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Old Jun 13, 2018, 07:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
It could be there were signs that Vega wasn't going to be up to snuff for gaming and they basically pulled the plug on it. Just finished it up for compute workloads, plus whatever gaming performance it could actually provide while knowing it wouldn't be competitive there.
Very possible.

Due to the HBM2 delays mostly I assume. Figure it'd be too late to market so get some leg work done on Navi since HBM2 is holding us back.


Still though, when it came to GPU Core design and tweaks and such.. They should have kept at least 40% on Vega to figure out power design and thermals. Instead, they pulled an American Motors Corporation and overbuilt everything to counter the shortcomings. (see AMX 390)
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 10:15 AM   #62
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Well, you guys are going to hate this :

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62196...ept/index.html


Faster than a GTX1080TI, but price wise it'll be between 999$ and 1499$....Do keep in mind that the GTX1080TI launched at 799$ in January of 2017?
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 11:23 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Well, you guys are going to hate this :

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62196...ept/index.html


Faster than a GTX1080TI, but price wise it'll be between 999$ and 1499$....Do keep in mind that the GTX1080TI launched at 799$ in January of 2017?
they can keep it

waiting on the ti

but I would not pay 1499 for a 1180 ti let alone a small chip mid range card I would buy a xbox first .
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 11:30 AM   #64
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AMD Navi GPUs Will Not Use MCM Design, Feature Single Monolithic Die Instead, Reveals RTG SVP – Yet To Conclude If MCM Can Be Used in Traditional Gaming Graphics Cards
https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-gpus-n...-gaming-cards/
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 01:22 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Well, you guys are going to hate this :

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62196...ept/index.html


Faster than a GTX1080TI, but price wise it'll be between 999$ and 1499$....Do keep in mind that the GTX1080TI launched at 799$ in January of 2017?
Even if it was a 7nm chip, and I think itll more likely be a 12 nm if launching in august, its way overpriced.

Hoping that little Navi 7nm will have a 30% bigger transistor budget than Vega at the new mid range price of 400$ (500$ CAD).
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 05:29 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
So it looks like Navi might be a mid-range upgrade and "next gen" might be high end. TBH I'm not really interested as Vega 64 suits my set up. I can wait till 2020 for a new card no probs.
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Old Jun 14, 2018, 07:34 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
So it looks like Navi might be a mid-range upgrade and "next gen" might be high end. TBH I'm not really interested as Vega 64 suits my set up. I can wait till 2020 for a new card no probs.
being on 4k I would love a AMD card that can beat my 1080 ti strix even by as little as 10% and has HDMI 2.1 soonest

hell I may buy two if they get a 55" HDMI 2.1 VRR or Freesync 120Hz screen out next year
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 12:56 PM   #68
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Quote:
AMD GPU Rumors: Polaris 30 12nm GPUs in Q4 2018, Navi GPU Based Mid-Range Cards Arrive Before High-End HBM2 Variants
Quote:
AMD Gaming GPU Rumors: 12nm Polaris 30 in Q4 2018, 7nm Vega 20 in Q1 2019, 7nm Navi Between 2019/2020
https://wccftech.com/amd-gpu-rumors-...eon-rx-gaming/

looks like 2 to 3 years before a high end Navi gaming card






thanks Raja
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 01:52 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
https://wccftech.com/amd-gpu-rumors-...eon-rx-gaming/

looks like 2 to 3 years before a high end Navi gaming card


thanks Raja


Maybe the case for Navi, but seems Vega 20 has a few tricks up it's sleeve too:


https://imgur.com/LBeMDuE



The above image shows Vega 20 to re-enable dual precision floating point and ECC, which is to be expected for a workstation card, but also have 4 stacks of HBM 2.0 so that gives it 1 TB/ sec of memory bandwidth, and configurations of 16 or 32 GB of ram become possible but also introduces a new communication protocol for GPU to GPU communication ( Dual GPU Vega 20 card anyone? ), with the single GPU version probably using 150 watts because of the 7nm process and the dual GPU card being the 300 watt beast.....Never mind the adoption of PCI-e 4.0 since no motherboard supports it yet.



Still, while it does suck that Navi may be quite a while until it's out, a gamer version of the above with 7nm allowing even higher clocks than the 14nm could while keeping power at the 300 watt limit and it being a dual GPU card, is a mighty fast card indeed.....We'll see what's up by the end of the year.
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 02:20 PM   #70
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as for Vega 20 it the same deal for me as the 1180 or no sale

first if they make a gamer Vega 20

then it needs to be faster than a 1080 ti by 15% to 20% minimum at 4k

3- it needs full hbmi 2.1 support .
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 03:41 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
as for Vega 20 it the same deal for me as the 1180 or no sale

first if they make a gamer Vega 20

then it needs to be faster than a 1080 ti by 15% to 20% minimum at 4k

3- it needs full hbmi 2.1 support .

Indeed, if they release a gamer version, but it was mentioned that there would be a 7nm Vega for gaming in a recent AMD video.


Even if we keep it on a single GPU versus single GPU basis, the switch to 7nm and the big power savings that go with that, as well as the much easier cooling requirements, make it being 15~20% faster than the GTX1080 TI not exactly a hard thing to pull off...… a Dual GPU version makes it live in it's own universe if the performance scaling is the usual 80~90% for the second chip.



HDMI 2.1 is the big if though.....
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 05:27 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
https://wccftech.com/amd-gpu-rumors-...eon-rx-gaming/

looks like 2 to 3 years before a high end Navi gaming card






thanks Raja
Not sure where you are getting 2 to 3 years for Navi. between 2019/2020 is 1.5 to 2 years, as we are already half way thru 2018. The True High end Navi 20 is 2020 to 2021, so I am guessing you are talking about the Navi 20, not the Navi 10 or Navi 14.
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 05:48 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
Not sure where you are getting 2 to 3 years for Navi. between 2019/2020 is 1.5 to 2 years, as we are already half way thru 2018.
that's midrange Navi

first vega 20

second midrange Navi


Quote:
AMD 7nm Navi For Mainstream Users First, High-End HBM2 Variants Later
then High-End HBM2 Variants Later

and it will be a year between each and they are always late

we won't see High-End HBM2 gaming Navi before Q3 or Q4 2021


…………

I think they scrapped a lot of what Raja had planed
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 09:11 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
https://wccftech.com/amd-gpu-rumors-...eon-rx-gaming/

looks like 2 to 3 years before a high end Navi gaming card






thanks Raja
Raja had nothing to do with this. And that source came from chiphell.
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 09:13 PM   #75
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I think they scrapped a lot of what Raja had planed
Just because Lisa Su wanted AMD to focus on semi-custom strategy and put massive resource on Navi than Vega.
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Old Jul 1, 2018, 09:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
Not sure where you are getting 2 to 3 years for Navi. between 2019/2020 is 1.5 to 2 years, as we are already half way thru 2018. The True High end Navi 20 is 2020 to 2021, so I am guessing you are talking about the Navi 20, not the Navi 10 or Navi 14.
I think AMD probably will start with low-end and midrange Navi first before true high-end Navi. That is probably a good way to test those as testbed first before launch high-end Navi.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 12:00 AM   #77
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Well this answers it and gives a relative release date too:


https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62386...019/index.html


Vega 20 on 7nm with 16 GB of HBM by Q1 of 2019, so a little over 6 months away....
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 12:20 AM   #78
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Well this answers it and gives a relative release date too:


https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62386...019/index.html


Vega 20 on 7nm with 16 GB of HBM by Q1 of 2019, so a little over 6 months away....
Quote:
but I truly doubt it'll be able to compete with NVIDIA's upcoming GeForce GTX 1180


it should if it beats a 1080 ti the 1180 is not going to beat the Titan V
so the small chip 1180 is only going to be 15 to 20% at most over a 1080 ti

so Vega 20 with 4 stacks of hbm2 ( if it does have a 4096bit Memory Bus )should be close to the 1180
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 01:15 AM   #79
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meh. vega isn't slow because of memory bandwidth though. vega64 has plenty of it and look what it puts out ..
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 12:07 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
it should if it beats a 1080 ti the 1180 is not going to beat the Titan V
so the small chip 1180 is only going to be 15 to 20% at most over a 1080 ti

so Vega 20 with 4 stacks of hbm2 ( if it does have a 4096bit Memory Bus )should be close to the 1180


It's not so much that, but that AMD will open up the hostilities with a GPU already built at 7nm since it's the same one as what was shown a few weeks back with the Instinct version, and it wasn't an engineering sample just out of the oven, but working and final silicon and strait from global foundries.



On Nvidia's end, being that they are pretty much exclusive to TSMC as far as foundries go, and they have shown that their 12nm process is working fine with the Titan V which uses big Volta, but all that TSMC has stated just a couple of days ago and with regards to 7nm is that they're still ramping up, so with GTX1180 being launched in a little over a month from now, the odds are pretty high it's still a GPU built with the 12nm step.



AMD may be able to pack hardware and clock it quite a bit higher just because of the 7nm step when compared to 12nm, while keeping power and cooling under control and the chip remains pretty small so it's cheap to make as well......This could turn out quite interesting in a few months from now.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 05:28 PM   #81
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meh. vega isn't slow because of memory bandwidth though. vega64 has plenty of it and look what it puts out ..
It is actually bandwidth starved over 1450-1500Mhz. At 1800Mhz core, if I bump my HBM2 up to 1150 and it gives me an 8-12% bump in FPS.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 05:49 PM   #82
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It is actually bandwidth starved over 1450-1500Mhz. At 1800Mhz core, if I bump my HBM2 up to 1150 and it gives me an 8-12% bump in FPS.
In what games? Bumping it up to 1150 from what?

1450-1500 compared to 1800 is a wide gap. What's the increase at 1500?
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 10:14 PM   #83
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I'm not sure I buy that a better process node is somehow going to make AMD's hardware competitive. Obviously Nvidia has access to that same tool, so all their stuff is going to take a step up.

Navi or whatever coming out and being as fast as a 1080 Ti isn't going to be that impressive when it's competing against the 1180 Ti. That's just focusing on the last target. By that token Vega looks great against the 980 Ti.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 10:43 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I'm not sure I buy that a better process node is somehow going to make AMD's hardware competitive. Obviously Nvidia has access to that same tool, so all their stuff is going to take a step up.

Navi or whatever coming out and being as fast as a 1080 Ti isn't going to be that impressive when it's competing against the 1180 Ti. That's just focusing on the last target. By that token Vega looks great against the 980 Ti.
we are not going to see the 1180 ti for a year or more

if it is 10 to 20% faster than the 1080 ti it should be close to the 1180 non ti


and the 1180 is 12nm

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-...12nm-database/
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 10:52 PM   #85
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I don't see the new Vega being 10-20% faster than the 1080TI. Vega64 is a good deal slower than the 1080TI, it'd be a pretty big leap in performance increase to move to 20% faster. This isn't factoring in overclocking with NV has the lead in that department as well.

I dunno. Hopefully the new Vega is awesome but I have my reservations after disappointment Vega64 turned out to be despite all the hype.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 11:00 PM   #86
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In what games? Bumping it up to 1150 from what?

1450-1500 compared to 1800 is a wide gap. What's the increase at 1500?

At 1800Mhz Core, if I bump the HBM from 945 to 1150.. I get around an 8-10% bump in FPS in BF1.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 11:19 PM   #87
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At 1800Mhz Core, if I bump the HBM from 945 to 1150.. I get around an 8-10% bump in FPS in BF1.
That's actually interesting. How are you gauging that 8-10% bump? Is this in MP where FPS could vary due to server variance and/or player count? Not discrediting, genuinely curious.

1800Mhz core is pretty high too, afaik?
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 11:31 PM   #88
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I don't see the new Vega being 10-20% faster than the 1080TI. Vega64 is a good deal slower than the 1080TI, it'd be a pretty big leap in performance increase to move to 20% faster. This isn't factoring in overclocking with NV has the lead in that department as well.

I dunno. Hopefully the new Vega is awesome but I have my reservations after disappointment Vega64 turned out to be despite all the hype.
just a die shrink from 14nm to 7nm should get them a good bit higher clock speed plus the memory bandwidth increase


and if this is even close it is not just a die shrink


Quote:
AMD 7nm Vega 20 Benchmark Leaked, 70% Faster Per Clock vs Vega 64
https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-vega-20...-leaked-up-to/

vega 64 is the same or I bit faster than a 1080 non ti

so at this point if it does not beat a 1080 ti why build it
who is going to buy a card slower or the same speed as a 18 month old card by the time vega 20 gaming hits

unless they sell it for a lot less than a 1080 ti and with 16gb of hbm2 I don't see that happing
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 11:40 PM   #89
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They built Vega64 even though it barely tied the 1080 and it came out over a year after the 1080 .. I don't put it past AMD to do something like that.

Those benches aren't really conclusive of anything. If it was 70% faster then we're looking at the biggest jump in performance since the 8800GTX. I dunno about that. I'm remaining skeptical but I'm hoping it's a killer card.
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Old Jul 2, 2018, 11:51 PM   #90
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Quote:
AMD's new Vega 20 will support PCIe 4.0 tech
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62379...ech/index.html

there goes my ryzen & threadripper motherboards
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