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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Dec 18, 2008, 10:09 AM   #151
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SIrPauly
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Another house and enjoy many of their titles -- nice!
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Old Dec 18, 2008, 10:31 AM   #152
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Yup EA, 2k, and now THQ. Nice. I hope these companies build games from the ground up using Physx, and scale the engines accordingly.
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Old Dec 20, 2008, 08:07 AM   #153
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Nvidia only acquired Ageia this February? Seems a lot longer than that, got to give them credit for their ability to push a technology.
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Old Dec 20, 2008, 09:06 PM   #154
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I've been playing around with the varous 180.xx drivers since buying gta iv. This of course includes the physx drivers. One thing I've noticed is that I usually get a smoother game experience with physx enabled.

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Old Dec 22, 2008, 09:22 AM   #155
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Found another article on Cryostasis and like the approach of explaining the effects seen with screen shots. One of the areas that I thought was really neat was this:

Quote:
This room has a force field (wind) blowing fluid particles across the table. The particles collide with the dynamic objects on the table.
That was my favorite part of the demo.

http://en.expreview.com/2008/12/19/r...of-reason.html

Also this article touched on performance with a 9800 GTX plus.
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Old Dec 22, 2008, 05:08 PM   #156
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Another article on Cryostasis from Computerbase.de


http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 04:55 PM   #157
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Finally, we get PhysX sorting option in Nvidia Game Browser
http://www.nzone.com/content/GameBrowser/index.asp

It's not working very well currently (QW: Enemy Territory with PhysX ?!), but not bad for a start)

(nice thing for me personally, since I wrote mails with suggestions about such thing even to Roy Tailor)

also, dont miss triple-SLI Cryostasis benchmark review
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/855/1/
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 05:51 PM   #158
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The triple Sli is pretty cool to see and to see Sli with a discrete PhysX GPU.

What would be cool is to have Tri-Sli -- with the ability to use the third GPU as a discrete PhysX -- at least some performance numbers -- or with Quad Sli -- to see four GPU's with PHYSX/3d or three using 3d and the other used as a PhysX discrete GPU.

Granted, a cheaper discrete GPU PhysX is a nice option but hopefully with Tri-SLI, well, a gamer may have the choice to use their third GPU as a 3d/PhysX GPU or as a discrete PhysX GPU for PhysX titles and for a 3d render GPU for the rest -- that's value, too. That's some serious flexibility moving forward with Tri-Sli and hopefully even more with Quad.
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 06:12 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zogrim View Post
Finally, we get PhysX sorting option in Nvidia Game Browser
http://www.nzone.com/content/GameBrowser/index.asp

It's not working very well currently (QW: Enemy Territory with PhysX ?!), but not bad for a start)
I just checked it out -- that is very nice and a great suggestion and makes it quite easy to investigate. Nice to see Sacred 2 in there as well.
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 06:18 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
I just checked it out -- that is very nice and a great suggestion and makes it quite easy to investigate. Nice to see Sacred 2 in there as well.
Interesting you mentioned Sacred 2. I had to reinstall the game after updating my physx drivers. I kept getting an error because of a missing physx driver file.

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Old Dec 23, 2008, 06:31 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Dungeoncrawler View Post
Interesting you mentioned Sacred 2. I had to reinstall the game after updating my physx drivers. I kept getting an error because of a missing physx driver file.

Dc
I don't know -- don't have the title yet. Don't know if the current Sacred 2 is ready-for-prime-time for GPU PhysX or if a future patch may offer it or improve it. Still a bit confused here still.
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 06:38 PM   #162
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Here is a link that Zogrim kindly offered a few pages back:

http://www.extrahardware.cz/geforce-...ytahuje-zbrane

In the above link there is a slide from nVidia that places Sacred 2 on their PhysX roadmap.


Here is that Slide:

http://www.extrahardware.cz/files/im...c/physx/03.jpg
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Old Dec 23, 2008, 06:48 PM   #163
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Thanks for the link. Shame the last patch for this game has affected performance for me in such a negative way.

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Old Dec 24, 2008, 11:36 AM   #164
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Found cool PhysX map for UT3 - fully physically simulated mechanical clock)
http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...4#post25862704
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Old Dec 24, 2008, 12:49 PM   #165
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Quote:
Coincidentally, I also had a sudden urge to learn how mechanical clocks work, so I combined the two, and here is the result. It's all driven purely by the rigid-body physics simulation available in UT3 via PhysX. I haven't tested it over a long period of time, but it seems reasonably accurate.
Laughed at the bold part because, personally do the same thing at times. Sudden urge to understand how something is designed and works. It was nice to read something about rigid bodies, too.
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Old Dec 25, 2008, 02:33 AM   #166
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Huge PhysX Q&A by EggXpert (about 600 questions)
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/450323.aspx

Nothing new to me, except that PhysX SDK is used in SolidWorks 2008 CAD System)
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Old Dec 26, 2008, 12:05 PM   #167
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A lot of questions and actually read them all. Didn't learn too much and felt like a Faq.. Read some views from gamers playing Cryostasis and some are impressed with the title and PhysX so far -- based on a very sampling though.
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Old Jan 9, 2009, 03:00 AM   #168
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Mirror's Edge Preview from IGN
http://pc.ign.com/articles/943/943020p1.html

Some new videos included, with GPU PhysX Effects enabled)
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Old Jan 9, 2009, 05:03 AM   #169
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Just checked them out, thanks!
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Old Jan 13, 2009, 05:12 AM   #170
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New PhysX drivers released
http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_9.09.0010_whql.html

-------------
And german Mirror's Edge video preview
http://www.gamestar.de/index.cfm?pid=452&pk=11662

Gives another sneak peak view at GPU PhysX effects.. all those falling glass, spark, debris from bulet impacts, and enourmous emount of physical cloth (10 times more than Warmonger, but well implemented in level structure) are looking very good

------------
video review from IGN
http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/949454...ew_011209.html
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Old Jan 13, 2009, 08:35 PM   #171
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Yeah, the video did offer some nice effects there, thanks!
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Old Jan 14, 2009, 02:56 AM   #172
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Interesting interview about PhysX (and Mirror's Edge, of course) with Tom Farrer, DICE Producer and Nadeem Mohammad, Nvidia Product Manager

http://www.playmagazine.com/index.ph...ge&Game_ID=949
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Old Jan 15, 2009, 02:45 PM   #173
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Stores finally got rid of PhysX cards? I was contemplating on getting one if I can find em very cheap. But nobody has them anymore, not newegg, amazon, not even pricegrabber.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:21 PM   #174
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Default AMD says PhysX will die

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...ysx-will-die/1

This has been a hot topic at hand lets discuss it now that we see a recent AMD marketing response.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:33 PM   #175
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Jester we're keepin all the PhysX stuff in this thread so there's not a hundred different PhysX threads clogging up the forum. everytime there's an announcement about it.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:34 PM   #176
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This is old news and I think I have another and will try to find it.
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 12:45 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesterOnYer6 View Post
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...ysx-will-die/1

This has been a hot topic at hand lets discuss it now that we see a recent AMD marketing response.
I say AMD is more likely to die this year than PhysX.

Who will prove correct next January?

As far as the article goes:
1. Gee, ya think? ATi PR doesn't like their competitor's proprietary features? <gasp>

2. This article is a month old, and I believe a repost.

3. Even the end of the article says:
Quote:
However, it still remains to be seen when we're actually going to see Havok Physics running on Radeon GPUs - we get the feeling that Intel is holding the aces back until Larrabee hits the scene. All we're hearing at the moment are buzzwords like OpenCL and DirectX 11 Compute - but they're not here today and Radeon owners are expected to play a waiting game.
Who is "Intel" (the owner of Havok) in relation to AMD/ATi? Oh yeah, they're the company that wants to put AMD/ATi out of business, or perhaps bleed them down even further.Their main competitor.

Yes, the collaboration of Intel and AMD is almost here- I bet Intel is trying to borrow money these days to be sure they have enough to help AMD (their only competitor) compete with them for market share!

Yep.

Maybe it's more like:

The companies with money (NVIDIA and Intel) bought physics companies to compete with each other, and AMD is on the outside saying "We're waiting for Havok" until Intel presents them with the bill at which point they'll say "Physics aren't important anyway, check out this tesselator!".
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 01:13 PM   #178
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Quote:
Godfrey Cheng, Director of Technical Marketing in AMD's Graphics Product Group, has said that PhysX will die if it remains a closed and proprietary standard.

"There is no plan for closed and proprietary standards like PhysX," said Cheng. "As we have emphasised with our support for OpenCL and DX11, closed and proprietary standards will die."

This was part of AMD's response to our questions about EA's and 2K's decision to adopt PhysX across all of their worldwide studios earlier this week.

When asked what impact major publishers adopting PhysX across all of their studios would have on the PC gaming industry as a whole, Cheng responded by saying:

"We cannot provide comments on our competitor's business model except that it is awfully hard to sustain support by monetary incentives. The product itself must be competitive. We view Havok technologies and products to be the leaders in physics simulation and this is why we are working with them. Games developers share this view. We will also invest in technologies and partnerships beyond Havok that enhances gameplay."

It's interesting that Cheng says game developers share the view that Havok is the market leader in physics simulation - does that mean both Electronic Arts and 2K Games adopted PhysX against their development studios' wishes? Cheng pointed out that "People need to scrutinize various announcements on what is being "licensed". Is it to replace the whole physics simulation / tool stack within a game or within the whole studio? Is it for a specific physics simulation product or just a couple of titles? Remember PhysX also has game physics libraries in addition to its new GPU based products.

"An agreement to support PhysX may be for a limited portfolio of features. If you recall, Ageia had tremendous difficulty giving away its technologies and products for free whereas Havok could charge licensing fees. The quality of Havok's product and support hasn't changed nor has the preference by the developers for Havok. Games developers and studios are always interested in NRE and co-marketing deals which may be the catalyst for recent PhysX announcements."

So, what about the promise of GPU-accelerated Havok Physics on ATI Radeon graphics cards? It's still coming apparently and Cheng said that "[AMD] will provide more clarity to our work once more milestones have been achieved between AMD and Havok."

"Our guidance was end of this year or early next year but, first and foremost, it will be driven by the milestones that we hit. To put some context behind GPU based physics acceleration, it is really just at the beginning. Like 3D back in the early 1990s. Our competition has made some aggressive claims about support for GPU physics acceleration by the end of this year. I.e. Support in many titles....but we can count the titles on one hand or just one or two fingers," added Cheng.

"It should be noted that title support for GPU accelerated physics simulation is NOT the end game. The end game is having GPU physics as an integral part of game play and not just eye candy. If it is optional eye candy, GPU physics will not gain traction. The titles we have seen today with shattering glass and cloth waving in the wind is not integral to game play and the impact on the game's experience is minimal. We are looking for ways to integrate GPU physics better into game play. Or even things like AI instead of focusing on eye candy / effects physics."

Cheng's final words make a lot of sense and I find myself agreeing with him. We said something similar when Nvidia announced that the PC version of Mirror's Edge was delayed because of the PhysX implementation which, following a brief hands-on preview last week, does nothing but add some additional eye candy. None of it influences the actual gameplay experience.

However, it still remains to be seen when we're actually going to see Havok Physics running on Radeon GPUs - we get the feeling that Intel is holding the aces back until Larrabee hits the scene. All we're hearing at the moment are buzzwords like OpenCL and DirectX 11 Compute - but they're not here today and Radeon owners are expected to play a waiting game.

What do you think to AMD's response to Nvidia's recent success with PhysX? Share your thoughts in the forums.
If you think Intel want's AMD gone well all I can say is your just plain ignorant. Jethro if your gonna quote the article don't pick and choose and bold and spin the folks here can read so i went ahead and posted the whole article.

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Old Jan 16, 2009, 01:27 PM   #179
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Quote:
we get the feeling that Intel is holding the aces back until Larrabee hits the scene.
This makes sense to me, as it mirrors what nVidia did with PhysX (although much shorter time frame). PhysX was a non-issue after being bought by nVidia until the physX API (portions of it) implemented in CUDA, and there was CUDA capable hardware well available (8 series adoption was very good).
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Old Jan 16, 2009, 01:33 PM   #180
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problem is the whole article is spin since AMD doesn't have a solution to compete. If they had something and they were pushing it, the article would have gone a different direction,

Quote:
"We cannot provide comments on our competitor's business model except that it is awfully hard to sustain support by monetary incentives. The product itself must be competitive. We view Havok technologies and products to be the leaders in physics simulation and this is why we are working with them. Games developers share this view. We will also invest in technologies and partnerships beyond Havok that enhances gameplay."
Everything in business is supported through monetary incentives, this statement is foolish.

Quote:
"An agreement to support PhysX may be for a limited portfolio of features. If you recall, Ageia had tremendous difficulty giving away its technologies and products for free whereas Havok could charge licensing fees. The quality of Havok's product and support hasn't changed nor has the preference by the developers for Havok. Games developers and studios are always interested in NRE and co-marketing deals which may be the catalyst for recent PhysX announcements."
Quite wrong, Unreal 3 an engine that has been licensed for many projects supported Ageia physX well before nV bought them out, not to mention many other 3rd party engines are using it now. Also quite a few games have used Ageia physX before the buy out.

Quote:
"Our guidance was end of this year or early next year but, first and foremost, it will be driven by the milestones that we hit. To put some context behind GPU based physics acceleration, it is really just at the beginning. Like 3D back in the early 1990s. Our competition has made some aggressive claims about support for GPU physics acceleration by the end of this year. I.e. Support in many titles....but we can count the titles on one hand or just one or two fingers," added Cheng.
Where is the chest pumping of the 1900 series and physics support?

Quote:
"It should be noted that title support for GPU accelerated physics simulation is NOT the end game. The end game is having GPU physics as an integral part of game play and not just eye candy. If it is optional eye candy, GPU physics will not gain traction. The titles we have seen today with shattering glass and cloth waving in the wind is not integral to game play and the impact on the game's experience is minimal. We are looking for ways to integrate GPU physics better into game play. Or even things like AI instead of focusing on eye candy / effects physics."
Physics has been an integral part of game developement since the birth of 3d, developers have always strived to get realistic physics into games, but because of computational power limitations many times have had to fake it. The most complex physics simulations are things like cloth and water. The more dynamic with non congruous physical attributes an object has the more calculations will be needed. Introducing game play elements with physics is what Half-life 2 did, yes those are rudimentary but how much further can in be taken, this is more of a game design issue, not to be put on a IHV's head. Robust physics engines are generally capable of doing what ever a programmer/designer wants, its just math anyways.

Is Havok open source? No it isn't, why was it selected by AMD if they are so against "proprietary standards"? Thats just hypocracy at its best
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What exactly do you think would happen if you *did* connect a large load? The arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
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Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

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and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.

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