplay is introducing the in-game physics at a higher level, so that you can entirely change the game. For instance, if we take the game Hitman, you noticed that he never-ever changes his suit. Don’t you think that if someone is assassin, assassin should be able to change the clothes quickly and blend with the regular crowd? In physics gameplay effects, you’re going to able to change your clothes. Or, rip your clothes. Or even, put hat on. Have you ever noticed that you cannot put a hat on a character in a game? Or put a beard on… there are plenty of games where you can shoot off a hat from the head of a soldier…but you never see a soldier put that helmet back on. In physics gameplay, these dynamic changes will enable a change how characters interact with environment.
We’ll be able to destroy clothes, burn them, rip them off… getting them soiled and dirty. Also, let’s talk about racing games. There are plenty of car games on the market, and you see cars crashing into each other. For example, you’re in a racing game, and you lose a wheel. In a game, that might be the end. But in reality, or in physics gameplay, it might be that the wheel is just damaged and you can continue to drive the car in a way… or you might be able to spin the car over and over and over and still keep driving it. Or you might have some components coming off from the car.
Let’s give another example – how about, in terms of physics gameplay, that you go into the city and you can go into every building, see through every window, open every door? Imagine trying to find a sniper when the shooter can move inside the whole building… and if every single window could be opened? We might end up with a game that has no locked doors…or if the doors are locked, you have the ability to open them up, either by lock picking or just kicking them down.
These [effects] are what we call physics effects, and these were just the examples coming from the games we’re working on. And they’re just limited by your imagination.
nVidia can't be more up-front than this and it's appreciated. Taking PhysX in steps and something to look forward to.
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Old Dec 16, 2008, 10:24 AM   #140
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Cryostasis PhysX Performance Preview from FiringSquad

It's same demo (I've posted video before), but water is looking much better now)

Personally I can add, that game render engine is very poor optimized, that result in low fps. I hope english version of the game will include renovated render, developers are currently working on)

And, currently, in russian version of Cryostasis, GPU PhysX water simulation is avaible in DX10 mode only.

Add: another preview, video included
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,6...oter_reviewed/
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Old Dec 16, 2008, 11:01 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogrim View Post
Cryostasis PhysX Performance Preview from FiringSquad

It's same demo (I've posted video before), but water is looking much better now)

Personally I can add, that game render engine is very poor optimized, that result in low fps. I hope english version of the game will include renovated render, developers are currently working on)

And, currently, in russian version of Cryostasis, GPU PhysX water simulation is avaible in DX10 mode only.

Add: another preview, video included
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,6...oter_reviewed/
It's nice to see some content and some of the effects possible. The lower-end GPU PhysX discrete cards sure help based on these findings.
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Old Dec 16, 2008, 01:31 PM   #142
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Default Cryostasis Techdemo PhysX Performance

Don't know if you guys saw this (courtesy of Frag of Fury):

"In 2009 PhysX could be poised to take the next step forward as a result of these announcements, and the arrival of several new PhysX-enabled games. Mirror’s Edge is set to arrive for the PC next month. We’ve already discussed this game pretty extensively, and posted side-by-side videos of the game with and without PhysX. Another game launching early next year that we haven’t discussed in much depth is 1C’s Cryostasis."

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...o_performance/
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Old Dec 16, 2008, 03:26 PM   #143
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This GTX 295 preview article has some slides of PhysX performance:

http://en.expreview.com/2008/12/16/g...is-better.html
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Old Dec 16, 2008, 06:08 PM   #144
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http://www.legitreviews.com/article/852/1/

Here is another article on PhysX and Cryostasis.
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Old Dec 17, 2008, 11:40 AM   #145
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http://hothardware.com/News/Cryostas...id-Simulation/


A small article about PhysX in Cryostasis.
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Old Dec 17, 2008, 11:49 AM   #146
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Found a link for the download for Cryostasis but it's not on the nZone site yet -- odd:

http://nzone.download.nvidia.com/nod...isTechDemo.exe
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Old Dec 17, 2008, 12:26 PM   #147
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Seem to have found the official area of the Cryostasis download; in the Graphics Plus Power Pack area:

http://www.nvidia.com/content/graphi...s/download.asp

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Old Dec 17, 2008, 05:16 PM   #148
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New PhysX driver.

Nvidia PhysX 8.11.18 System Software.

http://files.filefront.com/PhysX+811.../fileinfo.html


.
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Old Dec 17, 2008, 07:08 PM   #149
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SIrPauly can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultySIrPauly can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultySIrPauly can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


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Thanks!

This is a poster at Sli Zone that has a GTX-280 Sli running the Crystasis Demo at 1920 x 1200:

http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?...dpost&p=253134

48.6 average with a 30 minumum.
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Old Dec 18, 2008, 06:40 AM   #150
Zogrim
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Zogrim is still being judged by the masses


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