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Old Apr 19, 2002, 11:06 PM   #1
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kegking
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Default Some info on MacOS X on intel hardware

Well i was browsing thru a mac rumor site (old habbits die hard) and i came across this from Mac OS rumors.com on driver support for MacOS X on intel (scant info on amd):
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There has been a lot of discussion about the renewed possibility that Apple will deliver a complete version of OS X for Intel-compatible computers recently, in the wake of rumors suggesting that ATi and nVIDIA are working on versions of their OS X drivers that would work on Intel/AMD machines.
What does this mean? Besides a flamewar it means that the very stable (but not fast) MacOS X will be comming someday on PC hardware. Im not to knowlagble on the *nix or FreeBSD o/s but this would be a major plus for ATI users

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Old Apr 20, 2002, 02:01 AM   #2
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You can't trust those Mac rumor sites. Most of them are so full of crap. There's like this whole subculture of Mac Zealots that sit around all day making things up.
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Old Apr 20, 2002, 03:39 AM   #3
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I dunno, I'm betting osx would have a hard time suddenly having to support 10 times(and I'm being conservative)the amount of hardware that it does now, and just because the OS runs on Intel systems doesn't increase the dismal amount of software available for it.
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Old Apr 20, 2002, 03:43 AM   #4
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It wouldn't be that bad if Apple just released it cheap (because it's not that hard to port...it's BSD-based), and sold it as-is with no support. The internet community would pick up the tech support slack for those adventurous enough to try it, and the rest of people could just use Mac hardware. The danger for Apple would be if it ended up being faster on the x86 platform. They might have to cripple it intentionally to keep up with the insane clock speeds of Intel and AMD chips. Yeah, yeah, I know that Power PC is more efficient (I've had enough computer architecture classes to know more than most of you), but I would not be surprised of your latest P4 or XP chip ran circles around a G4 running the same OS.
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Old Apr 20, 2002, 08:49 AM   #5
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I've heard of Darwin for Wintel platforms, I don't remember what it is off the top of my head though.
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Old Apr 20, 2002, 09:25 AM   #6
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Darwin is the unix part of Mac OSX, it practically only runs on the PC of the person who ported it! IE BX mobo and something like that. If you install it and actually get it working all you have is a command line. I think though there is a port of XFree86 too. Not very impressive.
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Old Apr 22, 2002, 05:49 PM   #7
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Default It seems unlikely to me

I can't really see Apple switching to the x86 architecture in the near future. For all that Motorola have failed to develop the G4 chip quickly, it would be a major effort for Apple to switch the Aqua GUI to run on Intel or AMD - and persuade all its developers to make the same switch. Motorola seems likely to ramp up the G4 speeds more quickly now that it has passed the 1Ghz mark, and there are lots of rumours about how good the G5 is supposed to be (though it might be nice if Motorola could actually show it running).

I think that, if Apple ever were to make the switch, they would lock the hardware to ensure that you still needed to buy Apple hardware to run OS X. Otherwise they would become just an OS vendor trying to compete against Microsoft. So I don't see them having to provide driver support to rival Windows.

I don't know how it would go down with most Mac users. I switched to the Mac recently, and I'm not too bothered what chip OS X runs on. However, a lot of people may not like the idea of switching to Intel, given that they see Microsoft and Intel as the enemy - perhaps AMD would be more acceptable, particularly with its forthcoming Hammer architecture.

Just my opinions...
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Old Apr 22, 2002, 08:21 PM   #8
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Well I made an error when I said MacOS X on x86. I meant the underlay os/core/kernel, which is Darwin, which a variation on FreeBSD. But it’s a stable OS. It’s the GUI that’s horribly slow. I'm sorry for my errors and stupidity . But apple is in trouble we can see that…horribly slow response from Motorola with the G4 and G5 (and it didn’t help that they switch to an embedded philosophy). IBM was the only one who constantly supplied the G3’s and was able to ramp up the speed (on par with the g4’s…not good in apples eyes). But Motorola is being a Nazi with the chip manufacturing. Hopefully the G5 will scale better then the current versions. Cuz they can’t keep selling laser cut iPods forever.

Edit: the GUI rendering is don via the CPU not any graphic chips BTW.
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Old Apr 23, 2002, 07:12 AM   #9
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I think that if Apple is to ever be what it really wants, it has to do something on x86 machines. It would be simple to port it over and have a systems requirements stamped on the side of the box just like everything else. I would personally buy parts just for OSX. Heck, "we" buy new stuff everyday, and we probably have the parts needs just lying around...
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Old Apr 26, 2002, 12:52 PM   #10
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Default Darwin/OS X on x86 could fly, but....

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Originally posted by high_ping
I think that if Apple is to ever be what it really wants, it has to do something on x86 machines. It would be simple to port it over and have a systems requirements stamped on the side of the box just like everything else. I would personally buy parts just for OSX. Heck, "we" buy new stuff everyday, and we probably have the parts needs just lying around...
Part of the problem is that Apple is thinking too much like Sun.

Both companies think they must be *complete computer companies* (both software *and* hardware) to survive (note that in addition to the partial release of Darwin/x86, Sun has put Solaris 9/x86 in abeyance for *cost* reasons).

Apple is seriously worried that if it goes entirely x86 it would alienate everyone that bought Macs (they must be talking G4 PowerMacs, as OS X did a good job alienating the G3 crowd, and OS 8.6 won't run at all on '040 Macs).

In short, Apple is saying that they need *more* control of the Mac market than *Microsoft* is accused of having in the PC market. (NOTE #2: Apple also *completely killed* all Mac clone vendors, and did so on purpose.)

Apple's insistence on *complete control* could doom them earlier than Microsoft (or even Sun).
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Old Apr 26, 2002, 01:15 PM   #11
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Sun recently has gotten smarter, they're starting to slowly move toward linux.
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Old Apr 28, 2002, 03:48 PM   #12
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There is simply one answer to this arguement..... It's the history of Apple....

Under 'no' curcumstances will macintosh 'ever' release (or if they can help it) allow thier programs to be run outside of the PPC based RISC architecture.

They don't make thier money on software, they make all their money on hardware. Tell me who is ever going to buy thier overpriced 'slow' systems if they had the option of getting an x86 system that's a million times cheaper and a million times faster than what they would end up with at the cheap end of Apple's line. See apple is all about owning and dictating where it's line go and who can use them and how they can be used. (it makes them money)

Darwin... No there is not a release for x86 systems, and no the ported version (hybrid made) that a few kids and enthusiasts did for x86 systems was simply just to prove it could be done. (Mac is not happy about it nor will it ever go on the 'opensource' (hahhahaha) website apple runs. If you wanted what they ended up with.... Just go download FreeBSD for x86 since it was designed for intel systems before it was ever ported to PPC systems. (which apple now uses and neadless to say basically ripped off, if you think about how stupid darwin is you'll understand my comment there)

The Darwin project is simply yet another way macintosh can get more programs developed for thier systems at no overhead to apple - that's all it is and all it ever will be. Expecially since they had to move over to a unix backend since OS9-back were terribly unstaible OS's. (And I mean really unstaible) Not only that....... Apple gets to use more buzzwords like 'OpenSource'! needless to say it is far from what Opensource is... It is mearly a SDK (software development kit) same thing MS gives out for free.

I spend my days listening to apple trying to steal me and the rest of the UNIX community away with stupid statement.... (they didn't anticipate that we wouldn't fall for it because we're not as dumb as most of thier client base and simply using 'words' don't trick people that 'really' live under the GPL umbrella)
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