thief 3 - deadly shadow

[Frazas]

Originally posted by Dem2k
The big question is WHY?

Bad Xbox port.

I'd say that probably the only good port from the Xbox was Kotor and that's because it was, for the most part, developed independently for the PC (thank God for that).

[Guybo]

CacheSizeMegs=64(was=1)

In Q3 there was a tweak like this one-

Does this CacheSizeMegs do the same thing as Q3's? If so, it's a good tweak.

[Craftwise]

I run it at 1600-1200 with no problems...I think it looks pretty good, not the best but pretty good.
Anyways this will tide me over til Doom 3.... If the release date of june is correct.

[Nupraptor]

I love how, even thought it was developed with the PC in mind, enhanced visuals over the X-Box, as a sequel to a PC franchise, people still call this an X-Box port. It was developed for the PC with several concessions made so that it would work on the X-Box. That hardly makes it a "port".

[mpFLUX]

My take of Theif 3.

Graphics engine is NOTHING special. I would have expected
ALOT more from Ion Storm, as many of them are members of
John Romero's old team. A founder of ID software.

The graphics remind me of Morrowind at times, the movement
of the character inside the engines space is less then realistic
some of the lighting effects are cool but the texturing on the
walls at times looks 4 years old.

Their old title Diakatana is better visually and technologically
I think then THeif 3, and that game is years old.

I expected something better.

This is no real improvement over Theif 2 in my oppionion
a few fancy lighting tricks, a shader run here and there but
you can tell this game was designed with weaker Xbox
hardware in mind.

I stated earlier. If you want to see this game look as good
as it possibly can, you need to run 16x AF in the ATI control
panel, and set AA to app pref. Bloom OFF with 1280x1024 res.

flux

[ATMArage]

The real problem with Thief 3- character movement. Although it can help immersion at times, making your POV shake and jitter with the movement of your guy can make the game feel like it's running horribly when in fact you're getting very high framerates. If they'd stuck with the "smoothness" of a regular FPS I guarantee everyone would be liking this game a LOT more.

[mpFLUX]

The movement feels like Dues Ex IW.

I found the game to be pretty fun regardless of these things, my
guess is that Ion Storm got handed most of this game when
Looking Glass Studios went under, and Romero had to pick
up the pieces and work with what he had.

I couldnt believe how much better this game looks with
16x AF, its like a completely different game.

I know what you mean about the FPS, fraps shows a good
40 - 50 fps when my movements feel performance hit.

flux

[Nupraptor]

^ Romero had absolutely nothing to do with this game.

The movement feels like Dues Ex IW.

Uh, it's not even a tiny bit like DX:IW. The movement is tied to the third person model, thus meaning that you move more realistically. Your view bobs, it takes time to stop and start running, et cetera. You're not just a disembodied, floating camera that can instantly break into a run and stop on a dime.

If they'd stuck with the "smoothness" of a regular FPS I guarantee everyone would be liking this game a LOT more.

Maybe people on this forum. But most people, myself included, like the body awareness that's present in Thief 3. It makes for a more immersive and realistic experience. There are even people who have completely disabled the HUD, since you can tell things like what weapons you're using by looking down at your hands.

If it's really that big of an issue, have a look over at the forum on ttlg.com, where they've already come up with ways to remove things like the view bob.

[Chiggs]

Originally posted by mpFLUX
The movement feels like Dues Ex IW.

I found the game to be pretty fun regardless of these things, my
guess is that Ion Storm got handed most of this game when
Looking Glass Studios went under, and Romero had to pick
up the pieces and work with what he had.

What the hell are you talking about? Romero had nothing to do with this game.

[slybri]

Something weird: The game runs fine, 10X7, everything high. Getting lousy frames but it's playable.
But when I use that zoom in, zoom out thing my computer freezes and I get a evil screeching sound. Screech Lock. But ONLY when I play around with the zoom.
My computer did this a lot when I first overclocked it. Then I took it down some and turned off VPU recover. That seemed to stop the Screech locks. But now Garret's magic green eye power is putting some voodoo on my rig.
What up wit dat, yo?

[slybri]

Something evil: Just restarted the game after rebooting. It says my "save game is corrupted" and won't load it. I was half way through the city, man! I do not feel like playing this game from the start!

[nutcrackr]

I didn't like the demo much at all. A lot of little issue build up into a messy game, a lot of it reminded me of DX:IW which makes it a very bad. I got bored with lockpicking every few minutes, I got annoyed at the fact that enemies take 200 shots to die when they have seen you. I got annoyed that you can't crouch and walk against the wall. The levels look bland and the character model being shown in fp looks crap. About the only thing I found interesting was some of the dialogue, it was quite humorous at times but that alone isn't enough for me I'm afraid.

[mpFLUX]

Originally posted by Chiggs
What the hell are you talking about? Romero had nothing to do with this game.

Whenever I think of Ion Storm I think of Romero, its like Baseball and
Hot Dog's LOL althought I just read he left the company way back in 2001,
shows how much I keep up on gaming dev news.

All in All I like the game, ill buy the full version most likely.

flux

[systems]

I finally played the demo last night (retail version comes out in 3 more weeks in the UK).

Apart from the horrendous performace issues (Radeon [email protected] dropping to 10-20 fps!), I was quite impressed. The sounds were all exactly right, the levels all looked right, the sneaking around was cool.

There's a lot I didn't like, but that's all fixed over at www.ttlg.com and especially with the Thief 3 patcher.

I tried playing it with a force-feedback analog(ue) gamepad, but aiming the bow was too clumsy so I went back to the trusty mouse (I switch to the gamepad when I pick locks, for the force-feedback).

I wish I had an EAX4 soundcard though. This is the first Thief game I'm played without the best sound hardware for it (I had an Aureal Vortex 2 for T1 and T2). My Revolution 7.1 only does EAX2.

I am relieved so far. It could have been another DX:IW, but thank god for the modding community over at www.ttlg.com . With those mods and the T3 texture pack (when released), the only things I don't like are the TINY levels (they were bigger in Thief 1!) and the lack of multiplayer AGAIN (unless that really is in the full game?).

[Nupraptor]

I tried playing it with a force-feedback analog(ue) gamepad, but aiming the bow was too clumsy so I went back to the trusty mouse

How did you get aiming to work with your gamepad? By default, my gamepad only works for movement and lockpicking.

and the lack of multiplayer AGAIN

Despite the moderately sucessful Thievery mod for UT, Multiplayer is kind of out of place in a Thief game. I'm glad they focused on crafting an excellent Single Player experience without worrying about a MP portion that I probably wouldn't have played anyway. Especially since it very well could have caused the game to take much, much longer to develop.

[systems]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
How did you get aiming to work with your gamepad? By default, my gamepad only works for movement and lockpicking.

Just go into your control settings and set them! I have the Saitek P2500 and it didn't need any configuring in the gampad tool.

I have two analog(ue) thumb controls so I used:

CONTROL#1 (left thumb)
Move forward
Move back
Look left
Look right

CONTROL#2 (right thumb)
Look up
Look down
Move left
Move right

Aiming works exactly the same as moving. Whip your bow out and wiggle your thumbs. The lockpicking is cool with force-feedback.

[breez]

Originally posted by mpFLUX

Their old title Diakatana is better visually and technologically
I think then THeif 3, and that game is years old.

[Trunks0]

Originally posted by Nupraptor
How did you get aiming to work with your gamepad? By default, my gamepad only works for movement and lockpicking.

Despite the moderately sucessful Thievery mod for UT, Multiplayer is kind of out of place in a Thief game. I'm glad they focused on crafting an excellent Single Player experience without worrying about a MP portion that I probably wouldn't have played anyway. Especially since it very well could have caused the game to take much, much longer to develop.

www.Night-Blade.com coming soon......after the ThieveryUT 1.5 patch (Can't wait for the 1.5)

[Nupraptor]

Yeah, the Night-Blade trailer looked impressive. Still, I'm glad Thief 3 only had a SP game.

http://www.tweakguides.com/TDS_1.html - A pretty good tweak guide for Thief 3.

[jws]

If you don't like the movement, you can turn it off. Check out the tweak thread in the TTLG forums. There are some people even turning off all visual indicators on the hud to make it more realistic.

Originally posted by ATMArage
The real problem with Thief 3- character movement. Although it can help immersion at times, making your POV shake and jitter with the movement of your guy can make the game feel like it's running horribly when in fact you're getting very high framerates. If they'd stuck with the "smoothness" of a regular FPS I guarantee everyone would be liking this game a LOT more.

[systems]

Originally posted by Trunks0
www.Night-Blade.com coming soon......after the ThieveryUT 1.5 patch (Can't wait for the 1.5)

Trunks0 - that's just the news I'm waiting for. Thanks. I might even buy UT2004 (I sold my 2003 and only have UT now).

[Mike89]

Apart from the horrendous performace issues (Radeon [email protected] dropping to 10-20 fps!), I was quite impressed.

I don't get that. It just doesn't work that way with me. If the performance is not there, I am not going to be impressed.

[systems]

^^^Ah, but I'm a long time Thief fan so I already like everything about the game. Even the "brrrrrring" noise of the loot is music to my ears.

I just don't understand how a Radeon 9800 can be reduced to 10 fps by an X-box port. Especially with these tiny levels. For what I'm seeing, I should be stable at 50 fps.

Maybe the Cat 4.6 drivers will help? You can't use earlier than the 4.4 set with this game and the 4.5 drivers break my TOCA Race Driver 2.

[Nupraptor]

10fps? Even I don't get that with my 9700 Pro. You have 4x Multisampling on, or something? The absolute lowest framerate I've seen has been in the Clocktower, where it'll drop to around 18-20fps. Something about those swinging pendulums murders my framerate. Normally, I get around 40fps. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Using the Omega Cat 4.4's right now, since the 4.5's break the shadows.

[GoldenNugget]

since this thread is already five pages long, can we make this thread a sticky?

[Baalthazar]

Here's my opinion of the game:

Pros:

Great graphics - The lighting is wonderful. The textures are great. Bumpmapping is everywhere. Framerates are consistent on my system and do not hinder the play experience (1024x768 w/ bloom and 8xAF on 9700 Pro, Barton 2500+ and 1024MB of RAM).

Good art direction - Level designs are typically of very high quality. Even though the levels are somewhat smaller than in Thief 2 they contain plenty of gameplay and are not clausterphobic. It boggles my mind when I look at some of the more complex rooms in the game - there was a real attention to detail paid here.

The atmosphere - creeping about is filled with tense moments the same as previous Thief games. I just finished the Shalebridge Cradle and it was one of the best experiences I've ever had. It's fun being scared by games

The Story - It starts out kind of slow, but by day 6 or so the story will have you hooked. I haven't finished the game yet, but I've heard the ending is great, too.

Cons:

AI - It's on par with the original Thief games, but still gets confused sometimes. It could stand to be patched up a bit, though it rarely acts foolish enough to really detract from gameplay. And it's just as functional as in any other game out at the moment, so you can't complain too much about that. Nonetheless, I find it to be one of the weaker parts of the game.

3rd Person - Totally kills the immersion. I played one level this way and all I can say is if you play in 3rd person you're ruining the game for yourself. When you're in 3rd person you feel like somebody WATCHING Garret which removes practically all of the tension you get in 1st person mode. Hiding behind a crate with Zombies looking for you is a chilling experience when all you can do is hear their footsteps and breathing, too afraid to peak out for fear of being spotted - in 3rd person it's more like, "When are these guys going to get lost so I can keep going?" Bleh.

"Game Style" FMV's - Many of the videos done in old-school theif style are very entertaining. Ones done with in-game models are less so. I guess Eidos figured that if Splinter Cell could get away with it so could Thief - I disagree. Still, the more artistic videos are very good, though they still don't match those of the original Thief.

Bugs - Yes, I've found a few of these. At one point I fell through a wall and died, occassionally enemy characters will have heightened awareness without giving notice, there's at least one area where you can fall into an in-escapable corner and probably more. But hey, all games have bugs. And these aren't glaring.


Final Thoughts:
This game is a godsend - it's the first game that I've really really enjoyed this year. But it's all up to the player to enjoy it - Thief is an experience. If you're a twitchy gamer who is thrilled by spectacle more than atmosphere then you'll probably be very disappointed. I've spent more than an hour in each of these 'small' levels just hiding, looting, and thumping taffers' heads - if you want a fast game this will be torture to you. If you want to be immersed in a game world though then this is a great one to jump into. Most of the criticisms of the game are unfounded or just nitpicking about small problems.

I find it distressing that so many are comparing it critically to Tom Clancy's shitfest Splinter Cell - a game that earns accolades for nearly non-existent AI, poor shadow implementation, stiff animation, essentially linear level design, and a main character who is supposedly stealthy yet handles like a stiff robot. Thief blows that game's 'stealth' gameplay away by a mile and has better modeling, animation, AI, level design and story to boot.

Likewise many are saying the graphics are nothing special, though the game looks great. It doesn't display the horrendous LOD popping assossiated with more open and sprawling games like Far Cry and the models have much more detail than those populating the environments in Splinter Cell. I'm just not certain how people are justifying their negative opinions of the graphics, perhaps they haven't played the game and just feel the need for anti-Ion Storm bandwagonning.

Conclusion:
The game is fantastic - now everyone go out and buy the PC version so that we can get an editor.

[Crawdaddy79]

I get a minimum 20FPS with no AA at 640 x 480 in the demo... I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

[treefingers1]

Qouted for Truth. I just bought the game from my local EB (is it just me, or is it extremely uncomfortable purchasing a videogame from a girl - it's basically like admitting your a geek and she would never find you attractive... but I digress). I must say that I am very excited to play it. I enjoyed the demo, but I have some concerns about the A.I. and the fact that you can be so close to them without any recognition or awareness on their part.

Anyways, I am seriously concerned with the number of people in this forum that obviously pirated the game and probably justified it by saying that the game itself was only "o.k" or that it lacked multiplayer so there was no reason to purchase it. Looking glass went under for this reason, and Ion Storm is close to it. They may have created a shitfest DX:IW, but this game is leagues above that abomination, and they deserve our support when they get it right.

Originally posted by Baalthazar
Here's my opinion of the game:

Final Thoughts:
This game is a godsend - it's the first game that I've really really enjoyed this year. But it's all up to the player to enjoy it - Thief is an experience. If you're a twitchy gamer who is thrilled by spectacle more than atmosphere then you'll probably be very disappointed. I've spent more than an hour in each of these 'small' levels just hiding, looting, and thumping taffers' heads - if you want a fast game this will be torture to you. If you want to be immersed in a game world though then this is a great one to jump into. Most of the criticisms of the game are unfounded or just nitpicking about small problems.

I find it distressing that so many are comparing it critically to Tom Clancy's shitfest Splinter Cell - a game that earns accolades for nearly non-existent AI, poor shadow implementation, stiff animation, essentially linear level design, and a main character who is supposedly stealthy yet handles like a stiff robot. Thief blows that game's 'stealth' gameplay away by a mile and has better modeling, animation, AI, level design and story to boot.

Likewise many are saying the graphics are nothing special, though the game looks great. It doesn't display the horrendous LOD popping assossiated with more open and sprawling games like Far Cry and the models have much more detail than those populating the environments in Splinter Cell. I'm just not certain how people are justifying their negative opinions of the graphics, perhaps they haven't played the game and just feel the need for anti-Ion Storm bandwagonning.

Conclusion:
The game is fantastic - now everyone go out and buy the PC version so that we can get an editor.

[dumb1]

Baalthazar , u sum up perfectly, agree w/ every point u make

[nutcrackr]

That's really quite interesting actually, because as I was playing ThiefS I kept thinking gee Splinter Cell does this much better in terms of tension and stealth. I'll admit that I've only played the demo but I'd much rather get Splinter Cell than this. Although it isn't a bad game certainly I just can't really get into it. I see Thief's model as poor stiff jittery things far worse than Splinter Cell's. I would also take Splinter Cell's graphics anyday of the week over Thief's. I guess it just didn't float my boat.