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Old May 1, 2004, 12:29 PM   #1
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Lotto
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Default Is HyperThreading a reason to buy Intel over Athlon 64?

I was just in a debate with this guy who is about to build a PC. He decided to go with a P4 2.8E over an Athlon 64 2800+ because he believes Hyperthreading blows away anything AMD has to offer. What do you guys think?

I personally think that hyperthreading is overly hyped and most applications out today don't utilize it. Talk to me.
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Old May 1, 2004, 12:36 PM   #2
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Yeah, HT is the Buzzword on Intel Fanboys lips, also n00bs... HT for them is like the Century Milestone, HT is all for them... Yeah... id rather have a dual Athlon Mp 1500 rig ...

Edit: As for an answer, I think, in the apps supporting HT, it will blow away AMD... yes in those apps, But i still hold my position, it's nothing a good cheap SMP rig can't do....

talkin Athlon MP here.

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Old May 1, 2004, 12:42 PM   #3
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64-bit> HT. Once applications really do use 64-bit computing, it'll be twice as fast as the processor in 32-bit computing. All HT can do is make multitasking around 25% faster.
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Old May 1, 2004, 12:43 PM   #4
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I have it and I'd have to say no
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Old May 1, 2004, 01:02 PM   #5
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ht is awesome if your trying to encode mp3s while playing farcry...
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Old May 1, 2004, 02:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkPretender
ht is awesome if your trying to encode mp3s while playing farcry...
Um, MP3 encoding isn't exacly what I'd call CPU intensive. Intel reigns supreme with digital VIDEO encoding and not necessarily audio. Don't confuse the two because they are nothing alike when it comes to encoding them.

I chose not to go with the Athlon 64 because it's memory bandwidth (nForce3 and K8T800) is inferior when it comes to efficiency compared to the Intel 875P and SiS 655TX.
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Old May 1, 2004, 02:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
64-bit> HT. Once applications really do use 64-bit computing, it'll be twice as fast as the processor in 32-bit computing. All HT can do is make multitasking around 25% faster.
although I have a p4 2.6c, I would rather have a A64, because although the hyperthreading sooths my intence add-ness, most new processors multi-task almost as well, and a smp setup multitaskes even better. Plus, 64-bit computing is the way of the future!

also, I forgot to mention, A64s rule for gaming because of there integrated memory controller. However, they suck at overclocking compared to the p4c and athalon xps
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Old May 1, 2004, 03:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
64-bit> HT. Once applications really do use 64-bit computing, it'll be twice as fast as the processor in 32-bit computing. All HT can do is make multitasking around 25% faster.

64 bit does not translate in twice as fast as 32 bit when comparing agaisnt the same speed... All it does is allow you to have more memory(and osme other good features which i do not know).... 32-bit proc max is 4gbs 64 bit = a **** load of GBS


Ht might have some potential down in the way future but for now a simple MP rig is a lot better choice as another memember has mentioned
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Old May 1, 2004, 03:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by OnceBitten
Um, MP3 encoding isn't exacly what I'd call CPU intensive. Intel reigns supreme with digital VIDEO encoding and not necessarily audio. Don't confuse the two because they are nothing alike when it comes to encoding them.

I chose not to go with the Athlon 64 because it's memory bandwidth (nForce3 and K8T800) is inferior when it comes to efficiency compared to the Intel 875P and SiS 655TX.
first off...my point was it can do the stupidest thing in the world while playing games. I once saw a benchmark praising its mp3 encoding while playing some intense game.

As for memory bandwidth...your joking right? The A64 can have up to 1200mhz of bandwidth...only limited by the chips arcitecture.

If they lowered the multipliers on those things then you could easily get much more bandwidth then the P4 any day of the week. When DDR-II becomes standard, HyperTransport (unless intel jumps on board) will reign supream in memory bandwidth over anything intel has. Having an on-chip memory controller works wonders.

Why do you think tha A64 beats all benchmarks (aside from video encoding) agains the P4? Just wait and see the 939 socket A64's come out and take the P4 to the cleaners.
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Old May 1, 2004, 07:10 PM   #10
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HT is abolutely NO GOOD for gaming, infact turning it off game me more performance, so go with 64 athlon, not to mention the Athlon64 RAPES the p4 in just about everything 3d-related
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Old May 1, 2004, 07:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
64 bit does not translate in twice as fast as 32 bit when comparing agaisnt the same speed... All it does is allow you to have more memory(and osme other good features which i do not know)
Um, those 'other good features' being, amongst other things, twice as many registers as a 32-bit x86 chip. That's a huge benefit, considering how much time is wasted copying data to and from memory just to make space in a typical 32-bit program.

AFAIR the Unreal Tournament guys said they got a big performance boost just recompiling for 64-bit, without making any specific 64-bit optimizations in the code.
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Old May 1, 2004, 08:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by OnceBitten
Um, MP3 encoding isn't exacly what I'd call CPU intensive. Intel reigns supreme with digital VIDEO encoding and not necessarily audio. Don't confuse the two because they are nothing alike when it comes to encoding them.

I chose not to go with the Athlon 64 because it's memory bandwidth (nForce3 and K8T800) is inferior when it comes to efficiency compared to the Intel 875P and SiS 655TX.
Memory bandwidth does not determine efficiency.. A64 can have a more efficient memory sub-system while only providing half the theoretical memory bandwidth, and it does.
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Old May 1, 2004, 10:29 PM   #13
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No.


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Old May 1, 2004, 10:52 PM   #14
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ugh, don't know why i read some of the posts anymore here we go again.


It depends on the programs you want to run. Intel is faster in media encodeing and smoothes out some of the bumps in windows because of hyperthreading. Athlon 64 is faster in games, math intensive apps(mathmatica for example) also some benchmarks seem to benchmark the athlon 64 higher in business applications. all really depends on your needs. We don't know if 64 bit will bring. alot of users say it will be twice as fast. I don;t believe it will be twice as fast. Yes it will be faster but not twice. IT will however allow us to have alot of ram, run our ram and data in 64bit chuncks instead of 32, allow more complex textures and polygons in games as well as more detail. 64bit aside eaither processor is going to do what you want, most word processing tasks and basic computer functions will work about the same on both intel and amd. if you do alot of media encodeing intel is still the fastest right now, Athlon 64 is faster in games. but neither is a that far behind or ahead of each other(example media encodeing is slower on Athlon 64 the intel but it's not that slow either).
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Old May 1, 2004, 10:53 PM   #15
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currently.. depends on howlong your going to keep your computer.. if 1 year then upgrade ten yes.. if longer then athlon64 would probly be a better way to go... oh and for the "n00bs" 64bit isn't processing speed it's memory access registers..
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twinke Masta
the Athlon64 RAPES the p4 in just about everything 3d-related
LOL really?? "RAPES" is not exactly the right way to describe it, unless of course you're comparing the A64 to a Willamette P4
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
64-bit> HT. Once applications really do use 64-bit computing, it'll be twice as fast as the processor in 32-bit computing.
once alot of apps are out for 64-bit, the current A64's will be kinda slow compared to what AMD has released by that time.
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:27 AM   #18
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I see in the very first post, sCoTcH started the thread off with a childish bang.

Where are you now, Gator??
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by gts007
once apps really use 64-bit, the current A64's will be kinda slow compared to what AMD has released by that time.
Same applies with Hyperthreading, too. Besides, you could just get a dual-proccessor system with two 2400+ Mobiles overclocked to 2.4 speeds, and it'll be cheaper and probably faster than a single processor with HT.
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
Same applies with Hyperthreading, too.
well obviously. Everything current will be kinda slow compared to what AMD and Intel have out by the time 64-bit is mainstream.
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:39 AM   #21
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Athlon 64 raped P4?? well no ****in' ****!
hows about P4E? why r u's getting so excited about a 64bit cpu beating a 32bit cpu?
P4E RAPES athlon64
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emilee
I see in the very first post, sCoTcH started the thread off with a childish bang.

Where are you now, Gator??
Oh Come on! i just stated my opinion, yes maybe my reply sounded a bit harsh, but i did not want to bash any Intel lovers, because intel rocks with general DCC apps, so yes, it all relies on everyones needs in the end, if youre more gaming, AMD all the way, if youre more Engineer, working with CAD usually P4 HT rocks Amd in that field, it was not my intention ti be mean or childish no way.
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Old May 2, 2004, 01:46 AM   #23
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Yeah, calling others names, ists childish? You can state your opinion in a much more elegant way. I doubt anyone takes you seriously when you talk like that. I know I dont. Grow up.
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Old May 2, 2004, 02:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emilee
Yeah, calling others names, ists childish? You can state your opinion in a much more elegant way. I doubt anyone takes you seriously when you talk like that. I know I dont. Grow up.
Don't get your panties in a twist! He softened his stance and basically is trying to be more civilized. Cut him a break.

I have seen you in a thread or two show your ass and act like a child so you should cut the holier than thou act.
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Old May 2, 2004, 09:54 AM   #25
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No its not a good enough reason.
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Old May 2, 2004, 11:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by OnceBitten
Um, MP3 encoding isn't exacly what I'd call CPU intensive. Intel reigns supreme with digital VIDEO encoding and not necessarily audio. Don't confuse the two because they are nothing alike when it comes to encoding them.

I chose not to go with the Athlon 64 because it's memory bandwidth (nForce3 and K8T800) is inferior when it comes to efficiency compared to the Intel 875P and SiS 655TX.
So you made your decision based on theoretical performance basically? Hey, if all applications used sse3 and hyperthreading, pentium 4's would crush amd cpus, and athlon 64s would be competing with celerons....(amd could possibly compete once 64 bit programs were available, since wouldn't the intel cpus have to use something like 2 32 bit numbers to emulate 1 64 bit? don't p4 cpus already do that now with 32 bit and sse, they take 2 16 bit numbers and emulate 1 32 bit and get a speed increase off the massive integer performance?)

Quote:
hows about P4E? why r u's getting so excited about a 64bit cpu beating a 32bit cpu?
P4E is still 32 bit, and athlon 64 is effectively a 32 bit cpu(and x86 versus x87 athlon xp and pentium 4) until a 64 bit operating system comes out.(and won't be fully utilized until 64 bit apps come out for that 64 bit operating system) Anyhow, if you can find a P4EE(I assume that's what you mean, since the prescott isn't any faster than northwood) around the pricec of an athlon 64, I say go for it, it'll beat it in many things.
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:37 PM   #27
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I don't get the people boasting about 64-bit technology. Show me a mainstream 64-bit OS and all these 64-bit applications to go with it. Shut up already about 64-bit, it'll be a while before that's out. Right now you live in a 32-bit world, just accept it.
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Old May 2, 2004, 12:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by OnceBitten
I don't get the people boasting about 64-bit technology. Show me a mainstream 64-bit OS and all these 64-bit applications to go with it. Shut up already about 64-bit, it'll be a while before that's out. Right now you live in a 32-bit world, just accept it.
...and you also live in a mostly single-threaded world. And with the 64-bit stuff, it'll only take a year or so for at least some things to integrate it(UT2k4 and Farcry are trying to integrate it, for example). I'm just saying 64-bit is better than HT; both are rather unsupported on a large scale anyway.
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Old May 2, 2004, 01:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
...and you also live in a mostly single-threaded world. And with the 64-bit stuff, it'll only take a year or so for at least some things to integrate it(UT2k4 and Farcry are trying to integrate it, for example). I'm just saying 64-bit is better than HT; both are rather unsupported on a large scale anyway.
Single-threaded indeed but that doesn't mean I can't multitask better on a P4 than an A64.
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Old May 2, 2004, 01:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by OnceBitten
Single-threaded indeed but that doesn't mean I can't multitask better on a P4 than an A64.
And how many times do you multitask with intensive programs? I admit, I don't do video editing at all, but I've only had one or two situations where HT would've really helped me.
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