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Old Jun 23, 2019, 11:06 AM   #871
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pax
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This geekbench windows run of a 3600 is impressive due to the sweet spot of ram used at DDR 3733 but the low core speed of 4.15 ghz:

http://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13631495


Quote:
Name AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Topology 1 Processor, 6 Cores, 12 Threads
Identifier AuthenticAMD Family 23 Model 113 Stepping 0
Base Frequency 3.60 GHz
Maximum Frequency 4.15 GHz
Package
Codename Matisse
L1 Instruction Cache 32.0 KB x 6
L1 Data Cache 32.0 KB x 6
L2 Cache 512 KB x 6
L3 Cache 16.0 MB x 2
Single-Core Performance
Single-Core Score 5716
Crypto Score 6899
Integer Score 5157
Floating Point Score 5322
Memory Score 7268
Extrapolating core speed of other ryzen 3000 cpus you get:



3600x/3700x -- 6043

3800x-- 6180

3900x-- 6318

3950x-- 6455

Compare that to a 8700k of about 5900... Looks like ryzen will win single core as well.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 11:10 PM   #872
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I'm guessing for a draw at best, amd clearly didn't brag about single core performance crown and furthermore they were actually admitting Intel cpu still win on some games benchmarks.

So I'm expecting, a draw in single core performance, a definitive amd win albeit in relatively marginal way for the multithreaded race, plus 4.5 ghz frequency wall for all core turbo/oc.

Underwhelming? Yes if Intel had stable and clear improvements since their first 14mm chips. But in reality they don't and likely not going to have new chips against amd chips until late 2020.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 11:40 PM   #873
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No I speak like AMD needs to compete if I'm going to buy anything from them. I speak like AMD needs to compete or we see 2X the price with little improvement from Intel and Nvidia because they have no competition. All the while consoles continue to gain on the PC. You guys can call me stupid all you want. You have no idea what you are talking about and deserve to wait an extra year, pay more, and get a chip that is the same level of performance as a year old Intel chip with a bunch of features you will never use in the lifetime of the chip. I got a 25% improvement over the 2700X 4 months later in a chip that delivers 8 cores and 16 threads which were already supported and will be the main focus of consoles for the next 5 years. I got the fastest clocked chip ever made at the same time. That is the difference between a fan boy and someone who buys based on facts and has an understanding of how things actually work. Have fun with PCIE 4.0 four years before it's needed. Have fun with your thread aware games that are limited to 16 threads on your 24 thread chips and have fun with your low clock speeds and lower IPC that struggles to beat a 5 year old architecture by 10% from a company that has had no reason to try for a long time and has multiple security patches slowing it down. After a year of cost cutting it still costs the same as Intel's year old chip even though you were probably complaining about Intel's pricing a year ago.


Do you even hear yourself ? You sound raging angry that AMD has the nerve not to market the fastest CPU for you...lol They don't compete ? That's like saying no car manufacturers compete because my Lamborghini is so fast... Sounds real bloody dumb. If manufacturers don't support new abilities software isn't going to come out supporting anything ????? lol, what ? I deserve to wait ? lol, i could care less whether i have the fastest chip out, i gave up on that a couple of decades ago, it's pointless.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 12:50 AM   #874
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Truthfully, it would be nice to not see stagnation in the market. We have seen that for the better part of a decade. At least AMD is making it interesting.

It would also be nice to see something new pop up every once and a while.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 02:18 AM   #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pax View Post
This geekbench windows run of a 3600 is impressive due to the sweet spot of ram used at DDR 3733 but the low core speed of 4.15 ghz:

http://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13631495




Extrapolating core speed of other ryzen 3000 cpus you get:



3600x/3700x -- 6043

3800x-- 6180

3900x-- 6318

3950x-- 6455

Compare that to a 8700k of about 5900... Looks like ryzen will win single core as well.
Should be interesting, I get 6828 with 8700k at 5GHz and memory at 3866MHz.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 05:32 AM   #876
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Originally Posted by traitoR View Post
Do you even hear yourself ? You sound raging angry that AMD has the nerve not to market the fastest CPU for you...lol They don't compete ? That's like saying no car manufacturers compete because my Lamborghini is so fast... Sounds real bloody dumb. If manufacturers don't support new abilities software isn't going to come out supporting anything ????? lol, what ? I deserve to wait ? lol, i could care less whether i have the fastest chip out, i gave up on that a couple of decades ago, it's pointless.
Of course I don't hear myself. I'm typing on a keyboard. AMD is marketing these as gaming CPU's. That's like selling a sports car with junk under the hood. It's keeping pace with a 5 year old architecture despite being brand new. Which means it's doing exactly what I said it was gonna do. Selling a server chip because they are too lazy to focus on the PC gaming market and have not cared about it since they went to console land. 95% of home owners desktops have no need for more than 4 cores and more than 8 cores is not currently useful for gaming. Slow speeds is not what gamers need.

I didn't wait a year hoping that AMD would match Intel's old stuff at the same price because it's a waste of time to do so, I spent the same money and had higher performance a year early. If you thought this was going to smash lazy old Intel I think you will be disappointed. That's all I've been saying this whole time. It's coming out late and has the same performance as Intel's 5 year old architecture. It has features that nobody will use in order to sell it at the same high prices. That's all I was saying. I didn't say that these chips will suck and that you shouldn't buy it. If you want to slurp on AMD's c0ck then have fun with that. If I'm in the market for a sports car then I expect one from a company advertising sports cars. If their best sports cars are slower than old technology from their competitors then of course I'm not going to buy it if I'm in the market for speed. CPU's are not cars and nobody cares what they look like. If they can't deliver the goods because they refuse to put in the effort then that is why progress is slow and everything is so expensive.

I'm not upset because I'm not in the market to buy. I'm simply telling it like I see it. If you are mad because I don't see the value in paying the same price for last years performance then I guess you are just going to have to deal with it. Not everyone is going to share your opinion. Oh well, I'm sure AMD's consoles will be a nice improvement over the last generation. If the PS5 was the same speed as the seven year old PS4, people would have a sh!t fit, I forgot about fanbois on the PC though. And no, I'm not saying that their new chips are slower than 5 year old chips so please don't get it twisted. I'm just saying that AMD's new architecture can't beat a 5 year old architecture and that last years Intel chips based on that 5 year old architecture is going to be faster at gaming than these brand new gaming chips from AMD.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:30 AM   #877
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Single thread performance parity or near parity with lower clockspeed and lower wattage, while offering superior multithreaded performance and/or more cores at the same price range and offering actual new technology instead of stuck on a decade old technology.

Yeah keep babbling your stupid belief about amd deliberately not competing or not beating Intel chip from 5 years ago.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 09:04 AM   #878
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Would you buy a PS5 that has similar performance to a PS4 with slower clocks speeds and new features that mean nothing? Would you say, "hey the PS5 is almost the same single threaded parity with lower clock speeds and less power draw"? As if anyone gives a sh!t. "Hey the PS5 can do workstation multithreading that nobody is going to use, isn't that cool"? "Hey the PS5 has PCI E 5.0 even though it would take 4X the power to even begin seeing a limitation in PCIE 2.0". Wouldn't you question why a PS5 costs $499 when the PS4 delivered the same performance for that same price 5 years ago? would you not expect better game performance from the PS5? Or would you blindly accept it like you are now with this new architecture because of fanboism? Have fun contributing to the stagnation of the PC market and the success of the contard market. If AMD would get out of the way and let real competition enter the scene the PC would take off and burn the console market to the ground, to AMD's dismay.

Keep wasting money on slower performance a year late to the party with features you will never use during the lifetime of the product you are purchasing. I'll pay high prices for new technology that actually outperforms the old sh!t or old technology if that's what it takes. Nobody is saying Intel is cool for making tiny little improvements but at least they are delivering better performance and guess who causes tiny improvements and 2X the costs of graphics cards from Intel and Nvidia? Yep we both know who is responsible. It's called a lack of competition. Just to spell it out, it's not competition to release a new chip that is slower than the old stuff with a bunch of buzzwords attached to the marketing. It's not competition to slop a server chip on the gaming market and say "hey it's better at multithreading" because you refuse to push PC gaming further even when you have made unbelievable profits from the console market. Too bad ATI was swallowed whole by this half a$$ed company.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 10:00 AM   #879
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Then why aren't you mad at Intel for releasing the same **** for 5 years? For withholding technological advancement like more cores and newer pcie? Hell why did you even buy your current pc anyway? Hypocrite much?

AMD went from Intel - 50% speed to performance parity in 3 years, they made it with far less resources than Intel, so which one is the worse?

As for your console thing, unlike you I'm feeling secure based on fact that pc gaming is in good shape, great even, I have zero urge to have console bashing attitude, I know that there's no need for relentless pure hardware epeen competition anymore because there's no need for that, 4K and VR gimmicks have near zero impact on my pc gaming enjoyment, pc is getting more and more console titles while retaining things that made pc gaming pc gaming before (ms is "forced" to try a new flight sim and a new age of empires titles again after so long, this alone is a major sign enough on the state of pc gaming, also Nvidia as much as driven by greed they were still in the end pushed for the biggest march toward graphical advancement since the early days of pixel shader with Ray Tracing now).

Seriously, the only threat pc as a gaming platform have today is epic store exclusivity. But fine, continue with your amd and console bashing meme mentality from the 2000s generation.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 10:09 AM   #880
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Yeah PC gaming is doing great. All of those cell phone sales on steam are really indicative of it's success. The population is growing out of control but ignore that and look at those boosted sales! All the PC devs were purchased for console products that are watered down ports but yeah lets just keep being retarded because we come from a generation of mentally retarded fools who wouldn't know quality or hard work if it cock slapped them upside the head. Like I said, have fun paying more for less and leading the PC hobby into a rut of non improvement for the last 10 years. The fact that a 5 year old CPU can keep up with AMD's new products is just plain sad and proof that you are full of sh!T.

As for me, I purchased the 9900K because games actually support 16 threads and the new consoles have been announced to be 8 core. This allowed me to double my cores and threads while still seeing a frequency boost over what I had and all the features that I paid for where already supported by the game industry. It was an all around improvement in every way. We would be way further than we are now with lower prices if there were actually competition though. Too bad you are so willing to stand up for and accept laziness and degeneracy even when it goes against your own interests. Oh well you guys don't know any better. It's not the millennial generations fault that they were raised by opioid addicted meth heads and spend thousands of dollars to watch movies on their sh!tty cell phone screens and consider PC gaming to be console game ports on their laptops while at Starbucks. Surround sound is just a filter on their cheap ass headphones. God forbid anyone actually have standards and expect an improvement in real world performance from a new $500 product.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 11:21 AM   #881
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You are going to give yourself a hearth attack keeping this up.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 11:38 AM   #882
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I write programs that run themselves so I have downtime between programs. My employer allows me to surf the net at my desk as long as my programs are running. I'm bored and getting paid right now so it's no problem. If people want to call me an idiot and stupid while standing up for BS and making terrible purchasing decisions then that is fine and their business but don't expect me not to call them out on it and take the time to back up my point of view. I said my piece and have only replied when I am directly replied to. If they want to let it go at any time then that is fine with me.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 01:19 PM   #883
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 01:55 PM   #884
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They didnt OC, maybe due to using stock cooler, but measured 20% ipc uplift stock. Id have put it under aio at least. Gaming benches are pretty good for a low clocked 6 core.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 02:28 PM   #885
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They didnt OC, maybe due to using stock cooler, but measured 20% ipc uplift stock. Id have put it under aio at least. Gaming benches are pretty good for a low clocked 6 core.
They didn't OC because it freezes when they touch the multiplier.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 03:45 PM   #886
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They didn't OC because it freezes when they touch the multiplier.

They coulda tried bclk oc. I think also the boost clock woulda been better if the cooler had been an aio.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 05:26 PM   #887
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I think I will be waiting a bit, I really have a feeling I will gain nothing at 4K going to a 3800X from a 6600K with my 1080Ti. Probably would be the same with a 2080Ti as well. Just seems like it would be a waste of $800 for not much performance gain. I probably would be better off going with a 2080Ti and gain much more performance going that route.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 05:27 PM   #888
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Compare that to a 8700k of about 5900... Looks like ryzen will win single core as well.
If they really would have won single core they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

It would have been in their keynote as well.

My guess is that they aren't going to get single core but they'll get total workload and may get the value depending on the MB pricing. That looks to be what they are advertising right now at least.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 05:30 PM   #889
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I think I will be waiting a bit, I really have a feeling I will gain nothing at 4K going to a 3800X from a 6600K with my 1080Ti. Probably would be the same with a 2080Ti as well. Just seems like it would be a waste of $800 for not much performance gain. I probably would be better off going with a 2080Ti and gain much more performance going that route.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:01 PM   #890
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I think I will be waiting a bit, I really have a feeling I will gain nothing at 4K going to a 3800X from a 6600K with my 1080Ti. Probably would be the same with a 2080Ti as well. Just seems like it would be a waste of $800 for not much performance gain. I probably would be better off going with a 2080Ti and gain much more performance going that route.
You will gain massive efficiency and multitasking capability, 6600k is what... A 4c4t cpu, that's frankly terrible for modern multithreaded games and apps, I bet your cpu is pushed to the max on some games and possibly bottlenecking your 1080ti even on 4K.

Going to 8c16t on equivalent if not slightly better ipc cpu will allow you to do much more like gaming while still having more apps running in background and still nowhere maxing your cpu resources, you may game with colder and more silent cpu.

Gaming with mods is also something that is usually overlooked, on many mod heavy games like skyrim or cities skylines that on this day are enjoyed with dozens of mods, people need to realize that such games also requires extra cpu resources not just extra ram and extra storage, after all how's the game supposed to handle all these mods? While there's no dependable public benchmark on this scenario, I think 4c4t cpu is too limited for such games on this day,

Just my 2 cents, in the end that's up to you.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:14 PM   #891
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
I think I will be waiting a bit, I really have a feeling I will gain nothing at 4K going to a 3800X from a 6600K with my 1080Ti. Probably would be the same with a 2080Ti as well. Just seems like it would be a waste of $800 for not much performance gain. I probably would be better off going with a 2080Ti and gain much more performance going that route.


2080ti

tests show very well how the extra cores help in the most modern titles. especially on the 1% lows. and this is with the 7600k having better IPC on single core by a large degree, so one can imagine what it would look like if that was say tied.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:25 PM   #892
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Originally Posted by Shapeshifter View Post


2080ti

tests show very well how the extra cores help in the most modern titles. especially on the 1% lows. and this is with the 7600k having better IPC on single core by a large degree, so one can imagine what it would look like if that was say tied.
They are not showing 4k, I only care about 4K now. From what I have read as of recent there is almost no difference in performance going from the 2500K to the 7700K gaming in 4K. Above that they didn't have tests.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:36 PM   #893
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Originally Posted by Napoleonic View Post
You will gain massive efficiency and multitasking capability, 6600k is what... A 4c4t cpu, that's frankly terrible for modern multithreaded games and apps, I bet your cpu is pushed to the max on some games and possibly bottlenecking your 1080ti even on 4K.

Going to 8c16t on equivalent if not slightly better ipc cpu will allow you to do much more like gaming while still having more apps running in background and still nowhere maxing your cpu resources, you may game with colder and more silent cpu.

Gaming with mods is also something that is usually overlooked, on many mod heavy games like skyrim or cities skylines that on this day are enjoyed with dozens of mods, people need to realize that such games also requires extra cpu resources not just extra ram and extra storage, after all how's the game supposed to handle all these mods? While there's no dependable public benchmark on this scenario, I think 4c4t cpu is too limited for such games on this day,

Just my 2 cents, in the end that's up to you.
Yes it would be better for stuff out of gaming which I dont do at home, Keep in mind that the only way I game is in 4K these days, I cant find the page which I read this but they benched processors from the 2500K to the 7700K and there was virtually no difference in performance at 4K.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 08:56 PM   #894
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At 4K you're going to be very heavily GPU limited, so for the most part you're right you're not going to see much of an improvement. I'd say the only people who need to be particularly concerned with a having the absolute fastest processor for gaming are those running 1080P/1440P at 144 Hz+.

I don't see why your upgrade has to be $800 though. I feel like there's some really weird thing going around here where people price out the absolute most expensive components and then claim the upgrade isn't cost effective. For example, instead of paying $300 for an overpriced motherboard, and $500 for a 3800X, you could instead buy a used X370 Crosshair VI Hero on Ebay for $100 (which although two years old is still a damn solid board), and then add a R5 3600 for $200 (presumably you already have memory, and you may also have a cooler you could reuse).

I'm not saying that you should do that either, I'm just pointing out that there are other options besides top-of-the-line-everything which would still be a step up from what you currently have. In addition, you can resell your current processor/board to recover at least some of that money.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 09:41 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
Yes it would be better for stuff out of gaming which I dont do at home, Keep in mind that the only way I game is in 4K these days, I cant find the page which I read this but they benched processors from the 2500K to the 7700K and there was virtually no difference in performance at 4K.
Well I think hardware reviewer benchmarks are too limited for the daily pc use case especially for such resources limited cpu in an age where every apps eat more and more cpu resources.

Basically my question is, do you literally just playing games with that pc? Do you do it in such ways that you have no other apps whatsoever running in background? If so then I can see why you aren't enticed with more resourceful cpu.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 10:53 PM   #896
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I don't see why your upgrade has to be $800 though. I feel like there's some really weird thing going around here where people price out the absolute most expensive components and then claim the upgrade isn't cost effective. For example, instead of paying $300 for an overpriced motherboard, and $500 for a 3800X, you could instead buy a used X370 Crosshair VI Hero on Ebay for $100 (which although two years old is still a damn solid board), and then add a R5 3600 for $200 (presumably you already have memory, and you may also have a cooler you could reuse).

I'm not saying that you should do that either, I'm just pointing out that there are other options besides top-of-the-line-everything which would still be a step up from what you currently have. In addition, you can resell your current processor/board to recover at least some of that money.
Because the way a whole lot of people upgrade they go for the high end knowing that it is less trouble and more time between upgrades. If they upgraded motherboards to the x570 stuff then the thought process is that board will have increased development and BIOS updates. Where as the x370 will get a compatibility bios update and nothing much after that because it is a 2 year old board.

Technically, yeah, people can buy old ass boards and use them but the reality is that they wont. So the high end costs are going to be what the majority of intel users are going to be looking at for breaking into AMD.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 11:06 PM   #897
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
Yes it would be better for stuff out of gaming which I dont do at home, Keep in mind that the only way I game is in 4K these days, I cant find the page which I read this but they benched processors from the 2500K to the 7700K and there was virtually no difference in performance at 4K.
You need a new GPU first. That old CPU might pull it off, but if I'm you I buy a 2080Ti before I upgrade anything else.

That said, I suggest waiting for the super cards to see what happens with the prices first.

Edit: Ultra wide > 4K IMO.

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Old Jun 24, 2019, 11:14 PM   #898
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https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/x590-ch...med-ryzen-3000

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Today’s top semiconductor companies utilise the same or similar naming schema. It’s no accident, either. Your rival has a B250 chipset, you create a B350 chipset – and so on and so forth. Each company vying to have the last laugh that’ll likely never come. As such, it came as no surprise to anyone that a potential X590 chipset was on its way, a high-end motherboard set to match Intel’s Z390 on desktop.

Yet according to Gamers Nexus, speaking with motherboard manufacturers, the X590 chipset was cut before it ever got the chance to stick it to Intel. The chipset was intended to be the top in the stack, and the first with PCIe 4.0 connectivity, with X570 offering cheaper, PCIe 3.0 connectivity. However, this would not come to pass, and AMD would instead shift X570 into the limelight and lop X590 off the top.
So... No x590....
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 12:32 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by andino View Post
If they really would have won single core they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

It would have been in their keynote as well.

My guess is that they aren't going to get single core but they'll get total workload and may get the value depending on the MB pricing. That looks to be what they are advertising right now at least.


if AMD walked across your swimming pool you would bitch about the footprints



My guess is

1-AMD isn't known for leaks or telling everything at the first keynote, they will save something big for the 7th and the full reviews

2- two weeks out on a new whole new type of chip and a new chipset they are still tuning drivers and it will get faster
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Old Jun 25, 2019, 01:25 AM   #900
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if AMD walked across your swimming pool you would bitch about the footprints
If AMD were to come out with good chips at decent prices and told the MB manufacturers to hold prices under Intels then I wouldn't have complained.

Instead, they told MB manufacturers, "Hey Charles, lets push to marketing to the higher [end]. So let's sell higher-pricing motherboards, higher-spec motherboards, and let's see what will happen in the market. So I don't think that AMD is the company that wants to sell low cost here, low cost there."

So now AMD and the rest of us get the fun of having higher priced MB's and higher priced chips.

That was my complaint.
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