When will Fermi show up (to buy)

[Anth Seebel]

Originally Posted by pahncrd

I believe you can get your points across without being inflammatory. Please keep it civil so we can avoid unpleasantness.

get real , get consistent..

[icecold1983]

Originally Posted by razor1

well Ice I suggest you ask around about those timelines and other stuff I stated, because they are all true.

i dont need to ask around, virtually every prediction u make is so ridiculously far from what actually happens. its obvious u dont have any idea at all about whats going to happen in the future.

"gt200 will be 50% faster than 9800 gx2"

[icecold1983]

Originally Posted by ChrisRay

A serious question out of all of this. Its been bothering me for a while.

"What Qualifies as an insider these days?"

Do there sources have to be accountable? Do they have to be consistently right? Do they have to be right half the time? I mean how do we quantify this these days?

its a rly grey area, but people i consider to have actual info would be you, cj etc.

[erek]

Originally Posted by icecold1983

its a rly grey area, but people i consider to have actual info would be you, cj etc.

what about moi? huh

[icecold1983]

Originally Posted by erek

what about moi? huh

i dont know who you are. but its entirely possible you do

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

Riggghhhhttt. Like you said R600 was not 512bit, and that Crytek had boards in nov 2006.
Wrong on both accounts by the way.
You know what you do? You grab a shotgun and shoot fish in the barrel. Stfu already.

Keep it civil... There is no reason for him to stfu just because you disagree with him.

[Skynet]

Why do all of these threads always turn nasty and personal? We are all the same peas in a different pod, er, or something like that.

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by Anth Seebel

get real , get consistent..

I'm not going to argue with you. If you have a problem with another post then by all means report it.

[ChrisRay]

Originally Posted by Skynet

Why do all of these threads always turn nasty and personal? We are all the same peas in a different pod, er, or something like that.

I don't know about you. But I thought this thread was flame bait destined from the start.

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by Skynet

Why do all of these threads always turn nasty and personal? We are all the same peas in a different pod, er, or something like that.

I suppose it has something to do with the human drive to be on a team and attack people not on that team.

Basically though, we are all on the same team since we are gamers looking for a great experience and great hardware. It is pretty easy to forget that in all of the hardware launch fervor.

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by ChrisRay

I don't know about you. But I thought this thread was flame bait destined from the start.

It is fine to have spirited debates so long as things don't get overly personal or insulting. It is often quite enjoyable to argue with competent and respectful individuals with alternate viewpoints. Unfortunately, emotions can run pretty.

[erek]

Originally Posted by pahncrd

I suppose it has something to do with the human drive to be on a team and attack people not on that team.

Basically though, we are all on the same team since we are gamers looking for a great experience and great hardware. It is pretty easy to forget that in all of the hardware launch fervor.

is that experience being visually hindered by the image quality of the monitors still? have LCDs been able to surpass flatscreen CRTs in color reproduction, refresh rate, and actual number of colors?

i know for a fact that my LCD panel is 6-bit dithered to 8-bit, which is quite unfortunate. which makes me wonder why people worry about the gaming experience if their monitor is limiting



solid state cathode rays might be the answer... (since they were able to make solid state transistors (tube transistors):
http://www.fizyka.umk.pl/~jkob/physnews/node105.html

...unlike other candidate flat-panel luminescent displays, possesses all of these important features: it consumes little power, is silicon-based, produces a sharp picture, is scalable to large areas, responds quickly, and is cheap because of its simple design. (Nakajima et al., Applied Physics Letters, 23 Sept; contact Nobuyoshi Koshida, 81-042-388-7128, koshida@cc.tuat.ac.jp; experimenter's website, www.tuat.ac.jp/ koslab.)

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by erek

is that experience being visually hindered by the image quality of the monitors still? have LCDs been able to surpass flatscreen CRTs in color reproduction, refresh rate, and actual number of colors?

i know for a fact that my LCD panel is 6-bit dithered to 8-bit, which is quite unfortunate. which makes me wonder why people worry about the gaming experience if their monitor is limiting



solid state cathode rays might be the answer... (since they were able to make solid state transistors (tube transistors):
http://www.fizyka.umk.pl/~jkob/physnews/node105.html

...unlike other candidate flat-panel luminescent displays, possesses all of these important features: it consumes little power, is silicon-based, produces a sharp picture, is scalable to large areas, responds quickly, and is cheap because of its simple design. (Nakajima et al., Applied Physics Letters, 23 Sept; contact Nobuyoshi Koshida, 81-042-388-7128, koshida@cc.tuat.ac.jp; experimenter's website, www.tuat.ac.jp/ koslab.)

That's pretty off topic, but interesting none the less and probably worthy of its own thread if you care to create one. 10 and 12 bit monitors are pretty common anymore afaik.

[erek]

Originally Posted by pahncrd

That's pretty off topic, but interesting none the less and probably worthy of its own thread if you care to create one. 10 and 12 bit monitors are pretty common anymore afaik.

as far as i know LCDs haven't reached much less surpassed Flatscreen CRTs, but SXRDs (liquid crystal on silicon) are kind of close... (very expensive)


anyways what my message brings up is the negligibility and triviality of bickering over these individual specifications when the average experience is far from able to appreciate the details being debated.

[Skynet]

Fact: Fermi will turn a 6 bit panel into a 128 bit eye melting extravaganza beyond imagination.

[Corum Jhaelen Irsei]

Originally Posted by Skynet

Fact: Fermi will turn a 6 bit panel into a 128 bit eye melting disaster beyond imagination.

fix't

[razor1]

Originally Posted by icecold1983

i dont need to ask around, virtually every prediction u make is so ridiculously far from what actually happens. its obvious u dont have any idea at all about whats going to happen in the future.

"gt200 will be 50% faster than 9800 gx2"

Well then again, no PM's from you so I guess you don't want to talk about it, so you really should drop it.

Originally Posted by Skynet

Why do all of these threads always turn nasty and personal? We are all the same peas in a different pod, er, or something like that.

Because you have people like Ice, SC, and Corum that make things personal.


And when is B3D's write up going to be ready ?

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by erek

as far as i know LCDs haven't reached much less surpassed Flatscreen CRTs, but SXRDs (liquid crystal on silicon) are kind of close... (very expensive)


anyways what my message brings up is the negligibility and triviality of bickering over these individual specifications when the average experience is far from able to appreciate the details being debated.

I disagree with your conclusions, but this isn't the place to discuss it.

[Nunz]

Originally Posted by pahncrd

It is fine to have spirited debates so long as things don't get overly personal or insulting. It is often quite enjoyable to argue with competent and respectful individuals with alternate viewpoints. Unfortunately, emotions can run pretty.

This isn't a debate, because Corum already knows the "answer" to this question. He made the thread for a specific reason and it was to cause a ruckus as usual.

[Wild Thing]

This thread is funny.....Razor and Annabel raving on about "Fermi"
Didn't you guys/girl watch The Matrix?
Remember the little boy saying "There is no spoon"?
Well...there is no Fermi.
Show me one...lets see some benchmarks,give me a release date,how about pricing etc etc...its Failware.
Just get over it seriously...ATi has won (and won big) this round.
Show some spine and accept the reality and you'll all sleep a little better.

[Sasquach]

So i bring these questions (if it hasn been brought up already...i didnt read thru the whole thread).

With TSMC having issues with the 40nm process causing the ATI 58xx series shortages, how is this gonna affect Fermi which is a larger die and thus prone to even lower yield rates? And are the 57xx series affected? Cuz if both companies rely on TSMC for their graphics chips, well, unless they have some kind of allocation strategy involved theres not gonna be alot of room for both companies to have a large capacity of chips ready.

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by Wild Thing

This thread is funny.....Razor and Annabel raving on about "Fermi"
Didn't you guys/girl watch The Matrix?
Remember the little boy saying "There is no spoon"?
Well...there is no Fermi.
Show me one...lets see some benchmarks,give me a release date,how about pricing etc etc...its Failware.
Just get over it seriously...ATi has won (and won big) this round.
Show some spine and accept the reality and you'll all sleep a little better.

It isn't out yet. Maybe we should hold off on the victory party for a couple of months. Wouldn't want to be premature about it. Frankly, Fermi is a neat concept and I am interested to see how well it plays out.

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by Sasquach

So i bring these questions (if it hasn been brought up already...i didnt read thru the whole thread).

With TSMC having issues with the 40nm process causing the ATI 58xx series shortages, how is this gonna affect Fermi which is a larger die and thus prone to even lower yield rates? And are the 57xx series affected? Cuz if both companies rely on TSMC for their graphics chips, well, unless they have some kind of allocation strategy involved theres not gonna be alot of room for both companies to have a large capacity of chips ready.

I imagine yield will be a significant problem for nV, but I am not one of their engineers, so I really don't know for sure.

[razor1]

Originally Posted by Wild Thing

This thread is funny.....Razor and Annabel raving on about "Fermi"
Didn't you guys/girl watch The Matrix?
Remember the little boy saying "There is no spoon"?
Well...there is no Fermi.
Show me one...lets see some benchmarks,give me a release date,how about pricing etc etc...its Failware.
Just get over it seriously...ATi has won (and won big) this round.
Show some spine and accept the reality and you'll all sleep a little better.

Not raving about it, its a good chip yes, just saying what Charlie has been saying hasn't been true at all. With avialability issues of the HD 58XX line, because of the 40nm yield issues at TSMC, has been a buffer for nV, so its not victory at, now if it turns out like the r600 yes it will be a huge failure and huge win for AMD.

Originally Posted by Sasquach

So i bring these questions (if it hasn been brought up already...i didnt read thru the whole thread).

With TSMC having issues with the 40nm process causing the ATI 58xx series shortages, how is this gonna affect Fermi which is a larger die and thus prone to even lower yield rates? And are the 57xx series affected? Cuz if both companies rely on TSMC for their graphics chips, well, unless they have some kind of allocation strategy involved theres not gonna be alot of room for both companies to have a large capacity of chips ready.

Well that is the issue, but its not going to be like the gt200 launch because Fermi should be around the gt200b size, with the rv870 being 340nm2 and Fermi should be around 470nm2 (assuming nV's comments of margins will stay the same with Fermi in thier last conference call is accurate, does sound plausible because the transistor count of Fermi is 40% greater then that of the rv870), the rv870 does have an advantage of being 40% smaller, unlike the 100% die size advantage the HD48xx had over the gt200. Given that yields coincide with die size (not a 1:1 ratio its actually higher) but also coincide with design of the chip its hard to say anything at this point.

[Wild Thing]

Not raving about it, its a good chip yes, just saying what Charlie has been saying hasn't been true at all.

Charlie said it would be late...and he was right.Next year he said...and he was right.
Ouch....no Fermi

[caveman-jim]

Originally Posted by pahncrd

Maybe we should hold off on the victory party for a couple of months.

Lets have two parties; three!

Party #1 - ATi releases a good product that performs well and offers great value for money and features; takes performance crown!

Party #2 - nVidia releases a good product that performs well and offers great value for money and features; takes performance crown!

Party #3 - Only for those individuals who attended both Party #1 and Party #2; if you can't be happy for the good in both, GTFO!

cool?

[pahncrd]

Originally Posted by caveman-jim

Lets have two parties; three!

Party #1 - ATi releases a good product that performs well and offers great value for money and features; takes performance crown!

Party #2 - nVidia releases a good product that performs well and offers great value for money and features; takes performance crown!

Party #3 - Only for those individuals who attended both Party #1 and Party #2; if you can't be happy for the good in both, GTFO!

cool?

Sure thing! I'm down for as many parties as possible. Hopefully ATi will fund the first one and then nV the second... of course, I imagine you will have to pick up the third and largest tab my friend.

[icecold1983]

Originally Posted by razor1

Well then again, no PM's from you so I guess you don't want to talk about it, so you really should drop it.




Because you have people like Ice, SC, and Corum that make things personal.


And when is B3D's write up going to be ready ?

pm you over what? its common sense that gt200 is not 50% faster than 9800 gx2, theres nothing to argue. you dont have sources u just fabricate pro nvidia rumors for some unknown reason.

[razor1]

you won't copy and paste my analysis, not only that you couldn't even rebutt it when it was posted up originally instead you went on a name calling spree, and you keep repeating like a broken record, why do you post if you don't add anything to the discussion? Instead talking about the merits of what I post (you can always disagree thats fine but there are ways of doing that that won't offend the other person), in your case and the two others probably just get high on talking crap? Its the same thing when you talked about physX and game physics and what it could do for games now and in the future, you don't have the basic understanding to say why certain things are the way they are now, you can't analyze certain things because you have never been exposed to a deep understanding of the technology and the process on how things work and what the hardware needs are, unfortunately instead asking questions you pick on certain points and attack, which really is a useless way of going about things because its just aggrivates, not just the other person, but other readers too. It goes both ways man, if you go down a road that doesn't lead anywhere thats what you and the 2 others seem to always do when you don't like what you hear, you drag others down that road too.

[razor1]

Originally Posted by Wild Thing

Charlie said it would be late...and he was right.Next year he said...and he was right.
Ouch....no Fermi

Don't know that yet, and its really not late, according to whom is it late, repectively to AMD's offering yes, its behind, if its released early December hmm yeah its a little behind but still not something that is going to hurt nV much. If its got limited availablity, at this point I don't see why it wouldn't have some kind of availability at launch, Charlie would just be Charlie and state something like "look there is not enough to keep them on the selves, they have too low yields, I was correct".