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Old Jan 14, 2019, 05:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
Agreed but I'm seeing OC's point though. The die hard Supra crown may not go for this. Same was to what happened with the RX-8 compared to the RX-7.
I doubt they will. The diehard Supra crowd are now all much older and are all likely driving minivans (i.e. the ones that could afford a Supra new when they came out).

The people that drool over Supras, youngsters, won't be able to afford a $50k car anyway. Trying to go after that crown isn't going to work. Trying to chase Chevy with the horsepower wars of Corvette is a losing battle as well. IMO, the car (looks aside) slots pretty nicely in the market today. Anyone who wants power is going to buy a Vette (or a Mustang). Anything that is lighter and nimble with some decent power is basically in the $70-80k range today (Porsche Boxster/Cayman). If this can handle as well as expected, it will be in a good spot of the market.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 05:06 PM   #62
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Let's start with the key mechanicals. The Supra is powered by a BMW-sourced 3.0-liter twin-scroll turbocharged inline-six engine with a variable intake valve lift system. It produces 335 horsepower and 365 pound-feet of torque. That's good enough to push the Supra from 0 to 60 miles per hour in 4.1 seconds, before propelling it to an electronically limited top speed of 155 miles per hour. It's all put to the rear wheels through an eight-speed automatic transmission (with paddle shifters) and a standard active differential (with electric motor and multi-plate clutches) to distribute torque.

To further help handling is a standard adaptive variable suspension. As specified by Toyota Gazoo Racing, that suspension is a double-joint spring strut front axle, and multi-link at the rear. The car also features variable-assist, variable-ratio electric power steering. At the corners are 19-inch forged alloy wheels wrapped in Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 255/35R19 up front and wider 275/35R19 in back. It features four-piston Brembo brake calipers and 13.7-inch front brake rotors.

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The Supra 3.0 will start at $50,920, including $930 in destination fees. It will offer navigation and a JBL sound system as a $2,640 option. The 3.0 Premium starts at $54,920. The Driver Assist Package for the 3.0 Premium adds another $1,195.

The first 1,500 Supras built we be special Launch Edition versions, starting at $56,180. Based on the 3.0 Premium grade, they'll come with a few features to set them apart, including red mirror caps, matte black 19-inch alloy wheels, carbon-fiber accents, and a numbered, carbon-fiber plaque bearing the image of Akio Toyoda and his signature. White and black Launch Editions will include a red interior, while red ones will feature a black interior.
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/...oit-auto-show/
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 05:34 PM   #63
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It is rumored there will be a manual down the road. Put a rag top on that and I might bite.

I'd rather drive a Toy wrapped BMW than something with a BMW or Porsche logo on it. Less phlegm goobers in it after parking with the top down in Philadelphia.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 08:47 PM   #64
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I'd rather spend 59K on an M2 competition than this turd.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 09:19 PM   #65
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Saw the preview on Shmee150. What a terrible car.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 10:03 PM   #66
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 10:08 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
I doubt they will. The diehard Supra crowd are now all much older and are all likely driving minivans (i.e. the ones that could afford a Supra new when they came out).

The people that drool over Supras, youngsters, won't be able to afford a $50k car anyway. Trying to go after that crown isn't going to work. Trying to chase Chevy with the horsepower wars of Corvette is a losing battle as well. IMO, the car (looks aside) slots pretty nicely in the market today. Anyone who wants power is going to buy a Vette (or a Mustang). Anything that is lighter and nimble with some decent power is basically in the $70-80k range today (Porsche Boxster/Cayman). If this can handle as well as expected, it will be in a good spot of the market.
Yeah, can't argue with any of that.
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Old Jan 14, 2019, 10:09 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Shadowless View Post
I'd rather spend 59K on an M2 competition than this turd.
Another good point, price is way too high on this.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 08:08 AM   #69
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Here's where the bad stuff starts:

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The 2020 Toyota Supra is out now and now we get to dissect all the strange things about it with certainty. For instance: The lowest-spec Supra has a four-cylinder with less power than the controversial Toyota 86.

As we know, under the skin the new Supra is basically a BMW, a BMW Z4 to be exact. So in addition to getting the BMW’s B58-code 3.0-liter straight six, Toyota will also put in the sister engine to that, the B48 four-cylinder.

It’s part of the same engine architecture that also includes the B38 three-cylinder, and the B48 is kind of like a B58 with two fewer cylinders.

Toyota just put up the full specs of the Supra for the Japanese market on its dedicated Supra site and one number on the right will stick out to car nerds everywhere. The lowest-spec Supra will come with 197 PS. That’s about 194 horsepower as we measure it converting from metric to standard.

https://jalopnik.com/the-lowest-four...-hp-1831734785
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 08:21 AM   #70
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Lol that’s awful.

They really gimped and killed a lot of the enthusiasm with the low numbers.. I like the body but.. I dunno. I’m less excited every time I read about it.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 08:22 AM   #71
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Well, at least it's 400lbs lighter than the previous generation.

edit: I hadn't seen the new Z4 until this morning, and the Z4 just plain looks better.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 09:56 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Well, at least it's 400lbs lighter than the previous generation.

edit: I hadn't seen the new Z4 until this morning, and the Z4 just plain looks better.
About 3,300lbs and 335hp isn't too bad (it's OK), as long as the handling is there as well. It has some potential. The car in and of itself could be great, and I hope it is.

I just think it shouldn't have had any affiliation with the Supra name.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:00 AM   #73
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I've read nothing into this car and I'm laughing because I don't understand why a BMW engine is in it.

Did we jump the rail into another universe or something?

Where is the classic bullet-proof iron block of an engine that Supra's are spawned from?
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:10 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
About 3,300lbs and 335hp isn't too bad (it's OK), as long as the handling is there as well. It has some potential. The car in and of itself could be great, and I hope it is.

I just think it shouldn't have had any affiliation with the Supra name.
Oh, didn't realize the 3108 was the basest base model. So 3300lbs is kind of meh. This thing is Supra in name only.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:10 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
I've read nothing into this car and I'm laughing because I don't understand why a BMW engine is in it.

Did we jump the rail into another universe or something?

Where is the classic bullet-proof iron block of an engine that Supra's are spawned from?
It's not even that it just has a BMW engine in it, it's entirely a BMW design, with different body panels. That's not a Supra at all.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:15 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
Oh, didn't realize the 3108 was the basest base model. So 3300lbs is kind of meh. This thing is Supra in name only.
Yeah, the base model is even worse. Less power than an 86 car. Sure it has more torque, but it also weighs about 400lbs more.

It would be interesting to see how well it honestly competes with a Cayman too on the turbo. Close in power, but again 400lbs more.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:23 AM   #77
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The least they could have done is make the interior not look just like a BMW.

BTW that guy in the video is annoying. Its me Shmeeeeeeeeeeee. Mens version of a womens type blog lmao.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:26 AM   #78
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I just can’t see many people paying $50k for this. That’s not even fully loaded either. I’d rather buy an STI and take the ~$10k saved and drop full bolt ons into it..
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:32 AM   #79
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I just can’t see many people paying $50k for this. That’s not even fully loaded either. I’d rather buy an STI and take the ~$10k saved and drop full bolt ons into it..
People will buy it. Not everyone wants to go and mess with their cars.

Id still take it over the Z4 though in the styling department. I hate the front of the Z4.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:40 AM   #80
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I just can’t see many people paying $50k for this. That’s not even fully loaded either. I’d rather buy an STI and take the ~$10k saved and drop full bolt ons into it..
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People will buy it. Not everyone wants to go and mess with their cars.

Id still take it over the Z4 though in the styling department. I hate the front of the Z4.
I'd save another $7k and buy a Cayman if I wanted something light to toss around.

If I wanted a track rat, I'd buy a Camaro in the 1SS trim with the 1LE track package and save $5k.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 10:48 AM   #81
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I think that time has blurred/tainted people's memories of what the Supra actually was. Instead of thinking about bone stock A80 models coming off the assembly line with 225-320hp (and prior years as a Celica spinoff) they picture modified to hell high horspower beasts ala Fast & Furious.

This new model is fine and to me is appealing via its own merit (despite not meeting expectations of those that have some warped fantasy of the last generation Supra).

I'd consider one if I had the cash. I am sure it will be a blast to drive.

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Old Jan 15, 2019, 11:07 AM   #82
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An old Motorweek episode for perspective:

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Old Jan 15, 2019, 11:19 AM   #83
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Ignoring how the car is seen now is a bit silly. They wouldn't have brought the car back if it weren't so famous and popular. The reason it's so famous and popular has nothing to do with how it was first released. They aren't bringing back the Toyota Celica here, they are bringing back the SUPRA. Why would they bring back the Supra instead of calling it the Celica? Gee, I wonder...

Even if you ignore what the car has become over time, the sad fact is they slapped a Supra name on a BMW package.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 12:00 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
I've read nothing into this car and I'm laughing because I don't understand why a BMW engine is in it.

Did we jump the rail into another universe or something?

Where is the classic bullet-proof iron block of an engine that Supra's are spawned from?
Toyota and BMW partnered up a few years ago for a collaboration on tech and a sports car. This is that sports car. The grunt work is done by BMW. I think Toyota only did chassis tuning and exterior design. It was mentioned that once the groundwork was laid out (which platform, layout, engine/transmission options), then the BMW and Toyota teams diverged and did their own thing with the car.
This collaboration resulted in BMW having a next gen Z4 (it was said the Z4 was dead prior to this new generation)

Just like Subaru did the grunt work for the FRS/86/BRZ. But I think that one was more of a melting pot of Toyota and Subaru engineers working together as a single entity to create the car. If it was defined as who did what, Toyota funded the project, designed the interior/exterior, provided the D4S system, and shared in the chassis tuning. Subaru did all the engineering work, provided all the components used, provided the motor and also shared in chassis tuning. I think once it was close to finalizing Subaru and Toyota did their own tweaks to the car for its own 86 and BRZ.

They also have a collaboration with Mazda for tech or something (dunno for how much longer) as they got a rebadged Mazda 2 out of it (The Yaris Sedan or Scion ia/Yaris ia) Mazda doesn't sell the Mazda2 in N/A so I guess this is one way of them selling it here.

sports cars provide little to no profit margin. They need a business case to create it. And Akio Toyoda apparently wants his 'three brothers' sports car line. Supra is the top dog, 86 is middle and something has to be at the bottom (MR2 fits the bill the most here). The business case for those cars was that there was a market for Toyota sports cars and they could collaborate with those two manufacturers to fit something in there.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 12:04 PM   #85
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I think that time has blurred/tainted people's memories of what the Supra actually was. Instead of thinking about bone stock A80 models coming off the assembly line with 225-320hp (and prior years as a Celica spinoff) they picture modified to hell high horspower beasts ala Fast & Furious.

This new model is fine and to me is appealing via its own merit (despite not meeting expectations of those that have some warped fantasy of the last generation Supra).

I'd consider one if I had the cash. I am sure it will be a blast to drive.
I know one thing the Supra actually was in the 90s...

A Toyota.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 12:09 PM   #86
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I know one thing the Supra actually was in the 90s...

A Toyota.
I find it somewhat odd that Toyota has to go out and do these things with collaborative partners, yet with Lexus, they go out and do its own thing and we get cars like the RCF and the LC.

unless of course those ones justify the costs (somewhat) as they are a tier higher on the model hierarchy.

Or its like 86 has a boxer motor and the only boxer tie in they have is that dinky sports 800 that not a lot of people know about lol, but that car NEEDS to have a boxer motor.
and the Supra has an i6 and only BMW makes i6's (didn't benz start making them again recently?) and the only tie in to a Supra is the i6, so its not a Supra without that i6 (and Toyota doesn't make one anymore)
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 05:12 PM   #87
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So this is more of a Poopra than a Supra.
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But hey, let us not forget that while you bemoan about how Hollywood is bending over backwards for that market, you're also asking them to simultaneously consider the 'delicate' sensibilities of those state side who need to see a flag plastered all over the place like some Michael Bay movie barfed into another equally worse Michael Bay movie that then **** into the mouth of the team who designs the Call of Duty campaigns with all of their red, white and blue awesomeness with such an overly large boner for America that one does not need to actually 'fly' to the moon, they simply could tight rope on top if it. And if you're concerned about whether or not that penis is strong enough to be load bearing for such a journey, you forget that what fills all of those engorged crevices is freedom.
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Old Jan 15, 2019, 06:46 PM   #88
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Now that think more about it. 2019 LT1 Corvettes (455hp) are going for less than $50k
For that money I'd rather have a vett.
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 12:17 AM   #89
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I'd rather have a new Mustang than this.
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Old Jan 16, 2019, 09:15 AM   #90
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I'd rather have a new Mustang than this.
Its funny, I had the exact same comment to a buddy last night. The Supra looks forced and weird.
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