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Old Feb 14, 2005, 03:47 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM
That's one V8 too many...

large displacement american V8's are so horribly inefficant

Italian and German V8's however...
I dunno - a 428 7.0L LS7 corvette engine at 500bhp getting 16 to 22mpg doesn't sound too inefficient to me.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 03:49 PM   #152
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 03:59 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by curio
I dunno - a 428 7.0L LS7 corvette engine at 500bhp getting 16 to 22mpg doesn't sound too inefficient to me.
A 1.6l 4 cylinder putting out 160hp? thats 100hp/liter

Versus a 500hp 7 liter? Yeah... real efficiant use of displacement there. (71hp/liter)

Or if you want to get real extreme, RX-7, 250hp, 1.3liter, 192hp/liter...

WRX STi, 300hp, 2.5 liter... 120hp/liter.

Or a little differant, Stage 2 WRX... 310 chp, 2.0 liter... 155hp/liter

And back to V8's
1981 Ferrari 208 GTS, 2.9l V8, 240hp... 82hp/liter... that's still a better hp/displacement ratio

2001 BMW M5 394 Horsepower, 4.9 liter... 79hp/liter, still better.

And for really bad...
latest Camero SS... 5.7 liter, 325hp 57hp/liter




Lets see now... American car manufacturers still working with old mindsets, creating engines that really arent much differant from their former engines, whereas europe and japan sqeeze out every little bit of power they possibly can... Typical american mentality, Bigger is better, when in many cases, it is, but comparitivly, not so much better... And when size is close, the "lets make it bigger and rely on only that" fails.



I'm not saying american V8's are bad persay, But they are old, and US car manufacturers need to rethink what they are doing with their large displacement engines.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 04:01 PM   #154
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Come on titanium -- what you said is a HUGE blanket statement. And comparing US cars to Euro cars is like apples and oranges just for the price difference alone.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 04:10 PM   #155
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Come on titanium -- what you said is a HUGE blanket statement. And comparing US cars to Euro cars is like apples and oranges just for the price difference alone.
Oh, the LS7 comes from that new Z06, that's not exactly a cheap car... If you are going to toss in americas most expensive sports cars... then moderately priced european and cheaper japanese cars definatly can be tossed into the mix.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 04:15 PM   #156
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Oh, the LS7 comes from that new Z06, that's not exactly a cheap car... If you are going to toss in americas most expensive sports cars... then moderately priced european and cheaper japanese cars definatly can be tossed into the mix.
No, your right -- to the average person a 60K usd car is expensive but I challenge you to find one european car for 60K that has comparable performance.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 04:17 PM   #157
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i would never rally my baby... This however...
*snip pic*

Not that I'm calling that a POS, but what would make for a "good POS" rally car??
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 04:24 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by switchWRX
No, your right -- to the average person a 60K usd car is expensive but I challenge you to find one european car for 60K that has comparable performance.
Euopean? No... Japanese... oh god yes.


You have to realize though, an expensive american car is $60k, an expensive european car is $150k.

If you want to compare price... you really arent going to get much of a better performing european or american car than the Z06. But when you start comparing the viper... then the pricerange gets jacked up and suddenly, a 997 Carrera S is in the same range, and it would trounce the viper.


For price/performance, the corvette is a cheap car.

Once the skyline comes to the US though, it will have BIG BIG competition... and get beat, if we are going to see what's rumored... 450hp AWD G35 (renamed the Nissan R35)

I would much rather see a body more reminescent of the R34 though
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 06:18 PM   #159
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Isn't she just beautiful?
WTF that looks just like RaceAbout 2000 with a few changes



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Old Feb 14, 2005, 06:37 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM
Lets see now... American car manufacturers still working with old mindsets, creating engines that really arent much differant from their former engines, whereas europe and japan sqeeze out every little bit of power they possibly can... Typical american mentality, Bigger is better, when in many cases, it is, but comparitivly, not so much better... And when size is close, the "lets make it bigger and rely on only that" fails.



I'm not saying american V8's are bad persay, But they are old, and US car manufacturers need to rethink what they are doing with their large displacement engines.


The larger the displacement, the more difficult is is to maintain the ratio of hp/liter.

When you mention that "USA" companies are using "old" technologies, I would love to hear your theories, specifically, in what you are talking about. With the mega-mergers of Ford and Jaguar, Chrysler and Mecedes, about the only lexicons left are Toyota(lexus), Nissan (Infiniti), and Honda(Acura).

In ytour quest to paint USA car comapnies as "old and outdated" You've just created an argument that is not only ridiculous, but is easily defeatable.

Dodge SRT 2.4 liter 240 hp
2004 Toypta Celica GT 1.8 Liter 140 hp

Gee, I guess toyota uses old technology

As far as using larger V-8's, losing a little in hp/liter, it is still possible to gain in HP/lb. It's the final performance of the vehicle that matters. HP/Liter is part of the total equation, but is in no way representative of the final solution.

There are "super-cars" beyond the scope of affordability that break the rules on both sides of the pond. Lets ignore those, and instead concentrate on every-day drivers, say up to 100,000 US.

You'll find that all manufactures are using the most advanced technologies the price of the car allows, because thay all have access to the same information.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 07:29 PM   #161
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Mmk, this has gone way off topic.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 09:16 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM
A 1.6l 4 cylinder putting out 160hp? thats 100hp/liter

Versus a 500hp 7 liter? Yeah... real efficiant use of displacement there. (71hp/liter)

Or if you want to get real extreme, RX-7, 250hp, 1.3liter, 192hp/liter...

WRX STi, 300hp, 2.5 liter... 120hp/liter.

Or a little differant, Stage 2 WRX... 310 chp, 2.0 liter... 155hp/liter

And back to V8's
1981 Ferrari 208 GTS, 2.9l V8, 240hp... 82hp/liter... that's still a better hp/displacement ratio

2001 BMW M5 394 Horsepower, 4.9 liter... 79hp/liter, still better.

And for really bad...
latest Camero SS... 5.7 liter, 325hp 57hp/liter




Lets see now... American car manufacturers still working with old mindsets, creating engines that really arent much differant from their former engines, whereas europe and japan sqeeze out every little bit of power they possibly can... Typical american mentality, Bigger is better, when in many cases, it is, but comparitivly, not so much better... And when size is close, the "lets make it bigger and rely on only that" fails.



I'm not saying american V8's are bad persay, But they are old, and US car manufacturers need to rethink what they are doing with their large displacement engines.

Man, some of guys can be real punks, I simply post my car, and out everyone comes with hp/L, and pushrods suck? WTF?

Wtf does it matter if you have 100hp/L. only to have 1.6L, the car is still slow. And only one of those has more hp as mine (350btw stock, not 325, yes they're underrated. and the later models make closer to 370-380hp) and none even come close to same hp as the Ls7.

Comparing modded engines is pointless, you can easily get more than 500whp out of an Ls1 simply by adding a turbo at only 9psi (for you people that like to think omg 20psi makes tons of power). That's 625hp at the crank (at least, if not more, accounting for drivetrain loss). OMG that's 109hp/L wtf, V8's can't make that much power?!?!, add a cam (rev easily to 7000+rpms) some bolt ons, the motor makes even more.

Let's say you put my take my 5.7L ls1 vs oh, i dunno, a Twin turbo 3.0L DOHC (like in a 3000gt or 300zx) making 320hp. Tell me this, is it really more efficient if the engine is physically larger, and much heavier? For example, you can put a 5.7L LS1 into a miata and maintain 50/50 weight distribution simply by adding some fuel to the gas tank. You can't even fit a 3.0L dohc into them, not to mention how much more the engine weighs. The LS2 weighs less than the LS1 at 6.0L and in turn the LS7 weighs even less (phsyical size being pretty much the same, as it's still a small block)

FYI, the 5.7L DOHC engine made for the corvette by Lotus. made 400hp and 385tq, less than the C5 Z06 makes at 405hp and 400tq. Ahother FYI, OHC motors have been around as long as pushrod motors, they're just as "old technology" as the pushrod design is. So I'm not sure what you mean by them being "old"

The reason the japanese use such small motors there is that their insurance is based upon the size of the engine, so they make small engines with good hp output, it's simply matter of economy.

And yes, bigger is better, in terms of HP. Bigger displacement will always be able to make more power. Period.

Sorry to hijack the thread, just lots of misinformation and ignorance going on here.
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 09:23 PM   #163
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 10:19 PM   #164
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Managed to find a pic of the back of my cabrio.. here it is, the other cabrio pics are on the 2nd page of this thread.

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Old Feb 14, 2005, 10:23 PM   #165
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Teh Skyhawk PWNS!!!!! OMG PUSHRODS it has AUTOMATIC! made in teh USA >1 HP per litre
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 10:29 PM   #166
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Bigger displacement will always be able to make more power. Period.
There's no replacement for displacement
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Old Feb 14, 2005, 10:48 PM   #167
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Dodge SRT 2.4 liter 240 hp
2004 Toypta Celica GT 1.8 Liter 140 hp


ya but srt is a turbo charge motor and the Gt is not.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 03:21 AM   #168
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love the cookie-cutters, though i prefer mine.





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Old Feb 15, 2005, 04:28 AM   #169
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It's an R32... 250HP AWD. 5.8s 0-60 14s 1/4 mile. Top speed ~160 (Governed)

I love the "it's just a Golf" line. Especially after I'm a speck in the distance...
For the unbeliever, it's actually a 3.2-litre, 240 horse V-6. Not too shabby. http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/golf_r32.asp
Actually, it varies from site to site, but not much: http://www.allcars.org/car.html?id=26

Too bad they made it look like your average economy car, because this thing actually kicks ass.

Anyway, http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/nissan_350z.asp
care to race?

Preying on Volkswagens and ricers has become a hobby of mine.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 11:08 AM   #170
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The golf's fast, but not too much fun in the twisties - too much grip, not enough chassis balance. That's why it gets medicore reviews. But then if you don't do trackdays its
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 11:19 AM   #171
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Anyway, http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/nissan_350z.asp
care to race?

Preying on Volkswagens and ricers has become a hobby of mine.
Are you saying you own a V6 350z? If so, lets see some pics.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 01:09 PM   #172
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Are you saying you own a V6 350z? If so, lets see some pics.
indeed, this is a "pics or stfu" thread.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:20 PM   #173
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MMM.....350Z. If I was in the market for a new car, I would probably take a 350Z or a G35 over an Evo or STi. The EVO/STi might perform better, but to the average person who knows nothing about cars, the STi/Evos are just another car. The 350Z on the other hand gets some looks. Plus, the 350Z has a 3.5L N/A V6 that pushes 287Hp @ 62k Rpm while the Evo has a TCed 1.8L Inline 4 that pushes [email protected] 65k Rpm. The Evo would be a little faster in the 0-62 Mph ( .3 sec ) though. The Evo/Sti are also AWD, but I dont know how that does for handling on road. Plus Nissan > Mitsu. Period.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:23 PM   #174
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MMM.....350Z. If I was in the market for a new car, I would probably take a 350Z or a G35 over an Evo or STi. The EVO/STi might perform better, but to the average person who knows nothing about cars, the STi/Evos are just another car. The 350Z on the other hand gets some looks. Plus, the 350Z has a 3.5L N/A V6 that pushes 287Hp @ 62k Rpm while the Evo has a TCed 1.8L Inline 4 that pushes [email protected] 65k Rpm. The Evo would be a little faster in the 0-62 Mph ( .3 sec ) though. The Evo/Sti are also AWD, but I dont know how that does for handling on road. Plus Nissan > Mitsu. Period.
STi or EVO vs. a 350Z or G35?
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:29 PM   #175
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:30 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by switchWRX
STi or EVO vs. a 350Z or G35?
Oh, i'm sure they'll be faster, but for street driving, i'd rather have a 350z, simply because it just looks better and its not like the 350z is slow
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:32 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by HitmanCN47
MMM.....350Z. If I was in the market for a new car, I would probably take a 350Z or a G35 over an Evo or STi. The EVO/STi might perform better, but to the average person who knows nothing about cars, the STi/Evos are just another car. The 350Z on the other hand gets some looks. Plus, the 350Z has a 3.5L N/A V6 that pushes 287Hp @ 62k Rpm while the Evo has a TCed 1.8L Inline 4 that pushes [email protected] 65k Rpm. The Evo would be a little faster in the 0-62 Mph ( .3 sec ) though. The Evo/Sti are also AWD, but I dont know how that does for handling on road. Plus Nissan > Mitsu. Period.
62k and 65k eh?
Wow, nice engines.
The Evo comes with 2.0L turbo's from 260Bhp - 400 Bhp...
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:38 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by HitmanCN47
Oh, i'm sure they'll be faster, but for street driving, i'd rather have a 350z, simply because it just looks better and its not like the 350z is slow
Depends what you like I guess, I think the 350z looks feminine - I much prefer the angry look of a 4 door STi or EVO, but thats just my preference.

No, your right the 350Z isn't "slow" but for the money it is -- on a track day I killed a 350Z with my then STOCK WRX. I just find most people driving driving 350Zs are men going through a middle crisis -- bald old dudes trying to race me at stoplights.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:40 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM
Oh, the LS7 comes from that new Z06, that's not exactly a cheap car... If you are going to toss in americas most expensive sports cars... then moderately priced european and cheaper japanese cars definatly can be tossed into the mix.
It is a helluva lot cheaper then any Ferrari that you could buy with similar displacement.
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Old Feb 15, 2005, 02:41 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by switchWRX
No, your right -- to the average person a 60K usd car is expensive but I challenge you to find one european car for 60K that has comparable performance.
QFT
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