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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Jan 30, 2009, 12:48 PM   #151
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgwn6...eature=related

Here is a video from CES but an interesting part was he mentioned a lot more monitors will be getting the certification from nVidia moving forward.
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Old Jan 30, 2009, 12:51 PM   #152
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzApXilpSY

Here is a video review of 3d vision from PC perspective.
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Old Jan 30, 2009, 12:52 PM   #153
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well i got it. It is not easy to get to work. the nvidia driver does not want to turn on the stereo , but the third party app does. after hours of config, i got no games to work yet, but i did test the 3d capability.
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Old Jan 30, 2009, 12:58 PM   #154
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LOL!

Watch the reactions of people seeing nVidia's Geforce3d vision in PC Perspective's video review above -- priceless! 5 minute mark!
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Old Jan 30, 2009, 10:15 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynakedrat2 View Post
well i got it. It is not easy to get to work. the nvidia driver does not want to turn on the stereo , but the third party app does. after hours of config, i got no games to work yet, but i did test the 3d capability.
You got something other than the Geforce 3D Vision. What exactly did you get, Wicked 3d or Elsa? Do Nvidia drivers support those anymore?

Also, that 60hz monitor is going to be a bad experience (30hz effective), unless you meant 60hz effective? (which would be running in 120hz)
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 03:09 AM   #156
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its x3d. I have it working fine now with the newest nvidia driver and the app that came with it to turn it on. My CRT does 100hz @ 1280 res so its not dim at all.
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its officially sponsored by nvidia all over the package and the instructions and comes with some old nvidia drivers that i dont use. has 15 games with it, but the point is the glasses are the same and the shutter is the same, so all i need is a 120hz lcd to make it work for that. My current lcd will do 85hz but that is dim, yes.
did i mention it only costs an old CRT out of the shed and 5$?
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 04:24 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynakedrat2 View Post
its x3d. I have it working fine now with the newest nvidia driver and the app that came with it to turn it on. My CRT does 100hz @ 1280 res so its not dim at all.
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its officially sponsored by nvidia all over the package and the instructions and comes with some old nvidia drivers that i dont use. has 15 games with it, but the point is the glasses are the same and the shutter is the same, so all i need is a 120hz lcd to make it work for that. My current lcd will do 85hz but that is dim, yes.
did i mention it only costs an old CRT out of the shed and 5$?
That is older technology; the GeForce 3d Vision is newer technology. I think the mistake people may be making is glasses are glasses and shutters are shutters. It's a combination of improved glasses, monitors and drivers that allows this to me.

200 dollars may be high and priced for early adoption to me but as time passes these glasses may drop. I have a ChrisRay quote somewhere that nVidia doesn't intend to have these glasses priced high like this moving forward. As with anything new -- there seems to be an early adoption premium.

Personally had the Wicked3d glasses -- and they were okay -- but expect this newer technology to wipe the floor over-all when it comes to over-all quality.

1680 x 1050, 60hz per eye with minimal ghosting is what I am expecting -- with great flexibility/quality with the separation effect.

Not expecting perfect compatibility with all settings in all gaming titles. Should be easy to add Stereo 3d -- simply enabling it over-all - with some modest tweaking for the titles that are not listed.

Expect this to mature over time and drivers improve - performance, compatibility, developer support ( WOW already has a patch), quality, and improvements with Sli and eventually Tri and Quad support, OpenGL support moving forward.

What this reminds me of is SLi when it was first introduced - needs maturing but glad the choice is offered to mature. Stereo3d always did take a back seat in many ways but it seems nVidia and the industry may be serious about it this time.

This is a gaming experience feature and easy to rip apart with negatives on the surface, but the key is seeing it first hand and will try to.
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 08:51 AM   #158
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Found this article about DLP compatibility.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=nvidia

I was worried that my Samsung DLP was not compatible with the Nvidia 3d glasses but from the article, turns out that Nvidia has an exclusive agreement to promote the glasses only with Mitsubishi DLP. Any make/ model DLP that has the 120hz/3d technology from the year 2008 forward should work.
I'm still waiting on more reviews, hopefully with the make/model of my Samsung DLP before I drop the coin on this technology.
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Old Jan 31, 2009, 10:19 PM   #159
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yeah, i am going to get the nvidia new technology after seeing just how great this older one is. I am really impressed.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 09:27 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
That is older technology; the GeForce 3d Vision is newer technology. I think the mistake people may be making is glasses are glasses and shutters are shutters. It's a combination of improved glasses, monitors and drivers that allows this to me.

Personally had the Wicked3d glasses -- and they were okay -- but expect this newer technology to wipe the floor over-all when it comes to over-all quality.
How exactly are the Nvidia glasses better than the older glasses? They work on exactly the same principal, namely altering the viewpoint for each eye on the display with the glasses providing alternating blanking for each eye through the use of LCD panels set into the glasses.

The only difference I've seen so far is the use of LCD monitors instead of CRTs. And even that is only due to the fact that 120Hz monitors weren't available up until now. All you need is a 120Hz display. The method used to achieve 120Hz is unimportant. So the old glasses would function just as good as the Nvidia glasses, AFAIK.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 11:06 AM   #161
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GeForce 3d Vision is a combination of Eye Glasses, 120hz Display and Software -- not just the glasses to me. Personally trying to gauge what nVidia means by top-of-the-line optics still.

To blanket these glasses and technology to older technologies is not the same. Is like me saying my Wicked 3d glasses playing games years ago is the same is this.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 11:36 AM   #162
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To me, the technology is almost exactly the same. The glasses work the same, you still need a 120Hz capable display and you still need drivers to make it all work. Nvidia dusted off the technology and reintroduced it, but there is nothing really new about it.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 12:14 PM   #163
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It is improved technology over-all.

1) GPU's are much more powerful to allow higher resolutions than the past

2) Monitors have evolved to offer more quality

3) The optics in the glasses may have improved compared to past glasses but need to talk to an engineer or something to find the info I need.

4) Software has improved and a very important part.

5) The industry is moving toward 3d ready and 3d over-all for displays.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 12:34 PM   #164
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When I was investigating David Cook and Gerrit Slavenburg earlier in this thread -- did find this patent awhile back:


http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2007126904
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 01:47 PM   #165
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http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...rticle-6636491

Small video from a tech ABC news site and also touches on how the industry is moving toward 3d with Super Bowl content that was in 3d.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 04:01 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
It is improved technology over-all.
1) GPU's are much more powerful to allow higher resolutions than the past

Which can be used in conjunction with the older style glasses as well.


2) Monitors have evolved to offer more quality

Which can be used in conjunction with the older style glasses as well.


3) The optics in the glasses may have improved compared to past glasses but need to talk to an engineer or something to find the info I need.

Possibly. As of right now, I haven't seen anything to prove or disprove this.


4) Software has improved and a very important part.

Which could be used in conjunction with the older style glasses as well, but I'm sure Nvidia would never allow this. Although I believe that one of the freeware utility programs out there re-enables stereoscopic support with the newer Nvidia video drivers. I can't recall which one it is off my top of my head.


5) The industry is moving toward 3d ready and 3d over-all for displays.

Which can be used in conjunction with the older style glasses as well.


Again, there isn't all that much that has come out of Nvidia regarding stereovision other than updated software and more stylish glasses. The older style glasses will work just fine with 120Hz LCD and DLP displays, too.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 05:02 PM   #167
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Then buy or use older glasses if you believe that.

Edit: If the older glasses work great with the software offered from nVidia --- even better since some may get the glasses cheaper or valued priced for some. Over-all it's great to see stereo get a good kick in the ass.

What I am trying to gauge is how this kit has improved over past products -- things like clarity, ghosting, quality differences but subjective.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 05:55 PM   #168
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MTBS3d offered some infomation on the stereo panel which consisted of nVidia, Iz3d, DDD and LightSpeed.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/newsle...ws_id=70#Panel


The site will have a video of the panel - which is good -- like to watch it.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 06:04 PM   #169
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I don't think one can use the newer stereo3d drivers with older glasses and technologies and the kit consists of the glasses and software.


Quote:
Originally Posted by distantreader
It's a Sony CPD-G520P 21" CRT monitor. Vista and Win7 only allows 1280x960 @85Hz and as I mentioned in the last post I was able to get it run at [email protected]

Currently I've tested only the following games:
1-The Witcher Enhanced Edition - Excellent S3D in both Vista and Win7
2-Tomb Raider: Underworld - Excellent S3D both in Vista and Win7
3-Prince of Persia 2008 - Excellent S3D, tested only in Vista
4-Assasin Creed - Excellent S3D, tested only in Vista
5-Gothic II - Not tested long enough, but what I saw was good S3D. Tested only in Vista.

Regarding older/other brand shutter glasses/dongle compatibility, you must have the 3D Vision plugged in to enable S3D - Then you can make use of the older glasses/dongle - Yes older glasses/dongle are compatible with the new Nvidia S3D driver but only if you had the 3D Vision. My I-Art Eye3D wireless/wired work fine with its own emitter/dongle plugged in the VGA port, just as it always have been concurrently with the 3D Vision of course.

I guess it's the way Nvidia market their product: both S3D driver and hardware in a package and not giving out S3D driver for free as in the past. I also guess that somebody will probably be able to hack this new S3D driver to make it work without the 3D Vision sometime, but currently no such hack exists.

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This was a quote from the same person:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantreader
Bottome line, all three games I am playing The Witcher, Tomb Raider: Underworld and Prince of Persia 2008 work beautifully with Vista 32 + NVidia 3D Vision + 8800GTS 640MB + 181.20 Forceware/S3D driver pair. For me, this is the best S3D game experience todate.
Edit: Forgot the link, hehe!

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopi...f571&start=195
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 08:50 PM   #170
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These views are the ones I like to hear, meaning, the ones that have compared GeForce3d Vision to past or current methods from others:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemav
See, it's interesting for me, a newbie to S3D, to hear people saying this may or may not ghost as much as the IZ3D setup. I have a Mitsubishi 60" DLP set and use it mostly for car racing sims. I had tried the Samsung SSG1000 shutter glasses with the DDD (TriDef) software. I also tried IZ3D beta 1.10 drivers. Neither worked for me. I got extreme ghosting or just the convergance/depth never looked right. I don't know if they didn't sync as well (the glasses) or if it was software or a combo of both, but I was not impressed at all. I returned the TriDef kit and got the Nvidia, and once I got it connected and drivers loaded, BAM, it looked perfect. I even am able to take the stock depth setting of 15% and go all the way out to 70% or so when driving in rFactor- really immersive, and ZERO ghosting, double images, etc... At least for me. YMMV.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopi...2690&start=180
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 09:41 PM   #171
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I like Anandtech's review of the glasses -writtern from a tech-loving-gamer and not from a company boi...

Seems like it isnt a glitch free experience , even when Nvidia has labeled the game 'excellent' for their support of the glasses..

It does have great potential but the support and reality is that it is not a solid product yet.. not enough support and annoying glitches.. not too mention possible long session health problems..

I do like the idea of having a universal API as Anand suggested...developers would then be able to use this when building a game from the ground up and provide much better effects and glitch-free support..

I certainly will not be rushing out for these glasses or replacing my 30" monitor for this .... seems like the support from game developers needs to be much stronger ... lookn fwd to see if game developers lap this up or not...
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 10:30 PM   #172
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I didn't -- not enough testing for me. Didn't like many of the reviews:

1) Don't know much about performance in many titles

2) Don't know about Sli performance

3) Don't know too much about visual quality.

What I've learned is many think the effect is amazing or awesome -- and that is good.

Have learned it works in most titles but one may have to turn off some settings and was hoping for more with compatibility with in-game settings but over-all happy about the ability to add stereo3d in most titles.

The question is: Does the 3d stereo effect worth turning off some in-game settings at times right now? I don't know yet 'till I see it first hand.

Then we have the bigger monitor view, " I don't need to replace my current monitor!" Why would anyone replace a nice monitor like that? One may desire to have another monitor that offers more flexibility to enhance your current monitor. I have a 25.5 monitor and a 20.1 monitor and looking to replace my 20.1 monitor. I am not going to get rid of my 25.5 monitor if I make the move.

If someone isn't excited about the prospect of stereo3d may take negatives and may lock on these -- and very understandable. Someone that is excited about the prospect of stereo 3d may lock on positives -- and very understandable.

The key is does the positives out weigh the negatives?

To some no and to some yes but appreciate the kick in the ass and this choice. And will continue to learn more moving forward and hopefully see it first hand.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 10:43 PM   #173
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On the API:

Don't see why there is a need for one if nVidia can do most of the work at the driver level -- so there isn't a need to design a gaming engine specifically for stereo3d, imho. That is why that news was great to hear last year.

It would be nice to have more compatible aspects though and hopefully nVidia can improve on this. I know WoW did receive a patch to help improve Stereo 3d -- which was good to know.
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Old Feb 2, 2009, 11:44 PM   #174
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The Anand tester noticed glitches to varying degree in all the games he tested.. this is not eveidence of a product that seems ready to me..

Of course it is an exciting tech.. but after reading this unbiased review by Anand.. seems like it is not a solid experience across the board.. even worse.. it works but you have to put up with some annoying glitches.. that would annoy me especially considering the financial outley..

Prior to reading that article I was under the impression it works 100% 3D... but no, that is not the case.. it is a product with conditions.. I don't like that.. too hit and miss..

Yes I heard WoW works well with stereo 3d , prolly the most glitch free game is what Ive heard, however that is only 1 game, plus I dont play it.. great news for WoW'ers tho..

As for the API, I disagree with you.. a universal API would allow ground up game level 3d stereo support.. instead of tach'd-on driver support after.. the evidence of how this method is lacking is already out there in plain sight..ie. visual glitches in every game.. Perhaps Nvidia with time will get this right, but at the moment it is not as solid as I would like..

While I do think this tech is worthy of being excited about.. the finer details of visual glitches and game support arn't as exciting.. I would require this to be ironed out before going for it..
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Old Feb 3, 2009, 12:40 AM   #175
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One of the reviews I read clearly states that on some games you have to turn down/off some of the more advanced gpu 3d settings to get the games to work. I don't want to do that. That's like having sli and being told a game does not support it (which still happens today).
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Old Feb 3, 2009, 10:33 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth Seebel View Post
The Anand tester noticed glitches to varying degree in all the games he tested.. this is not eveidence of a product that seems ready to me..

Of course it is an exciting tech.. but after reading this unbiased review by Anand.. seems like it is not a solid experience across the board.. even worse.. it works but you have to put up with some annoying glitches.. that would annoy me especially considering the financial outley..

Prior to reading that article I was under the impression it works 100% 3D... but no, that is not the case.. it is a product with conditions.. I don't like that.. too hit and miss..

Yes I heard WoW works well with stereo 3d , prolly the most glitch free game is what Ive heard, however that is only 1 game, plus I dont play it.. great news for WoW'ers tho..

As for the API, I disagree with you.. a universal API would allow ground up game level 3d stereo support.. instead of tach'd-on driver support after.. the evidence of how this method is lacking is already out there in plain sight..ie. visual glitches in every game.. Perhaps Nvidia with time will get this right, but at the moment it is not as solid as I would like..

While I do think this tech is worthy of being excited about.. the finer details of visual glitches and game support arn't as exciting.. I would require this to be ironed out before going for it..
That's a fair view but the key is what does the effect do? Do you know? Have you seen it? Have you tested it yet?

I want all the in-game settings to work and don't desire to lower shadows or bloom and such but what if the effect raises the bar so much more with the effect than the shadows or bloom does with a specific title you may have to lower or disable some in-game settings?

I'm allowing for this possibility because I don't know.

Did you see the reaction of the girl with Left 4 dead? Did you see the instant smiles with their reactions? That means a lot to me because it's not biased and real. This is an experience that needs to be seen -- not words.

That PC perspective reviewer had a clue.
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Old Feb 3, 2009, 11:13 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Dungeoncrawler View Post
One of the reviews I read clearly states that on some games you have to turn down/off some of the more advanced gpu 3d settings to get the games to work. I don't want to do that. That's like having sli and being told a game does not support it (which still happens today).
Here is my vision for down-the-road:

Eventually 120hz monitors become main-stream and eventually be replaced as monitors evolve. GeForce 3d vision will be much more affordable and may even be bundled to help sell video cards moving forward. Drivers will mature more as they did with Sli when first introduced --- but probably never be ideal for all, in all circumstances and examples. There may be some developers that may include some patches or abilities for out-of-screen effects, too.

If this happens and costs are low -- can see many gamers try it and may enjoy it and will help sell GPU's over-all for nVidia. The whole point of this is to sell GPU's -- not just 3d glasses.

Right now where in early adoption mode..........has holes, negatives, cons but what is important is the effect -- what is the quality of the effect? If the effect isn't quality -- it will not have a chance at all to me.

I'm not targeting holes right now -- targeting the effect.
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Old Feb 3, 2009, 12:36 PM   #178
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When I read Anand's piece about Fallout 3 -- thought it was odd based on it didn't match the other views I have read:

Here is a new GeForce3d vision owner talking about Fall out 3:

I really enjoyed, how he infected his wife with Geek -- that was so funny

Quote:
The first game I played was Fallout 3. My separation was set to default 15%. The game instantly pulled me into the world. I didn't even realize at that point that I was only at 15% depth. I was in a trance like state .Amazed just walking around looking at the common background that I've been so familiar with as if I was seeing it for the first time. " Wide eyed " . That's what my wife said I was. Of course she immediately grabbed the Glasses off my head and put them on. Now that was strange to see . Looks like I infected her with geek . For a none gamer she was even impressed. The Game itself had changed yet stayed the same. It was a great experience. I found my self running back to earlier parts of the game just to see what they would look like in 3D. The Fallout world really gives you the feeling of being in a postapocaliptic environment. There was little to no " POP " out. But it wasn't really missed. It was the depth that drew me in. Things now have form to them. The grass and the surroundings appeared to be life like . I did notice that something seemed that it was a little off . Something wasn't right . I started to fiddle with the Convergence. After about 20 mins of tinkering I was able to figure out the best convergence settings for the game. It makes a huge difference when you do this. Everything lines up properly and now your really experiencing the environment.
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2758
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 05:41 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
That's a fair view but the key is what does the effect do? Do you know? Have you seen it? Have you tested it yet?

I want all the in-game settings to work and don't desire to lower shadows or bloom and such but what if the effect raises the bar so much more with the effect than the shadows or bloom does with a specific title you may have to lower or disable some in-game settings?

I'm allowing for this possibility because I don't know.

Did you see the reaction of the girl with Left 4 dead? Did you see the instant smiles with their reactions? That means a lot to me because it's not biased and real. This is an experience that needs to be seen -- not words.

That PC perspective reviewer had a clue.
No I have'nt tested it yet.. but the glitches would be too annoying for me after the inital wow factor from the 3D effect..

I dont want an image where Im distracted by gitches, it would take away lots from submersion for me..
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Old Feb 5, 2009, 11:52 AM   #180
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Personally can't put up with glitches like flashing shadows or ghosting but think I could disable certain in-game settings if the effect was quality though.

Let's take a title where shadows are distracting and have to lower the quality of the shadows. So the choice is:

1) Play the title without the stereo effect and have nicer shadows.

2) Play the title with the stereo effect and have a lower quality shadow.

Those are your choices for maybe a specific title -- not all of them but some, maybe.

The key to find out is to test them to see first hand. What if the effect does so much more than what the shadows do without the effect? It's more about flexibility of choice to play a title instead of being locked in and told how to play your game.

That's what this stereo3d choice is: Another way to try to play your games if the end-user chooses -- not for everyone -- but a choice.

When some looked at Sli in it's infancy -- it was buggy -- not too many titles but evolved over time and much more seamless than the past. However, still isn't perfect and has some limitations. This is the way I see Stereo3d -- it may improve over time and may never be perfect or ideal in all circumstances and may have some limitations.

But as with Sli -- the extra perfomance is so very welcomed. As with Stereo3d - the extra immersion is so very welcomed.

Not excited a ton right now this second about Stereo3d but excited about the choice that is Stereo3d and how it may evolve over time. I may go totally bonkers though when I see it first hand -- don't know yet.

On the API:

It sounds great on paper but it has to be created and what guarantee is there that the developer will even add it to their gaming titles? It's like pulling teeth to get AA in some titles now from some developers and does anyone expect them all to add stereo3d?

Sure, some would but most? What about older titles -- how would you get Stereo3d in them?

The best way to me is for the IHV to do most of the work and work with developers to offer seamless abilities through a patch -- instead of an engine designed from the ground-up. It's nVidia's resources to do it.........if they want to.........more power to them and hopefully it will mature and improve like Sli did.

The choice may not be for everyone but there is that choice now -- let's see what happens while we move through time.
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