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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Mar 12, 2009, 05:15 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Here is a poll that is in the 3dVision forum at nZone and the percentage is very high for ghosting and some nice views in there.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=91230


The key is it must be some tough to receive a ghost free experience in all and what is the difference compared to other solutions and past solutions?

Glad, that I am waiting to get more of a feel on what to expect.
Damn, I was really hoping that using an LCD could eliminate ghosting. That was the only real problem with playing in 3d stereo on my old 22" CRT.

After reading some of the reviews regarding the new Stereo 3d glasses and LCDs, they don't seem to be new at all. Stereo 3d still has all the same annoyances that it had in 2004. I was really hoping that most of those kinks had been worked out, as when 3d Stereo works, like in the case of Painkiller and Mechwarrior 4, the effect is amazing.

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Old Mar 12, 2009, 05:22 PM   #212
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Was hoping for "ideal" but certainly will take improved and the choice to consider stereo3d than what was offered a few months ago. I'll just wait and doubt I will pay a premium and see how this plays out as it matures.

Still excited but the sacrifices and costs are a bit on the high side for me at this time. If I could see this in a few titles at a retail outlet and if I liked it would buy it instantly.

3d has always been about trade-off's and this is no different, so it seems.
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 05:31 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Was hoping for "ideal" but certainly will take improved and the choice to consider stereo3d than what was offered a few months ago. I'll just wait and doubt I will pay a premium and see how this plays out as it matures.

Still excited but the sacrifices and costs are a bit on the high side for me at this time. If I could see this in a few titles at a retail outlet and if I liked it would buy it instantly.

3d has always been about trade-off's and this is no different, so it seems.
I will probably be more interested when the tech goes down in price and the compatible monitors get a bit bigger. I really don't want to go back to 1680x1050.
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 08:30 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by pahncrd View Post
I will probably be more interested when the tech goes down in price and the compatible monitors get a bit bigger. I really don't want to go back to 1680x1050.
I'm waiting for a little bit too for the drivers to mature more and the price to drop. I have a 61 inch DLP that is 3D ready so no worries on that front!
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 08:33 PM   #215
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I am starting to dig a bit more on cross-talk and found this post:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...dpost&p=498692


Quote:
Hi There,

Ok a few ideas to start with.

1. Have you ensured that the Dynamic Contrast on the monitor's Magic Bright setting is off? We will be adding an FAQ on this soon. Basically Dynamic Contrast adjusts the backlight dynamically depending on the scene which can interfere with the 3D effect. Leave it off when you run 3D Vision.

2. How long are you allowing your monitor to warm up before during your critical viewing? Most LCDs need at least 15-30 mins to properly warm up.
This is useful information to me and didn't know.
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Old Mar 12, 2009, 09:28 PM   #216
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I haven't tried 3D stereo yet, but there's one thing that always makes me curious with ghosting.

In real life, and with still stereoscopic images that use the through-view or cross-eye technique for viewing them, you still get "ghosting"; that is the result of where you are letting your eyes converge upon in the image. If you adjust the convergence to view the objects "closest" to you, the background image will duplicate, and likewise if you converge upon the "distant" objects, the foreground will duplicate.

This has nothing at all to do with the effectiveness of the shutter glasses, though of course if they are not shutting out the light from the monitor 100% then you will get "true" image duplication or true ghosting.

Assuming the shutters are blocking the light to each eye 100%, and there are no image retention issues with the screen, then the ghosting that people are seeing is likely due to setting excessive convergence settings on their system, which will result in natural image duplication depending on where they focus (convergence-wise) on the image.

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Old Mar 13, 2009, 07:28 AM   #217
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There is still ghosting with the shutter glasses. Its inevitable. Some games its not even apparent, others are worse. One you actually get into a game and set it up, you probably wont notice unless the convergence is horrible or seperation or "depth" is too high.
Dont worry about that though, the 3d depth and immersion is amazing, and a game changer for me, and totally worth it. There are many more pros then cons. If price is holding you back, go for a non-nvidia solution. Either way, do it now! get to the choppa!
Tis really worth every penny. I dont use ANY game in 2d now. Its just flat and lifeless.
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Old Mar 13, 2009, 09:26 PM   #218
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I've been fooling around checking out the Viewsonic 120hz monitor and actually seem to like it and found this video review:

http://lastgadgetstanding.com/2009/0...zion-vx2265wm/
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Old Mar 21, 2009, 12:00 PM   #219
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Can 3d stereo be used with 60hz? It wouldn't be all that bad to have an interlaced image. I have played like that in 3d before on my old projector.

I want to pick up the kit, but I just don't want to buy a new monitor yet.
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Old Mar 21, 2009, 01:46 PM   #220
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Doesn't seem to be posted here already. A lengthy, informative (impression based on first hand experience) article:

The Future of Stereo 3D Part I: Nvidia GeForce 3D Vision, on Hardware Canucks
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Old Mar 21, 2009, 04:08 PM   #221
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That was a pretty good read and enjoyed it, thanks!
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Old Mar 24, 2009, 02:31 PM   #222
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I've decided to rid the IZ3D monitor. I just don't like the 2D quality, the ghosting, and the amount of problems and conflicts it has with 64-bit Vista.

I really wanted to wait for a 1920x1200 monitor but I had such a bad taste with IZ3D that I need something sweeter

I'm currently deciding between the Samsung and the Viewsonic 120Hz monitor. I won't get 3D vision right away, right now I'm looking to get good 2D quality, better contrast, better colors, better blacks, better sharpness, damn better anything than this IZ3D monitor lol. And most of all, no software conflicts.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Mar 24, 2009, 03:10 PM   #223
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what kind of software conflicts did you have Exposed?
EDIT:nm, i forgot you had 64bit issues. Understood.
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Old Mar 24, 2009, 04:09 PM   #224
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Nail in the coffin the was the ongoing 64-bit issues, which is now affecting my wife and her apps with her profile. We couldn't even log off/switch users anymore since setting up the monitor, when logging off or switching user the monitor blanks completely out, requiring a manual reboot.

The remote desktop work around was too cumbersome, especially since I use it on a daily basis.

I also didn't like the fact that since Windows recognizes the front and back panels as individual side by side screens, I often had windows and apps open up the in front panel, which is invisible without the glasses. So I have to put on my glasses so I can see them, and drag them across onto the normal screen. This gets repetitive and cumbersome really really quick. Some applications open up directly in the "middle" of the dual screen extended desktop, which is on the right edge of the visible screen. Nice! Setting the 2nd panel in clone mode fixes that but somehow breaks the driver, as it doesn't recognize the monitor anymore (like the first time I set it up).
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Mar 27, 2009, 02:50 PM   #225
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yeah, switching users for me requires a 20 second reboot too. and the bios screen is not seen at all without being way off to the side, or have the glasses on of course. I still love what it does, worth it for me. I have not had the invisible apps yet. Try switching the dvi cables places, then setting up the 2 monitors again. all mine open on the back. But i may use different apps too.
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Old Mar 30, 2009, 05:29 PM   #226
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Ok, I'll cross post my review from another forum.

Yeah, so a few weeks ago I ordered the 3d Vision from NCIX. Been using them since then, and I really gotta say - in some games, I'll never be able to play without them again. Painkiller in particular is ****ing awesome - the blood and gibs fly out of the screen and into your face in a very big way here. Shoot a stake into the wall (or an enemy) and walk up to it - you'll think you're about to bump your head on the damned thing.

The main thing it does isn't the in-your-face effects, though - it's actually depth. If you're in a game with a large sense of scale, everything is about to feel about 10 times bigger/further away/deeper/taller - whatever the **** it is, it's basically just gonna be cooler, and that's all there is to it.

Unless the game has objects which have no depth (z-buffer) information assigned to them. In that case, they're gonna be right the **** in your face trying to scratch your eyeballs out. You won't be able to read them, either - not without refocusing your eyes as if you were looking at a far away mountain, and then at something in your hand. This is a problem in some old games like system shock 2 or tribes 2.

Also, since you need to render everything on your screen twice (effectively doubling the resolution you're running) and get the depth information from the z-buffer every frame, it MURDERS your performance. It seriously halves your framerate, sometimes more. SLI is 100 percent necessary here - at 1680x1050, you're gonna need at bare minimum a GTX 260. I have 2 8800 ultras in SLI with a core2 at 3.2 - in left 4 dead at only 1280x720, I'm dropping to around 40 fps pretty commonly. I do run 8x csaa and 16x aniso, but I didn't notice much of a difference turning that **** off.

Another problem is that due to the way the shutter glasses work (opening and closing, synchronized with the images on the screen to give you a slightly offset image for each eye), you MUST have a monitor capable of 120hz. ****ty ****ing LCDs can go suck a cock - you're gonna need either a 400 dollar 22 inch widescreen TN panel 120hz LCD (brand new, and hard to find stock) or a badass CRT from a junkyard somewhere or a 3d ready projector/tv (expensive). So yeah, you're probably SOL without that expensive new LCD. You need a 120 hz monitor so that each eye can get 60 hz through the shutters. You also MUST use vsync, because tearing would destroy the 3d effect completely. With vsync comes mouse lag and lower performance... although, with 120hz, the mouse lag is half of what most LCD users are used to. So, it's acceptable if you aren't playing a highly competitive shooter.

One more thing it doesn't do is create a ghost-free image - the glasses don't turn completely dark when they shutter (it would lower the brightness too much), so you end up with a minor shadow or ghost on each side of the image you're looking at. Think of a lighthouse in the night sky - on each side of the lighthouse, you can see a transparent partial lighthouse where you should see sky. This becomes more apparent in super-bright high contrast situations - mirrors edge comes to mind.

So, yeah, you're gonna look like a bit of a twat with the glasses on, but anyone that mocks you for it just hasn't tried them yet. They're comfy and don't feel flimsy at all, and they'll fit over top of your existing glasses. Eye strain isn't a problem unless you increase the depth too far, and there's no point in doing that if you don't have frog eyes. The glasses also work in the very small selection of 3d movies you can pirate - journey to the center of the earth is the only one I've tried, but it definitely does work. The movie is , though.

****, am I still complaining? I think I'm missing the main point in this ****ty review - ONCE YOU GO 3D, YOU CANNOT GO BACK! The extra level of immersion you get from the glasses is impossible to explain in text - you'll have to try it for yourself. Remember the rush you felt the first time a horde tried to rape you in left 4 dead? You're gonna feel that again even stronger. Remember when you turned on Glide in quake? I'm not exaggerating - that's seriously what it's like. Even with all the disadvantages I listed above (which is all of them, by the way), gaming in 3d cannot be beat. Those of you that had the same type of 3d glasses in the late 90s know what I'm talking about - but you should also keep in mind that while this uses the same technology, there will be less ghosting than you remembered, and the 120hz refresh rate requirement means that there will be much, much less flicker than you remember as well. I'm a picky **** about eye strain, and I have no problem wearing these indefinitely. They're definitely the highest-quality shutter glasses, period.

Feeling jaded about pc gaming? Go blow 250 bucks on these things asap. ****ing fixed!
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 06:28 AM   #227
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The more I read about this, the more I start to yearn for a system that involves two extremely high resolution mini-LCD screens that sit in front of each eye in a headset of some sort. If the LCD shutter glasses don't black out completely, the ghosting would just annoy the hell out of me.
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Old Mar 31, 2009, 08:58 AM   #228
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Totally agreed. I wont trade my 3d monitor for anything. It is a neessary part of my gaming now. I NEVER game in 2d anymore, it just isnt very cool.
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Old Apr 13, 2009, 03:24 PM   #229
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http://mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/rss.cgi?news_id=293

An Interview at GDC about Stereo3d from nVidia.
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Old Apr 14, 2009, 06:40 PM   #230
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A little subjective video about Geforce 3d Vision:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25v1rhtw4A
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 05:21 PM   #231
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37hWz...c-HM-fresh+div

Another video with some info and such but enjoyed the subjective views from a person that did play WoW -- which I intend to do!
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 03:16 PM   #232
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Have read up everything in this thread and every damn thing on the net I can find hehe, and im so exited i cant wait a minute for it so I will get it ASAP and happily trade my new 24 monitor even for this Samsung 22 inch!

This is a must and the best thing that ever could have happend to Pc Gaming
much more so then say getting graffics like Toy Story, im gladely take working 3D over anything else thats for sure

Very nice thread BTW this is and SirPauly thanks for all the work you put out in this thread it's worth gold!
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 03:18 PM   #233
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I will get into this stuff again just as soon as they offer at least a 24" screen. 1680x1050 is just so small after getting used to 1920x1600.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 03:38 PM   #234
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What will offer more immersion?

1680 x 1050 with stereo 3d or 1920 x 1200 without?

That's the key question and no doubt 1680 x 1050 with stereo 3d ( if quality) should smack it and absolutely no contest in my mind. Will find out very soon. It's not apples-to-apples but if the question was:

What's better?

1680 x 1050 with Stereo3d or 1920 x 1200 with Stereo3d?

1920 x 1200.

However, what will the prices be for these bitches? And when?

Already have a 1920 x 1200 monitor; like and will keep it, too.

Thanks MrTexTure, and glad some have found some use for the thread.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 04:47 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
What will offer more immersion?

1680 x 1050 with stereo 3d or 1920 x 1200 without?

That's the key question and no doubt 1680 x 1050 with stereo 3d ( if quality) should smack it and absolutely no contest in my mind. Will find out very soon. It's not apples-to-apples but if the question was:

What's better?

1680 x 1050 with Stereo3d or 1920 x 1200 with Stereo3d?

1920 x 1200.

However, what will the prices be for these bitches? And when?

Already have a 1920 x 1200 monitor; like and will keep it, too.

Thanks MrTexTure, and glad some have found some use for the thread.
First I was a little worried about that myselfs as I have a 24 screen but since I saw this today and seen it on other forums that ppl gladely swap out theirs 30 screens without hesitation it says it all i think

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...=130384&page=2

Quote!!
The monitor on the left is a 30", 25X16, 92% color gamut Dell 3007 WFP-HC, widely considered one of the best gaming monitors on the planet. On 4/24/09, it will be 4 months since I've used it, and all I'd have to do is plug it in. (I also have a 24" 19X12 NEC monitor I no longer game on)

3d Vision does indeed feel bigger than 22", it's because you look "into" the monitor, rather than "at" the monitor.

For me, the added immersion this provides is something I won't game without now that I've done it. I'd say the user experience is somewhat like the difference in driving in Nascar, and playing a Nascar game on your 360.

Obviously it's not "that" realistic, but it is totally different than anything else.

End of Quote!!

Thanks yourself for this very great thread SIrPauly, glad i found it
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 05:09 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTexTure View Post
First I was a little worried about that myselfs as I have a 24 screen but since I saw this today and seen it on other forums that ppl gladely swap out theirs 30 screens without hesitation it says it all i think

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...=130384&page=2

Quote!!
The monitor on the left is a 30", 25X16, 92% color gamut Dell 3007 WFP-HC, widely considered one of the best gaming monitors on the planet. On 4/24/09, it will be 4 months since I've used it, and all I'd have to do is plug it in. (I also have a 24" 19X12 NEC monitor I no longer game on)

3d Vision does indeed feel bigger than 22", it's because you look "into" the monitor, rather than "at" the monitor.

For me, the added immersion this provides is something I won't game without now that I've done it. I'd say the user experience is somewhat like the difference in driving in Nascar, and playing a Nascar game on your 360.

Obviously it's not "that" realistic, but it is totally different than anything else.

End of Quote!!

Thanks yourself for this very great thread SIrPauly, glad i found it
What you can do for the community is if you do go this route and offer your subjective evaluation of what 3d stereo does to enhance the screen compared to your current monitors and simply share. Positives and negatives and all welcomed.

Personally expect some cross-talk at times with extreme color and lighting contrasts and to sacrifice some in-game settings but this review, I enjoyed their evaluation of the product because they really tried to express in words:

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6097


Really desire to play World of WarCraft with 3d stereo since it is my favorite title to enjoy still -- just don't tell anyone!
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 05:43 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
What you can do for the community is if you do go this route and offer your subjective evaluation of what 3d stereo does to enhance the screen compared to your current monitors and simply share. Positives and negatives and all welcomed.

Personally expect some cross-talk at times with extreme color and lighting contrasts and to sacrifice some in-game settings but this review, I enjoyed their evaluation of the product because they really tried to express in words:

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1456&pageID=6097


Really desire to play World of WarCraft with 3d stereo since it is my favorite title to enjoy still -- just don't tell anyone!
I will absolutly go for it, cant wait cant even sleep or think about anything else this is the revolution we all have been waiting for if their aint problems like earlier 3D. but it seems this is the real deal, as you said the A world is in almost every sentence from ppl who has tested it. and the girl on the youtube vid, talk about immersion

Will more then gladly write down my experiance here as soon as I get it and no worry I wont tell anyone about your passion for WOW

Me myself dont play such games as all I like is singelplayer so I never play any MMO's/ Online whatsoever. I know I may be strange but hey we all have different tastes and thats a good thing!
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 05:43 PM   #238
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There is a Chat to win a GeForce 3d Vision and think I will try to win one chatting before I buy one:

http://www.evga.com/evgachat/

Edit:

Cool, it is a chat with Andrew Fear!
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 05:46 PM   #239
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EVGA's Chat is pretty neat and no need to sign in separately if you are already a member of their forums, etc. EVGA is a pretty nifty AIB.
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Old Apr 18, 2009, 05:51 PM   #240
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BTW thanks very much for the link to Bjorn3D, that one I have missed totaly so thanks for ruing my sleep. cant resist must read it all ASAP

Thanks mate I love to read up everything I can on this and to tell you the truth I havent been this ecited for anything since I was a little child. im all that hyped. man what a rush
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