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Old Jan 1, 2019, 04:01 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
What you said makes no sense at all. There is nothing wrong with saying some games are garbage while others are great games.
Sure, but there is an issue when you criticize the store for displaying games just because you've deemed those games as garbage. Your criticism of the steam store has made little sense ..
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Old Jan 2, 2019, 02:47 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
With So many games coming in daily every new game gets significantly less time on Steams front page. With 8500 less games a year on the store front the other 500 can get more exposure and for longer on Steams store

And it is a steam problem, and it will only get worse. No doubt theyll get 11000 to 12000 new games this year, then 13000 to 15000 new games the year after that, and15000 to 18000 new games year after that... How can you not see that as a problem? How can you not see how Steam is becoming a bad place and a bad deal for the good indie developers?

It is going to be an even bigger problem for Steam if the AAA developers don't come back, and the good indie developers leave Steam.
You are completely missing the point by not addressing the notion that there are still hundreds if not thousands of good games coming onto the store. You're not going to get prime quality airtime just because your game is good. Marketing is not free, and relying on word-of-mouth is very, very risky. It's been known for years that only the top (very low number) percent of games are financially sane endeavors.
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Old Jan 2, 2019, 05:43 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
The same can be said about Steams 125 million accounts.

A curated store with all of its faults is still far better then a Store that lets 9000+ games on ( and growing that number by 2000 to 3000 per year) where the vast majority are objectively garbage.

I never claimed it was any better, but I'm not the one quoting 200 million as though it means anything. However at least we know the Steam figures solely relate to PC users and do not include users on every current platform and they do at least publish stats on a very regular basis.

You're still using personal opinion as fact rather than actually using facts to make your case. How do you define objectively garbage especially in relation to 1000's of games you've never played?

Point and click adventures stopped getting top review scores in the early 90's, but plenty of people still enjoy playing them.

Or maybe it's by game length, plenty of people say games are rubbish if they only offer a few hours of focused story led gameplay instead of 50+ hours of repetitive gameplay with a tacked on story.
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Old Jan 2, 2019, 11:51 AM   #124
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User numbers, whether on Steam or Epic, mean next to nothing since they are both free-to-enter accounts. There are likely significant numbers of duplicates, dead accounts, trolling accounts, whatever... to say that Epic's 200 million Fortnite players is a real market ready to buy games is dubious. At least people know Steam is a store and it's well known across multiple genres, generations, interests and play levels. If my kids and my friend's kids are any indication, the vast majority of Fortnite's active accounts are 10 year olds with no money anyway and zero interest in anything on their store.

I'm not trying to say that Epic will fail, but I'm also not totally convinced they are really in the game yet. That said, they may realize that Fortnite will not live forever and if they don't have another game of this size in the future, they will need something to keep the income flowing. Time will tell whether they can do what Valve and CD Project have done already.
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Old Jan 3, 2019, 11:05 AM   #125
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It sounds to me like the real problem is too many games. Either people get discouraged about not making money and drop out (whether their games were good or not), or people will just have to get used to making games as a hobby. I'm not sure what else to say about that? The truth is there are too many small indie games for them to be adequately supported by the gaming market. Even if you somehow removed all the crap, there may be too many "good" games even for that.

I would like to think that a truly amazing game will still find a way to break out, but that might just be naïve optimism on my part.

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User numbers, whether on Steam or Epic, mean next to nothing since they are both free-to-enter accounts. There are likely significant numbers of duplicates, dead accounts, trolling accounts, whatever... to say that Epic's 200 million Fortnite players is a real market ready to buy games is dubious. At least people know Steam is a store and it's well known across multiple genres, generations, interests and play levels. If my kids and my friend's kids are any indication, the vast majority of Fortnite's active accounts are 10 year olds with no money anyway and zero interest in anything on their store.

I'm not trying to say that Epic will fail, but I'm also not totally convinced they are really in the game yet. That said, they may realize that Fortnite will not live forever and if they don't have another game of this size in the future, they will need something to keep the income flowing. Time will tell whether they can do what Valve and CD Project have done already.
To be fair, Steam probably has a decent share of 10 year olds playing free games like TF2 or Counter Strike too. It would actually be interesting to know what the average annual spending of a Steam account is. Of course, Valve probably won't tell us that.
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Old Jan 3, 2019, 03:57 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
It sounds to me like the real problem is too many games. Either people get discouraged about not making money and drop out (whether their games were good or not), or people will just have to get used to making games as a hobby. I'm not sure what else to say about that? The truth is there are too many small indie games for them to be adequately supported by the gaming market. Even if you somehow removed all the crap, there may be too many "good" games even for that.

I would like to think that a truly amazing game will still find a way to break out, but that might just be naïve optimism on my part.
It's a bit of a catch-22, so to speak. I appreciate that so many games are on Steam, but I don't enjoy searching for games on Steam in the "traditional" sense. What I do enjoy, though, are things that Steam does well: Watching my friend's feed on what they are buying/wish-listing/playing and checking those games out. I also appreciate that if I hear about a game on a stream, video or a forum (such as Rage3D), I can typically go to Steam and type the name in and "poof", there it is.

In a lot of ways, Steam is like a Library. I don't like to browse in Libraries, but I appreciate the sheer amount of content they have. But like a Library, I have to have some idea what I'm looking for or the experience will be lacklustre.

Epic is more like those awful Take-a-book/Leave-a-book stands in front of people's houses. Sure there may be a couple decent books in there, but the selection isn't vast and there is no way to know before you walk down the block that there are books in there you'll enjoy.

Quote:
To be fair, Steam probably has a decent share of 10 year olds playing free games like TF2 or Counter Strike too. It would actually be interesting to know what the average annual spending of a Steam account is. Of course, Valve probably won't tell us that.
Oh absolutely. Steam/Epic/Origin/UPlay... all those sites are probably full of trash accounts that will never buy a single game.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 11:18 AM   #127
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Looks like the division 2 will not be on steam.

Quote:
Shots have been fired today in the digital distribution platform war as Ubisoft shuns Steam in favour of Epic Games.

While the recently launched Epic Games Store hasn't had much trouble attracting smaller indie developers, this exclusive agreement on such a high-profile AAA title represents a serious coup over Steam.

Furthermore, it has been announced that Ubisoft and Epic will partner on "additional select titles" over the coming year.

The partnership will see PC version of The Division 2 available only on the Epic Games Store, and directly from Ubisoft.

Ubisoft confirmed that pre-orders placed on other platforms would be unaffected by the decision.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...the-division-2
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 11:38 AM   #128
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I wouldnt buy it on steam anyway. Makes no sense when Ubi has their own launcher and Im on there anyway for AC games. Its going to be interesting to see if Ubi puts out public numbers on how many were sold on Epics platforms vs Steam.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 11:48 AM   #129
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I more concerned about future games not even being available on sites like gmg, having them only being available through uplay and epic store is no bueno.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 12:07 PM   #130
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well ****. i was lookin forward to it too
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 12:22 PM   #131
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I got The Division 2 for free from the AMD promotion. No ****s given here.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 01:23 PM   #132
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I more concerned about future games not even being available on sites like gmg, having them only being available through uplay and epic store is no bueno.
Thats where its heading anyway. Thats why Epic, EA, Blizz, and Ubi have their own clients. The only reason it hasnt happened quicker is because those companies cant ween all of the player base off of steam because Steam offers so many games and already has a user base that is pretty much locked in if you have an extensive amount of games on there. It'll probably take at least a decade more for a new generation of kids/gamers to start their gaming in one of the newer clients so that Steam can slowly die if ever.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 06:20 PM   #133
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I got The Division 2 for free from the AMD promotion. No ****s given here.
Same.

I have Division 1 on Uplay null sweat on 2 being there too.

Now if they start getting squirrely and the promo issues us a Epic Store key instead of a Uplay key that's when the fight starts
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 06:42 PM   #134
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I'm actually surprised the game publishers were so slow to set up their own digital stores back in the day. Valve really had a good vision in terms of anticipating the future.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 08:12 PM   #135
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I wonder how much money Epic can keep throwing around. They are desperate to start an online store. There's no way Ubi is doing for this for the 12% extra they save without being on Steam when they could easily just offer it on their own store exclusively and keep 100%. They're doing this because Epic is offering some backroom deal for exclusivity. Hell must be freezing over that I would rather buy a game on UPlay than somewhere else
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 08:19 PM   #136
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I've bought several games direct from Uplay. They often have pretty good sales; just no one knows about them because no one uses Uplay. I think I bought Far Cry 4 with all DLC for $7 about two years ago.

And then they had the giveaway where they gave out a free game every week for 12 weeks. Trying to push through Ass Creed IV right now because of that.

I do not appreciate Epic's tactics. I read in comments on a RPS article about The Division 2 not coming to Steam... Someone put it perfectly. Competing by locking in exclusives is not competing. It's a dick move.

That said, I've stopped buying Uplay games from Steam a while ago because dual client BS, and will follow suit in the future.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 10:31 PM   #137
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I would LOVE an app that connects all the friends/communities from all these apps together.
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Old Jan 9, 2019, 10:37 PM   #138
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I would LOVE an app that connects all the friends/communities from all these apps together.
Epic is basically working on that
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/b...rvices-roadmap
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 04:31 AM   #139
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I wonder how much money Epic can keep throwing around. They are desperate to start an online store.
I think it's a genius move. Epic is really establishing itself as a strong player in the market, and they're undoubtedly funding it with Fortnite money.

They were already a powerhouse because of the Unreal engine. They smartly coupled that with a store allowing creators to toy with the Unreal engine at relatively low costs, so much so that between Unreal engine and Unity, it's become increasingly rare for small developers to build their own technology.

Then with Fortnite on every platform imaginable, Epic has an essentially unlimited budget for a limited time. So long as a ton of money comes in through Fortnite, they can do what they want, with the only caveat being Fortnite's popularity (or rather, profitability) may decline at any moment.

Using the game engine they already had, the (rough) Store they already had, and the finances to afford a strong push, they're now ensuring a future for themselves in yet another avenue (third party publishing). And honestly, the only thing they have to do to make the Epic Store a reliable source of income for a long period of time (holy grail of any business), is build a player base.

I am pretty sure that Sweeney and co have thought this through pretty well, and I'm confident they'll do well in the long term.

I am not happy with exclusives as a gamer though.
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 10:48 AM   #140
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I think it's a genius move. ...

Using the game engine they already had, the (rough) Store they already had, and the finances to afford a strong push, they're now ensuring a future for themselves in yet another avenue (third party publishing). And honestly, the only thing they have to do to make the Epic Store a reliable source of income for a long period of time (holy grail of any business), is build a player base.

I am pretty sure that Sweeney and co have thought this through pretty well, and I'm confident they'll do well in the long term.

I am not happy with exclusives as a gamer though.
I totally agree with all your points. As a consumer I don't enjoy this at all... I've been hating on this since Origin popped up and split my games/friends/profile/etc. across so many platforms. Epic knows Fortnite is "the ****" right now, but it WILL (hopefully) eventually die out. They have grown accustomed to their richer lifestyle, so absolutely need to pull a Valve and create a platform where they can generate long-term revenue.

As you say, I don't think any of us begrudge Epic for trying to make a new shop. If they can do it better, then they deserve it. But the reason I hate Origin, didn't buy Fallout '76 and the reason I'm not happy with Epic is I don't like exclusives. Let me buy the game on the platform I prefer.

The same **** is happening in the streaming market too... it will either come crashing down, will continue to split communities or will send people back to piracy.
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 11:04 AM   #141
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I got The Division 2 for free from the AMD promotion. No ****s given here.
Which promo?
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 12:04 PM   #142
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Which promo?
You don't buy AMD hardware so it wouldn't matter.

But if you bought the RX 570 or 580 you get 2 free games If you buy an RX 590 a Vega 56 or 64 you get 3 free games.

The Division 2
Devil May Cry 5
Resident Evil 2 Remake

Are the current offerings.
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 03:19 PM   #143
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Currently free on the Epic Store: What Remains of Edith Finch
Currently free through Humble: A Story about my Uncle

My back log is increasing faster and faster through all these free games. I don't think I need buy another game at all anymore this year.
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Old Jan 10, 2019, 03:53 PM   #144
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I totally agree with all your points. As a consumer I don't enjoy this at all... I've been hating on this since Origin popped up and split my games/friends/profile/etc. across so many platforms. Epic knows Fortnite is "the ****" right now, but it WILL (hopefully) eventually die out. They have grown accustomed to their richer lifestyle, so absolutely need to pull a Valve and create a platform where they can generate long-term revenue.

As you say, I don't think any of us begrudge Epic for trying to make a new shop. If they can do it better, then they deserve it. But the reason I hate Origin, didn't buy Fallout '76 and the reason I'm not happy with Epic is I don't like exclusives. Let me buy the game on the platform I prefer.

The same **** is happening in the streaming market too... it will either come crashing down, will continue to split communities or will send people back to piracy.
If Battle Royale goes out of style, then Epic will just make another game mode for what ever replaces Battle Royal, that is the most logical thing for them to do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David O. McKay
The home is the first and most effective place to learn the lessons of life: truth, honor, virtue, self control, the value of education, honest work, and the purpose and privilege of life. Nothing can take the place of home in rearing and teaching children, and no other success can compensate for failure in the home.
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Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.
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Old Jan 11, 2019, 08:42 AM   #145
zizbuka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
Here is an example of a great indie game that clearly did not get enough exposure and deserves to get better exposure and sales than what it got.

This game released earlier this year and I never even saw it on Steam, it got missed in the pile of garbage. The only reason I found out about this game is because I got it free with Twitch Prime.

I have been playing it for the last couple of days and it is a fantastic game, and if it wasn't for Twitch Prime I most likely would not have ever found out about this game.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/6...and_Sacrifice/

Ghost of a Tale was another game that I didn't know about from Steam, and never saw it on Steam in my search, or it was easily missed some how, I ended up finding about it on GoG.

Death Squared, fun game I play with my son, didn't know about it till I got it for free on Twitch Prime
Same with Steamworld Dig and Adventure Pals (another game I play with my son)
Looks like a meh game to me. And definitely not worth $24.99. I can see why it didn't do well.
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Old Jan 11, 2019, 08:23 PM   #146
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Epic Games Store now allows refunds 'for any reason'


"If you bought it from the Epic Store, you can claim a refund as long as the request is made within 14 days of purchase, and the game has less than two hours of playtime on it." (source)
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Old Jan 11, 2019, 08:57 PM   #147
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Not sure why that's news.
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Old Jan 11, 2019, 09:22 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdaddy79 View Post
Not sure why that's news.
Yeah, isn't that pretty much standard? Also does Steam have a 14 day limit? I thought it was anytime as long as it was under 2hrs?
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Old Jan 11, 2019, 09:51 PM   #149
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It's the same policy as Steam.

Last edited by Mahjik : Jan 11, 2019 at 09:57 PM.
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Old Jan 12, 2019, 12:00 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Crawdaddy79 View Post
Not sure why that's news.
Because previously it was announced that you would only get 2 refunds tokens right away on your account, and then you would get 1 more refund token added every year you bought something in that year.
Many people didn't like that, so they changed it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by David O. McKay
The home is the first and most effective place to learn the lessons of life: truth, honor, virtue, self control, the value of education, honest work, and the purpose and privilege of life. Nothing can take the place of home in rearing and teaching children, and no other success can compensate for failure in the home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.
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