Go Back   Rage3D » Rage3D Discussion Area » Graphics Technology Forums » Legacy ATI Discussion and Technical Support » AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support
Rage3D Subscribe FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support Discussion and support forum for all of the All-In-Wonder Radeon cards, the TV-Wonder, Remote Wonder I and II, the new HDTV Wonder, and basically anything with VIVO support.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jun 22, 2004, 02:18 AM   #1
Advertisement (Guests Only)

Login or Register to remove this ad
Sulik
Radeon R420
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 308
Sulik is still being judged by the masses


Default HDTV Wonder preview

Sulik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2004, 07:49 AM   #2
EMunEeE
Formerly MrEMan4K
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: United States Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,753
EMunEeE is still being judged by the masses


Default ATI HDTV Wonder Review @ ET

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1615327,00.asp

Quote:
If you're a TV junkie, then HDTV is your ultimate fix.

With its heftier processing requirements, HDTV seems like a natural for PCs, but it's been somewhat slow to roll out. Companies like MyHD and Hauppauge have had HDTV cards on the market for some time, though the available off-the-air (OTA) content still varies in availability, depending on both location and time of day. Still, the trend is towards more HDTV programming on the airwaves and ATI has a solution for home theater PC (HTPC) enthusiasts to bring high-definition goodness into the mix.

With the HDTV Wonder, ATI was looking to raise the bar and drop the price in the PCI HDTV tuner card market. Has it succeeded on both counts? Turn the page and find out.
__________________
Visit my website: http://emuneee.com -- It's pretty cool.
EMunEeE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2004, 01:16 PM   #3
doctj
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 400
doctj is still being judged by the masses


Default

This is the best review out there. Seems as if the software needs a few revisions before I'll make the plunge.
__________________
Athlon 64 3200+. MSI K8T Neo-FISR
1024 Mb Mushkin PC 3200 DDR SDRAM. Radeon 9600 XT;Cat 4.9. Fusion QAM-T HDTV . Leadtek winfast expert
Drives: Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200.7. + WD Caviar SE 120 Gb. Pioneer DVR-A06 ± 4x R/RW. Pioneer 115 DVD-Drive. Zip 100.Windows XP SP1. Via Hyperion drivers 4.49.

HTPC: Athlon XP 1500, MSI KT133A, 512 SDRAM, Samsung SD-816 DVD, Win2K SP4, All in Wonder Radeon 32 MB DDR- MMC 9.01, Remote Wonder, Chaintech 710 Infocus X1, Onkyo 770.
doctj is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement (Guests Only)
Login or Register to remove this ad
Old Jun 22, 2004, 01:51 PM   #4
SciDoctor
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 2,467
SciDoctor is still being judged by the masses


Default

Moved to sticky .

Please use sticky for all discussion on the HDTV and reviews etc.

(The older thread was not suitable as it was more speculative )
__________________
...an ounce of perception , a pound of obscure....
SciDoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2004, 05:39 PM   #5
fanbanlo
Radeon Evergreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,550
fanbanlo is still being judged by the masses


Default

I am happy to see ATI providing On-Demand feature outside of AIW. However, the price of HDTVWonder is still quite expensive. Especially, you generally need at least 3 to 6 more MMC release to have all the feature implemented perfectly
__________________
AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+ | 2GB DDR400 RAM | Asus A8N-E | Radeon 4670 | Theatre 550 x2 | Remote Wonder | Seagate 500GB x 2 | Windows Vista SP2
fanbanlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 12:03 AM   #6
Liuke
Fuzzy Bunnies go BOIIING!
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hoppyland
Posts: 4,369
Liuke is still being judged by the masses


Default

It's looking pretty good though they have some kinks to work out.

Not sure if I'd bite at about $200. I will admit that's much cheaper than buying a whole HDTV though. It just needs a bit more polish that can hopefully be fixed via software. Acccording to Anandtech, it looks like it always run in time-shifting mode which I don't like. I couldn't confirm that in Extremetech’s review though. It would also be nice if they implemented some EPG specific to the HDTV programs and combined the regular TV app w/ the new DTV app instead of having them separate. Also, transcoding and recording options seem a bit limited and goofy right now. They also didn’t update the Remote Wonder to support the new HDTV functionality so the button are the same and there’s no specific button to start the DTV app unless you program one in.

Well, I’m just wondering if the HDTV Wonder will be relegated to crappy software and support like the TV Wonder products have been plagued by. It does seem to fall into a similar product line. Just hope it doesn't suffer the same fate since this is basically a “high-end TV Wonder” cause it looks like they can’t even integrate an HDTV tuner onto an AIW card right now due to the size and interference issues. Perhaps that will change in the future.

I'll probably wait for a 2nd generation/revision of the HDTV Wonder for them to work out some "first try" issues.
__________________
A64 X2 3800+ | Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe | 2 x 512 MB Crucial Ballistix PC3200 | 2 x BFG 6800 GT OC | BFG 550W PSU | WD Raptor 74GB | WD 160GB SE | Lite-On 52x32x52 CD-RW + 16X DVD-ROM | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 | Logitech Z-680 5.1 Speakers | Logitech G15 | G5 | MX1000 | Ideazon Zboard | 3DMark03 = 20963 | 3DMark05 = 9645

P4 2.8C | Asus P4P800 Deluxe | 2x256MB Kingston HyperX PC3500 and 2x512MB Corsair Value DDR400 | ATI X800 XL | Antec TrueBlue 480W | WD 40GB | Saitek Eclipse KB | Razer Diamondback Plasma LE

Athlon XP-M 2500+ | Abit NF7-S | 2 x 256MB Corsair Value PC3200 and 1 x 512MB Simpletech Nitro PC3500 | AIW 9600 Pro | Enermax Noisetaker 470W PSU | WD 100GB SE | WD 80GB | WD 40GB | Lite-On 40x12x48 CD-RW | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 1 | Logitech Cordless MX Duo + MX518
Liuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 12:21 AM   #7
fanbanlo
Radeon Evergreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,550
fanbanlo is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Liuke
I'll probably wait for a 2nd generation/revision of the HDTV Wonder for them to work out some "first try" issues.
Haha.. yeah? So, is TVWonder Pro any good? I've herad that it is worse than TVWonder / VE.~!
__________________
AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+ | 2GB DDR400 RAM | Asus A8N-E | Radeon 4670 | Theatre 550 x2 | Remote Wonder | Seagate 500GB x 2 | Windows Vista SP2
fanbanlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 12:31 AM   #8
Someotherdude
Radeon Evergreen
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,857
Someotherdude is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by fanbanlo
Haha.. yeah? So, is TVWonder Pro any good? I've herad that it is worse than TVWonder / VE.~!
I had a TV wonder pci and then upgraded to the Wonder pro. The picture quality is definitely better, and as long as I stick with mmc 8.2, everything worked. So yes, it's an improvement.
Someotherdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 02:46 PM   #9
Shock-n-Awe
Radeon R600
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States Frayed Ends of Sanity, MN
Posts: 645
Shock-n-Awe is still being judged by the masses


Default

200 bucks is higher than i expected it to be.

i skimmed over the reviews,and wonder if anyone can answer this.

the pics show only an S-video out, wtf?

or will i be able to use the DVI to component dongle on my 9600, to get HD out to my TV?

i have cable now and i like it and im not going to drop it anytime soon,

im just asking this for people who might be in the market for an hdtv .
would they be able to skip over the set top box, and still get the same quality though component, while savng a few bucks?

or will s-video be the best they can get?

if the s-video is it, that sucks fat goats
__________________
say what?
Shock-n-Awe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7, 2004, 09:00 AM   #10
ShiningArcanine
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 398
ShiningArcanine is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock-n-Awe
200 bucks is higher than i expected it to be.
I agree. The price is too high. I'd was expecting this to replace the TV Wonder while maintaining the TV Wonder's price point.
ShiningArcanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2004, 07:06 PM   #11
PGHammer
This Olde (AGP) PC
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada Accokeek, MD
Posts: 894
PGHammer is still being judged by the masses


Lightbulb HDTV Wonder Qs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock-n-Awe
200 bucks is higher than i expected it to be.

i skimmed over the reviews,and wonder if anyone can answer this.

the pics show only an S-video out, wtf?

or will i be able to use the DVI to component dongle on my 9600, to get HD out to my TV?

i have cable now and i like it and im not going to drop it anytime soon,

im just asking this for people who might be in the market for an hdtv .
would they be able to skip over the set top box, and still get the same quality though component, while savng a few bucks?

or will s-video be the best they can get?

if the s-video is it, that sucks fat goats
If your cable company is using QAM256 to retransmit HD content (and most are) then the HDTV Wonder won't let you toss your cable box.

There are no YPbPr inputs on the HDTV Wonder, so it's basically OTA or nothing. (Satellite viewers are also SOL.)

*However*, you have dual antenna *inputs* so you can have both OTA HD and a feed from your satellite (or cable) company using the other antenna input.

Right now, there is *one* HDTV tuner that *claims* to support QAM256 (the myHD Fusion III); however, it is not widely available and still has software issues.

Even though I have cable (which I have no plans on tossing), the HDTV Wonder makes one heck of a case for itself with the dual-source cability (cable TV for one input, and the included HD antenna for the OTA HD content available locally). However, I do have some issues that need to be addressed.

1. I have an AIW 9700 Pro in the system. Because it's my primary graphics card, I have no plans on getting rid of it until I upgrade to PCI Express. Can two sets of ATI TV tuners coexist?

2. If the audio output is fed through my Audigy 2 ZS, will the Audigy detect the Dolby Digital content (if any) in the HD signal?

3. What IRQs does the HDTV Wonder use? (This is strictly informational, as I am wondering about ACPI compatibility.)
__________________
*Mighty Mouse V 2.0*
ASUS P5N-EN/HDMI
Intel Celeron DC E1200
2 GB DDR2-800 (1 GB Corsair CL5 x2)
200 GB MAXTOR DiamondMax SATA
ATI Radeon HD 3450 PCIe
ATI HDTV Wonder (still going strong)
Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Windows 7 x64
openSuSE 11.1
PGHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 02:54 PM   #12
Liuke
Fuzzy Bunnies go BOIIING!
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hoppyland
Posts: 4,369
Liuke is still being judged by the masses


Unhappy

From what I could gather in the reviews, the outputs on the HDTV Wonder are like most of the current AIW's. It has the purple colored connector that attaches to ATI's purple breakout box which gives you S-Video, composite, and stereo outputs. Looks like they haven't updated the breakout box. Not sure if they can either, but yeah that's another disappointment I didn't think about.
__________________
A64 X2 3800+ | Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe | 2 x 512 MB Crucial Ballistix PC3200 | 2 x BFG 6800 GT OC | BFG 550W PSU | WD Raptor 74GB | WD 160GB SE | Lite-On 52x32x52 CD-RW + 16X DVD-ROM | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 | Logitech Z-680 5.1 Speakers | Logitech G15 | G5 | MX1000 | Ideazon Zboard | 3DMark03 = 20963 | 3DMark05 = 9645

P4 2.8C | Asus P4P800 Deluxe | 2x256MB Kingston HyperX PC3500 and 2x512MB Corsair Value DDR400 | ATI X800 XL | Antec TrueBlue 480W | WD 40GB | Saitek Eclipse KB | Razer Diamondback Plasma LE

Athlon XP-M 2500+ | Abit NF7-S | 2 x 256MB Corsair Value PC3200 and 1 x 512MB Simpletech Nitro PC3500 | AIW 9600 Pro | Enermax Noisetaker 470W PSU | WD 100GB SE | WD 80GB | WD 40GB | Lite-On 40x12x48 CD-RW | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 1 | Logitech Cordless MX Duo + MX518
Liuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 08:31 PM   #13
fanbanlo
Radeon Evergreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,550
fanbanlo is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Shock-n-Awe
would they be able to skip over the set top box, and still get the same quality though component, while savng a few bucks?

or will s-video be the best they can get?
1. no. channels through "set top box" are encoded, HDTVWonder can't decode those.
2. should be able to use component out or DVI in your Radeon 9500+...
__________________
AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+ | 2GB DDR400 RAM | Asus A8N-E | Radeon 4670 | Theatre 550 x2 | Remote Wonder | Seagate 500GB x 2 | Windows Vista SP2
fanbanlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2004, 09:45 PM   #14
PGHammer
This Olde (AGP) PC
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada Accokeek, MD
Posts: 894
PGHammer is still being judged by the masses


Default Maybe...

Quote:
Originally posted by rbV5
Thanks for the heads up!

OTA ATSC only, so I guess that puts the cable\sat box support issue to rest.
*No EPG for the HD

I hope thats incorrect.

I guess it captures using ATI VCR, and then you transcode to MPEG-2 for HD resolution..(so much for proprietary file format) I guess through the library applet. I was hoping to transcode directly to WMV HD, but it looks like you'll have to run MPEG-2 through WME.

Nice review, does clear up some things. Unless I missed it, I didn't see any info on system requirements or CPU load while viewing/timeshifting/recording which would have been nice.
Since it ties in to MMC (albeit as a separate application), why wouldn't it support the same encoding options ATI TV does today (MPEG-2, MPEG-4, WinMedia, etc.)?
__________________
*Mighty Mouse V 2.0*
ASUS P5N-EN/HDMI
Intel Celeron DC E1200
2 GB DDR2-800 (1 GB Corsair CL5 x2)
200 GB MAXTOR DiamondMax SATA
ATI Radeon HD 3450 PCIe
ATI HDTV Wonder (still going strong)
Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
Windows Vista Ultimate x64
Windows 7 x64
openSuSE 11.1
PGHammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2004, 12:42 AM   #15
Payne3d
[Fancy a Butcher's?]
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United States 192.168.0.1
Posts: 13,082
Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'Payne3d once won a refrigerator on 'The Price is Right'


Default

I was wondering -- will there be an all-in-wonder card with these OTA HDTV capabilities?
__________________
"World's First Analyst and Therapist: the Analrapist"
"Part time Cork Soaker"
Payne3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2004, 03:03 PM   #16
ShiningArcanine
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 398
ShiningArcanine is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by rbV5
I'm making assumptions here btw It works differently, according to the reviews I saw timeshifting is "always" enabled. Since the transport stream must use the PCI bus, I'm assuming that the transport stream must be transcoding to ATI VCR on the fly. Since the transport stream itself is a superset of MPEG-2, this transcoding doesn't require much processing. Apparently, for whatever reason, this must be why you can't capture the transport stream directly...it never makes it to the hardrive.

All the VCR files go to the library, which appears to be your only access to the files? Thats where you transcode the files from and burn to DVDR/CDR from as well. So it looks to me that you don't have access to the PVR application, or capture presets...its cap to ATI VCR always...transcode from the library for ATSC.

Since it transcodes full HD resolution to MPEG-2, that leaves open encoding using the codec/encoder of your choice. Transcoding directly to HD WMV 1080p or 720p faster than real-time would be great, I'm just not sure its possible without serious hardware assist.
Faster than real time encoding into HD WMV 1080p would be sweet. While they are at it, maybe they could add in faster than realtime 24bit 5.1 WMA encoding as well.

Edit: I just remembered that ATI said that they would need Microsoft to update Windows in order for them to accelerate WMV. Time to go submit a product suggestion to Microsoft...

Last edited by ShiningArcanine : Jun 24, 2004 at 03:24 PM.
ShiningArcanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2004, 05:15 PM   #17
SciDoctor
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 2,467
SciDoctor is still being judged by the masses


Default

The purple breakout box is for audio and video capture (via theatre 200! chip) and NOT output .

Video output is via your graphics card , preferably ATI with component , svhs and d-sub or dvi-i , depending on cards specification.
__________________
...an ounce of perception , a pound of obscure....
SciDoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2004, 04:58 AM   #18
Liuke
Fuzzy Bunnies go BOIIING!
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hoppyland
Posts: 4,369
Liuke is still being judged by the masses


Default

Oops! I knew that. Somehow I got them reversed when talking about it. Silly me!
__________________
A64 X2 3800+ | Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe | 2 x 512 MB Crucial Ballistix PC3200 | 2 x BFG 6800 GT OC | BFG 550W PSU | WD Raptor 74GB | WD 160GB SE | Lite-On 52x32x52 CD-RW + 16X DVD-ROM | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 | Logitech Z-680 5.1 Speakers | Logitech G15 | G5 | MX1000 | Ideazon Zboard | 3DMark03 = 20963 | 3DMark05 = 9645

P4 2.8C | Asus P4P800 Deluxe | 2x256MB Kingston HyperX PC3500 and 2x512MB Corsair Value DDR400 | ATI X800 XL | Antec TrueBlue 480W | WD 40GB | Saitek Eclipse KB | Razer Diamondback Plasma LE

Athlon XP-M 2500+ | Abit NF7-S | 2 x 256MB Corsair Value PC3200 and 1 x 512MB Simpletech Nitro PC3500 | AIW 9600 Pro | Enermax Noisetaker 470W PSU | WD 100GB SE | WD 80GB | WD 40GB | Lite-On 40x12x48 CD-RW | Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 1 | Logitech Cordless MX Duo + MX518
Liuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2004, 05:44 PM   #19
doctj
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 400
doctj is still being judged by the masses


Default

HDTV wonder tunes OTA what does unencrypted QAM HDTV offer over the OTA? The Fusion card is supposed to do this but aren't the unencrypted QAM channels the same as OTA?
__________________
Athlon 64 3200+. MSI K8T Neo-FISR
1024 Mb Mushkin PC 3200 DDR SDRAM. Radeon 9600 XT;Cat 4.9. Fusion QAM-T HDTV . Leadtek winfast expert
Drives: Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200.7. + WD Caviar SE 120 Gb. Pioneer DVR-A06 ± 4x R/RW. Pioneer 115 DVD-Drive. Zip 100.Windows XP SP1. Via Hyperion drivers 4.49.

HTPC: Athlon XP 1500, MSI KT133A, 512 SDRAM, Samsung SD-816 DVD, Win2K SP4, All in Wonder Radeon 32 MB DDR- MMC 9.01, Remote Wonder, Chaintech 710 Infocus X1, Onkyo 770.
doctj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 27, 2004, 01:11 AM   #20
Hyrax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Somalia NJ
Posts: 29,366
Hyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyHyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyHyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Wink Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

I am definately getting this when it comes out. But, What to do with my AIW???
__________________
The Core Value: Non-Aggression :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperNovae View Post
Origin says if you are benchmarking or something to just call and they will help you out. God the horror, those poor souls. This is the type of orwellian nightmare Alex Jones told me about.
Hyrax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2004, 01:54 AM   #21
HDTVGuru
Radeon R100
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Taipei / China / Ontario
Posts: 31
HDTVGuru is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctj
HDTV wonder tunes OTA what does unencrypted QAM HDTV offer over the OTA? The Fusion card is supposed to do this but aren't the unencrypted QAM channels the same as OTA?
Except for the additional channels possible.

Or the cost and complexity of HDTV OTA Antennas....remember the good old days before CATV where your house had a huge antenna and a rotator to point it toward the station you wanted to watch?

Or for the multipath reflections which are much more prevalent in urban areas for OTA HDTV, and while theoretically less critical are , in practice, more critical due to the difference in signal levels between good stations as well as between reflections of the same station...inadequate multipath rejection capability in inexpensive tuner systems.

QAM PC HDTV is the Holy Grail for the success of these sort of cards.
HDTVGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2004, 02:29 PM   #22
doctj
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 400
doctj is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVGuru
Except for the additional channels possible.

Or the cost and complexity of HDTV OTA Antennas....remember the good old days before CATV where your house had a huge antenna and a rotator to point it toward the station you wanted to watch?

Or for the multipath reflections which are much more prevalent in urban areas for OTA HDTV, and while theoretically less critical are , in practice, more critical due to the difference in signal levels between good stations as well as between reflections of the same station...inadequate multipath rejection capability in inexpensive tuner systems.

QAM PC HDTV is the Holy Grail for the success of these sort of cards.
My question is what is available on unencrypted QAM that I can't get on OTA? Is ESPN HD unencrypted for example or CNN?
__________________
Athlon 64 3200+. MSI K8T Neo-FISR
1024 Mb Mushkin PC 3200 DDR SDRAM. Radeon 9600 XT;Cat 4.9. Fusion QAM-T HDTV . Leadtek winfast expert
Drives: Seagate Barracuda SATA 7200.7. + WD Caviar SE 120 Gb. Pioneer DVR-A06 ± 4x R/RW. Pioneer 115 DVD-Drive. Zip 100.Windows XP SP1. Via Hyperion drivers 4.49.

HTPC: Athlon XP 1500, MSI KT133A, 512 SDRAM, Samsung SD-816 DVD, Win2K SP4, All in Wonder Radeon 32 MB DDR- MMC 9.01, Remote Wonder, Chaintech 710 Infocus X1, Onkyo 770.
doctj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 29, 2004, 01:29 AM   #23
HDTVGuru
Radeon R100
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Taipei / China / Ontario
Posts: 31
HDTVGuru is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctj
My question is what is available on unencrypted QAM that I can't get on OTA? Is ESPN HD unencrypted for example or CNN?
Well, the most likely final configuration for CATV providers is to provide a digital equivalent to "Basic Cable" or "Extended Basic Cable", where a certain block of channels are left unencrypted.

So it's hard to imagine how you'd ever have LESS choice or WORSE reception with unencryped QAM than you do with OTA HDTV.

This is exactly what is happening in some places, while in other cities the CATV folks encrypt everything. Thus I concede the IMMEDIATE situation does not make QAM superior, but it is extremely likely the future result will be so.

So if your choice was 6 HDTV channels on cable or some or all of these same 1,2,3,4,5, or 6 channels via OTA Broadcast, which one do you think would be the more clear signal? Cable, of course.

Bring out an acceptable decryption device and you have your ESPN and CNN. Obviously not immediate, but without QAM tuning, you would never have this capability. Early generation QAM provides added future growth potential. Yes, it's something of a gamble to take first-generation gear and bet on future compatability, but we do that all the time as "Early Adopters" of hi-tech gear. It's up to you to take the risk or not.

And just like Analog cable used to be (before all the premium channels were moved to Digital), the CATV company can descramble any time they like to offer "Free Preview Weekends" of HBO, Cinemax, Showtime etc. Scrambling can be applied on a channel-by-channel basis, or as a block of channels using the same algorithm/key.

At some point, all the CATV providers would like to drop analog transmission altogether and use digital exclusively, moving all the current analog channels to digital. Because most people have cable-ready TVs and would need STBs again, this is not immediately possible; sort of regressing to the early days of analog cable when you tuned to Channel 3 on the TV and used the STB....not a preferred situation. So the transition will take years as people either buy ATSC TVs or accept using digital STBs.

CATV needs to transition the majority of their Basic and Extended Basic customers to Digital Service over this time. Then they can pull the plug on Analog without creating much of a fuss, having to upgrade only the remaining few. If CATV manages this effort, it will maximize the revenue from both Digital Service and Digital STB rental. A smart customer would buy a Digital Cable Ready TV though. This way, CATV would have no way of knowing if you are receiving analog or digital, making the surcharge difficult. And if you do subscribe to Digital to get more than Analog + unencrypted QAM, you also save the STB rental fee.

The CATV folks are experimenting with various revenue models while they install the head-end equipment to process CableCARD validation. The question is: "Do we create a CCard config for every individual receiver, or do we create a basic config that is the same for everybody, only those with Premium Channel access needing user-specific customization. This way, a new subscriber of DC could be installed without admin support...great for those who do most installs via contractors instead of CATV Co. employees. CATV only becomes involved again if premium services are ordered.

In such an arrangement, all the local channels would be unscrambled and when you get Digital Cable, the installer would give you a CableCARD right out of his truck for either Basic Digital or Extended Digital. Flat rate, no programming required...a labor saving measure. For those who choose premium channels, the programming will occur after the install via another contact with the CATV co to activate.


In the end, I do believe it will be a long time before we see native QAM tuning of encrypted channels on the PC.

But I still want to have my PC function in the Digital world like it did in the Analog.

I bring 200+ channels into my home with Cable, and folks with Dish/DTV do the same.

I want to see these on the computer at the same resolution as I do on the TV, and that means either direct QAM tuning for cable, a sat receiver for Dish/DTV, or something better than Composite/SVideo out on external tuners.

Of course, external tuners mean the mess of IR Blasting wires and the blaster programming and config. Aggrevation. Even if FireWire, USB, HDCP/HDMI, Component Video all work. Aggrevation.

Let's see native tuning of digital cable in the PC. It's the only solution that truly minimizes all of the rest of the complicating factors.

Maybe once the CATV people get their CableCARD gear installed (for instance most of the entire Comcast network does not have functional CC head-end equipment installed in the first palce) somebody will come up with an acceptable dongle, USB module or PCI card to use in PCs which would make QAM tuning a reality. A simple watermarking based on CC serial registration would be an acceptable deterrent to casual piracy.
HDTVGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 14, 2004, 09:22 AM   #24
pNoc
Radeon R200
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Urbana
Posts: 77
pNoc is still being judged by the masses


Default

1. I can't believe none of you are complaining that the HDTV wonder isn't coming with the Remote Wonder 2. I'm personally very disappointed in Ati's decision on this matter.

Last edited by pNoc : Jul 14, 2004 at 09:26 AM.
pNoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2004, 12:12 PM   #25
HDTVGuru
Radeon R100
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Taipei / China / Ontario
Posts: 31
HDTVGuru is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Yes, but for folks who live in an area where the signals originate from substantially different directions, they will need a rotator.

Obviously, Forest Grove enjoys what amounts to a pretty unanimous line of sight to the stations broadcasting from the Portland West Hills where all the local HDTV signals originate. You're lucky.

This is just not the case in places like Dallas, Los Angeles or the surrounding areas, and numerous other large metro areas, or even Manhattan(where multipath reflections are horrid and will only get worse when transmission power is ramped up to coincide with the reduction in Analog broadcast)

Right now, most HDTV signals are not broadcast at the full FCC Authorized signal strength. Even countering for vastly different maximum signal strengths between any number of unique stations as well as the independent levels for any particular station causes enough of a problem as we see from much of the pioneering work done with several cards over at www.avsforum.com.

And again, while the chipsets are good in these PC Tuners, the rest of the circuitry is not nearly as robust as that in HDTV Television Receivers for multipath rejection, mostly due to power availability and circuit board real-estate.

Surely, it will get better as HDTV matures in common use, but for now, good antennas and the ability to aim them is very important for the majority of HDTV viewers who want HDTV reception as stable and predictable as they are used to with Analog. (Those that remember OTA NTSC anyway, so few not equipped with CATV or Satellite these days)

As usual, I will likely be one of the "early adopters" of PC HDTV (not as early as many, of course), but I sure look forward to the time when PC HDTV is as easy, robust and reliable as Digital Cable Ready / CableCARD Television seems to be from Cable Labs certification testing results.
HDTVGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2004, 12:21 PM   #26
Pitseleh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Pitseleh is still being judged by the masses


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Okay, so I'm a noob at the whole Pc-Tv tuning business. I'm going to be buying a completely new system (939 socket, X800XT, 2gigs ram, pretty much a gaming/media center) at the end of summer and this is really attractive, but I have a few questions.

1) Would a flat screen monitor offer digital tv output I.E. will my samsung SyncMasterTM 710T-Black be able to produce HDTV, or atleast high quality digital resolutions?

2) Will the card interfere with my X800XTPE?
Pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2004, 03:06 PM   #27
Hyrax
Rage3D Spammer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Somalia NJ
Posts: 29,366
Hyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyHyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyHyrax can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default Re: HDTV Wonder Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitseleh
1) Would a flat screen monitor offer digital tv output I.E. will my samsung SyncMasterTM 710T-Black be able to produce HDTV, or atleast high quality digital resolutions?

2) Will the card interfere with my X800XTPE?
For #1, it depends on the resolution of the monitor. My monitor only goes as high as 1020x768 or something like that. So If i receive something like a (1980i)? resolution, it will adjust to my monitor size, which would ultimately make the picture sharper.

(when taking pictures with my digital camera, pictures shrunk from a resolution like 2040x???, to my monitor size looks much better than a picture taken at my monitor size. )

#2

There should be no interferance with any videocard. ATI does reccomend a 9500+ videocard. And i think a 1.3+ gightz processor.
__________________
The Core Value: Non-Aggression :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperNovae View Post
Origin says if you are benchmarking or something to just call and they will help you out. God the horror, those poor souls. This is the type of orwellian nightmare Alex Jones told me about.
Hyrax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13, 2004, 02:30 AM   #28
AIWNow
Radeon R200
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 87
AIWNow is still being judged by the masses


Default Orderable at Buy.com

This may or may not mean anything about availability but, you can order the HDTV wonder at buy.com now.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...953&dcaid=1688
AIWNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 13, 2004, 01:53 PM   #29
jgs9455
Radeon R200
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 70
jgs9455 is still being judged by the masses


Default

I wonder if the $174 will be a good price when it comes out offically?
jgs9455 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2004, 11:45 AM   #30
mjclifford
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1
mjclifford is still being judged by the masses


Default New Post? Does the 8500 DV work the HDTV AIW?

First time not lurking on this board and could not find any FAQ for posting a new thread, so pressed Reply. Here goes..

Spent 70 minutes on ATI web site looking for info on the AIW HDTV Wonder card, if it worked with the 8500 DV. Heard that the 8500 may not have enough horsepower and/or not support a new video standard.

Can anybody help? Thanks in advance.

mjclifford
mjclifford is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to HDTV, is Samsung 32" LCD HDTV (LN-S3251D) any good? jlspec Home Theaters and Photography 5 Dec 26, 2006 05:25 PM
Replacing purple breakout box with HDTV adaptor for HDTV Wonder Redding AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support 1 Sep 13, 2005 08:38 PM
ATI HDTV Wonder Recordings and Eazyshare for HDTV Home Network Distribution FourDoor AIW / Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support 2 Nov 29, 2004 03:36 PM
HDTV and HDTV cables selection help please I KNOW GUN-FU Console Gaming 3 Aug 11, 2004 02:44 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com
Links monetized by VigLink