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Old Jul 12, 2018, 11:17 PM   #121
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So the 32GB version is definitely and exclusively a workstation card given it's price, while a 16GB version for gaming would be expensive but still possible if one is willing to work out the $$$, even if the sales would be low since not that many can still be built at 7nm since production capacity is still low until sometime in 2019.....
I think they mean a Titan V price point for any 16GB Vega 20 version for gaming

looks like Vega is still a flop for gamers
Navi better be a homerun for gamers or they might as well throw in the towel on gaming and just put out workstation cards and mining cards only

and we got a year to wait for Navi

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Old Jul 13, 2018, 01:47 AM   #122
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Yeah but up to 96 CU? 6144 shaders. That thing would be a shading monster.
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 02:33 AM   #123
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Yeah but up to 96 CU? 6144 shaders. That thing would be a shading monster.
if a video card is over 1100 bucks I don't care if it licks my balls
i'm not buying it AMD or NV .

let alone 3k like a Titan V, i'll but a xbox one x first


I might pay 1500 (maybe) for one that can do 8k 144hz in most all games
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 10:47 AM   #124
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I think they mean a Titan V price point for any 16GB Vega 20 version for gaming

looks like Vega is still a flop for gamers
Navi better be a homerun for gamers or they might as well throw in the towel on gaming and just put out workstation cards and mining cards only

and we got a year to wait for Navi


Well keep in mind that if said ( theoretical ) card is released, a 70% + performance increase actually puts it slightly faster than the Volta based Titan V, so calling that a flop is being pretty harsh given the potential performance involved...… Seems that Vega 7nm clocked at 1 Ghz even is just as fast as Vega 14nm clocked at 1.75 Ghz, so to do that isn't just a die shrink and call it day but also having added more hardware.



Having said that, AMD being a business will sell it at a premium and not the usual 700~800$ that a high end card goes for, at least until there's a lot more 7nm fabrication capacity available because it's just starting out now for the most part...… I guess what i'm saying, is that we're so used to both Intel and Invidia charging outrageous prices for some of their products, that now having AMD starting to get back on it's feet between the thread ripper up to 32 cores, and being the first to have working 7nm GPU's that can take the top spot, that seeing them also charge a premium for them is something we're not used to, but such is business....
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 12:27 PM   #125
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for 1500+ it better be 170% + performance increase over a 1080 ti

been since 2013 and the 290x since we got a good new AMD gaming card

the 390x was a refresh
fury x was only fair
vega 64 a flop for all but mining

and now vega 20 has no real gaming card and some places say navi is a midrange card like a 1080 non ti for 325 bucks
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 01:59 PM   #126
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for 1500+ it better be 170% + performance increase over a 1080 ti

been since 2013 and the 290x since we got a good new AMD gaming card

the 390x was a refresh
fury x was only fair
vega 64 a flop for all but mining

and now vega 20 has no real gaming card and some places say navi is a midrange card like a 1080 non ti for 325 bucks
I paid $235 NIB for my 290X in 2016. Not buying a new card until I can get 2x its FPS for $500 or less.
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 03:01 PM   #127
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I paid $235 NIB for my 290X in 2016. Not buying a new card until I can get 2x its FPS for $500 or less.

I paid 589 each for two ASUS Radeon R9 290X-DC2OC's on 5/30/14
and about the same for two fury x's

skipped Vega but I'm 59 and I'm not waiting till I'm 70 for a new card
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 03:20 PM   #128
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I paid 589 each for two ASUS Radeon R9 290X-DC2OC's on 5/30/14
and about the same for two fury x's

skipped Vega but I'm 59 and I'm not waiting till I'm 70 for a new card
2x GPU performance improvement in 5 years is not unreasonable. But since AMD seems to be content sitting in the corner eating paste we are stuck with the $700 1080 Ti and $1200 Titan Xp.
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 05:02 PM   #129
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2x GPU performance improvement in 5 years is not unreasonable. But since AMD seems to be content sitting in the corner eating paste we are stuck with the $700 1080 Ti and $1200 Titan Xp.



soon we will be stuck with NVidia doing Intel like upgrades of 10% on a new card for 750 a pop
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 06:46 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
if a video card is over 1100 bucks I don't care if it licks my balls
i'm not buying it AMD or NV .

let alone 3k like a Titan V, i'll but a xbox one x first


I might pay 1500 (maybe) for one that can do 8k 144hz in most all games
Go on Bill buy an XboneX I did and you won't regret it. Only played BF1 but it looks amazing on my 49' HDR TV compared to my 27' Freesync monitor. Still struggling with the game pad controls but that will come.

All rumours point to Navi being a mid-range upgrade and 'next gen' being the high end card which isn't slated to arrive until some time in 2020. AMD aren't in the enthusiasts market ATM and won't be for a couple of years. We just have to accept it and move on I'm afraid.

BTW Vega 64 is an awesome 1440p card so I'd argue it is not a flop for gamers at all but it's not for 4K gaming with all the eye candy which TBF the 1080ti is not much better.
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Old Jul 13, 2018, 08:44 PM   #131
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Go on Bill buy an XboneX I did and you won't regret it. Only played BF1 but it looks amazing on my 49' HDR TV compared to my 27' Freesync monitor. Still struggling with the game pad controls but that will come.

All rumours point to Navi being a mid-range upgrade and 'next gen' being the high end card which isn't slated to arrive until some time in 2020. AMD aren't in the enthusiasts market ATM and won't be for a couple of years. We just have to accept it and move on I'm afraid.

BTW Vega 64 is an awesome 1440p card so I'd argue it is not a flop for gamers at all but it's not for 4K gaming with all the eye candy which TBF the 1080ti is not much better.
can't stand the controllers

as for vega 64 it is unplayable at 4k .
and my 1080 ti strix is in most all games
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 01:52 AM   #132
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can't stand the controllers

as for vega 64 it is unplayable at 4k .
and my 1080 ti strix is in most all games
Have two Vega FE's, no issue at 4K and FC5 . One of the better games with CFX. 1080 Ti I've found limited at 4K and SLI seems more miss then hit compared to CFX. 1440p Vega's kick ass, I don't consider Vega's as a total flop, they do game well, mine even better. Just that Nvidia should have something much better in the near future.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 02:08 AM   #133
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Have two Vega FE's, no issue at 4K and FC5 . One of the better games with CFX. 1080 Ti I've found limited at 4K and SLI seems more miss then hit compared to CFX. 1440p Vega's kick ass, I don't consider Vega's as a total flop, they do game well, mine even better. Just that Nvidia should have something much better in the near future.
only talking single card

gave up on sli and cfx after a lot of years too few new games working with it now


if FC5 works great with cfx is fine but I don't play it
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 05:11 AM   #134
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only talking single card

gave up on sli and cfx after a lot of years too few new games working with it now


if FC5 works great with cfx is fine but I don't play it
Bill, when DX12/Vulkan makes it into most games and the devs drop DX11 like they should have done 2-3 years ago for AAA titles.. DX12 will enable pretty seamless multi-GPU abilities.

Which btw.. Does Nvidia still disable the ability to use a secondary Nvidia GPU in the system for PhysX/Hairworks stuff when an AMD GPU is present anywhere in the system?
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 08:37 AM   #135
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Bob vodka has explained many times that the whole “DX12 will be easy mGPU” is false.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 08:45 AM   #136
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Bill, when DX12/Vulkan makes it into most games and the devs drop DX11 like they should have done 2-3 years ago for AAA titles.. DX12 will enable pretty seamless multi-GPU abilities.

Which btw.. Does Nvidia still disable the ability to use a secondary Nvidia GPU in the system for PhysX/Hairworks stuff when an AMD GPU is present anywhere in the system?
To support MGPU in Vulkan and Dx12 the developers NEED to implement that themselfs, is not a switch that you toggle and you are in MGPU heaven.

Afaik Nvidia still doesn't support GPU PhysX, if you use a AMD GPU for main render GPU. I would be very surprised if that has ever changed, that decision was not because of true technical difficulties, it was just Nvidia not supporting being relegated to PhysX acceleration and that has never changed.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 10:26 AM   #137
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Bob vodka has explained many times that the whole “DX12 will be easy mGPU” is false.

Still, at least the main drawback of Multi GPU goes away with DX12 and vulkan…..The need for specialized drivers having a profile for a specific game like it was the case for DX11 meaning having to wait weeks to get those from the GPU vendors, so now we can blame the developers and only the developers for not having it implemented in their games.....GPU drivers are off the hook and the API supports it.



GPU vendors may no longer be interested in encouraging developers to use multi GPU, primarily to encourage new GPU sales since gamers are using a single card, so as games become more demanding the odds are greater that a single card will run out of poke much sooner than a dual GPU one would, and in my case in particular it's been 3 to 3 1/2 year cycles using 2 cards and never having to back off settings in games released thru that period, while maintaining the max Fps that the display handles......It's also enough time for cards to become twice as fast, so when the upgrade does happen the performance increase doesn't need a Fps counter to notice it.....
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 10:32 AM   #138
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I’d argue the specialized drivers and NV/AMD led support was the reason why mGPU worked; because there was incentive for those companies to push mGPU, it made them money. Developers don’t give a damn because they don’t make money off it.

We were better off during DX9-11 days. MGPU is dead now and will remain that way until there is incentive for developers to push it.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 10:41 AM   #139
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I’d argue the specialized drivers and NV/AMD led support was the reason why mGPU worked; because there was incentive for those companies to push mGPU, it made them money. Developers don’t give a damn because they don’t make money off it.

We were better off during DX9-11 days. MGPU is dead now and will remain that way until there is incentive for developers to push it.
this

I have not many Developers rush to support MGPU in Vulkan and Dx12 if there has been any at all


SLI/CFX needed AMD and NV pushing it with drivers monthly for it to work as Developers could care less to put in the work for the low numbers of MGPU users
you want them to do all this extra work for SLI and CFX when most of them don't even fix their ****ing games to work right or do one or two patches and abandon it


and I was running both SLI and CFX with top cards from each but it got to be nuts after NV all but dropped it

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Old Jul 14, 2018, 10:45 AM   #140
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There’s a reason SLI did so well for so long. NV was pumping huge amounts of cash and developer/coding assistance to make sure it was scaling well.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 04:35 PM   #141
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Personally, I think it was more the price factor especially with the demand in mining that made the cards way more expensive, and when one's gaming setup has a CPU that cost 500$ but a pair of GPU's that will cost them between 2000 and 3000$ for both, they go **** that, I'll go with a single card which is more than enough.


GPU makers don't mind since it means that single GPU card setup will run out of steam that much sooner, and make that single high end GPU user change for an even higher performing card even faster that may cost even more, so it's all good.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 06:27 PM   #142
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Personally, I think it was more the price factor especially with the demand in mining that made the cards way more expensive, and when one's gaming setup has a CPU that cost 500$ but a pair of GPU's that will cost them between 2000 and 3000$ for both, they go **** that, I'll go with a single card which is more than enough.


GPU makers don't mind since it means that single GPU card setup will run out of steam that much sooner, and make that single high end GPU user change for an even higher performing card even faster that may cost even more, so it's all good.
first pard yes ok cost was part of why I did not buy two 1080 ti strix's and waterblocks and that was at msrp of 779
after the miners went NV cards also it was no way I would pay 1200+ for a second card

second part no most people I know that do or did sli/cfx would upgrade as soon as new carts hit every time
I always did

and there haven't been any new cards to upgrade to for 16 months and counting

other than the Titan V
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 07:39 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
first pard yes ok cost was part of why I did not buy two 1080 ti strix's and waterblocks and that was at msrp of 779
after the miners went NV cards also it was no way I would pay 1200+ for a second card

second part no most people I know that do or did sli/cfx would upgrade as soon as new carts hit every time
I always did

and there haven't been any new cards to upgrade to for 16 months and counting

other than the Titan V


The second part is subjective as for when one decides to upgrade......Many years ago when I was a lot more impressionable and was always trying to go for the highest benchmark results possible, and did upgrades where the gain was sometimes as small as 20~30%, I also got that bitter taste of having blown money on hardware that did indeed make for those records to happen, but when compared to what I was running previously the gain was nothing special.....Another 10 frames here or 15 frames there type deal......Got sick of that eventually.


These days , it's double or nothing so basically going from a 30 Fps situation to a 60 Fps at the minimum, so there's no need to even run benchmark programs, Fps counters, stop watches or anything else that exists out there, the difference is immediately noticeable as soon as you fire up a game and put it at the most demanding settings possible where your current setup couldn't do more than 30 Fps to begin with.



It's why this rumor with there may be a gaming version of Vega at 7 nm coming out early next year, and it seems it is 75% faster because it clocked at 1 Ghz matches the 14 nm version at 1.75 Ghz is a good increase, but it is still a little short of twice as fast in my book......It takes quite a lot to impress me these days, but I guess that's because i've seen so much hardware in nearly 3 decades.



I also hope Nvidia doesn't just release a tweaked Pascal at 12nm, clock it higher and pack it with GDDR6 making the usual 30~40% faster and call it a day while charging a fortune for it.
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 07:42 PM   #144
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Bob vodka has explained many times that the whole “DX12 will be easy mGPU” is false.
Never said it would be easy. Just said it would be seamless. To clarify though, I mean that in the way of.. if the game supports it, it should just work for the user. No profiles etc..

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Originally Posted by Argoon1981 View Post
To support MGPU in Vulkan and Dx12 the developers NEED to implement that themselfs, is not a switch that you toggle and you are in MGPU heaven.

Afaik Nvidia still doesn't support GPU PhysX, if you use a AMD GPU for main render GPU. I would be very surprised if that has ever changed, that decision was not because of true technical difficulties, it was just Nvidia not supporting being relegated to PhysX acceleration and that has never changed.
1st Part- Yes, I understand that. See the above response to Nunz. :-)

2nd Part- Figured it might be. Just hadn't seen anything on it since the original articles swept the web. lol
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Old Jul 14, 2018, 09:10 PM   #145
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That said, if the 7nm Vega is released and has that 75% performance increase from one chip, it's basically the performance of both my 14nm Vega's in crossfire, so if i add a second of them still in crossfire, we're talking more than enough speed to keep a 4K monitor that refreshes at 120Hz very busy as the cards would be kicking out 120+ Fps at that 4k resolution which is insane, if it existed of course so it isn't slow that much is sure.




Ball is on AMD's court and I think they should if Navi is only a 2020 product....For once AMD would have the lead over Nvidia in that they'd release a high end gaming card using the latest 7nm fabrication process, while Nvidia may use the 12nm process already leveraged for the titan V.
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Old Jul 16, 2018, 08:49 PM   #146
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In any case, we're on the last rounds of current lithography technology, so all this discussion about who's faster or uses less power or comes out sooner and cheaper is about to become a moot point within the next 5 years..... The next big step that cuts transistor size in half over the 7 mn process requires manufacturing equipment that isn't even on the drawing board right now, never mind the physics challenges of current leakage ( quantum tunnelling), as certain parts of transistors are nothing but a few atoms wide.



Some will say " there's new materials on the horizon ", we'll I've been hearing that for years now and nothing has materialized in high volume production yet so they're still laboratory experiments for the most part.
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