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Old Nov 29, 2019, 07:35 AM   #361
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Eisberg
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
They disavowed everything. Everything before Disney they consider legacy now. This book is basically considered Canon under Disneys starwara though so it still holds true.





From reading? I don't ubderstand the question.
Reading what?
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 07:39 AM   #362
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Reading what?
The book I mentioned in the post. Starwars Aftermath.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 08:36 AM   #363
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4th episode was pretty mediocre.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 09:07 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
The book I mentioned in the post. Starwars Aftermath.
You didn't mention the book at all in your post, you didn't say where you got that information, which is why I asked.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 03:00 PM   #365
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 03:06 PM   #366
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now the play buttons on his gloves work
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 03:47 PM   #367
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Just need to photoshop this face on...




and then we have...

The BARRY MANDOLIN
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 04:35 PM   #368
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Episode 4 was basically scene for scene the same story that was in a Clone Wars episode.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 05:03 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Munkus View Post
Episode 4 was basically scene for scene the same story that was in a Clone Wars episode.
Do you remember what episode that is?
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 05:23 PM   #370
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Because using fuel in starships, ect, really needs a great amount of explanation
if it's a major, MAJOR, non-magical, plot device, that is at least a bit somehow ground in reality? absolutely!!! this is why the midichlorians didn't really work. they tried to explain the magic of the force with science and biology.
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because people won't know what fuel actually is?
There a difference between just knowing what fuel is and coming up with plot devices that don't make you read wookiepedia at 3am or burst out laughing when talked about in the movie.

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There isn't anything BS about it, Starships in Star Wars run on fuel, that is all that is ever needed to know because everyone and their dog knows what fuel does.
see above.



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Star Wars never ever went into any kind of explanation of how their tech works, because it isn't science fiction, you can over think this stuff and might as well as say the light saber is BS, or that the Force is BS.
while not straight up hard science fiction, it definitely ticks enough boxes to be considered a soft science fiction imo, among other things.

i don't think it's about over thinking. i think if you want to bring about a element that should be common, like fuel, in a series that barely ever talks about fuel, in stories where travel requiring fuel is very common, it's asking for trouble.

but the biggest bottom line is we accepted light sabers and the force and force ghosts for the most part because they were set up reasonably well, and fit with the story. not because it's logical or everyone knows the concept already.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 05:33 PM   #371
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can your argument really be broken down to "if it wasn't mentioned in the movies, then it should never be mentioned anywhere else"? Cause that is what I am getting out of it.
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 07:02 PM   #372
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Look at it this way, is it fair to throw a major plot device, that the entire movie hinges on, into it without there being mention of it previously in other movies? Is that a smart way to go down? If you answer yes, then all the happiness to you.
It’s like saying “oh idk, Jedi abilities allow you to survive in space” or something ridiculous like that...
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Old Nov 29, 2019, 08:50 PM   #373
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I'm enjoying the series, but I didn't have lofty expectations. We are already halfway thru the season too I noticed.
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 02:11 AM   #374
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And Maul didn't die by being cut in half and falling down a shaft. And, if the trailers are to be believed, Palps didn't die by getting tossed into the Death Star's reactor meltdown. Man, bad guys are tough hombres in the SW universe.
Wasn't Darth Maul resurrected after the Disney takeover made to be seen as GL selling the ip? Hahaha

Damn I really wished he had thicker skin and went and made his own SW films and television series like he planned but way too many fanboys hated the PT and Jar Jar... who is a far better character than Rey.

I feel Disney staff are abusing the originally established characters and CGi to resurrect them into film for $$$$ and lameness... so the idea of clinging to the Emperor who GL kept as a very mysterious character in the OT and PT... like he did with Maul because there really is no need to fully explain why a killing obsessed faction wants to take power when they are outnumbered... until I personally met Ray Parks who told me how GL said the character was not needed in Ep2 it didn't make sense but then it did... because of the 10 year time gap would cause way too many problems to explain so resurrecting him which originally was done in a pre-Disney comic as a sort of one shot story with hardly any dialogue or reasoning other than revenge... it was nice as a comic... but doing it for Clone Wars, etc then it's like old comic book character abuse of no one really dies. It's sad... I feel if anything a story set in the past when they were alive would make more sense so long as it was fully GL approved and not cosigned to abuse or assassinate the characters.

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Who said anything about trailers? It's in the book star wars aftermath it is set up to look very much like he did which is more evidence than your because I said so approach.
I remember that SW Aftermath was a Disney tool to basically dictate what they wanted to set up for the films so it's a Disney creation and unfortunately people who love Star Wars will easily be confused.

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Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
Fuel was brought up several times in Star Wars Clone Wars, which is canon and created by George Lucas, and again in Star Wars Rebels. I also remember fuel being mentioned in the Solo movie.

Fuel is nothing new in the Star Wars universe and is a part of the canon.

Mandalorian armor is made of some really touch metal, it would have protected him from the Rhino.
Ok I don't remember "fuel" being mentioned in the pre-Disney Clone Wars so I'll need an episode where it's mentioned... however maybe because it's all out war, a writer who can, under the umbrella of GL's name being there can pretty much get away with using fuel as a plot device.

Now I'm not saying that SW "fuel" doesn't exist... however it did not need to be mentioned at all... but they did in the Disney SW as a plot device for bs reasons just like abuse of the hyperspace system to "by pass a defence force shield" or ram into an enemy ship which is to also bypass their shields... this only creates plot problems* or make "bad azz set piece scenes" which were atrocious, pretentious and insulting in the Disney SW films.

Essentially why bother send real living or droid troops when your ancient technology of SW could be made to send hyperspace drone nukes? Yeesh and yuck.

Erm remember that Beskar Steel or Iron or whatever is only a shoulder pad when the hairy egg or testicle looking egg laying space rhino slams into Mando Fett's chest twice... on that note in AotC the filmmakers were very careful of how that other more fantasy alien rhino hit Jango Fett... I could even use the slow motion on blu ray just to double check it but in this series it's just a cartoon hit... Mando Fett might as well be Tom or Jerry or Daffy Duck or Wiley Coyote at that point.

It kinda bothers me because the hoopla that Mandalorians and Bounty Hunters are supposed to be very highly skilled HUNTERS with the former using military tactics training... also the Sarlacc mouth is filled with pointy teeth like objects and it was implied that there's a stomach that digests it's victims...

Again I'll just say it is rather bothersome to make the character a punching bag for stuff that in a logical sense could squash a humanoid which is what Mandalorians are... at least KOTOR 1 and 2 explained stuff like personal shields to soften blows... but when said armot is visibly short circuiting with sparks and bends... something ain't right.

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doesn't matter if it's canon. if the movie/show doesn't make sense/or it's not explained in a satisfying way, or where you have to do additional readings, it's bs.
This!

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Originally Posted by Eisberg View Post
Because using fuel in starships, ect, really needs a great amount of explanation because people won't know what fuel actually is? There isn't anything BS about it, Starships in Star Wars run on fuel, that is all that is ever needed to know because everyone and their dog knows what fuel does. Star Wars never ever went into any kind of explanation of how their tech works, because it isn't science fiction, you can over think this stuff and might as well as say the light saber is BS, or that the Force is BS.
Well the OT and PT did have implied explanations in a sense... the technology seen is old... so old that the Millennium Falcon is seen as a hunk of junk by a political princess in the first film... apparently her short remark implies that there's better... and yet Han desperately tries to mention that the Falcon can outrun Imperial cruisers which essentially ESB basically focused on.

They also do mention that the Death Star has a reactor core... if we were to assume based on basic knowledge of our realistic nuclear reactors... the idea is that this is power generated without need of burning fuels...

The exhaust port was a blueprint schematic weakness and the magically needed womprat shot was a miracle for a moving object shot to just change trajectory.. at least it was addressed so we believe in it.

I am aware that even George Lucas does not call Star Wars scifi... he pretty much used the term space fantasy... because there is mythical stuff in there.. and the PT further explains how the Galactic Republic was formed a thousand years ago during a war with the Sith... a thousand years is a long time for tech and multiple races and species of advanced cultures in a well connected galactic government... hyperspace travel is used and explained fairly well... a leak in the hyperspace hyperdrive was explained well... especially in what's supposed to be a Space Bentley or Rolls Royce Royal Star Ship (which off topic is what the Prometheus ship in Prometheus film is fully implied to be... no real explanation needed)

Hell we didn't even need to actually see the Death Star go into hyperspace... because it just does and assumes a gravitational orbit instead of behaving like a Star Destroyer.

I mean if the Jawas ripped apart Mando Fett's ship... wouldn't they have taken the fuel and used it up... why does he go inside like an idiot and try to turn the ship on? A guy who's able to rebuild a ship faster than Han Solo and Chewbacca can plot device repair the Millennium Falcon in ESB?

The light sabers were well explained, those vibro blades don't need much explanation and the force was explained as a "belief" that many others simply do not believe in even if they see it... especially battle obsessed Mandalorians and bounty hunters.

I actually accepted the "midichlorian" explanation in Episode one because that's something only the Jedi or maybe the Sith would care about knowing... anyone outside of being force trained wouldn't need to know that like the films didn't really mention how the Jedi basically legally kidnapped force sensitive children to be chosen as jedi monks because George Lucas clearly visibly and obviously modeled the Jedi after the ancient Chinese region Shaolin Monks which were nearly wiped out by a military general turned emperor or something like that.

I feel the films used midichlorians appropriately and lightly... not as a measure of actual strength... Yoda definitely has or had the highest count but they are not Dragon Ball Z power levels and even in that fantasy anime power levels are meaningless if a character can effectively kill a stronger opponent.

I feel AotC pretty much explained how a much younger and obviously Sith mind trick influenced Dooku believed he was more knowledgeable and stronger than Yoda... and then the even younger Obi Wan uses a light saber to block "Sith Lightning" which is clearly stated in the pre-Disney books to be a destructive and life killing evil power that Jedi would not use.

Also I feel the PT pretty much explained by indirect implication how a character (that we know) who is a malevolent force user is definitely using mind tricks (without hand waving) in such a subtle way that you have to analyze the scenes.

Just saying... I do wanna keep watching this series as it has potential but Disney is making it so we're doomed either way.

I don't want to debate it but my explanation took too many words to make.

Also it should be noted that in both ESB and AotC an outside viewing or mapping of the known SW Galaxy is clearly shown... this plus that the Rebels had to always run away from large Imperial fleets means that fuel is a sensitive topic to be used... essentially Mando is whining about something that doesn't make sense... he is offered other forms of "currency" and we already knew he collected massive bounties... if we have an episode where he runs out of fuel then he might as well run out of air and gravity.

I'll say it again... Star Trek's use of what runs their ships is properly explained and was not abused like TLJ did... considering how much slower Warp speed is to hyperspace and how Voyager was about accidentally warping to the other side of the galaxy in an unknown quadrant where they basically did state it would take them years to get back.

I have both the Blu Ray GL SW and the older collector's tin which has the original film versions of SW without the alterations of the Special editions in DVD format which apparently must be worth a fortune... I'll have to check ebay and sell them lol.

Also to be fair ANH does mention how a Tie Fighter cannot be so far away from a Star Destroyer until they realized that object wasn't a moon.
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 03:45 AM   #375
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can you expand on the above please...
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 08:30 AM   #376
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can you expand on the above please...
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 09:28 AM   #377
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 11:46 AM   #378
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You didn't mention the book at all in your post, you didn't say where you got that information, which is why I asked.
Which post? I've said starwars Aftermath in two posts now.

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Old Nov 30, 2019, 01:45 PM   #379
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Episode 4 was kinda meh, and the whole romance plot came out of nowhere and felt forced as hell.

Also for how strong the mandelorians are supposed to be, its really comical how much he gets his ass kicked in the combat situation. Even the shock trooper is better at combat than him.
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Old Nov 30, 2019, 02:39 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by clerick View Post
Also for how strong the mandelorians are supposed to be, its really comical how much he gets his ass kicked in the combat situation. Even the shock trooper is better at combat than him.
Isn't he adopted by the Mandalorians? He's a well trained human?
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 01:28 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
Isn't he adopted by the Mandalorians? He's a well trained human?
Iirc even in KOTOR and this series it seems implied that the path of a Mandalorian is s choice because Mandalorians are an amalgamation of samurai, warrior knights, gladiators and vikings among other things so they're essentially can be humanoids... iirc they used to have a planet called Mandalore or something and they used to have a leader or a title named Mandalore who is basically like the absolute military generalissimo.

KOTOR 1 and 2 mention (note that the stories there take place over two thousands years iirc from ANH) that they were easily manipulated by the Sith (Darth Revan and Malak) to fight against the Old Republic and Jedi making for a messy space war.

This jives with George Lucas intentions in using Jango Fett as the DNA donor to make clones which are just far stronger than the imperial troops in the OT films because they live for battle (like the Mandalorians) are programmed to be fearless, etc.

The main distinction between a humanoid who chooses or is allowed to become a Mandalorian is that Mandalorians do not believe in "the force" and iirc they don't care about it and may be resistant to mind tricks unless the force user is highly wise and powerful.

Btw I'm going off memory here not looking up some wiki... but yes they are supposed to be highly trained but primarily for military purposes but because they were nearly wiped out and probably the Old Republic imposed rules, they cannot be making massive armies which may be a link to that planet getting bombed by droids in that perhaps that is a planet that Mandalorians settled and trained on but also had the peace of mind of raising a family to make new warriors. Iirc they are also tribal too.

Of course all that stuff is pre Disney so anything who knows what they'll want to define them as...

In the SW vusual encyclopedia books, Boba Fett had Padawan hair braid collections in the OT which iirc the book revealed were indeed from Padawans as GL was very crafty in hiding details.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 03:43 AM   #382
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By the way, Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian in canon.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 01:03 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Akumajo View Post
Iirc even in KOTOR and this series it seems implied that the path of a Mandalorian is s choice because Mandalorians are an amalgamation of samurai, warrior knights, gladiators and vikings among other things so they're essentially can be humanoids... iirc they used to have a planet called Mandalore or something and they used to have a leader or a title named Mandalore who is basically like the absolute military generalissimo.

KOTOR 1 and 2 mention (note that the stories there take place over two thousands years iirc from ANH) that they were easily manipulated by the Sith (Darth Revan and Malak) to fight against the Old Republic and Jedi making for a messy space war.

This jives with George Lucas intentions in using Jango Fett as the DNA donor to make clones which are just far stronger than the imperial troops in the OT films because they live for battle (like the Mandalorians) are programmed to be fearless, etc.

The main distinction between a humanoid who chooses or is allowed to become a Mandalorian is that Mandalorians do not believe in "the force" and iirc they don't care about it and may be resistant to mind tricks unless the force user is highly wise and powerful.

Btw I'm going off memory here not looking up some wiki... but yes they are supposed to be highly trained but primarily for military purposes but because they were nearly wiped out and probably the Old Republic imposed rules, they cannot be making massive armies which may be a link to that planet getting bombed by droids in that perhaps that is a planet that Mandalorians settled and trained on but also had the peace of mind of raising a family to make new warriors. Iirc they are also tribal too.

Of course all that stuff is pre Disney so anything who knows what they'll want to define them as...

In the SW vusual encyclopedia books, Boba Fett had Padawan hair braid collections in the OT which iirc the book revealed were indeed from Padawans as GL was very crafty in hiding details.
Thanks, appreciate the history of this.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 01:43 PM   #384
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By the way, Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian in canon.
Yes he was. That was changed under Disney canon.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 07:10 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Canesfan2020 View Post
Yes he was. That was changed under Disney canon.
Is there a list of changes post Disney I can look at?
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 10:10 PM   #386
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By the way, Jango Fett is not a Mandalorian in canon.
I gotta double check my Blu Ray special SW collection I purchased years ago way back before the Disney SW started up but way way way back in the early 2000s I haf and still have an official Lucasfilm SW Attack of the Clones teaser trailer that iirc did not have the final title.

This is way back before anyone knew about the clone troopers being revealed or even Jango Fett.

I don't know if the trailer is on yt as I tried looking a while back and I'm not so big of a SW fan anymore anyway. The point is that in the trailer there was Natalie Portman (signifying it's real and not a scene lifted from Ep 1) and iirc a bunch of characters dressed up as Boba Fett but having variation details on their armor and accessories.

George Lucas was genius because he tried to keep character and plot background as secretive as possible and this is before the first KOTOR game came out...

Note that those games make references to 90s comics which touched on bits on stuff like Korriban, the original Sith whom the first fallen Jedi enslaved and stuff like Sith War which was basically sparked off from a powerful Sith Lord dying of old age and the remaining Sith Lords fighting and back stabbing each other in a power vacuum which even if those comics didn't have GL... it seems like the writers were given enough material to make a sensible and fairly credible story in the 90s before Ep 1 revealed the Sith rule of two... still those stories took place around 5,000 years before A New Hope and Mandalorians existed, more star systems existed and a the old Republic existed but obviously a different type because in Ep 1 it's established that thousands of years before the Hutts somehow ruled the galaxy and a thousand years before Ep the Sith ruled or were dominant.

KOTOR draws a parallel to the way that the ancient Sith manipulated a war, conquest and honor obsessed Mandalorians... then around the same time of a few months or a year... AotC highlights without hand holding you that secret Sith plan made to look like it was set up by a Jedi who was mysteriously murdered to have clones (which were as illegal as battle droids and destroyer droids because they are war weapons and the Jedi tried to have the Republic prevent war by preventing weapons being mass produced which Sith Lords need to stage their coup)

Essentially Ep 2 fully demonstrates the film version of a Mandalorian... also didn't Boba Fett's holiday special appearance mention that he was a Mandalorian? That word existed in the early 80s toyline... I know because I had a few of the small catalogs that came with an AT-ST I had.

And curiously enough the PS1 SW Battle of Teras Kasi fighting game had multiple Boba Fett type characters... so.

Ehh finally saw the new ep... wow so lame... the Mandalorian is a weak female dog in heat... and somehow he is now a "good guy hero"??!! Wtf...

This character is now an emotional tampon... seriously.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 10:19 PM   #387
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Episode 4 was directed by Bryce Dallas Howard.
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Old Dec 1, 2019, 10:22 PM   #388
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Is there a list of changes post Disney I can look at?
I'm not sure if there is an itemized list. You're safe bet is everything you know. Disney decided that everything before Disney is legacy and no longer canon.
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Old Dec 2, 2019, 01:16 AM   #389
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Thanks, appreciate the history of this.
You're welcome, I try not to rant too much and those first two KOTOR games gave me a different perspective on the Star Wars universe and got me to look for the comics which were quite enjoyable and kinda hold up well... the whole premise was very interesting in a slight error during a hyperspace jump (which is calculated via known routes but in the story it was an attempt at discovering a new one) and I forget if it was Ulic Qel Droma or something but they discovered the star systems dominated by Sith which starts a war for conquest.

Also in the pre-SW encyclopedia the Jedi Council temple on Coruscant is actually built on top of an archaeological Jedi site which is protected by the Jedi (implying previous ages of chaotic wars)

On a side note it's pretty sad that imho the first two KOTOR games were handled poorly and by different dev teams. Bioware can kiss my arse for abandoning making proper sequels and abandoning the RPG gameplay in favor of lame action controls in their later games.

It's worse that the PC versions are best because of the excessive load times on og xbox... and super sucked that no one ever has bothered to make an HD remake... the nice thing about those games is that they made a ton or references to the 90s comics, other than that never cared for that lame and useless mmorpg. Like Republic Commando whenever a really nice near hardcore single player SW game is made it's like there is no respect for it by the devs.

On a side note iirc SW Aftermath also added an "origin story or outline" to the Jedi, force and Sith with some major b.s. that contradicts the cool dark history vagueness that existed before.

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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
Isn't he adopted by the Mandalorians? He's a well trained human?
Episode 4 pretty much confirms this and how lame and illogical the writing is... it basically turns kiddie show friendly or tries too hard... and the title character went from Mando to Mandy real quick. :rollseyes:

I swear each ep plays out like some fanboy is playing with action figures making a Disney fanfic instead of a serious story.

Edit my bad finally found that teaser trailer I had on vhs and turns out it was fake made by sw fanboys...crap

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUvOE-QZQQE
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If anything there's just still too many guilible people in the fanbase willing to accept this garbage star wars disney/Kennedy edition."

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Old Dec 2, 2019, 01:22 PM   #390
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Vibro-Swords?

Are they here? Any Mandalorian worth their salt can challenge a Jedi, if they are experts they can even beat them.

Not Rey though because she's so Woke to the Force, she even buffs the Saber skills of her allies from non-user to proficient.
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