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Old May 26, 2019, 03:39 PM   #91
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LordHawkwind
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
because no one will pay more for it than a 2950X at 799 or even as much as the top TR .
most that really need 16c/32t will want 4 channel memory .

better to sell millions of chips and only make 100 a pop profit than make 400 a pop profit and only sell thousands

RTX prices hurt NV sales badly


……..
and we don't know their costs on these .

they will make a profit I'm sure and not "hemorrhage cash"

but they may be able to do that at 499 to 699 for a 16c/32t

and they know a lot of people like KAC will need a lot of incentive to drop intel
Bill do the math. Sell 1m at $100 profit = $100m. Sell 300K at $400 profit = $120m. Second company has 33% market share but makes $20m more. Not rocket science really. Plus company B will have a bigger R&D budget so is always ahead of company A basically seals the deal. Simples.

Taking your point about 16c/32t needing 4 channel memory who wants to buy a 16c/32t with dual channel? Is there a latent market there just waiting for this chip or are people just going to buy the CPU that meets their needs like a 6/8c. I'm never going to buy one TBH and I bet >95% of the market aren't interested so they're not going to sell millions..
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Old May 26, 2019, 04:10 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Are you perchance mocking me my good fellows. Wouldn't buy a puny 6 core for $99. Seriously think about this. Why would AMD sell a $99 CPU that's as fast as a CPU they're still selling for $280? They might as well just throw the channel inventory in the bin.

Also remember the 12 and 16 core cpu's are replacing threadripper so you'd expect AMD to price at that level. The leaked prices for Navi mid-range are $399 and $499 so AMD aren't being stupid in GPU's so why would they price so low in CPU's? Makes no commercial sense. The hype train is on full throttle.
So you expect AMD to sell their value chip at 2700X prices because they have made a great CPU this time around? Either that or you think they should disable their low end part to screw the consumer? Tech continues to improve. its the way of the world, This could be a sandy bridge moment for AMD without the VD attached. Lets hope it is as Intel hasn't done crap since that chip about 8 years ago now.

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Old May 26, 2019, 05:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Bill do the math. Sell 1m at $100 profit = $100m. Sell 300K at $400 profit = $120m. Second company has 33% market share but makes $20m more. Not rocket science really. Plus company B will have a bigger R&D budget so is always ahead of company A basically seals the deal. Simples.

Taking your point about 16c/32t needing 4 channel memory who wants to buy a 16c/32t with dual channel? Is there a latent market there just waiting for this chip or are people just going to buy the CPU that meets their needs like a 6/8c. I'm never going to buy one TBH and I bet >95% of the market aren't interested so they're not going to sell millions..


at 950 they won't sell 5k when the 2950x is 799


I've been in business for 35+ years and never had to advertise by now screwing my customers over
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Old May 26, 2019, 06:19 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Nascar24 View Post
So you expect AMD to sell their value chip at 2700X prices because they have made a great CPU this time around? Either that or you think they should disable their low end part to screw the consumer? Tech continues to improve. its the way of the world, This could be a sandy bridge moment for AMD without the VD attached. Lets hope it is as Intel hasn't done crap since that chip about 8 years ago now.
So sell your new $99 chip for a third of the price of your old high end chip? Were does that end? Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Screw the consumer of course both AMD and Nvidia would do without blinking an eye. They are both owned by shareholders who want a very good return on their money. They're not charities selling to consumers at low prices because they like them FFS wake up and smell the coffee they're both in it to maximize profits so why can't you get that.
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Old May 26, 2019, 06:24 PM   #95
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at 950 they won't sell 5k when the 2950x is 799


I've been in business for 35+ years and never had to advertise by now screwing my customers over
Bill TBH I don't know the prices of TR I just used $950 as a metaphor. In your analogy they would sell Zen 2 for $750 not $499 so do you see where I'm coming from?
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Old May 26, 2019, 07:10 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
So sell your new $99 chip for a third of the price of your old high end chip? Were does that end? Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Screw the consumer of course both AMD and Nvidia would do without blinking an eye. They are both owned by shareholders who want a very good return on their money. They're not charities selling to consumers at low prices because they like them FFS wake up and smell the coffee they're both in it to maximize profits so why can't you get that.
I'm not even talking about profits, I'm talking about advancements, And yes they do this to make money. So people keep coming back and buying the next greatest CPU. Not sure why you dont understand this. Its the way of the world, Nothing to wake up to. If they advanced the low end CPU that much all the better for us! Well maybe not you who just bought their last gen.
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Old May 26, 2019, 08:50 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
So sell your new $99 chip for a third of the price of your old high end chip? Were does that end? Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Screw the consumer of course both AMD and Nvidia would do without blinking an eye. They are both owned by shareholders who want a very good return on their money. They're not charities selling to consumers at low prices because they like them FFS wake up and smell the coffee they're both in it to maximize profits so why can't you get that.
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Old May 26, 2019, 09:08 PM   #98
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What's the 3800X boost? At this point it looks like the one I will probably go for.
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Old May 26, 2019, 09:27 PM   #99
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AMD livestream from Computex:


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Old May 26, 2019, 10:56 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
So sell your new $99 chip for a third of the price of your old high end chip? Were does that end? Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Screw the consumer of course both AMD and Nvidia would do without blinking an eye. They are both owned by shareholders who want a very good return on their money. They're not charities selling to consumers at low prices because they like them FFS wake up and smell the coffee they're both in it to maximize profits so why can't you get that.
final prices not near as bad as your doom and gloom



8 core 3700x same starting price as the 2700x but faster
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Old May 26, 2019, 11:07 PM   #101
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well Nvidia's won't be a RX 3080 in a few days and any possible RTX 3080 will be about a year from now



and wouldn't AMD already have trademarked RX 3080 as they said so over 6 months ago

and why did NV file in the EU ?

maybe AMD filed in the USA already
What AMD would likely have done is file an 'intent to use' trademark application. That gets your trademark on the record earlier but you don't actually have to have a product yet. Then if the mark gets allowed (nobody else had 3080 registered or had an application in progress), AMD would have 6 months to show they were actually selling a product. You can extend that a few times as well but you need to show good cause. Something like ongoing research and development might work.

But you can't get too far ahead of yourself. If you file early too early to squat on a mark and don't ever get a product out then you could lose out on the mark. So you have to have some idea that you're close to releasing your product before you file.

As for why NV would file in EU, I'm not sure. Usually there are reciprocal agreements between countries. So if you have a mark in the US first, then you can file in the EU later on and rely on your earlier filing date in the US to knock other people out.

So, usually, if AMD files in the US on Day 1, and NV files in the EU on Day 2, then on Day 3 AMD files in the EU, AMD could say they have rights to the mark in the EU based on their US filing on Day 1.
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Old May 26, 2019, 11:38 PM   #102
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What AMD would likely have done is file an 'intent to use' trademark application. That gets your trademark on the record earlier but you don't actually have to have a product yet. Then if the mark gets allowed (nobody else had 3080 registered or had an application in progress), AMD would have 6 months to show they were actually selling a product. You can extend that a few times as well but you need to show good cause. Something like ongoing research and development might work.

But you can't get too far ahead of yourself. If you file early too early to squat on a mark and don't ever get a product out then you could lose out on the mark. So you have to have some idea that you're close to releasing your product before you file.

As for why NV would file in EU, I'm not sure. Usually there are reciprocal agreements between countries. So if you have a mark in the US first, then you can file in the EU later on and rely on your earlier filing date in the US to knock other people out.

So, usually, if AMD files in the US on Day 1, and NV files in the EU on Day 2, then on Day 3 AMD files in the EU, AMD could say they have rights to the mark in the EU based on their US filing on Day 1.
looks lie they are going back to 5700
i had a nice 5790
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Old May 26, 2019, 11:48 PM   #103
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https://www.anandtech.com/show/14412...-improved-perf

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Altogether, a Navi core/CU should be 25% faster than a Vega core on a clock-for-clock basis. The devil is in the details of course – AMD's data is based off of their internal testing, taking the geomean of 30 games tested at 3840x2160 with Ultra settings and 4x AA,
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Old May 27, 2019, 12:08 AM   #104
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25% better performance per clock per core and 50% better power efficiency than AMD’s current-generation Vega architecture
isn't that faster than a 2080 non ti ?
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Old May 27, 2019, 04:33 AM   #105
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About mid 2070 to 2080 performance I would have thought [?].
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Old May 27, 2019, 01:57 PM   #106
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anyone seen anything on navi and HDMI 2.1 ?
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Old May 27, 2019, 06:05 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
well Nvidia's won't be a RX 3080 in a few days and any possible RTX 3080 will be about a year from now



and wouldn't AMD already have trademarked RX 3080 as they said so over 6 months ago

and why did NV file in the EU ?

maybe AMD filed in the USA already
You can't trademark numbers; that's why Intel developed the Pentium brand name vs. calling it 586.
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Old May 28, 2019, 12:29 PM   #108
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Quote:
ASRock Shows Off Concept AMD Radeon RX 5000 Navi Graphics Card Designs – Two Variants In The Works, a 180W & 150W SKU
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5...riants-report/




180W & 150W SKU

with two 8 pin power plugs

could just be vega's as a Concept card

but that is a lot of cooling for a 180w card


maybe it is faster then they are saying now

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Old May 28, 2019, 01:03 PM   #109
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Could be there is another variant not yet revealed that they are saving for E3
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Old May 28, 2019, 04:07 PM   #110
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Or maybe it's just a power hungry POS like Vega and Radeon VII, AMD certainly have history there. Lots of chatter on the interweb that Navi isn't "new" arch but just a refined GCN. Next gen has been on AMD's road map for a long time and suddenly Navi is "new arch". We'll see shortly but $500 for a mid-range card count me out thanks.
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Old May 28, 2019, 04:36 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5...riants-report/




180W & 150W SKU

with two 8 pin power plugs

could just be vega's as a Concept card

but that is a lot of cooling for a 180w card


maybe it is faster then they are saying now
Has ASRock actually said these are Navi? All the signage I’ve seen in pictures just say they are concepts and everyone just assumed that meant Navi. Maybe these are Radeon VII cards because they sure as hell don’t look mid range in any way to me. Besides it seems totally bonkers that AMD would not show any cards in the official presentation and yet be okay with a partner showing them off on the floor
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Old May 28, 2019, 08:14 PM   #112
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Has ASRock actually said these are Navi? All the signage I’ve seen in pictures just say they are concepts and everyone just assumed that meant Navi. Maybe these are Radeon VII cards because they sure as hell don’t look mid range in any way to me. Besides it seems totally bonkers that AMD would not show any cards in the official presentation and yet be okay with a partner showing them off on the floor
well they got to be out there if they are coming out july 7 that's only about 6 weeks

and they are all showing the motherboards releasing the same day


………………………………

Quote:
Factory overclocked AMD Navi GPUs will launch over a month after reference cards


https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/navi-av...-cards-coolers


so it will be August+ before the after market cards hit


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Old May 29, 2019, 10:17 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by aRandomRobot View Post
Has ASRock actually said these are Navi? All the signage I’ve seen in pictures just say they are concepts and everyone just assumed that meant Navi. Maybe these are Radeon VII cards because they sure as hell don’t look mid range in any way to me. Besides it seems totally bonkers that AMD would not show any cards in the official presentation and yet be okay with a partner showing them off on the floor
The AIB’s never made any after market VII’s so it’s definitely not one of those. Will be interesting to find out why a mid-range card needs a three fan cooler though and take up more than 2.5 slots. Although these are not actual cards it would seem rather pointless at this stage to show something which is totally different to the end product.
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Old Jun 4, 2019, 01:54 AM   #114
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Quote:
AMD Announces the Radeon Pro Vega II and Pro Vega II Duo Graphics Cards
Quote:
AMD today announced the Radeon Pro Vega II and Pro Vega II Duo graphics cards, making their debut with the new Apple Mac Pro workstation




MCM getting closer ?

https://www.techpowerup.com/256234/a...graphics-cards
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 12:27 AM   #115
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Multiple AMD Navi GPUs may be on the way, according to certification
Quote:
We already knew that AMD Navi is real, as it's been revealed at Computex 2019. However, only one Navi GPU, the AMD Radeon RX 5700 series, was shown at the event. This certification, spotted by South Korean site Hardware Battle, hints that there will be up to five.

This shouldn't be too surprising, as AMD graphics cards rarely come out as single products – barring the AMD Radeon VII, of course. So, next week at E3 2019, we might end up seeing a full lineup of AMD Navi GPUs, rather than a single product. At the very least, we expect to see two.
https://www.techradar.com/news/multi...-certification
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 11:49 AM   #116
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Polaris had a lot of skus. Probably stuff that ranges way low in the product stack. 580, 570, 4 and 8 gb, 560,... They had weird models for the chinese market as well I think a 580 4gb. Im interested in the top end navi 20 which is supposed to be full RDNA vs what is said to be a mixed GCN/RDNA tech in this years navi outings.
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Old Jun 9, 2019, 08:43 AM   #117
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https://videocardz.com/80966/amd-rad...d-specs-leaked

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Specs

Quote:
Radeon RX 5700 XT
AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Specs

We have received, what appears to be, a slide from tomorrow’s official announcement of Radeon RX 5700 series.

AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT features 40 Compute Units (2560 stream processors). The Navi GPU is clocked at 1605 MHz in base mode, 1755 MHz in Game Mode and 1905 MHz in boost mode. Of course, the new addition here is the Game Clock.

The card is confirmed to feature 8GB of GDDR6 memory.

The memory bus width, memory clock, pricing, and availability date were not available at the time of writing. We assume there are more cards to be shown tomorrow, we will update this post or create a new one if that’s the case.
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Old Jun 9, 2019, 09:41 PM   #118
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Some say that one is a navi 12. And priced at 499$ which is a bit steep imo. Perf is said to be better than expected tho...



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Old Jun 10, 2019, 11:05 AM   #119
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Old Jun 10, 2019, 02:58 PM   #120
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Final specs of the 5700...

https://videocardz.com/81012/amd-rad...dzoZQak3ij99DE


Quote:
AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT Specifications
Radeon RX 5700 XT Radeon RX 5700 Radeon RX 590
GPU 7nm FF Navi 7nm FF Navi 12nm FF Polaris 30
Stream Processors
2560
2304
2304
TMUs
256
256
144
ROPs
64
64
32
Max FP32 Compute
9.75 TFLOPS
7.95 TFLOPS
7.12 TFLOPS
Base Clock
1605 MHz
1465 MHz
1469 MHz
Game Clock
1755 MHz
1625 MHz
N/A
Boost Clock
1905 MHz
1725 MHz
1545 MHz
Memory
8 GB GDDR6
8 GB GDDR6
8 GB GDDR5
Memory Bus
256-bit
256-bit
256-bit
Memory Clock
14 Gbps
14 Gbps
8 Gbps
TBP
225W
180W
Quote:
Radeon Multimedia Engine – Seamless Streaming

Improved Encoding (New HDR/WCG Encode HEVC)
8K Encode (HEVC & VP)
40% encoder speedups
Navi Stats

40 RDNA Compute Units
80 Scalar Proessors
2560 Stream Processors
160 64b bilinear filter units
Multilevel Cache
4MB L2, 512Kb L1
2x V$L0 Load Bandwidth
DCC Everywhere
Streamlined Graphics Engine
Geometry Engine (4 Prisms Shader Out, 8 Prim Shader In)
64 Pixel Units
4 Asynchronous Compute Enginers
Balanced Work Distirbution & Redistribution
Designed for higiher frequences at lower power
New Compute Unit Design
Great Compute Efficiency For Diverse Workloads

2x Instruction Rate (enabed by 2x Scalar Units and 2x Schedulers)
Single Cycle Issue (enabled by Executing Wwave32 on SIMD32)
Dual Mode Execution (Wave 32 and Wave 64 Modes Adapt for Workloads)
Resource Pooling (2 CUs Coordiate as a Work Group Processor)
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