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Old Nov 13, 2019, 05:07 PM   #61
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It's so sad people can't be assholes to others without consequence.
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Old Nov 13, 2019, 05:32 PM   #62
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I love commenting without knowing context, or reading the whole thread, it's fun.

You could have read the single post before your "you people" post, and you'd have it, but that's too much work.
I watched the video and read a few posts but I didnt feel like reading the bickering back and forth.

So all that really matters is he said "you people" targeting a select group of people. Its not like he said some derogatory term. Hes simply singling out "those people" If youre offended maybe its because youre one of "those people"

Could he have said it in a nicer way? Probably. But I dont see anything wrong with saying you people.


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Its pretty clear [to me] he's talking about immigrants. But I guess I'm just more "woke" than the average bear.

Just a comment on this. Being woke is the all the rage these days. Being woke just means picking every little thing apart to bitch about something.


I dont know how the guy is supposed to get his opinion across if he cant single out who hes talking about?
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Old Nov 13, 2019, 05:38 PM   #63
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I watched the video and read a few posts but I didnt feel like reading the bickering back and forth.

So all that really matters is he said "you people" targeting a select group of people. Its not like he said some derogatory term. Hes simply singling out "those people" If youre offended maybe its because youre one of "those people"

Could he have said it in a nicer way? Probably. But I dont see anything wrong with saying you people.
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Old Nov 13, 2019, 10:53 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
Like I posted above, the full sentence that was problematic was:

You people that come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey.


Its pretty clear [to me] he's talking about immigrants. But I guess I'm just more "woke" than the average bear.
I actually think you're completely misinterpreting him, and ignoring alot of context offered from outside that one sentence. From what I can hear (he is a bit rambling), its actually this:

I was talking to a veteran, I said I’m not going to run the poppy thing again, because what’s the sense? I live in Mississauga [a suburb of Toronto], nobody wears the poppy, very few people wear the poppy. Downtown Toronto, forget it! Nobody wears the poppy. And I’m not going to [run the poppy thing].

And he says: "Now wait a minute, how ‘bout running [the poppy fundraiser] for the people who buy them?" [Ranting/rambling starts:] Now you go to the small cities, the rows and rows and rows, you people come here, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you could pay a couple of bucks for a poppy.


It's pretty clear that he's talking about people from big cities visiting small towns to get a taste of the small-town scene, and that nobody in the big cities wears the poppy. If I had to make a guess at the connection to the poppies, I might speculate that there's more folks from small towns who do military service than there are in the cities, and small-town folks appreciate veterans while city folks don't... that's definitely the case here in the states. I'll admit though, that I don't have any history with the man, nor do I usually understand Canadian culture, except where it's okay for the prime minister to dress in blackface.

I can see why there's confusion though... It's not easy to decipher his word salad.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 04:52 AM   #65
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The term 'you people' is a pejorative, meant to single out and demean a specific group, and not a way to address the general population. In this particular case, Cherry was calling out new Canadian immigrants ("You people that come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey.") for taking advantage of Canadian society whilst not wearing poppies, and pressuring them to be "patriotic" like he and his fellow "old stock" Canadians. It's not surprising that traditionalists, nationalists, and racists don't see anything wrong with what he's saying as it tends to accord with their own internal biases, making it seem "normal".
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 09:58 AM   #66
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Cherry makes a comment that doesn't specify anything about a RACE so how is it racist, but get's fired.

Trudeau dresses in blackface 3 or 4 times and get re-elected.

WTF?

One rule for thee, not for me it seems.

Hypocrisy seems to not matter too much.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:02 AM   #67
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The term 'you people' is a pejorative, meant to single out and demean a specific group, and not a way to address the general population. In this particular case, Cherry was calling out new Canadian immigrants ("You people that come here, whatever it is, you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey.") for taking advantage of Canadian society whilst not wearing poppies, and pressuring them to be "patriotic" like he and his fellow "old stock" Canadians. It's not surprising that traditionalists, nationalists, and racists don't see anything wrong with what he's saying as it tends to accord with their own internal biases, making it seem "normal".
This is pretty much how I feel as well.

I think Cherry could have gotten his opinion across just fine without being so specific towards a certain class of people, and he probably would still have his job.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:04 AM   #68
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Cherry makes a comment that doesn't specify anything about a RACE so how is it racist, but get's fired.

Trudeau dresses in blackface 3 or 4 times and get re-elected.

WTF?

One rule for thee, not for me it seems.

Hypocrisy seems to not matter too much.
More xenophobic than racist. Also, the Budweiser statement condemning what he said probably played a big part in his firing.

Money talks.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:05 AM   #69
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So sensitive. How would you suggest he politely single out those people? I mean, no matter how he says it its going to come across as negative cause hes singling out people he thinks are part of a bad group. Does it makes all those people who dont buy and wear poppys bad people? No, they just dont buy and wear poppys and thats shitty in his opinion.

Did you skip out on your poppy purchase? You might be one of the people who feel slighted by what he said.

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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:15 AM   #70
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So sensitive. How would you suggest he politely single out those people?
you dont single any group out anymore unless its positive or encouraging
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:17 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by X-Nemesis View Post
Cherry makes a comment that doesn't specify anything about a RACE so how is it racist, but get's fired.

Trudeau dresses in blackface 3 or 4 times and get re-elected.

WTF?

One rule for thee, not for me it seems.

Hypocrisy seems to not matter too much.
People like you and your kind are the worst kind of people imaginable, and nothing like us patriots.

There, I just made a bigoted generalization which may very well be racist, yet contains absolutely no obviously racist words. Racist and xenophobic speech often refrains from containing overtly racist language, instead relying on euphemisms like 'you people' instead of using 'immigrant', 'Muslim', or 'African'. Not going to comment on the Trudeau baiting... make a thread in P&R if you want to discuss that further.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:21 AM   #72
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this thread belongs in p&r now i think
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:22 AM   #73
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So sensitive. How would you suggest he politely single out those people? I mean, no matter how he says it its going to come across as negative cause hes singling out people he thinks are part of a bad group. Does it makes all those people who dont buy and wear poppys bad people? No, they just dont buy and wear poppys and thats shitty in his opinion.

Did you skip out on your poppy purchase? You might be one of the people who feel slighted by what he said.
Nope, don't feel slighted at all. I regularly donate to Veterans Affairs, among other charities.

But aside from the fact he didn't need to voice his particular opinion on it at all, he could have just said he wished more people would still buy them to help support veterans and that would have been fine. He did not need to go on a dumb xenophobic rant about it.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:23 AM   #74
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this thread belongs in p&r now i think
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:28 AM   #75
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you dont single any group out anymore unless its positive or encouraging
Oh god So we're no longer allowed to say anything thought to be negative to anyone anymore? How will people learn from their mistakes?

This is exactly what I call California mentality. No one here is ever straight forward and direct. People are allowed to have opinions and you're allowed to disagree with them. Moving from the east coast of the US to the west I really had to learn how to fit in. Being direct and the point was all I knew coming from Philly/South Jersey area. That type of mentality is the norm on the east but here on the west you kind of have to bend and find a nice way to say things to people even if they are wrong.

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People like you and your kind are the worst kind of people imaginable, and nothing like us patriots.

There, I just made a bigoted generalization which may very well be racist, yet contains absolutely no obviously racist words. Racist and xenophobic speech often refrains from containing overtly racist language, instead relying on euphemisms like 'you people' instead of using 'immigrant' or 'African'. Not going to comment on the Trudeau baiting... can make a thread in P&R if you want to discuss that further.
And if you said that to me Id be like cool. I agree to disagree. We can still be men about it and have a drink together knowing what I believe is different from what you believe. We dont have to draw a line there and say I can never speak to you again because Im not like you patriots and have different opinions.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:32 AM   #76
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You can still say whatever the hell you want but if its at your job prepare for backlash.

You wont go to jail or be executed for it but good luck with court of public opinion. Seems fair to me.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:35 AM   #77
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You can still say whatever the hell you want but if its at your job prepare for backlash.

You wont go to jail or be executed for it but good luck with court of public opinion. Seems fair to me.
I can agree with that. I dont know the guy but Id wager hes not heartbroken over what he said and he would probably say it again. He looks old enough that he doesnt give a **** if he gets his job back or not so I dont expect an apology.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:36 AM   #78
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... And if you said that to me Id be like cool. I agree to disagree. We can still be men about it and have a drink together knowing what I believe is different from what you believe. We dont have to draw a line there and say I can never speak to you again because Im not like you patriots and have different opinions.
Different expectations and standards apply in different contexts. If someone is on a public broadcast, it is generally expected that they don't alienate part of the audience (and potentially impact advertising revenue) by making such statements. However, if two people are in a bar somewhere talking, then that's different... though I'd still call what Cherry said a form of bigotry, just shared privately instead of broadcast publicly.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:40 AM   #79
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I can agree with that. I dont know the guy but Id wager hes not heartbroken over what he said and he would probably say it again. He looks old enough that he doesnt give a **** if he gets his job back or not so I dont expect an apology.
Yeah I think he doubled-down on it, has no regrets.

Hey, I'll be fair. I wouldn't doubt he truly didn't mean to target a specific class of people, and was just trying to get his message across that he wished all people in general would wear a poppy. But he's an older guy from a different time when talk was much looser. Times have changed.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:46 AM   #80
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I feel like nobody bothered to read my post (above) where I transcribed his whole statement. If you're interested in any context beyond just the phrase "you people", it's pretty clear that he's complaining about the fact that people living in big cities don't respect veterans enough to buy & wear poppies, and those are the "you people" he's talking about.

You guys who are reading racism into this are just finding what you want to see.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:46 AM   #81
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Different expectations and standards apply in different contexts. If someone is on a public broadcast, it is generally expected that they don't alienate part of the audience (and potentially impact advertising revenue) by making such statements. However, if two people are in a bar somewhere talking, then that's different... though I'd still call what Cherry said a form of bigotry, just shared privately instead of broadcast publicly.
Im not so sure about that. His opinion stays his opinion whether or not hes on TV or in a bar with you. So why must you dislike him more cause he said it to a million people on tv versus just you in a bar?

If youre the TV exec who hires and fires him yes it matters cause it can affect your bottom line.

But if youre plain old logical or 12Bass listening to the broadcast it shouldnt matter. You seem to suggest that if you saw him in a bar right now you couldnt have a beer with him because he said his opinion to a million people on broadcast instead of just you and him chatting.


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Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
I feel like nobody bothered to read my post (above) where I transcribed his whole statement. If you're interested in any context beyond just the phrase "you people", it's pretty clear that he's complaining about the fact that people living in big cities don't respect veterans enough to buy & wear poppies, and those are the "you people" he's talking about.

You guys who are reading racism into this are just finding what you want to see.
I think we are beyond that now. It doesnt matter who he is singling out at this point, its just that he singled out some people at all. Apparently singling out a group of people is frowned upon these days.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:48 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Im not so sure about that. His opinion stays his opinion whether or not hes on TV or in a bar with you. So why must you dislike him more cause he said it to a million people on tv versus just you in a bar?

If youre the TV exec who hires and fires him yes it matters cause it can affect your bottom line.

But if youre plain old logical or 12Bass listening to the broadcast it shouldnt matter. You seem to suggest that if you saw him in a bar right now you couldnt have a beer with him because he said his opinion to a million people on broadcast instead of just you and him chatting.
Virtue-signaling means you can't have a beer with him.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:49 AM   #83
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the biggest shame in all of this is the canadian forces looses its biggest public supporter. something that all the social justice warriors neglect to see or care about. If you werent so distracted over abortion or a free penis, you would look at the cdn forces budget or the sea kings that are seeking the ground, or our diesel subs that catch fire or the shitty barracks our soldiers live in and say **** me, we really dont give a **** about our troops.

Sure we talk alot of ****, but a poppy once a year and parade out our boys and girls before a game but when it comes time for real support we give them the finger. Shouldnt need to remind my fellow cdns that we took our own beach in normandy. So cherry was right imo, just wrong in singling out newcomers when he should have been singling everyone in this country
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:55 AM   #84
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..... or a free penis...





Free penises(penii?) lmao for all canadians
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 10:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
I feel like nobody bothered to read my post (above) where I transcribed his whole statement. If you're interested in any context beyond just the phrase "you people", it's pretty clear that he's complaining about the fact that people living in big cities don't respect veterans enough to buy & wear poppies, and those are the "you people" he's talking about.

You guys who are reading racism into this are just finding what you want to see.
I read your post. I just continue to feel the same about it.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 11:02 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by logical View Post
Im not so sure about that. His opinion stays his opinion whether or not hes on TV or in a bar with you. So why must you dislike him more cause he said it to a million people on tv versus just you in a bar?

If youre the TV exec who hires and fires him yes it matters cause it can affect your bottom line.

But if youre plain old logical or 12Bass listening to the broadcast it shouldnt matter. You seem to suggest that if you saw him in a bar right now you couldnt have a beer with him because he said his opinion to a million people on broadcast instead of just you and him chatting.
The opinion doesn't change. What changes is that certain standards apply to public broadcast. Those standards do not apply in general interpersonal interactions, or only do so informally... e.g. if you start making racist comments in a bar, you may find yourself beaten and lying in a gutter outside... or maybe find that you are among friends!
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 11:02 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logical View Post
Im not so sure about that. His opinion stays his opinion whether or not hes on TV or in a bar with you. So why must you dislike him more cause he said it to a million people on tv versus just you in a bar?

If youre the TV exec who hires and fires him yes it matters cause it can affect your bottom line.

But if youre plain old logical or 12Bass listening to the broadcast it shouldnt matter. You seem to suggest that if you saw him in a bar right now you couldnt have a beer with him because he said his opinion to a million people on broadcast instead of just you and him chatting.




I think we are beyond that now. It doesnt matter who he is singling out at this point, its just that he singled out some people at all. Apparently singling out a group of people is frowned upon these days.
You can't see the difference of using his platform to millions of people as a bully pulpit vs just spouting his opinion in a bar?

He used his platform to single out immigrants, and people are actually defending him, it's insanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy10 View Post
the biggest shame in all of this is the canadian forces looses its biggest public supporter. something that all the social justice warriors neglect to see or care about. If you werent so distracted over abortion or a free penis, you would look at the cdn forces budget or the sea kings that are seeking the ground, or our diesel subs that catch fire or the shitty barracks our soldiers live in and say **** me, we really dont give a **** about our troops.

Sure we talk alot of ****, but a poppy once a year and parade out our boys and girls before a game but when it comes time for real support we give them the finger. Shouldnt need to remind my fellow cdns that we took our own beach in normandy. So cherry was right imo, just wrong in singling out newcomers when he should have been singling everyone in this country
Forced patriotism isn't patriotism, it's fascism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
I feel like nobody bothered to read my post (above) where I transcribed his whole statement. If you're interested in any context beyond just the phrase "you people", it's pretty clear that he's complaining about the fact that people living in big cities don't respect veterans enough to buy & wear poppies, and those are the "you people" he's talking about.

You guys who are reading racism into this are just finding what you want to see.
I read your post. I think you're the confused one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
Virtue-signaling means you can't have a beer with him.

You know what's worse than virtue signaling? The people who think everything is virtue signaling.
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You guys are closet communists.

Last edited by Elysian : Nov 14, 2019 at 11:08 AM.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 11:08 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Meteor_of_War View Post
I read your post. I just continue to feel the same about it.
Fair enough, you can feel any way you want about anything someone says. The fact that he didn't actually say what you "feel" he said shouldn't change your feelings on it.
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To be honest I never even found doom 3 to be scary since I have a big dick since birth.

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Old Nov 14, 2019, 11:11 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by SubCog View Post
Fair enough, you can feel any way you want about anything someone says. The fact that he didn't actually say what you "feel" he said shouldn't change your feelings on it.
Irony.
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Old Nov 14, 2019, 11:19 AM   #90
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Fair enough, you can feel any way you want about anything someone says. The fact that he didn't actually say what you "feel" he said shouldn't change your feelings on it.
I just don't agree with that, and I don't think its valuable to anyone here's time to discuss further what's already been discussed.

I will quickly reiterate though, that I did already state I don't doubt he was not consciously INTENDING to single out any specific class of people. But it just came out naturally due to his old fashioned bigotry. I'll also say, that the main difference in opinion here is largely between people with empathy for others and people without. To YOU it may not seem offensive, but that does not mean it also does not to the targeted person or people. I am arguing in favor of those people.
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