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Old Jan 12, 2019, 09:57 AM   #1
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Hapatingjaky
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Default Employee With Mental and Emotional Problems...

How would you guys deal with something like this. This will be a long one so bare with me.

Recently as you all know I got a promotion at work, I am now the Foreman at the shop, therefor I am managing everyone.

The woman that had the issue with palette jack fiasco has been a major issue for the company every since she was hired. Turns out she has severe mental as well as emotional issues, on top of it she's an alcoholic. We've put her in our finishing room doing all the sanding. Its the only place where we have found her to excel at or so we thought.

Back in June the owner went back to Kiwi land for vacation ( it's where he was gestated ). And put myself and the Office Manager in charge of the shop. She wouldn't listen to us, everyday getting confrontational. She would turn completely red and start yelling at us that she didn't have too listen to us as we are not the managers. Even though the owner told everyone we were in charge. She would then start crying and go home and the next day come back as if nothing happened. Rinse repeat.

It got so bad that if we didn't give her a list in the morning of that days work schedule she would completely shutdown. We actually pleaded with the owner to never give her a list as she would walk around the shop looking for everything even though its brought too her in the morning to finish sand. She pretty much doesn't get her work done, in turn we have to put people in there with her too get things through. She thinks that those people that come in to help her are her's too manage and it has been repeatedly told too her this is not the case.

Fast forward too before Christmas, we fired two people, one of which would secretly fix mistakes she made in the sanding room. This was never informed too the owner and from the way it looked is that she was doing and awesome job which she wasn't. Now that we've fired the person that was covering for her, all her mistakes are coming too light.

Now that I am managing her I have to deal with said mistakes. So back about a week ago we had a very large stair case come through. 65 maple stair treads in total. Problem that cropped up was that she didn't finish sand them properly. You could still see tool marks in the treads and some treads weren't taking the stain the same as the others due to the fact they were not sanded. So I took them all back in too her and told her they need to be sanded, I showed her how to do it properly and I actually ended up doing them with her. But she got confrontational immediately, that its not her fault, and that I shouldn't be explaining this too her since she's been here a year. I explained I am her manager, we've had an issue and I am working with your too resolve it. Well **** me, its like the gates of hell were opened....

Two days ago we had two jobs go through for very large staircases. One staircase had to be handscraped, which isn't easy. So we put two people in there too help her. Immediately she said we were being unfair too her, she turned red, started crying and then told me she's going home. So she left, I had the two people continue on working without issue. Yesterday morning she shows up as if nothing has happened. So I go over the days work with the three people I had in there to get everything finished. 20 minutes later she comes over too me and tells me:

Her : You don't need to state the obvious.
Me : Excuse me?
Her : You don't need to state the obvious.
Me : About?
Her : What I am supposed to be doing.
Me : I am not stating the obvious, I am giving the three of you tasks for the day so that I can get things in to the stain team so we can ship on Monday. You each have duties too do and I want to make sure they are getting done.
Her : You can't tell me what to do, you are not my manager.
Me : That's exactly what I am.

But I am very calm about it, she's all red, yelling, and getting confrontational again. To top it off all I smell is Alcohol. This is at 8:00am in the morning. So I walk away from the conversation and have a sit down chat with the owner. I explain we have an issue again, the owner states that she doesn't like change and she thinks you treat her like an idiot ( which she is ). I tell him I am treating her like an idiot and the owner agrees with me. I tell her she reeks of alcohol, and the owner states he knows, he has sent her home twice before because of it. So I'm thinking, send her home but she should now be fired. The owner refuses and lets her work even though she's impaired.

So the stain team starts bringing items back that she did the previous morning, missing handscrape, not wirebrushed and not sanded. So she gets irate stating this has never happened before ( which it has ). She tries bossing others around too fix her mistakes which isn't happening. So I finally got in to it with her, I explained we have no issues with anyone else in the company besides her when it pertains to her work. I told her:



You are refusing too work, you are attacking other employees and you reek of alcohol, go home we will call you. She immediately runs too the owner crying and telling him I am being mean too her. Dam ****in right, I have an incompetant employees refusing too work and who's drunk. The owner sides with her. Everyone in the shop is beside themselves as to what's going on, even the owners wife who was in told him too fire her.

We have a meeting and I told the owner he can take the promotion and shove it up his ass if he is not going to back me up on this.... He promoted me because of my work ethic and because I've practically been running the company for the past 4 years.

Like **** me....
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 10:50 AM   #2
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Why doesn't the owner fire her? Does she having something on him? Is she related to him?

I wish I could work in a place that lets me throw tantrums, not do my job, and come in every morning smelling like a still.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 11:20 AM   #3
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I see a Fight Club situation here
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 11:25 AM   #4
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I don't suppose you know if she is seeing a psychiatrist? It is not your position to know, it is a delicate subject to talk about, it will cause conflict if you ask her about it, but given the many years this person is working with the company I can see how the owner is worried about her. He thinks he is protecting her by doing this (as in letting her keep her job despite everything, letting her be free to do whatever she wants), but the problem is that this behavior of his is hurting her too since she lost control several times already.

She should be fired for the damage she is doing? I think so, but what will happen to her? Does she have any family? The situation is complicated.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 11:38 AM   #5
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I don't know how the laws are up in Canada, but I suspect that laws and such are similar as here in the state:

I would sit down with your boss and ask him if this woman is worth his business, because just with the fact that she comes to work drunk, the owner knows about it, if anything where to happen to her, or another employee, it could very well cost him his business. In the states, if Osha found out, they would fine the crap out of the company and most likely after a lengthy investigation, shut them down since it has been going on some time it sounds like, and it's the owner is allowing it. Except in this situation, the owner could use you as a scape goat, and you could lose your job placing the blame on you if something like that where ever to happen.

Also, what is going to happen when her "out bursts" go to the next step and it doesn't involve just yelling? What if she comes in, in one of her drunken states and snaps, but rather then yelling, she gets violent and hurts an employee or worse, you? Specially if it is a mental issue, she could easily snap at any given moment.

What I find odd, is you guys fire a guy who was fixing her mistakes, which I get to a point, but you didn't fire the person who has a drinking problem, insubordinate, making the mistakes. Was it ever considered that the employee who was fixing her mistakes was doing it with the company's best interests at heart, knowing that the owner wouldn't do anything about her, and it wasn't doing it to cover it up, but to just get the order out the door? Or he was afraid it would make him look bad, if mistakes where coming out from that department and he was making sure everything was to standard to ensure it didn't reflect on to him. I think firing the guy was a little over the top from the description of what is going on, and the he should be the one still working, and this woman should have been fired.

Now, I suggest you start documenting EVERYTHING with dates, times and descriptions of what happened from her mistakes, coming to work drunk, and her out bursts, if you haven't already, to ensure you have plenty of documentation to back everything up if the day your owner grows some balls, or takes his balls back from her, and fires her. EVEN if you are not taking the promotion, to protect yourself from false accusations.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 01:14 PM   #6
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Canadians ... too lenient She would have been gone.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 01:21 PM   #7
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Canadians ... too lenient She would have been gone.
Long time ago. Can't see why owner would want to keep her unless he was doing her.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 04:20 PM   #8
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To* not too.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 04:24 PM   #9
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She sounds insane and it sounds like she has something on your boss.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 04:48 PM   #10
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She sounds insane and it sounds like she has something on your boss.
Or the boss has something for her.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 04:58 PM   #11
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Sounds like you need to smash a wine bottle filled with maple syrup in the owners ass.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 05:48 PM   #12
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Or the boss has something for her.
Yep.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 06:57 PM   #13
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From the moment she was hired we had issues with her. She was originally hired to work on our stain team. That quickly went south as she couldn't complete one task that was ever given too her and she couldn't grasp the job at all.

She was then positioned as a helper to the old guy in production but that was pretty much the blind leading the blind on that one. She couldn't even router treads correctly. She even had a notepad where she would write everything down but after viewing her notepad you couldn't make heads or tails of anything in there. Nothing made sense, it was either backwards or starting in the middle which even confused her.

She was then moved to our sanding room where she is now. We tried her in flooring vents for a stint but that went south quick because she couldn't get measurements down correctly, vents were lop-sided instead of square and too many screw ups.

Back in June when we had the first big indication that something was wrong the Office Manager said that her responses felt like they were programmed. Like an exercise a psychiatrist would have someone go through. Even in the summer her family came too see her and from the gist of it I felt like they were amazed that she's been able too hold down a job.

I spoke with the owner today at the shop, we sat down and talked about it this morning. Basically the owner has a heart of gold and wants to help her out... He really doesn't want too fire her because he's afraid where she might end up. And he also feels it will impact the company too much and work won't get done.

I disagree, we can fire her and still make everything work, we are doing that right now as it is. This is the third time we've had a blow up with her. Its the third time she's shown up inebriated in the morning. I don't care if she has mental or emotional problems that is not my issue. My problem is she won't listen too me, she's constantly confrontation and if she shows up drunk she is not only a danger to herself but a danger to others.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 07:15 PM   #14
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Like someone said higher up, document EVERYTHING she does (or doesn't) in writing.

Showing up drunk, even in syndicated environment is a big no-no. Something fishy with her still being there... maybe there iS some shenanigans going on with the boss.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 07:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Employees With Mental and Emotional Problems

isn't that everybody where you work ?


or why would anyone work there
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 08:52 PM   #16
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I spoke with the owner today at the shop, we sat down and talked about it this morning. Basically the owner has a heart of gold and wants to help her out... He really doesn't want too fire her because he's afraid where she might end up. And he also feels it will impact the company too much and work won't get done.
Yeah, I thought that might be the case, he is trying to help her but at the same time he is not because he ends up letting her have her way with things. From what you wrote she actually needs help, but it needs to be something else besides the job. If she can't listen or understand what needs to be done it is a big problem specially with the tools available in the factory.

I don't think there is any special relationship between her and the owner. From what I saw you write in other threads, he is a good person, but not a good administrator.

You can document everything she is doing of course, but I imagine there is already something recorded about her. Here in Brazil if a worker gets 3 warnings (as in an official letter) in a short period of time (I think it is 6 months) the person can be fired without any legal problems. I don't think she would understand you giving a warning like that though.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 10:08 PM   #17
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She built this to right? It's tooooooooooooooo much.

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Old Jan 13, 2019, 08:55 AM   #18
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Yeah, I thought that might be the case, he is trying to help her but at the same time he is not because he ends up letting her have her way with things. From what you wrote she actually needs help, but it needs to be something else besides the job. If she can't listen or understand what needs to be done it is a big problem specially with the tools available in the factory.

I don't think there is any special relationship between her and the owner. From what I saw you write in other threads, he is a good person, but not a good administrator.

You can document everything she is doing of course, but I imagine there is already something recorded about her. Here in Brazil if a worker gets 3 warnings (as in an official letter) in a short period of time (I think it is 6 months) the person can be fired without any legal problems. I don't think she would understand you giving a warning like that though.
In Alberta the labor code to fire someone is a step process unless there's a serious cause for the dismissal:

Verbal Warning
Writen Warning
Suspension
Termination

Of course in that order. But I think it comes down to the type of people that are hired at the company. They don't really want people like me who can think for ourselves and who need no help at all in our duties. We have a massive history of employees who I could write books on from the sheer drama and or stupidity that transpired at the company.

But the owner seems to be on the lookout for hard luck cases all the time. The current new hire was living in her car before she started working for us. But so far she's been a great worker without any drama. She may quit though as she's informed me that the environment with the people at the shop is getting too her... I hope she doesn't as her leaving would really hurt us, we'd be down to one person on our stain team.

We are currently hiring and I will be in on the interviews but I doubt what I say will matter...

Monday I am re-training the crazy alcoholic.... I have zero faith.
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Old Jan 13, 2019, 09:27 AM   #19
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She's ****ing the boss. That's the only explanation. And that's exactly what my dad would have said if one of his underlings wasn't listening to him yet his boss kept them on.

My dad lost a couple of jobs in his time...
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Old Jan 13, 2019, 01:30 PM   #20
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I'd assign her to drive someplace in a company vehicle and then place a call with the local constabulary regarding a drunk driver in said company vehicle. Problem should correct itself.
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Old Jan 13, 2019, 01:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapatingjaky View Post
In Alberta the labor code to fire someone is a step process unless there's a serious cause for the dismissal:

Verbal Warning
Writen Warning
Suspension
Termination

Of course in that order. But I think it comes down to the type of people that are hired at the company. They don't really want people like me who can think for ourselves and who need no help at all in our duties. We have a massive history of employees who I could write books on from the sheer drama and or stupidity that transpired at the company.

But the owner seems to be on the lookout for hard luck cases all the time. The current new hire was living in her car before she started working for us. But so far she's been a great worker without any drama. She may quit though as she's informed me that the environment with the people at the shop is getting too her... I hope she doesn't as her leaving would really hurt us, we'd be down to one person on our stain team.

We are currently hiring and I will be in on the interviews but I doubt what I say will matter...

Monday I am re-training the crazy alcoholic.... I have zero faith.

This right here is one reason people like the mental chick need to be fired immediately.. He will lose good employees due to other's bad attitudes that go unchecked, are allowed to continue working with such attitudes, poor performance, and aggressive behavior.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 09:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
This right here is one reason people like the mental chick need to be fired immediately.. He will lose good employees due to other's bad attitudes that go unchecked, are allowed to continue working with such attitudes, poor performance, and aggressive behavior.
We had that happen once already, one of our best workers left because of the drinking buddy staying on full time. That worker got overlooked for a promotion while it was discovered that the drinking buddy was being paid more then anyone at the shop. At the time the drinking buddy had been with us 3 months, myself 4 years and the other worker 5 years.

This morning first thing I had a run in with her....

Me: I am going to have so and so help you in the sanding room this morning since there's a lot to get through.
Her: You don't need too tell me, I can see that, I told you not too state the obvious.



Yet I can't do anything.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 10:12 AM   #23
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I've fired many people in my past. At least in the USA, most big companies are too scared to fire anyone on the spot unless it's some gross violation. With that, you have to take some time and document the employee's behavior. I start a file (electronic file that is) and start documenting the behavior/issues over the course of a few weeks. Typically, when the information is provided to the next level management, it's more than enough for them not to be able to dispute. However, you have to had hard data (i.e. missing deadlines, being late, etc), not 'subjective' data.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 07:44 PM   #24
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Definitely document like crazy, but be careful how you word things.

It's best to simply assume that your documentation will become exhibits in a future wrongful termination lawsuit.
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 12:03 PM   #25
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How drunk is she showing up? Maybe it warrants a call to your local PD if she's driving drunk. Don't know what your laws look like, most states are at .08 and I think Utah is dropping that to .04. Might be worth it to try and get a breathalyzer on her.
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 02:25 PM   #26
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I'll post something here later tonight, the last two days have been ****ing nuts.....
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