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Old May 23, 2003, 01:35 AM   #211
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Visine
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Default heh

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Old May 23, 2003, 01:44 AM   #212
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Default over my head

I would like to get someone's comments on the following statement, some of you may have seen this posted at madonion. First a few of my ramblingss....

If from his comments, the nvidia card has so many more features, why does the ATI cards show it so much better. Thats the million doller question though, nvidias marketing spin that there cards are so much better, and ATI does such a great job in the real world against them, this just proves it as far as I am concerned.

The thing I find humorus is that no one has a screenshot over at madonion of Dawn on a Geforce. Either no one has a Geforce FX, or there embarrased to post it for comparison.

spellbinder? digitalwanderer? humus?.....

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"Well, no one here as ever programmed nothing in GL, right?

First, I think it it more than obvious, from the images shown, that the GL wrapper is cutting her air. There is obviously less polygons there. The wrapper is cutting down what the exec is sending.


In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creates higher quality images than the original due to the normalization being done in a fragment program (dp3/rsq/mul) instead of in a normalization cubemap which the FX extensions does directly in hardware

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is sweet because it is impossible to do from a driver/wrapper point of view. They would have to parse the entire NV_fragment_program in order to check if it was accessing a cube map, and then replace that with math instruction to normalize the vector. Althought they may know what texture unit is enabled with a cubemap it is impossible to detect that from a fragment program.

Another thing is the amount of texture units. The FX has 16 image units available that the Radeon doesn't. If the demo is using all of the 16 units, the Radeon would have to do more passes over the geometry. Another thing is fragment program max instruction count that is very low in the Radeon than in the FX. And if Carmack has hit the limit, the Dawn demo would surelly pass it.

And NV_fragment_program has some instruction that are not possible with ARB_fragment_program, so I would like to know how did they emulated that

Another thing is that the Radeon only has 24bit precision per instruction, while the FX is using the full 32 bit precision. Fragment image quality in the Radeon is less than in the FX no matter what. AF and AA is another issue.

It is possible to emulate 80% of the total work that the FX does when running the Dawn demo with a GL wrapper.

Don't think that what you see it the true Dawn "

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...&fpart=15&vc=1

Last edited by Dspiral : May 23, 2003 at 01:48 AM.
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Old May 23, 2003, 01:54 AM   #213
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Default Re: over my head

Quote:
Originally posted by Dspiral
I would like to get someone's comments on the following statement, some of you may have seen this posted at madonion. First a few of my ramblingss....

If from his comments, the nvidia card has so many more features, why does the ATI cards show it so much better. Thats the million doller question though, nvidias marketing spin that there cards are so much better, and ATI does such a great job in the real world against them, this just proves it as far as I am concerned.

The thing I find humorus is that no one has a screenshot over at madonion of Dawn on a Geforce. Either no one has a Geforce FX, or there embarrased to post it for comparison.

spellbinder? digitalwanderer? humus?.....

________________________________________________


"Well, no one here as ever programmed nothing in GL, right?

First, I think it it more than obvious, from the images shown, that the GL wrapper is cutting her air. There is obviously less polygons there. The wrapper is cutting down what the exec is sending.


In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creates higher quality images than the original due to the normalization being done in a fragment program (dp3/rsq/mul) instead of in a normalization cubemap which the FX extensions does directly in hardware

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is sweet because it is impossible to do from a driver/wrapper point of view. They would have to parse the entire NV_fragment_program in order to check if it was accessing a cube map, and then replace that with math instruction to normalize the vector. Althought they may know what texture unit is enabled with a cubemap it is impossible to detect that from a fragment program.

Another thing is the amount of texture units. The FX has 16 image units available that the Radeon doesn't. If the demo is using all of the 16 units, the Radeon would have to do more passes over the geometry. Another thing is fragment program max instruction count that is very low in the Radeon than in the FX. And if Carmack has hit the limit, the Dawn demo would surelly pass it.

And NV_fragment_program has some instruction that are not possible with ARB_fragment_program, so I would like to know how did they emulated that

Another thing is that the Radeon only has 24bit precision per instruction, while the FX is using the full 32 bit precision. Fragment image quality in the Radeon is less than in the FX no matter what. AF and AA is another issue.

It is possible to emulate 80% of the total work that the FX does when running the Dawn demo with a GL wrapper.

Don't think that what you see it the true Dawn "

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...&fpart=15&vc=1
is this so hard to grasp the reason the ati cards can render it is because of the lower precision 16/12fp bit color that nvidia has been using for thier cards to get the speed up. Why do you think they are not microsoft certified? Because they dont meet minimum dx9 specs. Everybody that really knows anything about these cards has been saying this for how long now?
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Old May 23, 2003, 02:09 AM   #214
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Default Re: heh

Quote:
Originally posted by Visine
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Old May 23, 2003, 02:10 AM   #215
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lol nice one
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Old May 23, 2003, 02:36 AM   #216
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I think that Rachel is nice, too:



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Old May 23, 2003, 02:42 AM   #217
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Default Re: over my head

Quote:
Originally posted by Dspiral
I would like to get someone's comments on the following statement, some of you may have seen this posted at madonion. First a few of my ramblingss....

If from his comments, the nvidia card has so many more features, why does the ATI cards show it so much better. Thats the million doller question though, nvidias marketing spin that there cards are so much better, and ATI does such a great job in the real world against them, this just proves it as far as I am concerned.

The thing I find humorus is that no one has a screenshot over at madonion of Dawn on a Geforce. Either no one has a Geforce FX, or there embarrased to post it for comparison.

spellbinder? digitalwanderer? humus?.....

________________________________________________


"Well, no one here as ever programmed nothing in GL, right?

First, I think it it more than obvious, from the images shown, that the GL wrapper is cutting her air. There is obviously less polygons there. The wrapper is cutting down what the exec is sending.


In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creates higher quality images than the original due to the normalization being done in a fragment program (dp3/rsq/mul) instead of in a normalization cubemap which the FX extensions does directly in hardware

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is sweet because it is impossible to do from a driver/wrapper point of view. They would have to parse the entire NV_fragment_program in order to check if it was accessing a cube map, and then replace that with math instruction to normalize the vector. Althought they may know what texture unit is enabled with a cubemap it is impossible to detect that from a fragment program.

Another thing is the amount of texture units. The FX has 16 image units available that the Radeon doesn't. If the demo is using all of the 16 units, the Radeon would have to do more passes over the geometry. Another thing is fragment program max instruction count that is very low in the Radeon than in the FX. And if Carmack has hit the limit, the Dawn demo would surelly pass it.

And NV_fragment_program has some instruction that are not possible with ARB_fragment_program, so I would like to know how did they emulated that

Another thing is that the Radeon only has 24bit precision per instruction, while the FX is using the full 32 bit precision. Fragment image quality in the Radeon is less than in the FX no matter what. AF and AA is another issue.

It is possible to emulate 80% of the total work that the FX does when running the Dawn demo with a GL wrapper.

Don't think that what you see it the true Dawn "

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...&fpart=15&vc=1
LOL this guy is to funny he obviously has no clue.

16 Image units that's new he probably mean be able to do 16textures/pass but every dx9 card can do that because it's the min. ps2.0 spec.

about the precision:
If you take look at the dawn shaders then you will notice that the most shader instruction are [H] and [X] marked what means they are computed either with 16bit fp(H) or 12bit fixed(X) precision hence lower than the min. r300 shader precision(24bit fp).

Last edited by tEd : May 23, 2003 at 02:44 AM.
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Old May 23, 2003, 03:00 AM   #218
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Default AllRIGHT!

OOOOOOOOOohohohoho, I'd forgotten all about the OTHER ATi demos - ! Oh baby
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Old May 23, 2003, 03:02 AM   #219
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Default

damn never knew ATI had that , it looks nice and more realistic then dawn , but i like dawn since shes sexy and we can see her body , but yeah the screenshots people have posted of dawn are 10 times better looking then the ones ive seen fx users post its also faster . This should send chills throughout the nvidia community , and it already has , i have already seen many funny posts throughout the internet.

insert nazi laugh (here)

Last edited by Tork64 : May 23, 2003 at 03:07 AM.
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Old May 23, 2003, 03:18 AM   #220
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Default

A snapshot off 8500 demo, nature.

Get your demos here folks, a trip down memory lane with 6xAA and 16xAF ;>

openGL, could you post some links off nVidia GforceFX rendering Dawn snapshots ?
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Old May 23, 2003, 04:08 AM   #221
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Guys we are like a bunch of school boys thats just seen his first piece of puntang

But really someone needs to make a little video of this running on an ATI card.
And then send it to the big wigs over at nVidia
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Old May 23, 2003, 04:20 AM   #222
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working with tbirds yet?
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Old May 23, 2003, 04:41 AM   #223
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Anyone else useing a 9500 Pro to run the dawn demo? After I went in and changed the screen rez from 1024x768 to 1280x1024 (What I play all of my games at) I started getting memory artifacs in her wings look at the pic. I didnt have them at 1024x768. Is it just to much for my little 9500 Pro at 1280x1024?



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Old May 23, 2003, 04:42 AM   #224
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Tried Dawn on WinME, no go.

This is the first demo I know of that doesn't run on Win9x systems, I wonder what nVidia does that requires 2k/XP.

Anyway, seems like crappy programming to me if the demo doesn't check Windows version and availability of SSE instructions and just crashes...
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Old May 23, 2003, 04:59 AM   #225
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no problems here on my 9500 pro.

1280*1024*32 with 4x AA and 16x AF.

optimal quality settings





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Old May 23, 2003, 05:09 AM   #226
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Nothing to see here folks.
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Old May 23, 2003, 05:15 AM   #227
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btw..i installed 3.4 drivers..morrowind runs like crap now, but now have nekkid dawn heh.
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Old May 23, 2003, 05:57 AM   #228
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Looks great on my 9500Pro, no problems at all
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Old May 23, 2003, 06:00 AM   #229
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hm, on my 9500pro with Cat3.4 it doesn't work...

I just get the loading screen but after a second or two it just disappears and nothing happens...
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Old May 23, 2003, 06:08 AM   #230
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Im on a 9500pro with win xp and omega 3.4's and I get the black fairy bug. Everything except the background is black! wtf?!
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Old May 23, 2003, 06:38 AM   #231
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in the readme it says you need 512mb ram for high resolutions.
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Old May 23, 2003, 06:45 AM   #232
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No problems here on a 9500 pro

4aa 16at
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Old May 23, 2003, 07:07 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by canberraKarter
in the readme it says you need 512mb ram for high resolutions.
If you are talking to me, I have 512mb of ram and have tried running it at 800x600 windowed. Still same black fairy. Not cool.
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Old May 23, 2003, 07:09 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anemotion
No problems here on a 9500 pro

4aa 16at
Mmmm maybe my card is on its last leggs

Thats ok Getting a 9800 Pro in July
I'll keep the ol 9500 as a back up
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Old May 23, 2003, 07:16 AM   #235
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Dawn won't run for me, same crash as the other Thunderbird guys. I hope it's a problem in the wrapper rather than the demos - has anyone actually tried to run Dawn on a Thunderbird using a GeForce FX?

However this wrapper does allow the Tidepool, Wolfman and Zoltar demos to run! Although they don't render properly at all. Some of the vertex shaders don't seem to work, and the texturing and lighting is totally crazy. Hopefully with some work this will work for all Nvidia demos.
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Old May 23, 2003, 07:57 AM   #236
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Works great here.
Winxp, Piv clocked @2.3ghz 1024mb ram

Radeon 9500 @9700pro speeds, Catalyst 3.4 (with W1zzards softmod).

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Old May 23, 2003, 08:13 AM   #237
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has anyone run this using the cat 3.1's?
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Old May 23, 2003, 11:16 AM   #238
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Quote:
btw..i installed 3.4 drivers..morrowind runs like crap now, but now have nekkid dawn heh.
Weird, I'v gone 3.4 and didn't notice any change with morrowind. A little better if anything.

T.
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Old May 23, 2003, 12:06 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by xm0de
has anyone run this using the cat 3.1's?
They require the 3.4s

It's surprising how many people have T-birds and R3X0 cards. Time for an upgrade methinks. Win9x too.......Maybe dawn will push them over the edge.

BTW, how come so many people are posting screenshots of the non-ultra version??? It looks like crap.

Is it just me or did nVidia change the Dawn demo sometime today? Filemirrors shows the file as being updated today.
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Old May 23, 2003, 12:30 PM   #240
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Quote:
It's surprising how many people have T-birds and R3X0 cards. Time for an upgrade methinks. Win9x too.......Maybe dawn will push them over the edge.

I don´t think so... for example the "old" 1.4 Ghz T-bird with 266 mhz bus reaches the same, exactly the same performance than the XP 1700+. Compare clock to clock.
And the Athlon XP 2000 + runs at 1667 Mhz... not a big difference.

T-Bird core is almost the same core than the Xp's one (Palomino & early Thoroughbreds). It requires more watts and its hotter than these ones. That's the main difference.

Anyway...owners of these micro like me, need to wait (i hope) for a fix for this wrapper

Bye!
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