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Old Jan 19, 2021, 09:48 AM   #4921
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KAC
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
Woke up feeling fine today. Kiddo needed help with her computer this morning, and I told her to pretend she was just like the rest of her class, and didn't have in house tech support.

Sitting here waiting to see what it's going to be like for me. So far my buddy that tested positive said he's just tired, and can't smell or taste anything.
When is your testing date? I can't believe you need to wait in a queue to get tested. Here we just walk in and get tested. They also already vaccinated 1.3 mil people / 10 mil.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:35 AM   #4922
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When is your testing date? I can't believe you need to wait in a queue to get tested. Here we just walk in and get tested. They also already vaccinated 1.3 mil people / 10 mil.
There aren't any slots open in my area. Will have to wait until later this week, and call my Dr to get a scheduled test. For now I live in my office and guest bedroom.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:40 AM   #4923
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There aren't any slots open in my area. Will have to wait until later this week, and call my Dr to get a scheduled test. For now I live in my office and guest bedroom.

Greasy, where you guys mostly outside or was it a lot of indoors stuff.


My brother got my close friend group frisbee golf pucks as an outdoor activity. Seems safe but IDK.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 10:52 AM   #4924
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Woke up feeling fine today. Kiddo needed help with her computer this morning, and I told her to pretend she was just like the rest of her class, and didn't have in house tech support.

Sitting here waiting to see what it's going to be like for me. So far my buddy that tested positive said he's just tired, and can't smell or taste anything.
That's how it began with me, felt fine for the first week after exposure, then it begins to creep in on you. Eventually you feel it hard. Everybody hopes they are asymptomatic, but almost nobody is. The virus takes awhile before you feel it, hell for the first few days of infection your body isn't even fighting it yet because it's deciding what to do.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 11:39 AM   #4925
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Also, despite your own decisions, I feel for your regarding quarantine. I had to live in a room for just 4 days last oct/early nov and although I was negative, IT SUCKED. I could feel myself start to devolve.



Urgent care got me a test (In NJ). No appointment.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 12:50 PM   #4926
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Greasy, where you guys mostly outside or was it a lot of indoors stuff.


My brother got my close friend group frisbee golf pucks as an outdoor activity. Seems safe but IDK.
Mix of both, but he rode with me, so I had a solid 4 hours of exposure in the truck. The urgent care in town allows testing without an appointment. I will go get tested later this week.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 01:21 PM   #4927
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Mix of both, but he rode with me, so I had a solid 4 hours of exposure in the truck. The urgent care in town allows testing without an appointment. I will go get tested later this week.
The sooner the better buddy. Hoping for a fast negative for you
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 01:29 PM   #4928
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We got, in the form of a survey, a questionare at work asking if we would be willing to have the vaccine shot as soon as it was made available. I replied Yes
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 01:49 PM   #4929
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Mix of both, but he rode with me, so I had a solid 4 hours of exposure in the truck. The urgent care in town allows testing without an appointment. I will go get tested later this week.

No walk in? I was able to walk in that day and get one.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 02:24 PM   #4930
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Scheduled one through my primary care provider for 1:30 tomorrow. That will be day 5 of initial exposure. If they do the rapid test, and it's negative, I'm getting another a few days later just to be sure. I was with him on Friday through Monday, so I should be at day 5 tomorrow right? He was short of breath Friday night, and we thought it was an anxiety attack.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 03:44 PM   #4931
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Scheduled one through my primary care provider for 1:30 tomorrow. That will be day 5 of initial exposure. If they do the rapid test, and it's negative, I'm getting another a few days later just to be sure. I was with him on Friday through Monday, so I should be at day 5 tomorrow right? He was short of breath Friday night, and we thought it was an anxiety attack.
Tomorrow is right in the sweet spot of 4-5 days to test.



I got a PCR test at my urgent care, ymmv about what they offer.



Would you go for the PCR over the rapid if you had a choice? I had the PCR, which pissed me off at the time but trusting the test when the result came in ended up being big, especially as I work in person out of the home.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 04:05 PM   #4932
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best of luck for you, Greasy. Sending lots of good wishes around the globe.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:12 PM   #4933
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best of luck for you, Greasy. Sending lots of good wishes around the globe.
Thanks man. I feel fine, but I'm so stressed about it that I've completely lost my apatite. Last thing I need to do right now too. Taking zinc, D3, and C.

I'm not sure what test they will do Thur. If it's PCR then I'm fine with a negative result, and feel safe to go back to the new normal we're all used to. If it's a rapid test and negative I may get another next Monday just to be safe.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:20 PM   #4934
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Woke up feeling fine today. Kiddo needed help with her computer this morning, and I told her to pretend she was just like the rest of her class, and didn't have in house tech support.
You should have just let KAC do a discord call with her so she can get that authentic tech support flavor.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:41 PM   #4935
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You should have just let KAC do a discord call with her so she can get that authentic tech support flavor.


She managed it well. All good on her end.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:41 PM   #4936
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The sooner the better buddy. Hoping for a fast negative for you
Actually, he's right to wait a little while. They recommend for the most accurate testing to wait at least a week after exposure before you get tested. I myself tested 4 days after exposure and was negative, but then 4-5 days after that I began to feel symptoms and got tested again...positive.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:43 PM   #4937
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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
Scheduled one through my primary care provider for 1:30 tomorrow. That will be day 5 of initial exposure. If they do the rapid test, and it's negative, I'm getting another a few days later just to be sure. I was with him on Friday through Monday, so I should be at day 5 tomorrow right? He was short of breath Friday night, and we thought it was an anxiety attack.
YMMV, but with me my symptoms started to appear around day 9-10 after exposure. I was so close to my two weeks of isolation that I thought I was in the clear and then...cough, and body aches started to creep in. I knew I had it then even before the second test.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:46 PM   #4938
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Thanks man. I feel fine, but I'm so stressed about it that I've completely lost my apatite. Last thing I need to do right now too. Taking zinc, D3, and C.

I'm not sure what test they will do Thur. If it's PCR then I'm fine with a negative result, and feel safe to go back to the new normal we're all used to. If it's a rapid test and negative I may get another next Monday just to be safe.
Appetite loss is one of the symptoms...

Hope you are fine too but if you were in a truck for 4 hours with a covid positive friend I don't see how you wouldn't have it.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 05:53 PM   #4939
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Appetite loss is one of the symptoms...

Hope you are fine too but if you were in a truck for 4 hours with a covid positive friend I don't see how you wouldn't have it.
I don't see how I couldn't either. Gonna find out Thur if I don't start feeling like crud before then. When I get stressed out, I don't eat. I pushed the test back a day for good measure.
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Old Jan 19, 2021, 07:52 PM   #4940
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I don't see how I couldn't either. Gonna find out Thur if I don't start feeling like crud before then. When I get stressed out, I don't eat. I pushed the test back a day for good measure.
What's frustrating about it is the slow pace of the whole thing. It takes days/weeks after exposure before you feel it (or not if lucky). It takes weeks to get over it once you have it (or longer). It's not like the Flu where it hits you fast and hard (in a matter of hours with the flu, you know you have it but the flu only lasts 2-3 days.)
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Old Jan 20, 2021, 09:10 AM   #4941
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So crazy how it impacts diff people. I'm still 100%. My buddy who has it already has his smell and taste back, and aside from being tired, he says he feels fine.

Tomorrow is test day for me and the rest of us. So far none of us show any symptoms at all other than my anxiety going through the roof. I took one of my emergency panic attack pills last night, and 30 min later I was starving. Slept like a baby last night. Those lorazepam really do their job. This is the lowest dose too.

When she prescribed them to me she said I would probably never have to take one, since it's all a mental game. She was right up until yesterday. Last thing I need right now is to be stressed out of my mind. I don't like taking them, but by God I will until I know I'm clear, and no longer a risk to my wife and kids.
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Old Jan 20, 2021, 10:06 AM   #4942
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Quote:
"Out of 47,780 people who were discharged from hospital in the first wave, 29.4 per cent were readmitted to hospital within 140 days, and 12.3 per cent of the total died.

The current cut-off point for recording Covid deaths is 28 days after a positive test, so it may mean thousands more people should be included in the coronavirus death statistics."

Research by Leicester University and the Office for National Statistics (UK gov't)

https://yahoo.com/news/almost-third-...180255388.html

https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01...al-five-months (pay wall)
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Old Jan 20, 2021, 12:28 PM   #4943
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Quote:
Rogue antibodies could be driving severe COVID-19
Quote:
Evidence is growing that self-attacking ‘autoantibodies’ could be the key to understanding some of the worst cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Roxanne Khamsi

Medical workers wearing protective gear treat a COVID-19 patient lying on his front on a bed in an intensive-care unit
Physicians treat a person with COVID-19 at a hospital’s intensive-care unit in the Czech Republic. Credit: Gabriel Kuchta/Getty

More than a year after COVID-19 emerged, many mysteries persist about the disease: why do some people get so much sicker than others? Why does lung damage sometimes continue to worsen well after the body seems to have cleared the SARS-CoV-2 virus? And what is behind the extended, multi-organ illness that lasts for months in people with ‘long COVID’? A growing number of studies suggest that some of these questions might be explained by the immune system mistakenly turning against the body — a phenomenon known as autoimmunity.

“This is a rapidly evolving area, but all the evidence is converging,” says Aaron Ring, an immunologist at the Yale School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut.

Early in the pandemic, researchers suggested that some people have an overactive immune response to COVID infection. Immune-system signalling proteins called cytokines can ramp up to dangerous levels, leading to ‘cytokine storms’ and damage to the body’s own cells. Clinical trials have now shown that some drugs that broadly dampen immune activity seem to reduce death rates in critically ill people, if administered at the right time.

But scientists studying COVID are increasingly also highlighting the role of autoantibodies: rogue antibodies that attack either elements of the body’s immune defences or specific proteins in organs such as the heart. In contrast to cytokine storms, which tend to cause systemic, short-duration problems, autoantibodies are thought to result in targeted, longer-term damage, says immunologist Akiko Iwasaki, a colleague of Ring’s at Yale.


The latest COVID research updates
Even healthy people make autoantibodies, but not generally in large amounts, and the molecules don’t usually seem to cause damage or attack the immune system.

Yet researchers also have evidence that nefarious autoantibodies do have a role in many infectious diseases.

There are several theories to explain how autoimmunity might emerge from COVID and other infections. Some people might be predisposed to producing autoantibodies that can then wreak havoc during an infection. Alternatively, infections could even trigger the production of autoantibodies. If researchers can establish the link, they might be able to come up with avenues for treatment, both for the repercussions of COVID and for other diseases caused by viruses.

Finding autoantibodies
In late September, a group led by Jean-Laurent Casanova at the Rockefeller University in New York City reported that more than 10% of 987 individuals with severe COVID-19 had antibodies that attacked and blocked the action of type 1 interferon molecules, which normally help to bolster the immune response against foreign pathogens1. That was a striking proportion, the researchers say, because people’s antibody repertoires are normally very dissimilar, and noone in a control group for the study had these antibodies. The researchers also saw the antibodies in people before their COVID-19 infection, so Casanova thinks that some people could be genetically predisposed to produce them. And the autoantibodies were more common in men than women — a possible factor in why COVID seems to hit men harder.

A patient lies on his side on a hospital bed while a healthcare worker looks at an ultrasound scan of his heart
A man with post-COVID fatigue has an ultrasound check at a hospital in Italy.Credit: Marco Di Lauro/Getty

The first evidence2 suggesting that autoantibodies against interferon might put people at higher risk of infectious disease was published in 1984, and evidence has accumulated since then, Casanova says. But now COVID is drawing more attention to the connection. “Now people understand the problem,” he says, “and all of a sudden they realize that what my lab has been doing for 25 years is actually pretty meaningful.”

Casanova is now screening 40,000 people to see how many have pre-existing autoantibodies and determine whether their distribution by age, ancestry and gender matches that of severe COVID.

Other research groups have supported Casanova’s autoantibody connection. Iwasaki, Ring and others screened 194 patients and hospital workers with varying severities of COVID for a wide range of autoantibodies. Their study, which was posted online in December and has not yet been peer reviewed, found a higher prevalence of autoantibodies against the immune system in infected individuals than in uninfected people3. They found autoantibodies that attacked B cells, as well as some that attacked interferon.

But this study also suggested that SARS-CoV-2 might cause the body to generate autoantibodies that attack its own tissues. Some of the infected individuals had autoantibodies against proteins in their blood vessels, heart and brain. This was particularly intriguing because many of the symptoms seen in the pandemic are linked to these organs. It’s unclear whether COVID-19 infection caused the body to start making these autoantibodies or whether infected people had them already. Iwasaki says they are hoping to study other cases to establish whether there is a causal link; that would require obtaining more blood samples from before people become infected.


Why do COVID death rates seem to be falling?
Researchers have also found autoantibodies against molecules called phospholipids, adds Michel Goldman, an immunologist at the Free University of Brussels and former director of Europe’s Innovative Medicines Initiative. The largest such study, published in November, found that 52% of 172 people hospitalized with COVID-19 had these autoantibodies4. “That’s a real concern,” he says, because some phospholipids are known to have a role in controlling blood clotting, which goes awry in COVID-19.

This month, another study5, not yet peer reviewed, reported finding autoantibodies that might be spurred by COVID-19. David Lee, an emergency-medicine doctor at New York University (NYU) Langone Health, partnered with NYU microbiologist Ana Rodriguez and others to analyse serum samples from 86 people hospitalized with COVID-19. They looked for autoantibodies against proteins such as annexin A2, which is of particular interest because it helps to keep cell membranes stable and ensures the integrity of small blood vessels in the lungs. The researchers found a significantly higher average level of anti-annexin A2 antibodies in people who had died than in those with non-critical illness. As with other studies, it’s still unclear whether these autoantibodies existed before infection with the coronavirus.

An MRI scan of a COVID-19 patients lungs showing areas of black and white
MRI scans, taken in a Paris clinic, show how COVID-19 damaged a patient’s lungs.Credit: Nathan Laine/Bloomberg/Getty

The autoantibody theory might explain some of the delay in the onset of severe symptoms in COVID-19. If evoked by the cellular damage and inflammation stoked by viral infection, as Lee and others think, autoantibodies would take a couple of weeks to build up in the body. This, he says, could be why much of the damage to tissues such as the lungs appears so long after a person develops symptoms such as fever. In this way, autoimmunity might be the real culprit behind the deadly destruction that continues after the coronavirus has cleared. “Clinicians are thinking, ‘Oh, this virus is so deadly, we’ve got to get rid of the virus.’ But then when you talk to the pathologists, they’re like, ‘Yeah, so we’re seeing all this damage, but not seeing much virus,’” Lee says.

An infectious idea
Over the years, scientists have identified numerous instances of infections generating autoimmunity. Some reports suggest that infection with the malaria parasite can cause the body to begin attacking red blood cells, causing anaemia. And Epstein–Barr virus — which causes glandular fever (also known as mononucleosis) — has been implicated in dozens of autoimmune illnesses, including lupus. Finding a rock-solid connection can be tough, because it’s difficult to show whether the infections are the cause of autoimmune disorders or whether they crop up in the body for another reason, says Anish Suri, president of Cue Biopharma, a company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, that is researching therapies to counter autoimmunity.

Strep throat is a well-established example. If left untreated, this illness, which is caused by the bacterium Streptococcus pyogenes, can prompt an autoimmune reaction, known as rheumatic fever, that attacks organs and can lead to permanent heart damage. Other bacteria are also likely to lead to autoimmunity: the stomach bug Helicobacter pylori is thought to cause a disorder called immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP), in which the body starts destroying platelets in the blood. In some people with ITP, treatment with antibiotics against H. pylori improves platelet count, suggesting that the drugs help to reverse the autoimmune condition.


Traitorous COVID antibodies and fast-spreading variant
Yehuda Shoenfeld, head of the Zabludowicz Center for Autoimmune Diseases in Tel-Hashomer, Israel, suspects that COVID-19 might cause autoimmune disease. Last June, he published an article about COVID-19 and autoimmunity6, and cited an April 2020 case report of a 65-year-old woman with COVID-19 whose platelet count dropped precipitously and who required a platelet transfusion7. Although there is not enough evidence to prove that this was ITP, there have been a few dozen other cases of ITP linked to COVID-19 in the literature8.

Some people might have a genetic predisposition to developing an autoimmune reaction in response to infection. For example, certain individuals have DNA that encodes the immune-system protein HLA-DRB1, which Shoenfeld says is “notorious” for its link to autoimmunity. A related protein, HLA-DQB1, is strongly suspected to have put individuals receiving a now-discontinued vaccine against the H1N1 ‘swine flu’ at risk of developing a form of narcolepsy that is thought to result from an autoimmune attack on neurons in the brain.

Another way pathogens might trigger immunity is if a part of them coincidentally resembles human cell components. For example, S. pyogenes has an ‘M’ protein that mimics certain proteins found in the human heart. This is known as molecular mimicry. In their June 2020 article, Shoenfeld and his collaborators found similarities between numerous short sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which the virus uses to enter the cell, and human proteins. Others caution, however, that this might not have meaningful effects. “This is not to say that mimicry by pathogens is not a real thing,” says Brian Wasik, a virologist at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. “But most instances of such mimicry have been defined by testing how the pathogens’ proteins actually react to antibodies in the lab.”

Another theory is that inflammation caused by an infection might prime the immune system to mistakenly see the spewed contents of destroyed cells as ‘foreign’ and create autoantibodies against these cellular pieces, says Leona Gilbert, a molecular biologist who is a consultant at a diagnostic company named Te?ted Oy in Finland, which has developed and sells a test for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies. The tissue damage that accompanies inflammation is a recipe for the body to begin attacking itself, Gilbert says: “That just precipitates the whole event in developing autoimmune conditions,” she says.

Lee, the researcher who studied annexin A2, says the evidence that infections can give rise to autoimmunity is not receiving enough attention. “It should make us rethink dozens of diseases, if not hundreds,” he says. “I’m like, ‘How is anybody not seeing this?’”

Rethinking treatments
If an autoimmunity element exists either in predisposing people to COVID-19 or in the fallout from the infection, there might be treatment implications. Casanova says that in cases in which pre-existing autoimmunity against interferon might put people at greater risk of falling ill, then blood tests for autoantibodies, which are becoming more available in research laboratories and university hospitals, could help to identify them.

And if these people become infected with SARS-CoV-2, Casanova suggests, they could receive supplementation as early as is practical with interferon-β, which is not as prone to attack from the immune system as are other interferons. Last November, a preliminary study found that an inhaled form of interferon-β seemed to improve the clinical condition of people with COVID, prompting a larger trial of this therapy9.


The lasting misery of coronavirus long-haulers
Interferon replacements are intended to boost the activity of a weakened immune system. But if autoantibodies attack organs such as the lungs and brain, a blunt strategy for combating them might be to suppress the immune system.

Even before autoantibodies came into focus, the idea that a cytokine storm might be a culprit meant that studies were under way to see whether immunosuppressive steroids such as dexamethasone, or the arthritis drugs tocilizumab and sarilumab, could be used to calm immune systems set awry by COVID. The World Health Organization now “strongly recommends” the use of dexamethasone in severe cases, and the United Kingdom is using the arthritis drugs for people with severe COVID after a clinical trial on 7 January10 suggested that they cut death rates in patients in intensive care.

A packet of dexamethasone ampoules
The immunosuppressive steroid dexamethasone is used to treat people with COVID-19 who are in critical condition.Credit: EFE/Alamy

Physicians emphasize that, whether they are used to quell a cytokine storm or to try to address autoimmunity, administration of the drugs needs to be carefully timed so that they don’t interfere with the body’s battle against SARS-CoV-2. Suri notes that broad-spectrum immunosuppressants make the body more prone to infection. His company is one of a handful conducting preclinical work to develop engineered molecules that go after specific immunity pathways, rather than suppress immunity across the board.

Lee, meanwhile, says that if autoantibodies against annexin A2 and other proteins prove to be a consequence of COVID-19, then it might make sense to study what happens when patients’ plasma is run through a process that clears these antibodies out before returning the plasma.

Scientists are very interested in understanding whether autoimmunity is linked to long COVID, too. “First of all, we don’t know if these autoantibodies contribute to long COVID, but if they do, what is the longevity? How long will they last? How long is the body going to keep producing those antibodies?” Ring says. But answering these questions is a complicated endeavour, because people naturally produce many different kinds of antibody, including autoantibodies.

Ring hopes that research into viruses and autoimmunity will eventually get much-needed answers for individuals with post-viral autoimmunity, which might include those with COVID-19. “These patients are just so frustrated,” he says. “Their physicians don’t believe them and so they get psych referrals. Just to be able to tell these people they have a real disease and here’s what’s causing it — that would be really meaningful.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/d415...D2%20infection.
.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 06:25 PM   #4944
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Two of the guys got rapid tests today. Both negative. Myself, and another got PCR lab tests today. Dues in 1-3 days. No symptoms from any of us yet. Fingers crossed. If I don't get this, he's either the least transmissive mofo to ever have it, or I've already had it.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 07:23 PM   #4945
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Are you sure he was positive to begin with? It's virtually impossible to be around a truly infectious individual and not get it.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 07:55 PM   #4946
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Are you sure he was positive to begin with? It's virtually impossible to be around a truly infectious individual and not get it.
Loss of smell and taste are near sure-fire symptoms.

I've been pushing ventilation/air movement as the best way to cut this down. I'm convinced it saved me from two infections so far (knock on wood). Either that or I previously had a mild case and was immune.

My advice to everyone: When having visitors, keep your HVAC fan on at home, keep your external air pumping in your car, turn on your oscillating fan at work, and always open/crack windows when practical. It's amazing to me how many restaurants I see that have ceiling fans that are turned off.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 08:09 PM   #4947
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Loss of smell and taste are near sure-fire symptoms.

I've been pushing ventilation/air movement as the best way to cut this down. I'm convinced it saved me from two infections so far (knock on wood). Either that or I previously had a mild case and was immune.

My advice to everyone: When having visitors, keep your HVAC fan on at home, keep your external air pumping in your car, turn on your oscillating fan at work, and always open/crack windows when practical. It's amazing to me how many restaurants I see that have ceiling fans that are turned off.
You go to restaurants?
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 08:30 PM   #4948
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Gf lost her taste on new years for like a day or so, she has tested negitive multiple times so yeah and i've been around her since over a week ago and nothing.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 09:12 PM   #4949
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My friend died today. He was on a respirator for two weeks and his lungs were gone. Kidneys went out and he was gone just like that. His two kids are still in grade school. I want to go to the funeral on Tuesday but I'm not sure how safe it's going to be.
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Old Jan 21, 2021, 09:35 PM   #4950
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My friend died today. He was on a respirator for two weeks and his lungs were gone. Kidneys went out and he was gone just like that. His two kids are still in grade school. I want to go to the funeral on Tuesday but I'm not sure how safe it's going to be.
**** man My condolences... that's one of my fears.
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