Go Back   Rage3D » Rage3D Discussion Area » Gaming and Computing Forums » General Hardware
Rage3D Subscribe Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General Hardware Talk about PCs/Macs, motherboards, CPUs, sound cards, RAM, hard drives, networking and everything else about computer hardware!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Apr 29, 2004, 11:42 AM   #1
Advertisement (Guests Only)

Login or Register to remove this ad
corny
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: England UK
Posts: 2,215
corny is still being judged by the masses


Default Gaming Mouse Recommendations

Hi all,

Looking for a new mosue to replace my m/s scrolly mouse; any suggestions? I play online, and a few of my friends have had probs with cordless/nadless mice - is this common? I'd probably want a 5 button one too lol - any suggestions ?

Cheers,

James
corny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2004, 11:49 AM   #2
corny
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: England UK
Posts: 2,215
corny is still being judged by the masses


Default

corny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2004, 12:20 PM   #3
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

I have two excellent mice, both 800 dpi. I purchased them both recently
and have been using them extensively for testing. Both are wired mice,
which is what I prefer.

The Kensington PilotMouse Optical Pro is a 5 button mouse and is listed
at the link below. It has an excellent feel, spot on performance and the
better and more stable driver of the two. This is my absolute favorite of
those I have used and purchased and I highly, highly recommend it.

http://www.kensington.com/html/4006.html

The Logitech MX510 is an 8 button mouse and is listed at the link below.
It is a bit smaller and the surface is a bit too smooth really, and the buttons
are not as raised, making clicking feel a bit strange on some of those extra
buttons. The software is a bit buggy, as many versions of Logitech Mouse
Drivers tend to be, and the acceleration options are not as effective, it seems,
as those in the other mouse listed above. It just "feels" different and less
gradual/natural. It is somewhat hard to explain. Buttons are not all easy to
access or click, depending on hand size. The larger side buttons on the mouse
above seem to be more effective for me.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...CONTENTID=8070

Both mice are pretty nice and at 800 dpi, they perform quite well indeed for
gaming. I think that regardless of which you may purchase, you will have some
very accurate and fast gaming.

That said, I do indeed prefer the Kensington model. I bought them both
and still have them both and find that the Kensington not only feels better
and has better 4th and 5th buttons, from a size and clicking convenience
standpoint, but from the rubber fins on the sides that help keep your fingers
perspiration-free and somewhat more comfortable than the Logitech model.

Under the harshest and fastest of conditions both of these mice perform very
well. They don't lose tracking, they feel incredibly accurate and gaming with
them is much better than the earlier generations of optical mice, which I also
own. I can move very swiftly in all the First Person Shooter games I have and
unlike the early Microsoft and Logitech mice, the optical engines in these two
keep up and never miss a beat. I can move the mouse very rapidly from one
side of the screen to the other in say Quake 3 Arena or UT2004 and the cursor
is always where you would expect it to be. 800 dpi optical engines must really
make a big difference in that regard. But it does seem that the Kensington
driver is less bloated and does not get in the way of the games that I'm playing.
The Logitech Driver seems to have some issues in that regard.

Well, that is about all I got to say on this right now. Hope that it helps!

Best wishes, whichever you decide to get.
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement (Guests Only)
Login or Register to remove this ad
Old Apr 29, 2004, 02:54 PM   #4
Shadowless
Deez Nuts
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States Long Island, NY
Posts: 26,213
Shadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badgesShadowless doesn't need no stinkin' badges


Default

logitech MX700...sooooo comfortable
__________________
Desktop - Corsair Carbide SPEC-02 Redshift | ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero | AMD Ryzen 7 1700X | Hyper 212 EVO | 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200 | 512GB Intel 660p | 2TB Seagate 7200.12 | 16x LG BD-Burner | MSI Armor OC GeForce GTX 1080 | Tt ToughPower Grand RGB 750w | Acer ET322QU | Windows 10 Pro
Shadowless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2004, 02:57 PM   #5
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowless
logitech MX700...sooooo comfortable
MX510 = MX700 but wired, and with optimized engine.

But if you like wireless, MX700 = cool
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2004, 03:26 PM   #6
Firestar_3x
The Grand Master!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,781
Firestar_3x is still being judged by the masses


Default

MX510, MX700 or MX900, all fantastic mice nothing microsoft has even comes close to these babys.
__________________
Rig 1: AMD 64 3500 - Phase Change Cooled / Abit AV8 3rd Eye - Watercooled Chipset / 2048Mb Corsair XMS 3500 Cas 2 / NEC 3500 DVD±RW / Enermax Noisetaker 600W / x800 XT - Watercooled / 2x 74GB WD Raptors In Raid 0 / 2x 200Gb SATA WD 8Mb Cache / Creative Audigy 2 ZS / Logitech Z-680's / Lian-Li PC-75 / Vapochill PE / Waterchill KT12-L20 / 2x Viewsonic VX2025VM X Series 20" LCD Monitor / Func 1030 / Logitech DiNovo.

Home Cinema: Panasonic TH-42PW6 42" Plasma TV (HDTV + Progressive Scan) / Wall Mount Bracket / Logitech Z680 Speakers / Toshiba SD340 DivX Multi-region DVD Player (Progressive Scan) / X-box 360 / Playstation 2 / Aver Media STB-3 / Sky Digital / Progressive Scan Interconnects / Optical Audio.


Bender / Futurama - How about you interface with my ass, by biting it!
[email protected] Member Rank
Firestar_3x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2004, 11:48 PM   #7
Shoey Peachew
 
Posts: n/a


Default

Tom's Hardware Guide did a recent review of a mouse that just came out. It tops the MX700 (used to be their favorite gaming mouse) in their review.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20040317/index.html

Tell me what you think of it.
  Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 01:59 AM   #8
Labula
Radeon R520
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 364
Labula is still being judged by the masses


Default

MX510 because you dont have to worry about your batteries dieing in the middle of a game...
Labula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 02:47 AM   #9
Ukitsu
Radeon R300
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 175
Ukitsu is still being judged by the masses


Default

I have an mx700 and I have NEVER had the batteries die on me in-game
Ukitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 03:07 AM   #10
neliz
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,270
neliz is still being judged by the masses


Default

MX700 (or MX900 if bluetooth is your thingy)

The price is quite affordable, it's reliable, precise etc.

Don't worry about the batteries, you get a set of 1800mAh batteries with the mouse and it will let you game for days.
If you just pop your mouse in the charger every three days or so (at least, that's what I do) you'll never see the "low battery power" pop-up (or a red light indicator on the mouse for that matter.)

What i did was keeping an extra logitech cordless mouse on my desktop as well, so in the case my mouse would ever die on me, I've got backup
__________________
OTI-056, OTI-087, S3 Trio V64, S3 TrioGX + Elsa Gloria-L, S3 VirgeDX + Elsa GLoria-L, Matrox Millenium + Monster3D, TNT2, Geforce256, Creative Geforce2MX, Radeon 9000Pro, Sapphire 9500Pro, Sapphire 9600XT, Club3D 9800Pro, Club3D 6600GT, ELSA Falcox X800XT-PE, XFX 7600GTXXX, Sapphire HD 2900XT, MSI HD 4850, MSI R5850 /OC, XFX HD 6870, MSI R6950 Twin Frozr II/OC, HD 7950.
neliz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 03:47 AM   #11
vasileiou
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Greece, Athens
Posts: 506
vasileiou is still being judged by the masses


Default

I have the Logitech MX900 Bluetooth and it's the BEST


It has a very strong signal and is very sensitive
and the Batteries can be recharged so you do not need to buy new batteries every 6 months

plus you can use it to communicate with other Bluetooth Devices if you have


It's a GREAT MOUSE!!!!
vasileiou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 05:40 AM   #12
Xander
Naval | Gamer
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: United States Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,512
Xander is still being judged by the masses


Default

I've tried:
* Logitech Elite cordless duo mouse.
* Logitech Trackman optical trackball
* Logitech Trackman cordless optical trackball
* Logitech MX510 (Gods, I HATED the button layout on this! Stupid, stupid, stupid layout!)
* Logitech MX310
* Logitech Wheel Mouse Optical
* Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer
* Microsoft Optical Mouse
* Microsoft PS/2 scroll mouse

And finally, after all these mice over all these years, found one I REALLY liked:
Razer Boomslang. I LOVE having all those buttons...layed out intelligently! And the feel of this guy is just unlike anything else on the market. As a word of warning, though...more than any other mouse, this NEEDS those teflon mouse feet and a quality mousepad. It's touchy - VERY touchy if configured so - and you don't want it sticking while you are moving it. The sensor on this is precise enough to catch even the most trivial 'stick', and that can kill you.

(Yeah, I know that's not a link to Razer's site. I linked to the actual mouse I'm using - BFG's licensed distribution of it. Best Buy stocks these on their online store, so you can get free shipping that way.)
__________________
You post too much, Outlander.
Xander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 07:47 AM   #13
Dave
Radeon Arctic Islands
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dave Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 21,471
Dave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialDave is on Chuck Norris' speed-dial


Subscriber
Default

stay away from the microsoft intellimouse explorer. if you install the software that comes with it to setup the mouse, when you play a game and you use the scroll wheel to change weapons you will jump through all your weapons rapidly. have to move the wheel very slowly. just changed my microsoft wireless desktop elite to the logitech cordless mx duo. much better!
Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 08:21 AM   #14
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Labula
MX510 because you dont have to worry about your batteries dieing in the middle of a game...
Huh - that is a good point I guess. I do prefer wired mice in almost all
cases, but am so "addicted" to this particular trackball of mine that I
put up with the annoyance of having to change batteries and the
"lag" that comes when the battery is starting to discharge, but before
it actually runs out of juice.

Why do I keep this wireless trackball then? Well, there is nothing else
quite like it:

http://themonkeyboyz.spymac.net/desktop/trackman.jpg

It is just an odd little bugger, but is incredibly productive and ergonomic,
so, I'm stuck with a "fatal attraction"...
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 09:51 AM   #15
corny
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: England UK
Posts: 2,215
corny is still being judged by the masses


Default

Cheers all, but the MX500 isn't 5 button; any good 5B ones?
corny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 11:16 AM   #16
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by corny
Cheers all, but the MX500 isn't 5 button; any good 5B ones?

The Kensington PilotMouse Optical Pro is a 5 button mouse and is listed
at the link below. It has an excellent feel, spot on performance and the
better and more stable driver of the two. This is my absolute favorite of
those I have used and purchased and I highly, highly recommend it.

http://www.kensington.com/html/4006.html
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 11:22 AM   #17
Mr_Skinny
Meh
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England England
Posts: 1,813
Mr_Skinny is still being judged by the masses


Default

Microsoft Intellimouse Optical - comfortable, nice to use and durable.
__________________
They mostly come at night...mostly....
Mr_Skinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 12:39 PM   #18
corny
Radeon Northern Islands
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: England UK
Posts: 2,215
corny is still being judged by the masses


Default

Apologies TMB, skipped your post; and it was the most informative; 'my bad'
corny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 12:55 PM   #19
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by corny
Apologies TMB, skipped your post; and it was the most informative; 'my bad'
No sweat man! It happens to all of us.

And when it comes to tech - there just ain't no BAD when it comes to upgrade fun!

It's all good when it comes to upgrades...
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2004, 10:42 PM   #20
MrSpock2002
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States Montour Falls, NY
Posts: 2,169
MrSpock2002 is still being judged by the masses


Default

I love my Mx700... My batteries last about 12 hours.
MrSpock2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2004, 08:10 AM   #21
Crager
Radeon R700
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 821
Crager is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by MrSpock2002
I love my Mx700... My batteries last about 12 hours.
I only get a about a day out of mine. I'm on my second one, just recently bought the wireless kb/mouse combo. Wireless combo rocks.
__________________
Win XP Pro SP2 (DX 9.0c)
ASUS K8N-E Deluxe
AMD 64 3200+ (754)
1GB PC3200 Ram
Xtasy X850XT PE (NGOHQ 6.5 cp)
SoundBlaster X-Fi
WD800JD - SATA 8 mb cache
Plextor DVD+R-R/RW
Crager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1, 2004, 08:30 AM   #22
{D0om}DEATH
Radeon R600
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 629
{D0om}DEATH is still being judged by the masses


Default

I use an MS intellimouse Explorer 3.0a. Dont like the shape and feel or logitechs mice. had this mouse almost a year now no problems out of it. very precise and doesnt go insane if i move it very fast (i cant move it fast enough for it to lose what im doing).
{D0om}DEATH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 06:56 AM   #23
MoRTiZ
Hibernating
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,224
MoRTiZ is still being judged by the masses


Default

I love my Logitech MX500 mouse...

Could've gone with the MX700 but since my last wireless Microsoft and A4Tech mouse which has a battery life of 3 days, I just couldn't be bothered taking the batteries out, plugging in the new batteries into the mouse and plugging the old batteries for recharge. This is too tedious and gets worse during intensive usage especially when I have an assignment due in (I'm doing multimedia so yeah everythings done on computer). Oh it gives me heartattack too when the mouse stops functioning in the middle of a fragfest, thinking of some absurd hardware failure!

So yeah, if you don't mind changing batteries now and then, I do recommend the MX700... Else just get the MX500 mouse, exactly the same functions/mouse... only difference is the cordless option.

Logitech's mouse do take a while to get used to but it's only a matter of days before everything works perfectly well and comfortable. I have no idea what people are complaining about with the Logitech's drivers as mine works perfectly well so highly recommended for gaming and everything else. The awards that this mouse has is sufficient enough to explain its recommendations.
__________________
AMD XP 2600+ | Powercolor 9800Pro 128mb (400/350)
Epox 8RDA3+ Nforce2 Ultra 400 | 1 Gig DDR 400 Ram [Dual Channel]
WinXP SP2 | Seagate Barracuda 160g + 80g Hdd
Liteon 16x Dvdrom/52x CDR | Pioneer 107D 8x DVDR
Logitech Z-640 5.1 Speakers | Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
Logitech MX500 Mouse | Logitech Keyboard Elite
MoRTiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 08:14 AM   #24
Viral
Radeon R700
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 882
Viral is still being judged by the masses


Default

Can't say i like the shape or feel of logitech mice either..

I have an MS Wireless intellimouse explorer 2.0.. it has a sideways scroll which is useful for browsing, but it doesn't work in PS7.0 where i always want to use it

I've had the same batteries for 3 months and they are still reported as "Good" (top level).. so i'm assuming they last 6 months+.

The shape is nice, and i cant spot any lag personally.. The only thing i dont like is the middle mouse click. It's harder to click than any scroll mouse i;ve had before.. You don't need it as much for browsing etc (i use it to change the active window, which i hardly use) but in games it does matter ...
__________________
Q9550 @ 3.6GHz w/ Thermalright True Black 120 | 4GB Team Xtreme Dark 800MHz CL4 | Gigabyte EP45-DS4P
HIS Radeon 4870x2 | 128GB (2x64GB) OCZ Core SSD's Raid0 | 1TB WD Green Power | BenQ V2400W 24" LCD
Corsair HX-1000w | LG GGW-H20L 6x DL Blu-Ray Burner/HD-DVD Reader | Coolermaster Cosmos S

Acer TravelMate 4002WNLCi: Pentium M 725 @ 1.6GHz | Mobility Radeon 9700/64MB | 2GB DDR400 | 15.4" WXGA
Viral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 09:45 AM   #25
Phoenix_Cat
Formatting Extremist
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North West, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,863
Phoenix_Cat is still being judged by the masses


Default

Try logitech's latest range of cordless/optical. Very nice to the hand, also to the eye. and are well constructed
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Install
You must test drive before you buy!!! You dont want to end up with a lemon.
Phoenix_Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 11:50 AM   #26
Animotion
O_o
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England Miho Maeshima's Breasts
Posts: 1,259
Animotion is still being judged by the masses


Default

Logitech MX700
__________________

PS3 - Mok_ojin - 360 - Mokojin

" You guys are just jelous - but I guess I can let you 3 going wild in a menage ŕ trois, and record it for the secret R3D pr0n server" - Pr()ZaC

"Good night child.. It's past your bed time" - Harmon smith Killer7

"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine." - Bruce Lee
Animotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 12:42 PM   #27
TheMonkeyBoyz
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 13,989
TheMonkeyBoyz is still being judged by the masses


Default

Has nobody else ever seen/tried the Kensington PilotMouse Optical Pro???

It even comes bundled with Splinter Cell if you buy it in the Gravis bundle.

It really is quite good - at least as good as my MX510 it seems, and the extra 2
buttons are larger and easier to use than on the MX510 as well. PLUS the Driver
seems more stable and less resource hungry.

http://www.kensington.com/html/4006.html

Am I alone in my admiration of this Kensington product?

Woe is me...
TheMonkeyBoyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 2004, 03:16 PM   #28
Tyrion
Cybernetic Journalist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: United States Pimping it up in Williamette Mall
Posts: 2,265
Tyrion is still being judged by the masses


Default

I tried the wireless version of the optical pro- it absolutely sucked. Way too heavy, and it jumped alot. It felt comfortable, but the MX500 is better in almost every way.
__________________
Heh... You have imagination... That's what drives you in your quest to run...Your quest to hide. As prey, you and your kind are much more stubborn than the zombies.
Tyrion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2004, 05:04 AM   #29
Firestar_3x
The Grand Master!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,781
Firestar_3x is still being judged by the masses


Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
I tried the wireless version of the optical pro- it absolutely sucked. Way too heavy, and it jumped alot. It felt comfortable, but the MX500 is better in almost every way.
Umm..... Each to his own!
__________________
Rig 1: AMD 64 3500 - Phase Change Cooled / Abit AV8 3rd Eye - Watercooled Chipset / 2048Mb Corsair XMS 3500 Cas 2 / NEC 3500 DVD±RW / Enermax Noisetaker 600W / x800 XT - Watercooled / 2x 74GB WD Raptors In Raid 0 / 2x 200Gb SATA WD 8Mb Cache / Creative Audigy 2 ZS / Logitech Z-680's / Lian-Li PC-75 / Vapochill PE / Waterchill KT12-L20 / 2x Viewsonic VX2025VM X Series 20" LCD Monitor / Func 1030 / Logitech DiNovo.

Home Cinema: Panasonic TH-42PW6 42" Plasma TV (HDTV + Progressive Scan) / Wall Mount Bracket / Logitech Z680 Speakers / Toshiba SD340 DivX Multi-region DVD Player (Progressive Scan) / X-box 360 / Playstation 2 / Aver Media STB-3 / Sky Digital / Progressive Scan Interconnects / Optical Audio.


Bender / Futurama - How about you interface with my ass, by biting it!
[email protected] Member Rank
Firestar_3x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2004, 08:32 AM   #30
squid
Cute
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Australia 127.0.0.1
Posts: 14,429
squid knows why the caged bird singssquid knows why the caged bird singssquid knows why the caged bird singssquid knows why the caged bird singssquid knows why the caged bird sings


Default

i've got an older logitech wireless mouse, but i have to say my previous wired intellimouse opitical was a bit more accurate, especially noticable in fps's, but nothing major. the benefits of wireless are definitely worth it; i can lie back on my bed and type and look up porn and stuff in comfort
squid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gaming Laptop Recommendations? Dark_Swordmaster General Hardware 11 Sep 6, 2010 12:28 AM
Wireless Keyboard/Mouse Recommendations Seyiji General Hardware 9 Mar 1, 2010 03:45 PM
Gaming Headphone Recommendations? Music Must be Good too Though DrCR General Hardware 23 Jul 23, 2006 07:42 PM
Need mouse (!) recommendations. Armpit General Hardware 11 May 20, 2004 06:11 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com
Links monetized by VigLink