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Old Dec 5, 2020, 06:36 PM   #631
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So - the one game I was playing on my series x was Yakuza Like a Dragon. Checked the Microsoft Store on my PC and found out I can download the game there for free! Downloaded the game figuring theres no way my saved game will carry over. Sure enough my saved game is right there. WOW! That is awesome.



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Old Dec 5, 2020, 06:54 PM   #632
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Play anywhere is a really nice feature.
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Old Dec 5, 2020, 11:31 PM   #633
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It’s great when games allow for it.
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 01:20 AM   #634
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Originally Posted by MyTMouse View Post
There are a few problems with that example...1) It's Ubisoft and they don't do crap (IMO) to make games optimized. Take AC Valhalla, it runs WORSE on the Xbox Series X than it does on the PS5. The Series X has a faster CPU, a MUCH more capable GPU with FULL RDNA 2.0 features and 44% more cores along with faster memory bandwidth. After several weeks Ubisoft addressed this issue by patching the Series X game...and all they did was allow the minimum resolution to go even lower on the Series X than the PS5, that's it! no optimizing whatsoever.

Check out the various reputable benchmark sites...RT performance of the 6800 is similar to the 2080 Super and rasterised games run slightly faster in most cases than a 3070

2) the other issue with your example is that dev kits for the xbox consoles were really late and they made a new SDK which developers haven't had much time with. With Watch Dogs Legion you are seeing a PS5 game put on the Series X without any optimizing done at all and using none of the extra features...your 2060 equivalent is for the PS5
6800 is 25%-50% more cores and texture fill rate than a Xbox so you really can’t compare it to a card like that. I do find it a shame that Xbox took so long for SDK to get released as every game so far on ps5 is faster or higher resolution.

Which isn’t great for the most powerful console slogan, XBOX is easily the most value console though when you include gamepass, and Xbox love monthly games, and that all first party games are in gamepass, even more so now that they own Bethesda.
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 01:22 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
So - the one game I was playing on my series x was Yakuza Like a Dragon. Checked the Microsoft Store on my PC and found out I can download the game there for free! Downloaded the game figuring theres no way my saved game will carry over. Sure enough my saved game is right there. WOW! That is awesome.


How is that game? Compared to the previous titles especially as I know the battles are not action beaten ups anymore
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 06:04 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
How is that game? Compared to the previous titles especially as I know the battles are not action beaten ups anymore

So the story is amazing as usual and there are a ton of laugh out loud moments. The main story is actually well thought out and I'm finding myself giving a damn about the main character. Some of the side quests are hilarious. For example theres one where you have to get baby formula for this guy that you think is for his kid at home, turns out its for an adult baby club. I wasn't sure if I would like the combat as it's turn based vs the other games being real time. However, the combat works really well and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Your guys and the enemies are not locked in place on the battlefield - they move around randomly, so timing your attacks plays a huge part. For example, if one of your guys has a cone aoe fire attack - you'd want to wait until maybe you can hit multiple people with it. Theres also the ability to reduce damage from enemy attacks if you block just in time. It runs amazing on my PC - usually around 90fps at 3440x1440 maxed out. I will say it looks more like a PS4 game than it does next gen but it does look really good.


Highly recommended
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 10:39 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
6800 is 25%-50% more cores and texture fill rate than a Xbox so you really can’t compare it to a card like that. I do find it a shame that Xbox took so long for SDK to get released as every game so far on ps5 is faster or higher resolution.

Which isn’t great for the most powerful console slogan, XBOX is easily the most value console though when you include gamepass, and Xbox love monthly games, and that all first party games are in gamepass, even more so now that they own Bethesda.
Not so, the 6800 has 60 cores and the Series has 52...other than that they are the same GPU. The 6800 can boost it's clocks for short periods so it'll still be faster but it's not in a closed system like the Series X so the performance difference will be split most likely.

The 6800 XT has 72 cores vs the 52 In the Series X and the PS5 has 36 cores and is missing several RDNA 2.0 features

By this time next year we'll be seeing a lot more performance out of the Series X. I'm curious to see how the DLSS equivalent (DirectML Super Resolution or something) will be when they get it going. My guess is it'll be maybe slightly better than DLSS 1 but not as good as 2
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 01:47 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by MyTMouse View Post
Not so, the 6800 has 60 cores and the Series has 52...other than that they are the same GPU. The 6800 can boost it's clocks for short periods so it'll still be faster but it's not in a closed system like the Series X so the performance difference will be split most likely.

The 6800 XT has 72 cores vs the 52 In the Series X and the PS5 has 36 cores and is missing several RDNA 2.0 features

By this time next year we'll be seeing a lot more performance out of the Series X. I'm curious to see how the DLSS equivalent (DirectML Super Resolution or something) will be when they get it going. My guess is it'll be maybe slightly better than DLSS 1 but not as good as 2
Cores doesn't tell you everything.

The specs of the xbox GPU

Quote:
GPU Clock
1825 MHz

Memory Clock
1750 MHz

14 Gbps effective
Memory

Memory Size
10 GB

Memory Type
GDDR6

Memory Bus
320 bit

Bandwidth
560.0 GB/s

Render Config

Shading Units
3328

TMUs
208

ROPs
64

Compute Units
52

L2 Cache
5 MB

Theoretical Performance
Pixel Rate
116.8 GPixel/s

Texture Rate
379.6 GTexel/s

FP16 (half) performance
24.29 TFLOPS (2:1)

FP32 (float) performance
12.15 TFLOPS

FP64 (double) performance
759.2 GFLOPS (1:16)
Specs of a 6800 non XT


Quote:

Base Clock
1700 MHz

Game Clock
1815 MHz

Boost Clock
2105 MHz

Memory Size
16 GB

Memory Type
GDDR6

Memory Clock
2000 MHz
16 Gbps effective

Shading Units
3840

TMUs
240

ROPs
96

Compute Units
60

RT Cores
60

L0 Cache
32 KB per WGP

L1 Cache
128 KB per Array

L2 Cache
4 MB

L3 Cache
128 MB

Theoretical Performance

Pixel Rate
202.1 GPixel/s

Texture Rate
505.2 GTexel/s

FP16 (half) performance
32.33 TFLOPS (2:1)

FP32 (float) performance
16.17 TFLOPS

FP64 (double) performance
1,010 GFLOPS (1:16)
That's the cost of having a 500 Euro/USD box, they're still good machines for what you getting at 500, but they're not competing with high end PC's, they're about midrange PC, which is still great value for 500.

I'm not trying to **** on consoles I'm just trying to stop people having this fantasy that these machines will have some super secret sauce that makes them compete with machines 2-3x their cost, they wont and never will.

They're still good machines, and will produce some fantastic games, and thankfully now because they're much faster than last generation games on console and on PC will finally move forward a actual generation.
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Old Dec 6, 2020, 05:00 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
Cores doesn't tell you everything.

The specs of the xbox GPU



Specs of a 6800 non XT




That's the cost of having a 500 Euro/USD box, they're still good machines for what you getting at 500, but they're not competing with high end PC's, they're about midrange PC, which is still great value for 500.

I'm not trying to **** on consoles I'm just trying to stop people having this fantasy that these machines will have some super secret sauce that makes them compete with machines 2-3x their cost, they wont and never will.

They're still good machines, and will produce some fantastic games, and thankfully now because they're much faster than last generation games on console and on PC will finally move forward a actual generation.
Fair enough, that's a better spec layout than I found at most places...thanks

Makes sense when you think about it...when you need a CPU/GPU to fit within a financial and thermal budget like consoles have there's only so much you can do.

And you're right, this generation of consoles is only going to make the PC versions of games better. PC hardware never gets fully utilized IMO because game development has become so inefficient and lazy at times. PC hardware is basically just brute forcing it's way through software. Just look at what AAA Nintendo titles pull off for their insanely underpowered hardware...if a console had a top-of-the-line CPU and GPU in it they would just blow us away....but people aren't willing to spend $1000+ on console hardware.

I know it's off-topic but can you explain the advantages/disadvantages of the FP16 vs FP32 vs FP64 stuff. I'm guessing that FP16 is more efficient but more difficult to use???
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 09:58 AM   #640
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More efficient only depends on what you are computing. Very general terms FP16 = less precision, faster performance FP64 = more precision, less performance. Some things dont require the precision of FP32 and make more sense to run at FP16 (or even less).

Specs of the computation are not apples to apples. There is much more integration in both hardware terms and software terms in the consoles, that simply saying a GPU A is better than GPU B because of specs is not telling the whole story. You are actually achieving your theoretical fill rates and peak computation in the console. It's not even close on PC, so much so, you are actually throwing away a good half if not more of your GPU away, because Nvidia and AMD are doing a lot of the optimization themselves from a driver level. Another rant of mine is that PC gaming has lost its way with this notion of being about better graphics and performance. Thats not what PC gaming is about and should never be. To me PC gaming was about playing games that you could not do on console and having a different experience altogether because of the things you can do with keyboard and mouse. RTS games, MMOs, MOBAs etc. Now its about running benchmarks and paying Nvidia an absurd amount of money.

Some of the games on the 360 were amazing looking and still hold water today. And that is with just 48 shaders at 500mhz.
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 01:06 PM   #641
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So the story is amazing as usual and there are a ton of laugh out loud moments. The main story is actually well thought out and I'm finding myself giving a damn about the main character. Some of the side quests are hilarious. For example theres one where you have to get baby formula for this guy that you think is for his kid at home, turns out its for an adult baby club. I wasn't sure if I would like the combat as it's turn based vs the other games being real time. However, the combat works really well and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Your guys and the enemies are not locked in place on the battlefield - they move around randomly, so timing your attacks plays a huge part. For example, if one of your guys has a cone aoe fire attack - you'd want to wait until maybe you can hit multiple people with it. Theres also the ability to reduce damage from enemy attacks if you block just in time. It runs amazing on my PC - usually around 90fps at 3440x1440 maxed out. I will say it looks more like a PS4 game than it does next gen but it does look really good.


Highly recommended
Nice, can't wait to get around to playing it. Still pissed they ported 0-2 on PC and then just sorta stopped, and then ported 7 to PC WHERES MY 3-6
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 05:34 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by MyTMouse View Post
Fair enough, that's a better spec layout than I found at most places...thanks

Makes sense when you think about it...when you need a CPU/GPU to fit within a financial and thermal budget like consoles have there's only so much you can do.

And you're right, this generation of consoles is only going to make the PC versions of games better. PC hardware never gets fully utilized IMO because game development has become so inefficient and lazy at times. PC hardware is basically just brute forcing it's way through software. Just look at what AAA Nintendo titles pull off for their insanely underpowered hardware...if a console had a top-of-the-line CPU and GPU in it they would just blow us away....but people aren't willing to spend $1000+ on console hardware.

I know it's off-topic but can you explain the advantages/disadvantages of the FP16 vs FP32 vs FP64 stuff. I'm guessing that FP16 is more efficient but more difficult to use???
Plus a system on a chip (SOC) has a constrained thermal envelope it has to achieve which will limit it's real world performance against it's theoretical performance as it will begin to throttle performance as temps rise to protect the SOC. Plus the 10gb memory is shared so not all of it is assigned to the GPU whereas a 6800/XT has 16gb of dedicated video memory which is much better for 4K gaming.

Being in a small form factor is also an issue for air flow. I've heard both consoles exhaust a lot of heat given their confined space which means temps are getting quite high. Same as trying to put a 6800XT in a small form factor PC (probably won't fit anyway) it's not going to end well.

As Sir Baron says probably as powerful in real life as a 6600 or 6700 GPU that will launched early next year so maybe 3rd tier PC graphics.
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 05:50 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
Plus a system on a chip (SOC) has a constrained thermal envelope it has to achieve which will limit it's real world performance against it's theoretical performance as it will begin to throttle performance as temps rise to protect the SOC. Plus the 10gb memory is shared so not all of it is assigned to the GPU whereas a 6800/XT has 16gb of dedicated video memory which is much better for 4K gaming.

Being in a small form factor is also an issue for air flow. I've heard both consoles exhaust a lot of heat given their confined space which means temps are getting quite high. Same as trying to put a 6800XT in a small form factor PC (probably won't fit anyway) it's not going to end well.

As Sir Baron says probably as powerful in real life as a 6600 or 6700 GPU that will launched early next year so maybe 3rd tier PC graphics.
Pretty sure the Series X clocks are locked and don't throttle like similar hardware on PC does. Also pretty sure the 10GG of high speed RAM isn't shared by anything and is completely for games...that's why they have 6GB of slower memory for the OS and also for games as well

I can't speak for anyone else but my Series X runs SILENT and judging by all the teardown videos I've seen of the system it's designed Brilliantly to handle heat and it'll likely never be a problem. The PS5 could eventually have an issue with thermals when it comes to the memory modules on the back side of the board and maybe even the expandable NVMe drive
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Old Dec 7, 2020, 11:26 PM   #644
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The fact that it is SoC means that there is much better memory throughput and much lower latency between GPU, CPU and RAM. Also because again, it is a closed system, you can have insane optimization in regards to memory allocation. Basically the 16GB in the Xbox is way more effective than any sort of configuration you have in a PC. I think it's perfect for this generation, very future proof and not overkill.
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 10:26 AM   #645
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Pretty sure the Series X clocks are locked and don't throttle like similar hardware on PC does. Also pretty sure the 10GG of high speed RAM isn't shared by anything and is completely for games...that's why they have 6GB of slower memory for the OS and also for games as well
The Xbox Series X has up to 13.5GB of VRAM for games, but in practice it is less. That is due to it using a shared memory architecture i.e. VRAM and System RAM is one pool with a single memory address.

PC cards don't really throttle they boost. Stock clocks could be 1800mhz, but they could boost to 2000-2100mhz depending on the card we're talking about.

I'm just glad Consoles used NVME, hopefully it drives the prices down for SSD/NVME drives. I'm just soooo glad mechanical drives are finally put to rest for good. (except for backup storage)
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 10:45 AM   #646
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I've never seen any PC GPU's I've owned throttle back.

It's ALWAYS well over posted stock clocks and "boosting".
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 10:49 AM   #647
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I've never seen any PC GPU's I've owned throttle back.

It's ALWAYS well over posted stock clocks and "boosting".
That's because they don't, but on mobile hardware like laptops they do, but whatdya expect when you have a rtx 2060 and a i7 jammed in a laptop that's like 1cm thick .
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 11:48 AM   #648
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That's because they don't, but on mobile hardware like laptops they do, but whatdya expect when you have a rtx 2060 and a i7 jammed in a laptop that's like 1cm thick .
Yah, I should have said laptops as they are more comparable to consoles in that they tend to have much more limited power and thermal budgets...plus PC hardware can be absolutely massive whereas consoles tend to be much more compact...if you ignore the PS5
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 12:58 PM   #649
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I dunno if the XSX is compact either

I was talking to one of the guys I fly with regularly and he brings his PS4 Pro with him on trips. Asked him if he'd bring his shiny PS5 with him; he laughed. The portability of the console is really dead with this generation. The PS5 is insanely huge, and the XSX is just not a shape that fits well into a bag lol ..
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 01:33 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by MyTMouse View Post
Pretty sure the Series X clocks are locked and don't throttle like similar hardware on PC does. Also pretty sure the 10GG of high speed RAM isn't shared by anything and is completely for games...that's why they have 6GB of slower memory for the OS and also for games as well
That's my understanding as well, at least while games are running. I'm sure it can throttle down when you're sleeping, navigating menus, etc.
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To be honest I never even found doom 3 to be scary since I have a big dick since birth.

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Old Dec 8, 2020, 02:06 PM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
I dunno if the XSX is compact either

I was talking to one of the guys I fly with regularly and he brings his PS4 Pro with him on trips. Asked him if he'd bring his shiny PS5 with him; he laughed. The portability of the console is really dead with this generation. The PS5 is insanely huge, and the XSX is just not a shape that fits well into a bag lol ..
True enough...both are awkward sizes but relatively small compared to most PCs. My last PC I ever had was multiple times the size of either console (full size case)

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That's my understanding as well, at least while games are running. I'm sure it can throttle down when you're sleeping, navigating menus, etc.
yah, I meant with games running
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 03:54 PM   #652
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I wasn't comparing consoles to any PC. Either way, a great functionality of consoles is gone due to the size. I guess there's always $3000 overpriced laptops
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 04:25 PM   #653
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I wasn't comparing consoles to any PC. Either way, a great functionality of consoles is gone due to the size. I guess there's always $3000 overpriced laptops
Wonder if your unit can expense one through GSA with 999 shipping

(if that’s not a thing anymore, trip9 shipping was like AQAP - as in if it had to get on a c-130 and be air dropped it didn’t matter but get it to us yesterday)
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 05:04 PM   #654
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Lol that would be some ****. I'll send you some pics after I get back from this trip this week
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Old Dec 8, 2020, 05:12 PM   #655
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There's the Series S if you're looking for more portability. That thing is pretty small.
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Old Dec 9, 2020, 07:26 AM   #656
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Halo Infinite shooting for Fall 2021 release

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/n...-december-2020

Sounds like it's getting some much needed polish and improvement.
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Old Dec 9, 2020, 09:00 AM   #657
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Series X vs Xbox One load time comparison in Cyberpunk

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Old Dec 10, 2020, 04:29 PM   #658
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Lol that would be some ****. I'll send you some pics after I get back from this trip this week
Sounds good. Looking forward to it homie.
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Old Dec 10, 2020, 07:47 PM   #659
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The Initiative's project was revealed at the Game Awards

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Old Dec 10, 2020, 09:43 PM   #660
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The Initiative's project was revealed at the Game Awards

We should have alot more PD games by now. Not sure what's wrong with Rare.
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To be honest I never even found doom 3 to be scary since I have a big dick since birth.

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