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Old Dec 19, 2003, 04:20 PM   #1
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Ghostwarrior
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Default Radeon 9600XT vs. GeForce 5700

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display...D=274&PageID=7

Someone I know ordered a Gainward 5700 recently, I told him the 9600XT was better....

GG_GeForce is owned!
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 05:42 PM   #2
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too bad Nvidia is better, especially with fewer driver problems. It's absolutely not true that NVIDIA has just as many driver problems but doesn't keep them "out in the open." That's absolutely ridiculous. ATI's hardware might be better, but the drivers are what make it perform the way it should, and clearly in my experience and many others' experience as well, ATI's drivers BLOW. One example of a bug that hasn't been fixed in about 6 months+, maybe longer, is the counter-strike bug. How can they not fix this? The hell with ATI, as soon as I get the extra money on the side, I'm selling this piece of junk and will never buy ATI cards again, unless of course they decide to fix the damn problems they know they CAN fix...well should be able to fix at least.
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 05:55 PM   #3
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And another (NEWER THAN THE COMPETITOR'S) nVidia product gets owned.
bigOne, think for a second. CS is an old game (and in my opinion bug ridden and full of cheaters), it has a QUAKE 1 BASED engine which was written eons ago.
Some users (majority) have absolutely no problems with the game and the speed doesn't drop (below 100FPS).
Other users have problems and they rant about it all day long. I won't deny some problems exist.
About them:
Do you think ATi didn't try to reproduce the issues reported?
Don't you think that, being a rather old "bug" (reported long ago), ATi didn't try to squash it within driver updates?
Have you ever stopped and podered it might be an engine-related problem and ATi can't do nothing about it?

I'm sure Valve won't like the idea to rewrite part of the engine as they're trying to make Steam better (and it'll take time...) spending most of the dev. time on Half Life 2.

Last edited by Pr()ZaC : Dec 19, 2003 at 06:07 PM.
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 06:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigOne
too bad Nvidia is better, especially with fewer driver problems. It's absolutely not true that NVIDIA has just as many driver problems but doesn't keep them "out in the open." That's absolutely ridiculous.
I disagree here due to the simple fact that I believe Nvidia uses us as guinea pig beta testers by throwing out sooooooooo many "leaked" (lol...easily available leaked) drivers, they are bound to get it right with their official releases.

Nvidia drivers have almost always been rock solid, I give you that. Nvidia does have better Open GL support too, I'm hoping ATI can get better OGL support soon.

Mind you I am NOT an ATI fanatic, I swore I would never buy another ATI product after I bought a $300 paperweight, Rage Fury Maxx, when it was released waaaaaaaaaaaay back. I havent owned one till this 9800XT. So far so good with everything I like to play.
I just wanted a full DX9 feature capable card that will run it all with eyecandy and speed. That's just what I got too.
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 08:22 PM   #5
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Nvidia drivers USED to be rock solid - like back in the 30.82 days.

But their FX architecture totally sucks for DX9 support. Why would you want
to spend money for a card that requires games to be rewritten because the
FX cards deviate from the DX9 spec so badly?

Their recent drivers are full of optimizations, image quality compromises,
out right cheats and hacks as well as instabilities.

Couple all that with their corporate behavior, such as the 3D Mark scandal, and
you can see why giving Nvidia anything as a reward for their efforts and behavior
is simply unwise.

ATI may not be perfect, but they are not the scumbags that Nvidia has turned into.
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 09:50 PM   #6
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Cool

The GeForce FX 5700 Ultra is a worthy competitor to the Radeon 9600XT! In today's games, the two are VERY CLOSE in performance. In most games, they're within a few percentage points. That's with and without AA and AF. Of course, it remains to be seen how well the 5700 Ultra will do in DX 9.0 games like HL2.

The 5700 Ultra is not the real threat to the 9600XT. In fact, it's about to be replaced by an even more competitive card. eVGA is releasing a new card called the 5900SE that will be clocked slightly slower than a 5900 non-Ultra. It will retail for around $200, or about the same as the discontinued 5900 non-Ultra. The FX 5900SE will share the 256-bit memory interface of the 5900 Ultra. It will undoubtedly thrash the 9600XT in current games. The only drawback, however, is DX 9.0 performance. Nvidia definitely has some competitive products out there. Some are comparing the 5900SE to the Geforce4 Ti 4200!!! It'll get even more exciting when R420 and NV40 debut next year.
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Old Dec 19, 2003, 09:58 PM   #7
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IMO, nvidia has been a little quiet. How long can it possibly take them to make a DX9 card already? I mean Nvidia used to plop out cards like water. Instead we get the 5700 and a 5950 rehash.

I think they have the tech for a DX9 card, possibly even a working sample, just that they cant top the architecture, rendering pipelines, speed, etc. of the Radeon yet, so they wont release one.
It would be hard to justify buying the latest Nvidia "DX9" card if it still gets trounced by an older card already out.

Just my opinion.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 03:18 AM   #8
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Yeah, it is the cheap 5900XT (5900se) that I am fearing.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:09 AM   #9
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The 5700ultra does well in OpenGL games compared to the 9600XT,but Nvidia has always been good in OpenGL games.But the lowered clocked 5900's witch are the ,XT, SE are going to be a better deal in the $200 price range.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by john19055
The 5700ultra does well in OpenGL games compared to the 9600XT,but Nvidia has always been good in OpenGL games.But the lowered clocked 5900's witch are the ,XT, SE are going to be a better deal in the $200 price range.
Yeah, it does seem like the better deal for now. But once DX9 titles starts coming, it won't be anymore.
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"Humans in general are very self-interested, while expecting all other humans around them to be selfless."
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:30 AM   #11
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okay, nvidia does have just as many driver problems. just not of the same nature. do you think that there aa works in every game for everybody? no, just go look at some forums. they have the same problems with nwn after the patch got put out a bit back, or at least the water was screwed up.

anyway, i'm just going to say this. ati, plain and simply, has the best driver support around. they do an awesome job. after all, they make games run, though sometimes not at optimal performance, that are filled with nvidia code, such as neverwinter nights. some things don't always work perfectly. but i don't think all of the blame lies on ati's shoulders, there's this little thing called windows update that works wonders. one of my friends never uses it, and he has pretty much the same setup as mine, and he has tons of probs. on the other hand, i use it every week, and i have almost no problems. the reason for this.... ati does all their testing on updated windows platforms.

ati is not teh suxxors, they are the roxxors just for making things work.

and even if nvidia cards CAN run aa in every game.... it doesn't matter... have you seen a screenshot of their "8x" anti-aliasing? all i have to say is i guess anybody can just put whatever number in front of that x that they want, cuz to me, it looks just like ati's 2x aa.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigOne
One example of a bug that hasn't been fixed in about 6 months+, maybe longer, is the counter-strike bug.
You mean the Counter-Strike bug that got fixed about six months ago?

Back on topic, the 5700 is a much better competitor to ATi's mid-range cards, but it still suffers from those same old Pixel Shader 2.0 performance issues.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 08:23 AM   #13
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I also believe that 5950se would be a tougher competitor to 9600xt.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 08:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by NoTicket
though sometimes not at optimal performance, that are filled with nvidia code, such as neverwinter nights.
what did I miss? I play Neverwinter Nights @1280 with lotsa eye candy, am I missing something here?

Seens to run fine for me, and Ive done some marathon sessions in the Hordes Of The Underdark expansion.
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Old Dec 20, 2003, 07:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostwarrior
what did I miss? I play Neverwinter Nights @1280 with lotsa eye candy, am I missing something here?

Seens to run fine for me, and Ive done some marathon sessions in the Hordes Of The Underdark expansion.
no you're not missing something, it's just a performance issue that plagues many users. i'm not one of them by the way.
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Old Dec 21, 2003, 04:48 AM   #16
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I'm stunned that after all the crap Nvidia has pulled this year that ANYBODY would
want to buy one of their cards. Especially the FX series, which has sucky DX9...
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