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Old Jun 12, 2013, 08:34 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Because, right now, you can't count on it being there which means any design for games (beyond the party games) will basically bolt the support on for it to tick a box.

Once you can rely on a piece of technology being there you can start to plan around using it more effectively with deeper integration into the game play experiance.

^^^
what he said.

Bolt on peripherals never do well. Standard kit does.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 09:10 AM   #182
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has the box been posted yet?

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Old Jun 12, 2013, 09:59 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Because, right now, you can't count on it being there which means any design for games (beyond the party games) will basically bolt the support on for it to tick a box.

Once you can rely on a piece of technology being there you can start to plan around using it more effectively with deeper integration into the game play experiance.
Hmmm, not sure I would agree that suddenly it means devs are going to see and do something with kinect they haven't even bothered to try before......

I mean, so far not even one dev has made use of it in any ground breaking way, if everything was done with it just to "tick a box" before, yet if it's included in the box then it's now a total game changer?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:01 AM   #184
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has the box been posted yet?
I do like the style of the PS4, it's not just a VCR shaped box
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:18 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by bobvodka View Post
Because, right now, you can't count on it being there which means any design for games (beyond the party games) will basically bolt the support on for it to tick a box.

Once you can rely on a piece of technology being there you can start to plan around using it more effectively with deeper integration into the game play experiance.
I look at it this way...

When accelerators in controllers became standard, lots of developers came up with all sorts of ways of adding waggling into normal games. I don't like having to switch between gamepad and waggling. I think that shoving Kinect or eye toy functions into normal games will have the same problem. That makes me happy that developers on PS4 won't be able to rely on me having an eye toy. That way they won't be inclined to put eyetoy stuff into normal games.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:35 AM   #186
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Hmmm, not sure I would agree that suddenly it means devs are going to see and do something with kinect they haven't even bothered to try before......

I mean, so far not even one dev has made use of it in any ground breaking way, if everything was done with it just to "tick a box" before, yet if it's included in the box then it's now a total game changer?
That was my point; you won't design something ground breaking into your game when 90% of your target audience don't have the bit of kit you are targeting - why do you think GPU powered PhysX remains a niche feature in games which adds a few pretty effects? Same idea; not everyone has an NV card so building your game around it is silly.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:44 AM   #187
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I think that shoving Kinect or eye toy functions into normal games will have the same problem.
A conclusion you have come to based on the 'bolt on' nature of things as we currently have them - you don't know for sure, hell you can't know for sure, how things might or might not work if the kit is standard.

For some games it could be a great addition; for others a large bundle of tacked on rubbish.

The thing is I dare say most inventions have the same issue - those who are used to one way of doing things see no merit in the new way and thus will dismiss it out of hand until the new way is shown to bring value to things.

As to if it'll work or not, well, time will tell...
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:45 AM   #188
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Hmmm, not sure I would agree that suddenly it means devs are going to see and do something with kinect they haven't even bothered to try before......

I mean, so far not even one dev has made use of it in any ground breaking way, if everything was done with it just to "tick a box" before, yet if it's included in the box then it's now a total game changer?
We are talking Kinect 1 vs Kinect 2. There are several reasons why what devs did and didn't do with 1 won't necessarily have a bearing on 2.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 10:56 AM   #189
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This is the PS4 thread, right?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:27 AM   #190
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Flawed reasoning, design something groundbreaking to shift units, not the other way round guys

And this is meant to be a PS4 discussion, so, where and what is happening with Dragon's Dogma 2?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:39 AM   #191
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^^^
what he said.

Bolt on peripherals never do well. Standard kit does.
WiiU says hi. Nintendo themselves aren't even using the integrated tablet.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:41 AM   #192
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size compare

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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:50 AM   #193
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That was my point; you won't design something ground breaking into your game when 90% of your target audience don't have the bit of kit you are targeting - why do you think GPU powered PhysX remains a niche feature in games which adds a few pretty effects? Same idea; not everyone has an NV card so building your game around it is silly.
Can you say what instruction sets today's games support?

Is it likely we'll see games supporting AVX now on the PC, since the consoles have support for that?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:55 AM   #194
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Did they really manage to make it that small (PS4)? Also that XBONE is going to use a ton of space, that doesn't even include the Kinect bar.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:55 AM   #195
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If that size compare is correct, PS4 looks nicely compact
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:57 AM   #196
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Did they really manage to make it that small (PS4)? Also that XBONE is going to use a ton of space, that doesn't even include the Kinect bar.
Part of the design choice was to have it fit in with the rest of your rack equipment (receiver etc). I don't mind the size at all, but am in awe of how small Sony was able to make the PS4.

edit: gotta keep in mind that the image doesn't show depth. Here's a comparison page:



edit2: updated picture, since the copy I had was snipped.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:57 AM   #197
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It looked way bigger than that on stage, and the Xbox One looks smaller than I thought... not sure how accurate that comparison is.

Edit after Lupine's pic: Ah Ok - so the original pic is way off - yes the PS4 is 'skinnier' by just over an inch, but the footprint is about the same as the Xbox One - according to those specs it's actually taller than the Xbox One. And the Xbox One is a lot smaller than I thought too - not that much different to the size of the Original PS3 really... what's the red star by the Xbox One denoting though?

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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:06 PM   #198
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Wow, PS4 is smaller than the lot! Great engineering
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:12 PM   #199
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Wow, PS4 is smaller than the lot! Great engineering
No it's not - what numbers are you looking at? Thinner yes - smaller no...
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:13 PM   #200
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don't forget the power supply is inside the Ps4 as well.

not sure about the xbox one, but I think it's using a power brick like the x360.

which makes the size of the Ps4 even more impressive, espically if you consider how much smaller it could be if they went the power brick route as well.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:14 PM   #201
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Are we really going to argue size when its only a couple inches difference?

This really has become a penis measuring contest.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:16 PM   #202
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Are we really going to argue size when its only a couple inches difference?

This really has become a penis measuring contest.
Well, as PS4 have proven, it is not about the size, it is about how you use it.

It is worth mentioning that Sony is a Japanese company.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:18 PM   #203
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what's the red star by the Xbox One denoting though?
Updated the image w/ the original, and sourced it. The star means the xbone's dimensions are extrapolated. Anyone find published verified dimension specs?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:20 PM   #204
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don't forget the power supply is inside the Ps4 as well.

not sure about the xbox one, but I think it's using a power brick like the x360.

which makes the size of the Ps4 even more impressive, espically if you consider how much smaller it could be if they went the power brick route as well.
Good point...are we certain of this though, I haven't actually seen it specified anywhere

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Are we really going to argue size when its only a couple inches difference?

This really has become a penis measuring contest.
Not at all, but many people are exclaiming how HUGE the Xbox One is, when it obviously isn't that much bigger than current gen, or the PS4 really.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:26 PM   #205
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No it's not - what numbers are you looking at? Thinner yes - smaller no...
Using my eyes and the measurements, overall size is smaller, simple, OK?

Xbox One = 449
PS4 = 259

Cubic inches.....
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:31 PM   #206
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Using my eyes and the measurements, overall size is smaller, simple, OK?

Xbox One = 449
PS4 = 259

Cubic inches.....
Not be nit picky, but I will - you said smaller than the lot, which it isn't the Xbox Slim is the smallest overall by cubic inches
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:34 PM   #207
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Not be nit picky, but I will - you said smaller than the lot, which it isn't the Xbox Slim is the smallest overall by cubic inches
Hmm, not to do something, but I will, classic

Still, significantly smaller than the Xbox One, if the measurements are accurate
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:37 PM   #208
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Wonder how quiet the PS4 is going to be.. ? any word on fan size?
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:38 PM   #209
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Hmm, not to do something, but I will, classic

Still, significantly smaller than the Xbox One, if the measurements are accurate
Agreed, and impressive that they fit it all in that little case, wonder why the Xbox One has to be as bulky as it is - surely the HDMI passthrough doesn't take up that much room - why else would it be? For improved air circulation maybe to avoid overheating like the original 360?

Quote:
Wonder how quiet the PS4 is going to be.. ? any word on fan size?
Yeh good point, the Xbox One was being touted as 'near' silent, be interesting to find out, maybe that is why the Xbox One is on the heftier side.
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Old Jun 12, 2013, 12:38 PM   #210
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Wonder how quiet the PS4 is going to be.. ? any word on fan size?
Good call, guess will be a while for those numbers
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