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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:39 PM   #1
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No_Style
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Default 50% please.. Who will deliver?

I've been wanting to get a 9500 PRO for awhile, but now that I look at it. I think it will be a waste of money. I'm looking for a significant increase in performance. Something along the lines of 50%. So far I'm not seeing that happening with the latest 9700 PRO even. Basically, when I get a new video card, I want to see my 3D Mark 2001 score double. I've got a 9100 (BIOS FLASHED) right now. When I first got that card from my measly ATI Xpert 2000, I was thrilled to see the significant increase in performance. Will the R350 deliver that? Or will I be waiting for the R400?

Plan A: Get 9500PRO or 9700PRO when it drops to $200 - $150 CDN Range.

Plan B: Wait for r350 to drop to same price range.

Plan C: Wait for R400 to hit with that price range.

It's A LONG WAIT!
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:46 PM   #2
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you Sir, are a dork.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:48 PM   #3
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Default You triggered my e-mail notification for..

That? Thanks for coming out...
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:54 PM   #4
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Default

wait until the r350 hit the streets, then buy a 9700 pro ... with AF/AA, i guess you will find a nice performance boost compared to your 9100
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:55 PM   #5
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Default Without with AF/AA

..The increase is...not significant enough.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:56 PM   #6
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I think it's unrealistic for you to expect a 50% performance gain.. you are upgrading your video card but what about the rest of your system? mobo, cpu, RAM, all make a difference too..
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 05:57 PM   #7
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Luke, you need a girlfriend.

I hear ya No_Style. My rule of thumb has been to wait for whatever the best performing card is at ~$100 (now that's been moved up to ~$150) and upgrade every 3 years. My progression has been from Mach64->Rendition V2100->Voodoo2->Voodoo3->8500LE, and while I'm interested in the features of the 9500 I've decided to wait for R400 to see a big performance increase. I'm actually going to pay $600 CDN for my next card - which is totally out of character for me.

I have, however become ATi exclusive I think. Since 3dfx (and their excellent driver support) went down I've decided to opt for the local co.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:06 PM   #8
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:08 PM   #9
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Default Taxes!

And it's out of the 200 - 150 range.. The Taxes kill me!
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Without with AF/AA

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
..The increase is...not significant enough.
What are you talking about? When using AA and AF, you will probably get 5x the performance.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:33 PM   #11
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Cool Deja who?

The 9500 Pro is a whole 'nuther league from my 8500. It was only about a 1,750 difference in 3dm2k1se, but the GAMING was just fantastic!

Life is better with 4xAA 8xAF at 50+ fps.

(Yeah, I know. But... )
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:40 PM   #12
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wait for R500.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:42 PM   #13
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Default For the record...

I'm not looking at gaming with AA or AF. And hello D.W
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:52 PM   #14
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Default

umm, you can't say the speed increase is not significant when you have not tried it.

unless you upgrade your cpu at the same time you will never see a 50% increase. pop in a R600 along with an XP2000+ and the proformance will be only slightly better that the 9700PRO.

I had a 8500 and can tell you that in strictly GPU limited situations the 9700 beats the 8500 by over 100% that combined with the fact that the 9700pro with 4xAA and 16xAF is still faster than the 8500 with niether makes it an exelent buy. PC-Canada has the Sapphire 9700NP for $350 CND.
But yes taxes are a B!tch.

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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:56 PM   #15
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Default Valid Points.

Valid Points indeed.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 06:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: For the record...

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
I'm not looking at gaming with AA or AF. And hello D.W
Then stick with yer 8500.
BTW i don't think you will ever see the 9700 for $150 CND it will be discontinued before that.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 07:05 PM   #17
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Default That maybe true..

Another valid point brought up, Spike700. Thanks
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 07:16 PM   #18
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Default

NCIX price matches so use the CanadaComputer link, so you only pay one tax due to them being in B.C.
267.00 Taxes in..shipping approx $14 so a little over $280 delivered to your door


http://www.ncix.com/canada/productde...tab=2&sku=8976

I'm sure you can swing $80, live off Kraft Dinner for a month.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 07:18 PM   #19
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Default ...I already live off Kraft Dinner...

IS THERE ANYTHING LOWER THAN K.D?! Heh Heh..
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 07:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Without with AF/AA

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
..The increase is...not significant enough.
That point is simply ridiculous.

With a 9700 class card or higher you better damn well be using AA/AF or your not getting your money's worth.....
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:15 PM   #21
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Default just to clarify

This guy is actually asking for a 100% performance increase.

Just for a clarification, when your score doubles, that's 100% better, not 50%.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:27 PM   #22
No_Style
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Default Re: just to clarify

Quote:
Originally posted by ahebl
This guy is actually asking for a 100% performance increase.

Just for a clarification, when your score doubles, that's 100% better, not 50%.
I said I was looking for a 50% increase in performance. And hoping to double 3D Mark score. Which is in fact 2 different things on its own.

I found some benchmarks which convinced me to wait a bit for the 9700 PRO to drop a bit in price. The performance does double in certain areas. UT2K3 is a prime example of that 50% increase I was looking for. The 9500 PRO doesn't look to shabby there either. That was what I was looking for.

Tom's Hardware VGA Chart
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:33 PM   #23
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Default ok

whatever.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:40 PM   #24
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Default turn on AA

turn on AA and AF and you will get your fricking 50 % with a 9500 or 9700, a few more percent that 50, guaranteed.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:46 PM   #25
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Default Why do you seem upset?

Really, I've attracted more bashing from asking this simple question than my entire time at Rage3D. What is the problem? I'm not even saying that I'm going to get a GeForceFX cuz it beats the R300 in certain benches. I really have no clue as to why several individuals here have gotten edgy over this little discussion. Is it wrong to ask?
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 08:59 PM   #26
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Angry Why you ungrateful little f*ck!

Quote:
Originally posted by No_Style
Really, I've attracted more bashing from asking this simple question than my entire time at Rage3D. What is the problem? I'm not even saying that I'm going to get a GeForceFX cuz it beats the R300 in certain benches. I really have no clue as to why several individuals here have gotten edgy over this little discussion. Is it wrong to ask?

How dare you, HOW DARE YOU!!! You come here asking for help with an ATI card and some people ask you a few questions and you start getting all indignant and saying "several individuals here have gotten edgy"?!?

What frigging gall!

Were you born in a bucket and raised by wolves? Have you ever thought of anyone but your own pathetic little self and your miserable and insignifigant problems? JEEEZUS!

And in conclusion, I find these more than compelling reasons for our upcoming invasion of Iraq. Thank you for your attention, and God bless America!


(No, I have no clue what I'm talking about either...carry on with your quarrelling)
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 09:02 PM   #27
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Default Yes I was

I was born in a bucket. But not raised by wolves though. They were actually beavers.
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 09:17 PM   #28
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Default

No_Style,

as spike700 said, it is very unlikely that you will get double performance without using AA and AF from any video card upgrade ... because of CPU limit


examples of CPU limit:


from this review: http://<br /> <a href="http://www.t...index.html</a>


Dungeon Siege @ 1024x786 , FPS = 93.8
Dungeon Siege @ 1280x1024x32 , FPS = 90.8
Dungeon Siege @ 1600x1200 , FPS = 90.2





from this review: http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/r300/default.asp


Jedi Kinght II: @ 800x600x32 , FPS=113.3
Jedi Kinght II: @ 1024x768x32 , FPS=113.2
Jedi Kinght II: @ 1280x1024x32 , FPS=113.5 (the FPS actually increased )
Jedi Kinght II: @ 1600x1200x32 , FPS=112.1








and this example shows why ppl like SsP45 , Clockwork and ahebl say that you should really consider using AA & AF if you consider getting any of the R300 class (or better ) cards


from this review: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683


Jedi Kight II is running at over 100 FPS @ 4X AA and 16X Aniso ...... and the Radeon 9700 Pro is running this game close to 5 times the GeForce4 Ti 4600 speed
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Old Feb 27, 2003, 10:59 PM   #29
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Default Yeah I noticed that.

Read similar things over at Tom's Hardware. However, UT2K3 is another story. But I do understand what those people are saying. I just don't understand why they have to bitter about it. Heh Heh But for the sake of just raw power comparison (Which Tom's Hardware did nicely with various benches across different games) I wanted to see a 50% increase, WHICH the R9700Pro delivers. Thanks for the input tho
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Old Feb 28, 2003, 12:03 AM   #30
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Default

i really don't know what the B!tching is about. the guy asked a simple question.

I have to agree tho, if you are going to spend the money on a 9700 then you should use AA and AF or at least AA.

right now i doubt U notice the jaggies, or they don't bother you. but trust me once you have played with 4xAA you will wonder how you ever played without it.

But it is all up to you. and you should be able to get 3 years out of a 9700.

BTW what speed of CPU do you have? 2G+ you will see a major improvement but much under 2G and you should consider just keeping the 8500, it is still by no means slow.
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