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Old Apr 9, 2006, 03:40 AM   #31
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Renocide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
I was replying to the your reference of the first big launch in which you specified the big launch budget of $30 million in 1998.
I used that particular "relaunch" because of the dollar amount that was listed while you were telling me that they didn't try to push it until 2001. I never said it was the first, only, or last.

Quote:
If that is all that is needed to make a format, then we need to re-evaluate many things as formats. We are arguing semantics here: I am saying it is not a format in the way that you want to compare things, most notably to Blu-Ray. Why? Based on its target audience, development time (1 year. Let that sink into your head), and sloppy push in N.America. For a format, multiple companies need to have invested in it and need to be pushing it with multiple partners (ie. CD and DVD). MD is definitely not a format in this sense.
What you don't know about the MiniDisc should have it's own Wikipedia entry:

Quote:
The company avoided the mistake that it had made in the 1970s with the Betamax video recording system, and this time licensed the MD technology to other manufacturers, with JVC, Sharp, Pioneer, Panasonic and others all producing their own MD systems.

Quote:
The MD did not fail in that it managed to dethrone the one competitor it had : the DCC. Both were in the race to replace cassette tapes as a portable audio medium. It also didn't fail because it served its purpose of capturing the Asian market.

It was announced. I feel that if it was "launched" in typical Sony style, there would be no way that by 1998, almost 75% of adults in America did not know of the existence of the format (article you found). Let this sink in too.
Sony sucked at marketing it. Sure. Ofourse relaunching it 4 times using magazine ads, television, and give-a-ways should have done something...

Quote:
As previoiusly stated, I feel that the true "launch" ($30 million dollar budget) in America was in 1998 and by then CD-RW / MP3s were on the market and MD was old technology.
Well thats the only dollar amount for a launch we have. Who's to say that the first one(1992) didn't have a larger budget. We don't know that. Ofcourse here we're talking about how you feel so...


Quote:
I have presented my arguements with sufficient support and whether you accept the first part of this paragraph is your choice to make. But saying that Sony don't make things geared to any particular market because they are a worldwide brand definitely paints you as a very ignorant person. If you truly think that is true, then you really need to look into the Asian market or perhaps anywhere outside of America. It would also be no wonder that you don't understand what I have said.

As a last resort, another example : is the Xbox a failed format because they failed to penetrate Asia? Imagine me using most of the points I used here with you with a cousin of mine who refuses to believe that it isn't.

EDIT to be on topic : In any event...I hope the PSP fails and backs out of the portable gaming business. Its one area where I feel innovation is much called for (I have yet to see evidence to make me believe people are satisfied with home console games on the go) and Nintendo excels in the area whereas Sony is just piling on the technological goodies.

Yeah Im ignorant. I'm sure Sony execs are walking into the boardroom and they say "Hey, lets make some crap that only a few people want to buy."

America is the largest purchasing segment in the world. I can totally see how someone would make something that would never sale here.

Thanks for your incredible insight into the world market.

Last edited by Renocide : Apr 9, 2006 at 03:43 AM.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 03:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renocide
I used that particular "relaunch" because of the dollar amount that was listed while you were telling me that they didn't try to push it until 2001. I never said it was the first, only, or last.
Quote me on that. Please.

Quote:
What you don't know about the MiniDisc should have it's own Wikipedia entry:
What you fail to comprehend should deserve a few in that case. "For a format, multiple companies need to have invested in it and need to be pushing it with multiple partners " is what I said. But I made a reference to CD and DVD in which there were MULITPLE companies actually developing (investing) and promoting (through their respective labels) the format. NOT just licencing the technology to use. I would have hoped you knew this much?

Quote:
Sony sucked at marketing it. Sure. Ofourse relaunching it 4 times using magazine ads, television, and give-a-ways should have done something...Well thats the only dollar amount for a launch we have. Who's to say that the first one(1992) didn't have a larger budget. We don't know that. Ofcourse here we're talking about how you feel so...
Which is why the Walkman was a huge success? Trinitron? Anyway, those are just some trends about Sony marketing after their Betamax lesson. Followed by Playstation? Playstation 2? I don't make things up from nowhere and you don't exactly have to look hard to see where I draw my conclusions from.

Quote:
Yeah Im ignorant. I'm sure Sony execs are walking into the boardroom and they say "Hey, lets make some crap that only a few people want to buy."

America is the largest purchasing segment in the world. I can totally see how someone would make something that would never sale here.
Asia is only a few people? Ok you win because at this point I see there is no convincing you.

Last edited by a little boy : Apr 9, 2006 at 03:49 AM.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 03:48 AM   #33
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^^ ???? ^^

Hmm, after giving the article another read, I just realized it's NOT NEWS AT ALL.
Wow, PSP 2 possibly in 3 years! The only news is the possible scrapping of the
UMD format.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 04:11 AM   #34
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Indeed, it was but by the time I came in 2001, almost no one knew of the MD and I was the only one with such a device (except for the other asian kids from Hong Kong). It wasn't until a couple of years later that I saw actual MDs being sold in stores like mainstream stores like Bestbuy (around 2003?). I can only speculate that there was not a very serious push for it in the early years because of the aforementioned reason that the intended market was really Asia ( and you can read the reasons why it was successful in Asia in the article you posted, some of which I touched on ) because the North American market was simply not ready / not needing such a device.
So by 2001 you said there wasn't a push because you got to the states and realized no one owned any. I said that they had pushed FOUR times with millions of dollars and it didn't work. Why we are talking about this part is beyond me.

So your telling me that for BD to be successful they need mulitple partners and investors. Who helped Sony develope Blue-Ray? If a company wants to build a Blue-Ray player or disk who gets the licensing fee?
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 04:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Fisher
^^ ???? ^^

Hmm, after giving the article another read, I just realized it's NOT NEWS AT ALL.
Wow, PSP 2 possibly in 3 years! The only news is the possible scrapping of the
UMD format.
QFT when i read the article i was like 3 years, thats pretty much a obvious fact. I mean they usually come out 3-5 years after the first anywho. (i said usually). I for one am glad they are scrapping UMD, 1.8gb is not enough imo, and the damn discs are too slow.

Thing's i'd like to see in a PSP2

Proper support for 3rd party software
Better TFT panel, one which is 4ms in response time and not 450
two analog nubs
Faster game media,
4xaa as a minimum. Sorry but even small screens suffer from aliasing and the psp is one of them!
Built in tiny harddrive
Xbox live style online system to match with the ps3.


Seeing as the PSP was a ps1.8 (almost a ps2 but not quite), what can we guess the psp2 will be around? a ps 2.5?
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 07:54 AM   #36
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i think the argument of blu ray being more future-proof is completely retarded. i bet in the next FIVE years we'll have disks that holds TB of data. when that comes out, it'll blu ray will just be a piece of crap idea that looked good on paper, but impractical.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 08:51 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renocide
So by 2001 you said there wasn't a push because you got to the states and realized no one owned any. I said that they had pushed FOUR times with millions of dollars and it didn't work. Why we are talking about this part is beyond me.
We are talking about it because you were putting words in my mouth. And you're still doing it.

Quote:
So your telling me that for BD to be successful they need mulitple partners and investors. Who helped Sony develope Blue-Ray? If a company wants to build a Blue-Ray player or disk who gets the licensing fee?
I am telling you that by then(we already had CD!), and it is known that a true format that is designed with the future in mind and with the intention of worldwide "domination" is not 1) made by ONE company over the course of 2.) ONE year.

As for your question on Blu-Ray, it would be good if you do your own research because your starting point is skewed already in that you still think it is Sony's forrmat.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 09:35 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
We are talking about it because you were putting words in my mouth. And you're still doing it.



I am telling you that by then(we already had CD!), and it is known that a true format that is designed with the future in mind and with the intention of worldwide "domination" is not 1) made by ONE company over the course of 2.) ONE year.

As for your question on Blu-Ray, it would be good if you do your own research because your starting point is skewed already in that you still think it is Sony's forrmat.
Quote:
The Professional Disc for DATA (aka PDD or ProDATA), which was based on an optical disc system Sony had already been developing in the side, would eventually become the Blu-ray disc.
It's not Sony's format? I understand Phillips is sorta sitting in but we both know this is Sony's game.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 09:37 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
We are talking about it because you were putting words in my mouth. And you're still doing it.



I am telling you that by then(we already had CD!), and it is known that a true format that is designed with the future in mind and with the intention of worldwide "domination" is not 1) made by ONE company over the course of 2.) ONE year.

As for your question on Blu-Ray, it would be good if you do your own research because your starting point is skewed already in that you still think it is Sony's forrmat.
don't bother trying to reason with him. he obviously has some bias against sony.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 09:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renocide
It's not Sony's format? I understand Phillips is sorta sitting in but we both know this is Sony's game.
What? Now you're telling me that what you think you know is what I know too? Based on a quote with no source. Go look at who developed Blu-Ray, the committee members, the testing, etc. Where the original idea/inspiration is from has little relevance to the discussion at hand.
Quote:
don't bother trying to reason with him. he obviously has some bias against sony.
Indeed. His attitude, lack of history understanding in regards to the issue at hand, and degree of self-assurance makes him a hard one to crack (go read his statement on products and marketing worldwide...truly a classic sig material if there ever was one). If I used his reasoning, Blu-Ray would be a sure win because Victor/JVC (of VHS success) is one of the founding members of the committee (maybe this will do it )
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 09:47 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_preacher
don't bother trying to reason with him. he obviously has some bias against sony.
Yeah. So stop.

Hey preacher does that mean I can give up trying to reason with you because of your bias against the Xbox 360?
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 09:57 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
What? Now you're telling me that what you think you know is what I know too? Based on a quote with no source. Go look at who developed Blu-Ray, the committee members, the testing, etc. Where the original idea/inspiration is from has little relevance to the discussion at hand.

Indeed. His attitude, lack of history understanding in regards to the issue at hand, and degree of self-assurance makes him a hard one to crack (go read his statement on products and marketing worldwide...truly a classic sig material if there ever was one). If I used his reasoning, Blu-Ray would be a sure win because Victor/JVC (of VHS success) is one of the founding members of the committee (maybe this will do it )

I have provided links proving every point I made(execpt for the last quote but whats the point you live in your own little word and refuse to accept anything other than the fact that Sony is sunshine and roses). You have yet to provide any yet still try to argue a point because you feel it.



Hell you are FROM Asia yet have nearly zero grasp on the market or the formats that have come from it.

Like I have said. I have backed up my side of the conversation with links and you have backed up yours with...how you feel. Ugggg.

I think I need a shower.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 11:24 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renocide
I have provided links proving every point I made(execpt for the last quote but whats the point you live in your own little word and refuse to accept anything other than the fact that Sony is sunshine and roses). You have yet to provide any yet still try to argue a point because you feel it.

Hell you are FROM Asia yet have nearly zero grasp on the market or the formats that have come from it.

Like I have said. I have backed up my side of the conversation with links and you have backed up yours with...how you feel. Ugggg.

I think I need a shower.
You have argued with your misinterpretation of my points as well as the very links that you have provided. Yes, you have found links, but no, you fail to analyze and truly understand what is going on. I have used your links and applied reasoning and personal experience but you, being too narrow in your perspective have simply brushed my points away. Either that or you have acknowledged them but just have not bothered to mention it.

This is why dark_preacher (and probably others) see you as being unreasonable and me as being reasonable. Your "reasoning" and understanding of the world is simply under the acceptable standard for debate, which is why I was told to give up.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 01:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
You have argued with your misinterpretation of my points as well as the very links that you have provided. Yes, you have found links, but no, you fail to analyze and truly understand what is going on. I have used your links and applied reasoning and personal experience but you, being too narrow in your perspective have simply brushed my points away. Either that or you have acknowledged them but just have not bothered to mention it.

This is why dark_preacher (and probably others) see you as being unreasonable and me as being reasonable. Your "reasoning" and understanding of the world is simply under the acceptable standard for debate, which is why I was told to give up.
Thats almost laughable.

You indecated it was a analog device. You were wrong.

You said it was delay released in the US market because it was meant primarly as a Asian product. It's same time release in the US shows you were wrong.

You claim Sony never really pushed it in the US market. After I showed that they did release at the same time AND relaunched it THREE times we see that you were wrong again.

You stated it was not part of the digital age. We all know that the digital age began years before the MiniDisc was released. Again, you'r wrong.


You said Sony viewed it as a niche product for the Asian market. I showed that it was released in the Asian market AND the US market clearly showing that they intended it to be a worldwide success(even to the point of the relaunches in America). Again...

I give up. Your never going to get it. Have fun in your little world.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 01:33 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renocide
You indecated it was a analog device. You were wrong.
Your misinterpretation again?
Quote:
You said it was delay released in the US market because it was meant primarly as a Asian product. It's same time release in the US shows you were wrong.

You claim Sony never really pushed it in the US market. After I showed that they did release at the same time AND relaunched it THREE times we see that you were wrong again.

You said Sony viewed it as a niche product for the Asian market. I showed that it was released in the Asian market AND the US market clearly showing that they intended it to be a worldwide success(even to the point of the relaunches in America). Again...
You missed the rest of the thread apparently.
Quote:
You stated it was not part of the digital age. We all know that the digital age began years before the MiniDisc was released. Again, you'r wrong.
More evidence of your lack of analytical and understanding skills.
Quote:
I give up. Your never going to get it. Have fun in your little world.
I guess we can both agree on giving up on each other then. Only I have people supporting me and you are on your own.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 01:36 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
Your misinterpretation again?


You missed the rest of the thread apparently.




I guess we can both agree on giving up on each other then. Only I have people supporting me and you are on your own.

One guy. LOL Not to mention on of the biggest Sony fans of the boards.

If you want to claim dark_preacher go ahead. LOL

You rule.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 01:38 PM   #47
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Yes. Dark_preacher is a Sony fan. Perhaps that belongs with your many other ridiculous statements/misquotes you've made but never acknowledged as being wrong to.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 03:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a little boy
Yes. Dark_preacher is a Sony fan. Perhaps that belongs with your many other ridiculous statements/misquotes you've made but never acknowledged as being wrong to.
just let it go. he's trolling every single topic with his bias.

i admit i'm a sony fan. i'm also a nintendo, xbox, atari, intellivision, squaresoft, camelot, enix, working designs, namco, konami, mgs, etc...etc.... fan.

i'm a fan of gaming. trying to push your console biased agenda on people just makes you look like a tool. i've owned a 360 since launch, i've had a lot of fun playing it. does that change the fact that oblivions draw distance sucks? does that change the fact that fight night round 3 is a graphical upgrade but gameplay downgrade from round 2?

the 360 is great for what it is. i'll own mine for the duraton of my life, as i like to collect things and i don't part with them easily, a bit of a packrat. it has provided me with a couple hundred hours of gaming and i have a lot of fun with the arcade games. seeing it's current market situation and the games that are releasing for it reminds me of another console. i know it's been stated before but seems like it rings far truer now than ever.

360 = dreamcast of this generation.

it will be overshadowed by sony's machine and 3rd party support and nintendo's new controller and 1st party support. hopefully i'm wrong, i'll gladly eat my words to continue getting exclusives for all my next-gen consoles.

dreamcast had a ton of great games and it was sad day when sega dropped support for it.

the whole ms has tons of money argument is valid, i suppose. yeah they could keep supporting 360 even if it is a failure. then they could release another console to try to turn their fortune.

saturn to dreamcast, need i say more?
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 03:37 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_preacher
stuff

Your confussing your threads dark. This isn't about the 360. Its about Sony's failed formats(or atleast it is now) and a little boy's complete lack of knowledge of it.

Seeing as you two are Sony's biggest fans I'm not surprised you two are making giggle noises in the corner together. It's ok. I've never seen Brokeback Mountain and never will but thats not to say I think it should be banned.
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Old Apr 9, 2006, 05:44 PM   #50
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lemmme see if I can get this thread back on track

Things I'd want on the next PSP:

tv-out built-in
XBOX1 graphics
better battery life
802.11g
expansion slot for things such as broadband satellite cards
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Old Apr 11, 2006, 01:42 PM   #51
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Old Apr 12, 2006, 04:34 PM   #52
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Ok since were talking about failed formats id say this ... MD was a good alternative for a short timeperiod ... Sony didnt push the format as it did with UMDs or even DVDs for that matter .

As for Future format id stay away from HD DVD and Blue Ray coz they really dont hold any advantage to current gen product if u consider the prices of 250 GB drives ... also there are the HoloDisks ... they seem interesting but mostly becuse they wont be play only limited use media like the Blue Ray and HD DVD ... and there Trusted Computing and market profiling technology ... I dont need a format that will tell me that i am not allowed to do this or that with it ...

Since our NON standard codecs ala xvid and divx and x264 by far outway the regular h264 and mpeg2, in terms of requiered decode capacity and compresion ratios , i dont see any reason to buy expensive new storage equipement if i can fit the same quality on a DVD5 R typ disk ... that vould be stupid.

The main intent of HD DVD and Blue Ray is not increased storage space but to limit the use of digital media to a controlable point so that the big once are in control and not the users ... if u think that HD is revolutionary i dont know what u have been doin in front of your comps for the last few years ... except fall for one marketing hype after another ...

if u are looking for advanced formats try solid state disks or advanced eprom technology or the holodiscs and not another schratchfriendly optical solution with a different laser frequency and a higher resolution on the storage medium included to a TCP platform ...
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Old Apr 12, 2006, 07:39 PM   #53
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Isnt it a LITTLE early for Sony to be talking about a PSP2?

If I were a PSP owner I would certainly be slightly pissed at Sony if I heard this.. as is the PSP has very very few hardware selling games.. Sony needs to concentrate on getting you guys some AAA titles for that sexy little hand held.. Ive played it, it has the power.. it has promise, but it has no love.

(Yea i have a DS, im not downtalkin your PSP though, both CAN be cool in their own right, Nintendo has just proven this better due to software)
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Old Apr 12, 2006, 08:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seerkin
Isnt it a LITTLE early for Sony to be talking about a PSP2?

If I were a PSP owner I would certainly be slightly pissed at Sony if I heard this.. as is the PSP has very very few hardware selling games.. Sony needs to concentrate on getting you guys some AAA titles for that sexy little hand held.. Ive played it, it has the power.. it has promise, but it has no love.

(Yea i have a DS, im not downtalkin your PSP though, both CAN be cool in their own right, Nintendo has just proven this better due to software)
No man, it isn't too early. Companies plan out products years in advance. When the PS2 came out, the PS3 was already in the works.

When I worked at Colgate-Palmolive this summer, one of the product managers told me that they have their releases planned out 8 years in advance .
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Old Apr 12, 2006, 08:38 PM   #55
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Yea i suppose planning ahead is good, I was just suprised as it seems that the PSP is so very young.. and haveing a hard time in the software market, it just seems odd that sony has already decided its "successful enough" and went ahead with PSP2 planning.
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Old Apr 12, 2006, 08:42 PM   #56
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The PSP isn't having a hard time at all. Its selling strongly and consistently. The UMD video is a failure, but UMD games are still selling well.
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 04:06 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidavi
The PSP isn't having a hard time at all. Its selling strongly and consistently. The UMD video is a failure, but UMD games are still selling well.
Are you sure? The UMD movies are being discontinued from what I hear citing poor sales. PSP games are a joke, and the damn thing requires more updates than counter-strike. Battery life is crap and it's poorly made (dead pixels still exist, analog knob can't take gamer punishment and the x and o buttons continue to get stuck).

DS outsells PSP.
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 05:16 PM   #58
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ds outsell psp in japan and not in the US
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 06:40 PM   #59
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ds outsell psp in japan and not in the US
Source?
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Old Jun 11, 2006, 10:45 PM   #60
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^ROFL!!! This guy is such a PSP h8r that he goes and finds an old PSP threads to revive and shoot crap at it.

I kept my mouth shut everytime you posted about the PSP, but this is too much
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