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Old May 9, 2002, 09:30 AM   #1
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Exclamation EVERYONE READ: warez related

Ok, in the past two days i've closed two threads related to warez. No CD stuff is goin around and so on. We've all done it at some point, so no biggie to me personally, but it is a TOS violation which makes it a problem. I've closed two threads and i haven't sent out any warnings, please think posts through before posting warez related topics/posts/etc because from this point on (at least for the near future), if i catch you, i'll warn you, and you can only have so many warnings. Thanks guys, i hope you understand why we need to keep illegal activity off the forums.
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Old May 9, 2002, 11:32 AM   #2
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cant you talk about warez without posting warez sites or files?

and the nocd thread that you closed its not warez nocd files are not illegal beacuse many people use it when the play their game on a home network they dont want to buy 5 games so they could play on the home network.
Look it up and you'll see that its not illegal and its definantly not warez.

Last edited by badboy : May 9, 2002 at 11:35 AM.
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Old May 9, 2002, 12:27 PM   #3
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Actually, I agree with badboy. I think this issue is still up in the air. We'll let you know when a final, admin decision is made.
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Old May 9, 2002, 01:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by badboy
cant you talk about warez without posting warez sites or files?

Generally. No.

However No-CD cracks in particular are a little bit of a grey area. Discussion on usage of it should be avoided, however, in particular relating to Morrowind, it is something that can help performance dramatically on some peoples systems... so I think discussion on some level should be allowed for it.
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Old May 9, 2002, 01:29 PM   #5
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First off... Hi, I'm new here.

Second... I believe that, technically, a no-cd hack is also illegal. Under the DMCA a user can not circumvent any digital protection as implemented by the publisher. Will an end user get hauled to court? Doubtful. But one should error on the side of caution in such cases.

A no warez/cd-crack policy is propably the safe road to follow.
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Old May 9, 2002, 03:29 PM   #6
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I think nocd are just there to help people who want to run games on multiple home computers with their friends.
Its a shame if you couldnt help somebody to get his nocd crack working so he could set up a home network and play a multiplayer game with his friends
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Old May 9, 2002, 03:46 PM   #7
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Exclamation

no-cd cracks are not illigal in and of them selves. HOWEVER when you use that crack to install multiple copys of something that nomraly requirs a CD, thats illigal. It's just like your not allowed to install one copy of windows on 10 computers. You have to buy a site lisence for each computer. So when you want to play a game on your LAN, the law says your supposed to buy 5 copys (or whatever), one for each computer.
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Old May 9, 2002, 05:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sooung
no-cd cracks are not illigal in and of them selves. HOWEVER when you use that crack to install multiple copys of something that nomraly requirs a CD, thats illigal. It's just like your not allowed to install one copy of windows on 10 computers. You have to buy a site lisence for each computer. So when you want to play a game on your LAN, the law says your supposed to buy 5 copys (or whatever), one for each computer.
Strange very strange then there is not the same laws here in sweden beacuse big internetcafes all use nocd cracks for all their computers and games so you dont need the cd...
Every internetcafe here uses it
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Old May 9, 2002, 06:28 PM   #9
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some games such as Skynet used to allow you to run multiple copies off of 1 CD

Descent was the same way....
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Old May 9, 2002, 06:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thera
I believe that, technically, a no-cd hack is also illegal. Under the DMCA a user can not circumvent any digital protection as implemented by the publisher.
That's not entirely true. This is what the DMCA says specifically:
Quote:
No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that —
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. (The Copyright Act, Title 17 U.S.C. Section 1201(a)(2))
Mainly, point (B) is the hanging point here, as there are clearly significant purposes for the cracks besides stealing. Also, (C) would apply here, since the discussion is not about stealing.

And besides, the DMCA is a load of crap. It's clearly unconstitutional, and most of it doesn't stand up in court. Oh, and don't even get me started on the CBDTPA.
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Old May 9, 2002, 08:06 PM   #11
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If you guys dont mind I would like to clear up just the Morrowind no cd check thing.

The no cd check in morrowind DOES not allow you to run without shadows. It does however turn off the cd check that happens when you load every once in awhile. If you have a slow cd-rom spin up then it takes 6 seconds or 10 seconds to load as it takes 4 seconds for it to spin up and then 6 to load.

This and links to the cd-"no check" have been posted on the morrowind message boards, which has moderators, and on websites with people who are working with bethsoft.

Now I wont post any links to these forums as this would violate the rules but you can check out at least 3 differents threads in 3 different sections of the board AND, on at least 3 major websites.

I believe that if Bethsoft wanted these "patches" gone they would have yanked them from the sites, and gotten rid of them in thier own boards.

So if you dont believe me head over to www.morrowind.com and check it out. Or send and email to bethsoft asking about it. But please lets not ruin the game for people who it would otherwise be running fine. Its to great of a game to let that happen.

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Old May 9, 2002, 08:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by JasonQG
That's not entirely true. This is what the DMCA says specifically:Mainly, point (B) is the hanging point here, as there are clearly significant purposes for the cracks besides stealing. Also, (C) would apply here, since the discussion is not about stealing.

And besides, the DMCA is a load of crap. It's clearly unconstitutional, and most of it doesn't stand up in court. Oh, and don't even get me started on the CBDTPA.
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

It doesn't say anything about stealing, it says its illegal if there isn't a signficant use other than disabling the copy protection, which is exactly what everyone is using it for. Yes, disabling the copy protection may increase performance, but its still disabling the copy protection none the less.

Out of curiousity, what ammendment do you suppose it violates to make it unconstitutional?

Quote:
Originally posted by badboy
and the nocd thread that you closed its not warez nocd files are not illegal beacuse many people use it when the play their game on a home network they dont want to buy 5 games so they could play on the home network.
[/i]
When you purchase a game, you really only purchase a liscense to play the game, and that liscense almost allways prohibits having the same copy of a game installed on more than one PC at a time. Of course, just because something is written in an EULA doesn't make it legal, but still. I'm not sure how the Fair Use Act pertains to this...
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Old May 9, 2002, 08:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by SanGreal
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

It doesn't say anything about stealing, it says its illegal if there isn't a signficant use other than disabling the copy protection, which is exactly what everyone is using it for. Yes, disabling the copy protection may increase performance, but its still disabling the copy protection none the less.
The point is whether it's disabling it for illegal purposes or not. Do some reasearch on the DeCSS cases. The MPAA said that it was written for the purpose of copying DVDs, but the truth is that it was written as a first step towards making a DVD player for Linux.

Quote:
Originally posted by SanGreal
Out of curiousity, what ammendment do you suppose it violates to make it unconstitutional?
Free speech. Code is a form of expression, and the courts agree with this. I wrote a paper on this last quarter, if you're really curious about this stuff.
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Old May 9, 2002, 09:32 PM   #14
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No CD check things in itself isnt illegal because they were not made to be nothing more than a program performance enhancer. but because of what it is, people will ALWAYS use it illegally.
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Old May 9, 2002, 11:26 PM   #15
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My god people, haven't we beat this issue deep enough into the ground? Time for new material......
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Old May 10, 2002, 02:32 AM   #16
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No, not beat to death enough. Reason to use a nocd check? I spend thousands of dollars to have the fastest computer I can afford. I tweak windows so it loads fast and programs load fast. I tweak it some more to make programs run fast. Then I try to play a quick game of something......Cd not inserted. Darn, where is the cd? Let me look through my stuff...... Okay. Found it. Okay now I have to find the case for the cd that's already in the drive................Okay put that one away so it doesn't get scratched. Put the new cd in. Start over. Start game......wait...scanning cd.....wait.....scanning cd......Ok. I know 10 or 20 seconds isn't long in the scheme of things. But this is the modern age. I want it and I want it now. I don't spend my money on the latest and greatest hardware so I can have a superfast rig only to have to wait around for a frigging game to check for a cd. Multiplayer games. Go into gamespy(ugh! hate gamespy) Wait around for enough people to join a room. Host launches. Wait for cd check process..........3 or 4 people failed to connect because they were still waiting for the cd to be validated. Some games do this some don't. Some are worse at it than others. I use nocd cracks for games I buy and install on only one computer because it is more convenient for me. No more digging through my games to find the cd, taking out the cd I already have in and then digging around to find its case. No more waiting on the cd check for the game to load. Illegal?? I don't care. Arrest me if its wrong. I bought the game. I'm the only one using it. I just want it to be the most convenient for me. We are the same people who complain about long load times in games and alter our registry to enable faster texture compression. Or leave compression off to make games load faster. Yet we shouldn't alter the cd check to make the game faster? NoCd cracks aren't just for pirates and warez monkeys. They don't even need nocd cracks when they can just use software to make exact copies anyway. Uh oh! What's that? I think it's the thought police. They're at my door. Oh no.
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Old May 10, 2002, 01:55 PM   #17
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without the use of a no-cd crack, I was unable to play my retail copy of Max Payne, even after their supposed patch to fix the problems some drives had with reading through the protection. I wouldnt have been able to enjoy my $50 purchase if i hadnt used a crack.. so there is something to be said for that.
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Old May 10, 2002, 04:23 PM   #18
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No-CD Hacks (Noticed I said "Hacks") I think are perfectly illegal. It's the only way to get some games to work after you purchase them. Look at Max Payne, that thing had to have some of the absolute worse copy protection and would only run on certain systems without having the No-CD EXE Installed. Sometimes dumping out the copy protection is the only way to go for games in regards to performance and getting the game to play. Plus when I have a dozen different games installed on my system it's a pain in the butt to have to swap cd's for every single game I play.
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Old May 11, 2002, 03:09 PM   #19
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Personally I think they are just convenient. IF you have a bunch of games spending 5min to find the CD is a pain in the ass

As for things like EULA's there dumb,do not stand up in court and meaning less. Things like EULA's are often contradictory to them self's and are vague as to what they mean equaling worthless(There was a court case were Adobe said you could not re-sell a copy of Adobe because you don't "Own" it you have a license to use it. Needless to say they lost )
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Old May 11, 2002, 03:17 PM   #20
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Sorry for not reading all posts I just had to say this:
Posting about warez (ie I have Spiderman The Movie it's a great game bla bla bla) must be allowed huh?
But posting: Hey I found spiderman the movie at ftp://here:[email protected]:21 is not allowed?

As long as the forums doesn't turn into a place of trading warez and links etc. then no one is doing anything wrong.

Especially not the NOCD cracks, themselves are not illegal so the only reason not to allow it would be a moral decision. And moral sucks, we'd be better off if we used common sense instead of predefined rules.

*ventures off into Philisophy 101*
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Old May 11, 2002, 07:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Uriel
Sorry for not reading all posts I just had to say this:
Posting about warez (ie I have Spiderman The Movie it's a great game bla bla bla) must be allowed huh?
But posting: Hey I found spiderman the movie at ftp://here:[email protected]:21 is not allowed?

As long as the forums doesn't turn into a place of trading warez and links etc. then no one is doing anything wrong.

Especially not the NOCD cracks, themselves are not illegal so the only reason not to allow it would be a moral decision. And moral sucks, we'd be better off if we used common sense instead of predefined rules.

*ventures off into Philisophy 101*
thats exactly what I think!
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