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Old Jul 3, 2018, 12:56 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62379...ech/index.html

there goes my ryzen & threadripper motherboards
10 years and they've only managed to double the bandwidth?!

What a rip >:E
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Old Jul 3, 2018, 01:13 AM   #92
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Id doubt they would put out a gpu that only works on pcie4. Must be backwards compat...
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Old Jul 3, 2018, 03:54 AM   #93
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Id doubt they would put out a gpu that only works on pcie4. Must be backwards compat...
Quote:
Like the previous PCIe iterations, PCIe 4.0 features backwards compatibility, and PCIe 1.x, 2.x, and 3.x cards will fit PCIe 4.0 slots and operate normally. PCIe 4.0 also maintains PCIe 3.0’s 128b/130b encoding, which will continue to be used in PCIe 5.0.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11967...s-pcie-40-spec
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Old Jul 3, 2018, 03:05 PM   #94
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just a die shrink from 14nm to 7nm should get them a good bit higher clock speed plus the memory bandwidth increase


and if this is even close it is not just a die shrink




https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-vega-20...-leaked-up-to/

vega 64 is the same or I bit faster than a 1080 non ti

so at this point if it does not beat a 1080 ti why build it
who is going to buy a card slower or the same speed as a 18 month old card by the time vega 20 gaming hits

unless they sell it for a lot less than a 1080 ti and with 16gb of hbm2 I don't see that happing


Impressive that at 1 Ghz, Vega 20 at 7nm is in the same performance ballpark as Vega 10 at 14nm, assuming the article isn't B/S'ing and it could mean that there's a lot more hardware in the 7nm version all nicely running in parallel, be it shaders and / or texture units and / or Rops as well as cache sizes being larger as well......All of this is possible with the transition to the much smaller fab process and Nvidia is fully able to do the same if it too has the 7nm process from TSMC to play with.


Since AMD has working silicon of Vega 20, and also has engineering samples of 3rd generation Ryzen at 7nm in the labs, despite the official launch being only next year, they've got a nice head start using that fab process, so the question is if Nvidia will simply introduce a revised Pascal chip ( the name Turing and Ampere is also floating about ), and will it also be a 7nm part......


Then there is this, which surprised the heck out of me to be honest:


https://www.extremetech.com/computin...es-can-provide


Seems that dual sourcing is now the norm, and fab processes are now so similar that a given processor design can be built at either Global or TSMC, when we're talking about CPU's or GPU's, but in any case the largest customers are the usual culprits.... Mobile SOC's basically, are the main fab process pipe cleaners since the 20nm process.



So If Nvidia's GTX1180 is also a 7nm part, the 3d mark results above aren't so shocking when it comes to Vega 20 at 7nm since Nvidia has the means to do the same or even better.
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Old Jul 3, 2018, 04:47 PM   #95
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This is just beginning to sound like Fury and Vega all over again. The 7nm part is a RADEON INSTINCT card so please don't go hypothesizing that there will be a gaming card as well.

Navi by all accounts is a mid-range card and the next enthusiast AMD is 'next gen' in most likely 2020. Is this just too much information for some of you to process? Simples really. No AMD enthusiast card until 2020.

I'll bide my time by buying an XBX 1 (with an iPad air trade in I can get it for about £200 used) and play in 4K on my 50' TV so I can gauge whether I like 4K gaming or not as I have no intention of upgrading my 1440p 144hz freesync monitor anytime soon.

Personally I don't think AMD are bothered with having the fastest enthusiast card and will leave that crown to Nvidia for the foreseeable future and will be happy with high end e.g. Vega performance versus enthusiast 1080ti performance in 'next gen'. Just my 2c's worth.
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Old Jul 3, 2018, 05:09 PM   #96
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Nunz, thats what I got atm... My GPUZ validation doesn't account for the boost differential when overclocking so its about 13Mhz off from where its running on the sensor screen.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details/8q372 <--- This is a bug validation submission.. Not public... till now. lol.

Was inching up on the HBM2 and core clocks during bench runs when I noticed the bug.
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Old Jul 5, 2018, 10:41 PM   #97
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Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62379...ech/index.html

there goes my ryzen & threadripper motherboards
You barely need more than PCIE 2.0 right now, provided you're on a 3x slot. So hardly any reason to toss your current mobo over it.
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Old Jul 5, 2018, 10:43 PM   #98
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Personally I don't think AMD are bothered with having the fastest enthusiast card and will leave that crown to Nvidia for the foreseeable future and will be happy with high end e.g. Vega performance versus enthusiast 1080ti performance in 'next gen'. Just my 2c's worth.
I think they're probably bothered about it, but they know that currently it's out of reach. They can "pre-overclock" their cards to get them into competition in a given segment, but that strategy obviously runs out of steam at the very top end.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 09:31 AM   #99
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You barely need more than PCIE 2.0 right now, provided you're on a 3x slot. So hardly any reason to toss your current mobo over it.
This. PCIe speed only matters when you're trying to reduce lane count for high bandwidth embedded devices (10GB Ethernet, 802.11ad wireless, etc.)
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 09:36 AM   #100
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I think they're probably bothered about it, but they know that currently it's out of reach. They can "pre-overclock" their cards to get them into competition in a given segment, but that strategy obviously runs out of steam at the very top end.
I'd like to see AMD put out a big Polaris chip as a stopgap. Go nuts with the hardware... 512-bit GDDR6, 3 8-pin PCIe connectors, 3 or 4 slot air cooler. Call it the Radeon 690X ZFG edition.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 10:13 AM   #101
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I'd like to see AMD put out a big Polaris chip as a stopgap. Go nuts with the hardware... 512-bit GDDR6, 3 8-pin PCIe connectors, 3 or 4 slot air cooler. Call it the Radeon 690X ZFG edition.



I'd make that a product line.

RX 590 ZFG
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Clock em to the hilt and boom. 500W power draw on the RX Vega? Who cares?

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Old Jul 6, 2018, 10:26 AM   #102
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Theres quite a few online who want another polaris but its the previous arch to Vega. All they need to do is put a new gddr6 memory controller on vega and pump that out. Probably be cheaper than making a whole new big polaris chip.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 12:47 PM   #103
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Theres quite a few online who want another polaris but its the previous arch to Vega. All they need to do is put a new gddr6 memory controller on vega and pump that out. Probably be cheaper than making a whole new big polaris chip.
The problem with Vega is that none of the Vega-specific GCN features really helped that much. Most of the gains over Polaris are due to improved clockspeed and memory bandwidth vs. pipeline efficiency. Throwing 12nm and GDDR6 at Polaris would give it a big boost without all the HBM2 stupidity.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 12:48 PM   #104
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I'd like to see AMD put out a big Polaris chip as a stopgap. Go nuts with the hardware... 512-bit GDDR6, 3 8-pin PCIe connectors, 3 or 4 slot air cooler. Call it the Radeon 690X ZFG edition.


Funny thing with this is what's happening today with the trade war between the US and china...… It's only at it's first steps and may get much worse, but Micron is one of the GDDR6 makers out there and they are based in china and just received a tax penalty that officially started 2 hours ago, which includes it's memory products.


Sk Hynix is the other GDDR6 maker and they too have factories in China, but also in the US and Taiwan and Korea.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 02:00 PM   #105
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Funny thing with this is what's happening today with the trade war between the US and china...… It's only at it's first steps and may get much worse, but Micron is one of the GDDR6 makers out there and they are based in china and just received a tax penalty that officially started 2 hours ago, which includes it's memory products.


Sk Hynix is the other GDDR6 maker and they too have factories in China, but also in the US and Taiwan and Korea.
So you export the memory modules to Taiwan or Vietnam and assemble the cards there. China skirts US tariffs on metals by using Mexico as an intermediary. Except theft on the Mexican side is so severe that it's really cutting into their profit margins.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 03:19 PM   #106
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So you export the memory modules to Taiwan or Vietnam and assemble the cards there. China skirts US tariffs on metals by using Mexico as an intermediary. Except theft on the Mexican side is so severe that it's really cutting into their profit margins.

I suppose Vietnam is doable in that they have very cheap labour costs just like china, but that's far from the case in Taiwan though, as their quality of life and earnings is actually quite high.


The US also wants to set tariffs with Mexico too, but while the Metals aren't coming from the latter, using it as an intermediate will likely be noticed in all the transportation / customs paperwork and tariffs still applied.
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 09:48 PM   #107
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The problem with Vega is that none of the Vega-specific GCN features really helped that much. Most of the gains over Polaris are due to improved clockspeed and memory bandwidth vs. pipeline efficiency. Throwing 12nm and GDDR6 at Polaris would give it a big boost without all the HBM2 stupidity.
FP16 alone helps and will probably be part of the next nvidia gen...
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Old Jul 6, 2018, 11:13 PM   #108
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Funny thing with this is what's happening today with the trade war between the US and china...… It's only at it's first steps and may get much worse, but Micron is one of the GDDR6 makers out there and they are based in china and just received a tax penalty that officially started 2 hours ago, which includes it's memory products.


Sk Hynix is the other GDDR6 maker and they too have factories in China, but also in the US and Taiwan and Korea.
I am not sure where you are getting your information on Micron, but they are a United states based company In Boise Idaho, which is where they where founded as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micron_Technology
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Old Jul 7, 2018, 02:56 AM   #109
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I am not sure where you are getting your information on Micron, but they are a United states based company In Boise Idaho, which is where they where founded as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micron_Technology
In regards to tariffs it doesn't really matter where a company is based, it just matters where the products are coming from. That being said, it's too hard at this point to fully figure out what impact the tariffs will have. If it kicks off a full scale trade war, it probably won't be pretty, but beyond that we'll have to wait and see.
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Old Jul 7, 2018, 11:59 AM   #110
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I am not sure where you are getting your information on Micron, but they are a United states based company In Boise Idaho, which is where they where founded as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micron_Technology
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
In regards to tariffs it doesn't really matter where a company is based, it just matters where the products are coming from. That being said, it's too hard at this point to fully figure out what impact the tariffs will have. If it kicks off a full scale trade war, it probably won't be pretty, but beyond that we'll have to wait and see.


There's this to worry about if a full blown trade war follows:


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/mark...cid=spartanntp


US imports more from china than china does from the US, so tariffs imposed on china can potentially hurt more them than the US, but China also has 1.2 trillion $ in US treasuries ( basically US debt they collect interest on ), so if they cash those in you'll see one hell of a record deficit incoming on the US end....This can get nasty in the short and medium term.
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Old Jul 7, 2018, 12:59 PM   #111
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Total US debt is 21 trillion so not sure itd be that big an impact tho it might blip the rate short term.

But a trade war would be to all tech what mining was to gpus... Prices on just about everything pc would go up...
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Old Jul 7, 2018, 02:01 PM   #112
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There's this to worry about if a full blown trade war follows:


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/mark...cid=spartanntp


US imports more from china than china does from the US, so tariffs imposed on china can potentially hurt more them than the US, but China also has 1.2 trillion $ in US treasuries ( basically US debt they collect interest on ), so if they cash those in you'll see one hell of a record deficit incoming on the US end....This can get nasty in the short and medium term.
tell them to pound sand we're about even now
https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/i..._american.html



https://www.quora.com/After-World-Wa...-United-States
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Old Jul 7, 2018, 10:03 PM   #113
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Total US debt is 21 trillion so not sure itd be that big an impact tho it might blip the rate short term.

But a trade war would be to all tech what mining was to gpus... Prices on just about everything pc would go up...


1.2 trillion is a little above 30% the US tax federal revenu for the entire year ( 3.676 trillion collected on taxes ), and those 1.2 trillion can easily finance the military ( 614 billion by itself ), the income security ( 314 billion ), and the interest on the debt itself ( 303 billion ).

http://www.usdebtclock.org/#



Loot a further bit down and there's the amount of debt that countries that the US owes $$$$ too ( 6.2 trillion ), since trump also want penalties with south America, Europe and Asia in general not just china.


Last time the US had a surplus on it's budget was in 2000 and hasn't had one since and keeps on getting buried even deeper, with the projections in 4 years time looking like this:



http://www.usdebtclock.org/cbo-omb-g...estimates.html



Instead of 300 billion in interest yearly, it's 600 billion by then and the deficit won't be 781 billion like now, but over 1 trillion in just 4 years from now is the predicted value, with the overall debt having climbed to 24~25 trillion in total, instead of 21 trillion.



Deep ****?.... Yup.
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Old Jul 8, 2018, 03:21 AM   #114
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Total US debt is 21 trillion so not sure itd be that big an impact tho it might blip the rate short term.

But a trade war would be to all tech what mining was to gpus... Prices on just about everything pc would go up...
I suppose it would be ironic if PC components end up being cheaper in Canada for a change.

But yeah, that would suck if we were to get tariffs on tech. In a sane world I'd say it wouldn't happen, but...
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Old Jul 8, 2018, 05:43 AM   #115
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I suppose it would be ironic if PC components end up being cheaper in Canada for a change.

But yeah, that would suck if we were to get tariffs on tech. In a sane world I'd say it wouldn't happen, but...
actually when ati was canadian owned gfx cards were alot cheaper, finding oem specials was super easy at all the local shops in toronto
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Old Jul 8, 2018, 12:16 PM   #116
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I suppose it would be ironic if PC components end up being cheaper in Canada for a change.

But yeah, that would suck if we were to get tariffs on tech. In a sane world I'd say it wouldn't happen, but...
Oh no retailers in Canada have their own tax in comparison to any and all US prices. But how far they can take it no one knows. I do think Ill be risking buying on taobao or wish a lot more if prices dont moderate.
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Old Jul 9, 2018, 12:12 AM   #117
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I just hope AMD shifts its final assy back to Malaysia and evades all this Tariff crap.
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Old Jul 12, 2018, 06:26 PM   #118
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AMD 7nm Vega 20 GPU Estimated To Feature 20 TFLOPs of Compute – A HPC Powerhouse in The Making, 32 GB of HBM2 VRAM, Up To 400W TDP
https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-vega-20...te-estimation/
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Old Jul 12, 2018, 08:34 PM   #119
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I wonder if they will add tensor cores too...
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Old Jul 12, 2018, 08:50 PM   #120
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So the 32GB version is definitely and exclusively a workstation card given it's price, while a 16GB version for gaming would be expensive but still possible if one is willing to work out the $$$, even if the sales would be low since not that many can still be built at 7nm since production capacity is still low until sometime in 2019.....
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