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Old Mar 18, 2009, 12:16 AM   #151
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sittal
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carb kit for my previous car, 88 chrysler fifth avenue.
my brother ended up breaking some gay emissions thing and the car doesn't accelerate properly now :|
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Old May 3, 2009, 01:17 PM   #152
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Default 1996 Ford Thunderbird LX 3.8L

I converted the rear drums to discs

I forgot to take a before picture of the drums but everyone probably knows what drums look like.
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Old May 3, 2009, 03:24 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoug View Post
I converted the rear drums to discs

I forgot to take a before picture of the drums but everyone probably knows what drums look like.
Awesome, what was it a civic?

Well since friday I've been changing my water pump and just put a new timing belt on.

Boy I tell you, the reassurance of having a new belt is great. I really love working on my car. As long as it isn't suspension stuff. I can't stand balljoints.
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Old May 3, 2009, 03:45 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by GRimm862 View Post
Awesome, what was it a civic?

Well since friday I've been changing my water pump and just put a new timing belt on.

Boy I tell you, the reassurance of having a new belt is great. I really love working on my car. As long as it isn't suspension stuff. I can't stand balljoints.
1996 Ford Thunderbird LX with 3.8L V6. Removing the old parking brake cable was a pain in the ass.
I changed my car's front suspension stuff last august, a fun time that was.
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Old May 3, 2009, 03:49 PM   #155
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Hows it feel I bet you'll notice less brake fade at higher speeds. IE: coming off the highway.

Drum brakes suck.
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Old May 3, 2009, 04:00 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRimm862 View Post
Hows it feel I bet you'll notice less brake fade at higher speeds. IE: coming off the highway.

Drum brakes suck.
yes, drums = teh suck
I haven't really gotten to drive around yet.
I'll be going out some in about 30 minutes so I'll see how well they work.
here is a couple old pics from the car pic thread so you guys can see the rest of my car.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...post1335373962
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I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari Kiri Rock. I need scissors! 61!

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Old May 3, 2009, 07:28 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by GRimm862 View Post
Hows it feel I bet you'll notice less brake fade at higher speeds. IE: coming off the highway.

Drum brakes suck.
Strange those drum brakes stop those Semi-Tractors quite effectively.

Most Drum to Disc conversions on the rear wheels of cars are done primarily for the looks factor. Many rear disc systems actually offer only equal stopping power, but at the cost of added complexity and seized parking brakes...

Then you have the fact that 90+% of your braking is done with the front brakes... I seriously doubt he'll notice any improvement assuming his previous brakes were in good condition.

But I digress, they do look better behind an nice rim, than a drum does. As far as front brakes go, they are a better option.

*note: I'm not taking into the realm of high end sports cars.
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Old May 3, 2009, 07:57 PM   #158
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Drum brakes still suck.
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Old May 4, 2009, 08:58 AM   #159
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I drove it. Yay!
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Old May 4, 2009, 09:00 AM   #160
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Still working on buffing the finish to perfection. Applied ColorX yesterday to revive the finish after using an aggressive buffing compound. ColorX restored clarity and brilliance to the worked panels. Just have to apply a few coats of glaze and a couple coats of wax and she's finally all done.

Before and after of ColorX, application on right of course.

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Old May 4, 2009, 04:31 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post
Strange those drum brakes stop those Semi-Tractors quite effectively.

Most Drum to Disc conversions on the rear wheels of cars are done primarily for the looks factor. Many rear disc systems actually offer only equal stopping power, but at the cost of added complexity and seized parking brakes...

Then you have the fact that 90+% of your braking is done with the front brakes... I seriously doubt he'll notice any improvement assuming his previous brakes were in good condition.

But I digress, they do look better behind an nice rim, than a drum does. As far as front brakes go, they are a better option.

*note: I'm not taking into the realm of high end sports cars.
I can tell a difference in my car's braking. it stops faster with the same amount of pedal travel that I used on the drums.
The drums weren't very effective after I upgraded the front calipers to dual piston ones from an 04 mustang gt. the car nose dived during braking but now it doesn't do it nearly as much as it did with drums. the drums also made a kind of clicking sound during semi-hard braking which i imagine was the shoes shifting around on the springs.
my car stops a lot better now.
drums suck.
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Old May 4, 2009, 05:51 PM   #162
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Scraped the bottom of the front fender on a HUGE inclined driveway doing a 3 pointer on a narrow road. Who the **** makes these driveways anyways?
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Old May 4, 2009, 05:54 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post
Strange those drum brakes stop those Semi-Tractors quite effectively.

Most Drum to Disc conversions on the rear wheels of cars are done primarily for the looks factor. Many rear disc systems actually offer only equal stopping power, but at the cost of added complexity and seized parking brakes...

Then you have the fact that 90+% of your braking is done with the front brakes... I seriously doubt he'll notice any improvement assuming his previous brakes were in good condition.

But I digress, they do look better behind an nice rim, than a drum does. As far as front brakes go, they are a better option.

*note: I'm not taking into the realm of high end sports cars.
I guess you've never had drum brakes overheat on you before...
My Jeep Liberty had rear drums, my moms had discs all around. I could overheat the rear brakes and they would not slow the car at all after about 4 hard stops. Drums suck the biggest cock this world has ever seen.
And while they may not do much work, it's enough to notice when you are trying to stop quickly, and not having any brakes at the back adds several seconds to stop times.
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Old May 5, 2009, 01:47 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by thedoug View Post
I can tell a difference in my car's braking. it stops faster with the same amount of pedal travel that I used on the drums.
The drums weren't very effective after I upgraded the front calipers to dual piston ones from an 04 mustang gt. the car nose dived during braking but now it doesn't do it nearly as much as it did with drums. the drums also made a kind of clicking sound during semi-hard braking which i imagine was the shoes shifting around on the springs.
my car stops a lot better now.
drums suck.
That clicking was from them trying to adjust to the wear. When was the last time you had the brake shoes replaced? When was the last time u had the drums checked for wear? Most drums can auto-adjust within reason... Btw did you ever change out the proportioning valve? The front dive can be caused by the change in pressure required for the brakes. You are changing the braking systems for example the dual piston setup, which bites harder, while using a proportioning valve designed for single piston fronts and drums on the back.

I've pulled apart proportioning valves for my car with with 4 wheel disc, and the rear drum setup. Most of the insides were the same except for a few key parts, namely the spring strength and the diameter of the ports in the in the pistons. The pistons in the 4 wheel disc car had wear because they were moving, softer/shorter spring and smaller ports. This is to control and limit the actual amount of pressure that can be applied to the rears, to lock the fronts because of the higher pressure required to lock the rear drums.

Checking around, drum brakes clicking = worn out.

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Originally Posted by AluminumHaste View Post
I guess you've never had drum brakes overheat on you before...
My Jeep Liberty had rear drums, my moms had discs all around. I could overheat the rear brakes and they would not slow the car at all after about 4 hard stops. Drums suck the biggest cock this world has ever seen.
And while they may not do much work, it's enough to notice when you are trying to stop quickly, and not having any brakes at the back adds several seconds to stop times.
Driven lots of vehicles with drums and discs. ****ty brakes are ****ty ****ty brakes. I've seen Semi tractors ride their drums hard on and off in stop and go traffic, and I've seen many vehicles with under specified brakes to save a buck. I've had disc brakes overheat and fail to provide sufficient braking power, worst yet, those same discs warped due to the overheating and had to be replaced... I'm shocked that Jeep uses such drums that can so easily overheat... Honest here, that sucks.

Besides that most braking systems are designed to prevent the rear brakes from locking up, instead to allow them to drag to prevent you from having a complete loss of control under a full lock braking situation. So the drums should be designed to be able to handle the heat load from driving around in downtown traffic. I'd be a little suspicious if it wasn't your front brakes loosing their ability to stop your SUV since the drums shouldn't even heat up that much if your hammering the brake peddle to the floor doing a "hard" stop.

Anyways to summarize all of this...

Drum brakes = Fine as long as they are maintained properly, used in a properly designed system, and if that system has been modified it has been done so properly with changes effected to the entire system as is affected by the changes introduced...

I bolded and underlined a key aspect, proper, because even disc brakes will fail to do their job if they aren't maintained, designed poorly, or modified half-assed.
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Old May 5, 2009, 02:22 AM   #165
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I know exactly what you mean, drums are just as effecient and can stop as well as disc brakes and are on par with brake fade. I mean hell, if all the top tier car manufacturers use them on their sportscars...they are indeed good enough. Take a look at what types of brakes are on Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Porsche's, etc. Also look at the braking systems used in all the racing classes.


Err, wait a minute...



Drum brakes can't transfer heat as well and are more prone to fail due to faster brake fade/overheating. They are used in todays cars due to cost savings. One of the cost savings is the parking brake, which just requires a lever on drum systems but requires an entire new mechanism for disc.

For a daily driven vehicle that only sees light duty, drums could be adequate for the average person...unless they live in an area that has a lot of long steep downgrades. For any application that requires the brakes to work continuously and reliably under consistent heavy braking, discs are better.
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Old May 5, 2009, 03:21 AM   #166
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I lived in BC, I learned to drive in the mountains... Steep grades are what I learned on, and I learned on both(4 wheel disc, and the rear drum). Ultra high end sports cars aren't in this equation, when money starts to be less of a factor, go on, go right ahead slap discs on the back.

In the mountains is where I had the front discs fail me, I had to grab the E-brake and lock the back tires up.

This is difficult to argue without getting into a pissing match at which is better.

So I will do my best to avoid it...

Drums are perfectly capable, and handle exceedingly large loads down steep inclines. Of course when it comes to semi tractors, the brakes have to be checked after really steep grades, to make sure the self adjusting mechanism isn't about to kick out.

To label drum brakes as the biggest pieces of crap in motoring is like pointing to the 19th century leaf springs in Corvettes and saying those are the biggest pieces of crap in motoring.



Discs are great, but to poo poo Drums as a blanket statement is just silly.
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Old May 5, 2009, 04:47 AM   #167
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Replaced the timing belt on my Sportage. Had to take off and replace a LOT of stuff to finally get to the belt. Surprisingly well made car for a cheapie.
The belt (been in for 105,000K) was stretched 1/2 a tooth but otherwise still in good condition, it pays to buy good quality ones for replacements.
Broke the plastic drain tap on my radiator in the first 5 minutes of the job! Car is all back together and started and ran OK for 20 seconds, but still waiting for a new drain tap for the radiator before I can fill up with coolant and drive her!
It will be nice to be able to rev it again without feeling guilty and apprehensive.

Next job is front ball joints on my wife's Pathfinder.
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Old May 5, 2009, 05:42 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post
That clicking was from them trying to adjust to the wear. When was the last time you had the brake shoes replaced? When was the last time u had the drums checked for wear? Most drums can auto-adjust within reason... Btw did you ever change out the proportioning valve? The front dive can be caused by the change in pressure required for the brakes. You are changing the braking systems for example the dual piston setup, which bites harder, while using a proportioning valve designed for single piston fronts and drums on the back.

I've pulled apart proportioning valves for my car with with 4 wheel disc, and the rear drum setup. Most of the insides were the same except for a few key parts, namely the spring strength and the diameter of the ports in the in the pistons. The pistons in the 4 wheel disc car had wear because they were moving, softer/shorter spring and smaller ports. This is to control and limit the actual amount of pressure that can be applied to the rears, to lock the fronts because of the higher pressure required to lock the rear drums.

Checking around, drum brakes clicking = worn out.



Driven lots of vehicles with drums and discs. ****ty brakes are ****ty ****ty brakes. I've seen Semi tractors ride their drums hard on and off in stop and go traffic, and I've seen many vehicles with under specified brakes to save a buck. I've had disc brakes overheat and fail to provide sufficient braking power, worst yet, those same discs warped due to the overheating and had to be replaced... I'm shocked that Jeep uses such drums that can so easily overheat... Honest here, that sucks.

Besides that most braking systems are designed to prevent the rear brakes from locking up, instead to allow them to drag to prevent you from having a complete loss of control under a full lock braking situation. So the drums should be designed to be able to handle the heat load from driving around in downtown traffic. I'd be a little suspicious if it wasn't your front brakes loosing their ability to stop your SUV since the drums shouldn't even heat up that much if your hammering the brake peddle to the floor doing a "hard" stop.

Anyways to summarize all of this...

Drum brakes = Fine as long as they are maintained properly, used in a properly designed system, and if that system has been modified it has been done so properly with changes effected to the entire system as is affected by the changes introduced...

I bolded and underlined a key aspect, proper, because even disc brakes will fail to do their job if they aren't maintained, designed poorly, or modified half-assed.
the drums were fine, replaced the drums, shoes, springs, self adjuster, and wheel cylinders about 3k miles prior to removing them.
they were adjusting fine as the drum was difficult to pull off.
i can take a picture of the inside of the drum if you want. it looks almost brand new.
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Old May 5, 2009, 10:46 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefoo21 View Post


I lived in BC, I learned to drive in the mountains... Steep grades are what I learned on, and I learned on both(4 wheel disc, and the rear drum). Ultra high end sports cars aren't in this equation, when money starts to be less of a factor, go on, go right ahead slap discs on the back.

In the mountains is where I had the front discs fail me, I had to grab the E-brake and lock the back tires up.

This is difficult to argue without getting into a pissing match at which is better.

So I will do my best to avoid it...

Drums are perfectly capable, and handle exceedingly large loads down steep inclines. Of course when it comes to semi tractors, the brakes have to be checked after really steep grades, to make sure the self adjusting mechanism isn't about to kick out.

To label drum brakes as the biggest pieces of crap in motoring is like pointing to the 19th century leaf springs in Corvettes and saying those are the biggest pieces of crap in motoring.



Discs are great, but to poo poo Drums as a blanket statement is just silly.
I didn't say they were worthless or the biggest piece of crap in motoring. I simply said they are not as good as disc brakes, and that's a fact. It doesn't matter what personal experience you toss at us, the plain and simple truth is that they don't deal with the heat as well. That's why they aren't used as much any more, period. Disc brakes can fail too, never said they couldn't. It's just that drum brakes are more prone to failure once again, under consistent heavy braking where heat is brought on for extended periods.

There is a reason the entire automotive industry moved to disc brakes, and it isn't because "money is no object so just toss the expensive crap on there". I mean seriously, come on now...

They are only used today for the auto industry to save a buck on the rear brakes. Why in the world do you think all US cars are built with disc front brakes where most of the work is done?

There is no argument, there is no pissing match...drum brakes are just not as good. There is nothing to argue.
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Old May 5, 2009, 10:54 AM   #170
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Well I am looking forward to installing my new component speakers in the front and rear. They should come in today. Unfortunately it's a nasty, drizzly day.

I could work in the garage, but it's pretty tight in there. I guess I could pull the truck out and pull up in the middle... We'll see. I don't even know if I have the right drill tools to cut out spaces for the tweeters.
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Old May 5, 2009, 10:55 AM   #171
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Car is so much quieter now. That damn waterpump with ****ty bearings was loud as hell chattering under the hood.

All I have no is some nasty valve tap. Shoulda adjusted the valves while I was in there.

New timing belt is great feel a little more secure.
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Old May 5, 2009, 02:17 PM   #172
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I didn't say they were worthless or the biggest piece of crap in motoring. I simply said they are not as good as disc brakes, and that's a fact. It doesn't matter what personal experience you toss at us, the plain and simple truth is that they don't deal with the heat as well. That's why they aren't used as much any more, period. Disc brakes can fail too, never said they couldn't. It's just that drum brakes are more prone to failure once again, under consistent heavy braking where heat is brought on for extended periods.

There is a reason the entire automotive industry moved to disc brakes, and it isn't because "money is no object so just toss the expensive crap on there". I mean seriously, come on now...

They are only used today for the auto industry to save a buck on the rear brakes. Why in the world do you think all US cars are built with disc front brakes where most of the work is done?

There is no argument, there is no pissing match...drum brakes are just not as good. There is nothing to argue.
I said I was trying to avoid that pissing match, because it would just distract from the main argument, perhaps I should have elaborated upon that detail.

Anyways...

Drum brakes can take a huge load. Discs have directional stability.

Discs tend to suffer more from their pads over heating. Drums suffer from their drums overheating.

Drums are the king of lock up, Discs excel at thresh-hold breaking.

Different techs different strengths and weaknesses, better for some things, better for others.

Personally, I switched my car over to 4 wheel discs. It gives me nothing, except for a better look behind the rims. That and I really like the parking brake system they have implemented on my car. It's rather ingenious when you pull the ebrake a center screw turns and pushes outward which the piston has the female threads is twisted and pushed outward to lock up the rear tires. No extra drum brakes to worry about. Though it does make the calipers rediculously complicated in comparison to the old drums.
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Heatware

Last edited by gamefoo21 : May 5, 2009 at 02:27 PM.
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:26 PM   #173
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Taken with my Blackberry Curve.

Before:


After:


The sun glare was the expensive part.
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Old May 21, 2009, 05:33 PM   #174
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I've been making shiny bits again



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Old May 21, 2009, 06:54 PM   #175
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I recharged my Air Conditioner.
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Old May 21, 2009, 08:51 PM   #176
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Didn't do much to mine, however we did buy another one(91' 318iS) for $500.



It wasn't running when we bought it though.

Total cost to get it running:
$0

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Old May 21, 2009, 09:54 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoug View Post
I recharged my Air Conditioner.
I wish I could do that but it'll just run out some time because it leaked out in the first place. Never got around to getting a price to fix it.

Last thing I did was put my damn gas cap back together. I turned into a lot the other day and hear a loud clunk/bang and wondered what the hell it was, and then a few days later when I popped my gas lid to fill up, the cap just shot out. Damn thing flew apart inside somehow and was making my check engine light come on, but I stuck it back together and it works fine now.


EDIT: Ok, it wasn't the cap that made the engine light come on. Hooray, now I get to figure that out.
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Lose = Be careful not to lose that.
Loose = The bolts are loose.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
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Last edited by ice : May 22, 2009 at 08:38 AM.
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Old May 22, 2009, 05:40 PM   #178
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Got my right rear bearing replaced, it was making a vibration type sound before

Car runs great now
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Old May 23, 2009, 08:20 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice View Post
snip...

EDIT: Ok, it wasn't the cap that made the engine light come on. Hooray, now I get to figure that out.
what is the error code?
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Old May 24, 2009, 01:59 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoug View Post
what is the error code?
Eh, I don't know, I didn't get far enough to even find out I'd have to take it to the auto store to get a readout unless I have an analog voltmeter somewhere, but I don't think I do. Either that or I think I read something about using the malfunction light and jumping between the self test connector and signal wire.

It only comes on for 10-15 minutes while I drive and then goes away, or if I shut the car off and start it back up it stays off. Probably just some stupid thing.
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Lose = Be careful not to lose that.
Loose = The bolts are loose.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.
Two = 2.
Your = Your dinner is ready.
You're = If you're 150lbs you'd better have a 6 pack.

Last edited by ice : May 24, 2009 at 02:01 AM.
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